Comments on: Mormons Don’t Necessarily Believe in Christ?

By: chuck5000

chuck5000 — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 17:55:11 +0000

Sharon, