Mormon Coffee

Beautiful Nauvoo: Where Joseph Smith is the Superstar and Accurate Information is Suppressed

August 10, 2007

By Aaron Shafovaloff

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Comments2007-08-10+06%3A30%3A17Aaron+Shafovaloff

Eileen on August 10th, 2007

If this was the true church of Christ, they the Mormons would not be afraid of any litature for or against the Mormon church. It just shows in the film how weak there god is and that their jesus is not the Jesus of the bible. My heart breaks for these poor people!
Geoff J on August 10th, 2007

So Aaron,

If you were a Mormon and in charge of the messaging at Nauvoo and the Carthage jail, what would you do differently?
amanda on August 10th, 2007

i suppose the jesus we believe in is the jesus of nazareth that just unfortunately had the same name as another jesus of nazareth who died on the cross in the meridian of time…wow, what a coincidence. and the jesus of the book of mormon was just a jesus that joseph smith made up in order to persuade his followers that there was a jesus who died for our sins. yeah, i’m pretty sure satan was helping joseph smith deceive many into believing there was a Jesus who atoned for our sins.

you’re going to have to come up with a better explanation than this to assert mormons aren’t christian—because this one just makes you look really dumb.
Todd Wood on August 10th, 2007

I have been to both places, Geoff.

If were a sincere, devout Mormon, I would first go to the General Authorities. Passionate for truth, I would persistently desire audience with one of the twelve, even more so with one of the First Presidency.

In this private setting, I would start asking questions that deeply trouble me.

Afterward, knowing my leaders’ minds on the matter, I would pray, asking God to give me integrity, whether to submit to the common consent or whether to kindly and respectfully alert authorities that I can no longer be in “charge of the messaging at Nauvoo and the Carthage jail.”
amanda on August 10th, 2007

haha, i watched the film where a gentleman was asking a tour guide at carthage jail what the reason was for joseph smith’s incarceration..and he was confused as to why there was no reason she gave…insinuating that the church was trying to make joseph look better.. THERE WAS NO REASON JOSEPH SMITH WAS INCARCERATED!!! that is why he became a martyr at that very point in time. why can’t these [filtered profanity or slur] evangelicals finally admit that joseph smith died because of his beliefs…and they shouldn’t find it too difficult to believe since they seem to fall under the same category as these early persecutors of the lds church.
Falcon on August 10th, 2007

Geoff,
Are you kidding me. If I were a Mormon I’d do everything I could to hide the early history of the Mormon church and the personal history of it’s founder. I’d make it so slick Hollywood would come calling. How else are you going to suck anyone else in? Mormons can’t afford to tell it straight. Would you recount how the great interpreter of ancient texts wrote the Book of Abraham? How about listing the women he was sealed to, their marital status and age at the time of the sealing? We could always talk about his magic seer stone? I know, give them all a copy of “No Man Knows My History” by Fawn Bodie. Better yet develop a play production based on her book. I don’t think so. I believe they’ll stay with the new and improved version. The children must never know!
Geoff J on August 10th, 2007

Falcon,

That sounds about right. Evangelicals paint themselves in the best light just like Mormons do. So we are the same in that way.

[Section deleted.. Stay on topic]
Nancy on August 10th, 2007

So, what exactly did the video not tell the truth about? We need to know what has been lied about?
Falcon on August 10th, 2007

Amanda,
Joseph Smith was in jail for trashing the printing press of an exmember who printed the truth about the prophet and all of his lady friends. Stupid exmembers! Why don’t they leave you guys alone. There’s a perfectly good reason why Joseph Smith was hitting on all of the ladies. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh….the children might hear.
jeff on August 10th, 2007

Amanda, I would like to some some referenced material from you as I don’t think you’ve done much study as far as the history of the church goes… Falcon is correct about JS trashing the paper and thats why he was in jail, just look it up. [Section deleted as part of cleanup.]
Geoff J on August 10th, 2007

rick b: If you have nothing to fear, why are your bothering speaking here at all?

Because it is sort of fun to defend Jesus and his church sometimes. But I will likely bore of it soon if that makes you feel better.

We of course welcome investigation of Mormonism. It leads to hundreds of thousands of new coverts every year. Investigating the church is a far cry from obsessing over it like some “anti Mormonism” zealots do though. Creating blogs and ministries focused on attacking Mormonism? Come on, you have to admit that it is just weird. There have to be better hobbies in this world… how about focusing on preaching the benefits of your own religion or something?
Nancy on August 10th, 2007

Amanda,
The person you said “trashed the printing” press was William Law who was 2nd in line in the mormon church. 2nd only to Joseph Smith. He left the church when he found out Joseph had married polygamously and Polyandrously. Big words but go look them up. Joseph Smith was marrying teenagers and women who were already married to other men. Some of those men were in good standing with the church. Before spouting how anti mormon we are go find the facts. You can find them in your own history.
Burt T. on August 10th, 2007

Rick B.,

You ask why not let us simply investigate the LDS Church without a problem. Rick, please do. Investigate all you want. However, I have a problem with you using the term “investigate.” To investigate would mean that you (and others – not to single you out) are being fair and honest in your research and how you report your research about the LDS Church. This is also the problem I have will Bill and Aaron blasting the people in Nauvoo for not telling every detail. They ask why so much is hidden? Why are there so many secrets? I would ask them the same questions about their website.

Why is there so much information about the Mountain Meadows Masacre, but information on the Haun’s Mill Masacre only discusses how the LDS brought it on themselves?

There are many accounts of Joseph Smith healing the sick. I typed “healing the sick” into the search and found, Bill criticizing some guy named “Mike” for trusting Mormon accounts of these healings. Apparently if “Mike” couldn’t back it up with some Non-Mormon sources, it must not be true. Interesting stand since numerous arguments against the LDS Church on this website are based solely on Non-LDS sources. In addition, my search linked me to the “Jesus Christ / Joseph Smith” DVD. This DVD kindly remarked on Joseph’s “supposed” healings by saying, “Although this film is very emotional and inspiring it has no more reality to it than any other fictional story created by Hollywood.” Really, where are the sources to back this claim up? Did the makers of the film come across any LDS sources who denied that Joseph Smith had healed the sick? According to Bill’s logic, they should have.

So, don’t take the moral high ground and act like all you [filtered profanity or slur]’s are doing is investigating the religion. Why does MRM have so much to hide about the LDS Church?
jeff on August 10th, 2007

Let’s be honest. We wouldn’t be trying to help defend the souls of humankind from lies, if the thing that, what we see, opposes God and his gospel, isn’t a force to be reckoned with. Your church does convert massive amounts to people and you see that as good. But from our point of view, you are deceiving these people and lying to them. One of the best ways to have anyone follow you in a lost world is to make them feel like you have all the answers. It’s just unfortunate that some don’t look deeper into your religion than what you guys throw up in the front. That is why I’m saddened when I hear one of the new LDS advertisements of “the answers to many of life’s great questions are finally answered.” I do think it helps people to have direction in their life, but to provide an answer that we see as “made up” or “false” poses very serious consequences…

Here’s an analogy. Lets say you own a garden that produces wonderful fruit. Then, some insect infestation occurs changing the fruit from wonderful to awful. Thats the way I think we see Mormonism. Joseph Smith came and perverted the Gospel with lies, keeping people from knowing the true Jesus Christ… (Now, just to humor you, the LDS can and have said the exact same thing. That all the evangelicals and religions of the day up until Mormonism have perverted the good fruit of the Garden, or the Gospel.)… So do we just ignore the insects and continue to try and grow good fruit? Or do you create a pesticide and fight off the invasion so the fruit can grow the way it should in God’s eyes… What is our pesticide? Well, one form of it is this blog.. What is your pesticide? the supposed “restored Gospel”, or the mere fact that the LDS church has been built and/grown.

Hope that makes sense.
amanda on August 10th, 2007

JEFF SAYS:
“Either what we were told was a lie and we aren’t really Christians (believers in the true Christ) or you were told a lie and you aren’t really Christians.”

as far as i know, it is you calling me a non-christian, i NEVER called you a non-christian. i don’t believe what you are told about Christ is a lie, but i do believe there is more to His purpose than you now presently believe. i would never dare tell anyone whether they are a true Christian or not. and i think it’s ridiculous that you seem to think YOU are qualified.

by the way, it doesn’t say anything in the book of mormon (or bible for that matter) about Jesus being green, and having lots of wives…i’m not aware of any text that asserts anything that ridiculous…now if you are attempting to make a point that my jesus is THAT different from yours, i challenge you to study a little more about the role Christ plays in “mormonism”.

-he came here to this earth to save us from our sins
-i atoned not only for our sins but for our trials and our pain
-he loves me as much as he loves you
-he has restored His keys to this earth once again so that evangelicals like yourself can have even more blessings than you now are aware of.

let’s get serious here…your mental exercise was a waste of time. and you’ll never get those 2 minutes back.
amanda on August 10th, 2007

****HE atoned not only for our sins but for our trials and our pain

TYPO
jeff on August 10th, 2007

Alright Amanda, lets get down to the definition of a Christian. If we hold to the same definition, we will be able to figure out who is considered Christian and who isn’t. There are a few different definition on Merriam Webster, but lets go with number one, and I think we can both agree upon it.

Christian
1) “one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ”

Agree? yes or no.

I profess a belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ. I believe his only teachings are found in the Holy Bible, not in ANY other book.

You profess a belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ. You believe his teachings are found in the Holy Bible, BoM, D&C, and Pearl of Great price.. Is this correct?

Now, does the Bible teach the same Gospel as the BoM, D&C, Pearl of Great price?… No, and if you do your research, the differences are astounding, especially in doctrine. If you need examples, let me know, or you can save both me and you time looking them up on this site.

So your books and your Jesus teach a different Gospel. Yes there are simple similarity’s as you pointed out, but LDS Jesus and God’s word and what we view as the Christian Jesus and God’s word teach very different things.

Of course Jesus isn’t green, and AMANDA, tell me WHERE I stated that Jesus had many wives. Don’t make the grave mistake of altering my statements for your own benefit because when found out, it could make one look foolish. This was to show the difference and I hoped you would have caught onto that without having to say anything.

I’ve gone to the LDS church every Sunday for 3 years, don’t begin to think I haven’t studied on who your Jesus is.
jeff on August 10th, 2007

Sorry for back to back here MRM, I just wanted to close my argument here..This is my first time and last time I will do this, I promise..

The definition stated

Christian
1) “one who professes belief in the TEACHINGS of Jesus Christ”

One could also take out the word Teachings and just leave it as ..belief in Jesus Christ. If one of the teachings is “the dog is blue” and the other teaching is “the dog is is green” (and we are talking about the same dog, and the dog can’t be both colors only one, which one is right? Which teaching (gospel/doctrine) is right? If the dog is truthfully blue, then the green dog is false, its a false teaching, its made up..

So are you believing in the true teachings or the false teachings? You believe just as I do that the teachings you believe in are true, whoever is right makes that person Christian.

That is as simple as I can put it. I’m hoping you understand it. It’s completely logical and if you can argue with that, I would absolutely love to hear it.
Falcon on August 10th, 2007

Friends,
I will admit this, it takes a lot of faith to accept Mormonism. A guy takes a magic rock, throws it in the bottom of a hat, pulls the hat up around his face and BANG he’s got the interpretation of some gold plates that tells the history of a lost tribe of Jews who eventually become the American Indians. Forget DNA evidence, forget archeological evidence, forget the fact that what the guy teaches sounds like a combination of Christianity plus Greek and Roman mythology, it’s so fantastic it’s got to be true. I know because it makes me feel good when I think about it. Oh by the way, the doctrine contradicts totally Biblical Christianity. This is a no brainer. You go with the guy with the magic rock.
Geoff J on August 10th, 2007

Jeff: Tell me what part of the “underbelly” you find hideous, and why is it contradictory to God’s gospel

I’d like to explain it again here but Aaron asked me not to in the last thread. (I like Aaron so I’m trying to be a reasonably good guest here.) But see a couple of posts on the subject at my blog. Just click on my name above and see the posts I put up July 18, 2007 and July 22, 2007. (I tried linking to them but my comment got caught in moderation)

Hanging out here for the last few weeks has been educational for me.
Geoff J on August 10th, 2007

Falcon,

Your song idea was a valiant attempt at a snark but alas the idea was far better than the execution. I mean come on — you didn’t even bother rhyming! (And wasn’t that more like an uninspired limericks than a song?)

Your latest attempt at a snark is looking a bit pathetic though. Have you have run out useful things to say so now you are resorting to cheap potshots about modern miracles? If logic is what drives your faith in Christ how do you get past the theological numbers problem I keep bringing up? So far you seem to totally pretend it doesn’t exist. Is the evangelical club just lucky to be the only ones Jesus will love after this life?
jeff on August 10th, 2007

Thanks for the link Geoff, I shall do some reading!
Falcon on August 10th, 2007

Geoff,
I couldn’t help it. Your claim to have caught the 40 foot muskee was more then I could pass up (fish story Geoff).
I start with the basics. Your prophets are not prophets. Proven over and over again. And when you’re caught in it you just revert back to the old “Ev. Christianity wants to send everybody to hell” routine. I won’t dignify such an idiotic statement. It shows how little you know about the faith you reject for your “other gospel”. The very basis for your religion is bogus. It’s beyond Brothers Grimm.
Anubis on August 10th, 2007

HA HA! Here I am the Great ExMormon… Evil as they come. I am here to tell you the Mormon church is false. Just like the LDS missionaries did to my father about his religion. “all their creeds were an abomination in his sight” History of the Church, Vol. 1

I grew up Mormon. Born in the covenant, married in the temple (post 1990 and the temple changes), Mormon for 30 years. Yet I left to follow Jesus Christ. It would have been easier to stay LDS for my families sake.

Amanda you might want to check out some of these little flecks of history. Don’t worry this site weighs both sides and FARMS is at the bottom.

http://www.trialsofascension.net/mormon.html

I found the video funny especially at the end. Mormons so scared that they had little boys collecting the evil “Anti” documents (in reality just Mormon history).

Why would the truth need to be hidden?
Why would anyone trash a message unless they were scared of the outcome?

“They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie” 2Thess. 2:10b-11
Geoff J on August 10th, 2007

You’re welcome Jeff.

Falcon — You are really grasping at straws now amigo. If your only point left is “I don’t believe in Mormonism” then all I can respond with is “No duh”.

I do understand why you would rather not talk about evangelical theology though. I would want to avoid that subject if I were you too.
rick b on August 10th, 2007

Jeff and Amanda were speaking about the definition of a Christian, here is that covered on my blog.

http://mormonismreviewed.blogspot.com/2006/09/are-mormons-christians.html

Burt T said

To investigate would mean that you (and others – not to single you out) are being fair and honest in your research and how you report your research about the LDS Church. This is also the problem I have will Bill and Aaron blasting the people in Nauvoo for not telling every detail. They ask why so much is hidden? Why are there so many secrets? I would ask them the same questions about their website.

Burt, speaking only for myself, I am not part of MRM, I highly respect them and feel they are fair in their research, if you feel they are not, then you must take it up with them. As fas as my research goes and my blog goes, I only quote from sources I own, I scan the documents onto my blog for all to see that nothing is taken out of context, then here is a link for a topic on my blog, it shows every LDS source I own.

http://mormonismreviewed.blogspot.com/2006/06/my-lds-library.html

Dont try and tell me I am clueless about the LDS religion, many Non-christain posters here know far more than I do, but like I said, I only quote from sources I own and can back up. then on my blog I have had many LDS try and say I lied, when I scan the document to prove I did not, the LDS seem to dissaper. I am not perfect and get things wrong, but I honestly do my homework. Rick b
amanda on August 10th, 2007

Jeff, you were very kind to define the WORD Christian to me. and by this definition, one cannot rule either of us out.

“Christian
1) “one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ”

Agree? yes or no.”____i agree of course with this definition…you go on to say,

“I profess a belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ. I believe his only teachings are found in the Holy Bible, not in ANY other book.”

__i know you believe this, i’m not sure how it is relevant then to suggest that what i believe makes me non-Christian especially when i easily meet the requirements in webster’s dictionary (which was the Pandora’s box YOU opened)

that is your BELIEF, you CANNOT PROVE the book of mormon does not testify of this same Christ. and you go on to make connections based on your assumptions (beliefs as you call them)…so your conclusion is inherently flawed.

it is reasonable to disagree on what Christ’s teachings actually were, HOWEVER you make a grave mistake by suggesting i don’t believe in Him. that my friend, is just categorically untrue, and you know it.

so i challenge you to actually reference scriptures in the book of mormon about what Christ taught, and reference them with what Christ taught in the bible…and connect the dots..if you expect me to give your argument anymore attention.
jeff on August 10th, 2007

Amanda, I don’t know how to make it any more clear to you. You agreed with the definition which is good, but I don’t think you understand the difference between false made up “teachings” and 100% holy truth “teachings”.

I will try to make this analogy even more simple. The definition states one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ. Now, there are a ton of teachings of Jesus Christ, but lets just say that there is only one. (Here is your reference too) Lets just say the only thing taught by Jesus and the only that matters is the teaching that there is only one God.

“Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.” Isaiah 43:10
“I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.” Isaiah 44:6

And you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves–to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done–by going from a small degree to another, from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you are able to sit in glory as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. - Joseph Smith : King Follett Discourse. (Would quote more but that took up a lot of room)

So from my view. Jesus’ teachings are that there is only one God. That makes me Christian because I believe in a true teaching.

You on the other hand, being Mormon, must believe in the plurality of God’s. That NOT being a true teaching, but a false teaching, one that is made up. So you can’t claim you believe in his teachings when he didn’t even teach such a thing.

So either I’m wrong and the Bibles wrong about 1 God making me not a Christian because I don’t believe in the true teachings of Christ, or you aren’t believing in the true teachings of Jesus Christ, making you not Christian.

If you don’t get that, Amanda, I cant help you. It’s like saying “Hey Jesus, didn’t you say there were multiple God’s?” and Jesus saying “No, you got the wrong Jesus, I never said that.”
amanda on August 10th, 2007

RICK B, that’s a cop-out. your site is the one suggesting mormons aren’t Christian- so the burden of proof lies with you. but i’m not surprised- you are only proving all over again how inadequate your dismissal of my religion is.

and JEFF…i assure you that your analogy was clear, it was just dumb. you still haven’t given me references of your claim that i believe in a different Jesus. please don’t attempt to bore me with another essay of your BELIEFS, i’m fully aware of them–

let’s trim the fat folks.
jeff on August 10th, 2007

Amanda, my argument wasn’t about who Jesus is. It was about who, by definition is a Christian, and who isn’t. And I think I proved my point rather well. So now that that is clear in your head (hopefully) I will indulge you and explain how we have a different Jesus now (and I thought I already did well enough, but it takes a while for you to learn, thats cool). First, we must agree on what makes up a person. If you could, please list a few things in your mind that makes up a person, I will list some to maybe help you think of anything else you want to add.

What makes up a person that differentiates them from another: Their name, age, color, height, weight, family, knowledge, marital status, beliefs. Okay, that should be enough for now. Now do we have the same Jesus?

Name? Check. Age? Lol, dont know, I guess so, this hasn’t been important. Color? From the paintings I would say so. Height? same. Weight? Same. Family? No, Jesus Christ of Christianity has no brother. Mormon Jesus Christ has an actual brother, Lucifer. Also, Christian Jesus was begotten by the Holy Ghost. Mormon Jesus was begotten by Elohim. Christian Jesus’ father is the spirit in heaven. Mormon Jesus’ father was a man like we are and became exalted to Godhood. Knowledge? Christian Jesus knows of no other Gods. Mormon Jesus’ MUST know about the tons of other Gods, after all, heavenly father called a council of the Gods. Marital status? Christian Jesus has no wife spoken of. Mormon Jesus’, according to your prophets, must have a wife to have achieved the celestial kingdom. Beliefs? I covered this earlier with Christian Doctrine and Mormon Doctrine. So do we have the same Jesus still?

There could be another Jeff, 23 years old, white, 180 lbs, but if his father is not Donald, and his mother Kathy, his brother not Jason (not giving last name, obviously), then he is not me. Hope that makes sense. Christian Jesus and Mormon Jesus don’t even have the same family, let alone preach the same Gospel.

The end.
jeff on August 10th, 2007

MRM, I gave you a promise I wouldn’t do back to back, but I realize I could have just posted this and it would have sealed the deal with Amanda and mine’s debate. Give me a “gimme” on this one and I will appreciate it, if not I understand your rules and you can strike this out.

Amanda, heres the words from your own prophets mouth about our beliefs in two different Jesus Christ’s. You can choose to “follow the prophet” or have your own view on things, thats your decision.

“In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints ‘do not believe in the traditional Christ.’ ‘No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.’” (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p.7 )
amanda on August 10th, 2007

let me guess at your age jeff, 17? oh wait, there we go, you just mentioned it, 23..well it sounds like you just got home from your summer bible school and are reading off a paragraph out of a pamphlet you received whilst in attendance. you still do not reference any scriptures. it sounds like you are just spouting off stuff you’ve heard somewhere.

so you’ve attended a mormon church for the last 3 years, every sunday…wow that’s pretty good attendance even compared to active members of the church– are you sure you aren’t mormon? but seriously, i don’t think you’ve been listening.

but let’s say that you have been listening, so you still believe that i believe in a different Jesus…you still can’t prove it, you only have some kind of thought process you call logic that enables you to reach that conclusion. And i can’t enlighten you since you didn’t do the homework i assigned you before class–i could poke holes in your logic all day long, but it requires too much maintenance, by the time i’m done poking 50 holes in your last statement, you’d have come up with 100 more targets. who has that kind of time or patience.

but ok, let’s assume we have a different Jesus. Mine has a lot more to offer me than yours does.

i can live with my family for an eternity…He didn’t die just to save my spirit so that it could float around on a cloud in “heaven” with no purpose other than to just BE there.

i can continue to progress after the resurrection with a body of flesh and bone.

i can enjoy all that He has. so, if i had to pick my Jesus Christ over yours, it still makes me a CHRISTian because i believe in a CHRIST.

Moderators Note: I’d like to see us raise the bar on the conversation and cut back on the sarcasm. Let’s try to carry on the discussion with a higher level of respect for one another, okay?
Aaron Shafovaloff on August 10th, 2007

I cleaned up this discussion thread a bit by editing some comments (in red) and removing some altogether. I think all the regular commenters need to take a break for the weekend and let new commenters chime in (this is not a suggestion, I’ll be monitoring the post this weekend). Y’all are welcome to come back Monday, but when you do, stick to content directly relevant to the video.

If you were a Mormon and in charge of the messaging at Nauvoo and the Carthage jail, what would you do differently?

There were Mormons (RLDS members) who are in charge of places like Joseph Smith’s old residences and they did a wonderful job of giving well-rounded tours. They were refreshing! In Carthage I would at least mention up front the destruction of the Expositor, the guns, the masonic cry of distress, and alcohol.
David on August 12th, 2007

As the founder is so are its members. Joseph did not seem to handle the free exchange of info too well and neither does the current LDS membership. Calculated omissions are not good (which the MRM guys witnessed), but Joseph and the church issued a statement in 1835 decalaring that the Mormons do not practice polygamy when it was going on at that time. G. Hinkley outright lied on Larry King about the church’s teaching on men becoming gods. Hinckley is still the head of the church and it doesn’t surprise me that on his watch calculated omissions are going on at the Nauvoo Pagaent.
Anubis on August 13th, 2007

Amanda,
You surely do not understand the Mormon doctrine. Have you researched anything you have learned from Gospel Doctrine classes.

Jesus to Mormons is the spirit brother of Satan and Son of a man-God who lives on another planet by a star named Kolob. (See the Book of Abraham in the pearl of great price)The Mormon Jesus was unable to save men from there sins unless those men did everything they could first to save themselves. (See Mormon Doctrine) Then and only then would Christ step in and make up the difference. (At least that’s what they used to teach, it maybe different now!)

Jesus to Christians is the Son of the all powerful always existed Master creator of the universe. Jesus is not Satan’s (a fallen angel) brother. Jesus’s sacrifice on the cross was sufficient to save anyone who wants it. No works needed.

I’d say there is a difference wouldn’t you?

IF you think I am lying try asking an older member of you ward. I think you will find a wealth of information that is no longer taught.

Try this site for help http://www.mormondoctrine.net/

Anubis
rick b on August 13th, 2007

Anubis said

(At least that’s what they used to teach, it maybe different now!)

That would be funny, it it were not so sadly true. I have told many LDS that if JS and BY were alive today, they would not know Mormonism. It is so sanitized and changed so much, the Founders would be embarrassed. Rick b
Nancy on August 14th, 2007

Amanda,
You say “your Jesus has alot more to offer” by letting you have a body of flesh and bones, living with your family…etc. That is so egocentric…it’s all about you. The truth of the Gospel is it’s all about Jesus! The REAL reward is sitting at the feet of Christ and praising/worshipping Him forever. Not hanging out with family members.
You can call yourself whatever you want but if your beliefs don’t line up with the Holy Bible it means nothing.
Mike C. on August 16th, 2007

Make way for the newcomer.

Anyway, saw this video all the way through. Interesting approach to the history of the LDS Movement by the Nauvoo Pagaent.

Jeff, while it may not be my place to interject in the middle of a discussion, you are correct on a lot of things that separate Biblical Christianity from LDS Doctrine. And for clarification purposes, I found this link:

http://www.mrm.org/topics/introductory-issues/were-christians-just-you

I read it from beginning to end, and found that it really showed a separation of the two faiths. Remember, this is coming from a third party (i.e. neutral party).
Justin B on August 19th, 2007

The restored gospel??? What time was it restored from????? The Jews wrote the old testament so it is not their interpertation that makes them non-Mormons. Jesus was real quite in the new Testament about mormon doctrines. The book of mormon doesn’t teach mormonism either???? You know temple marriage, man become gods and other perversions. So when was this mormon gospel on earth??????? Restored from where?????? I’m so confused!!!!

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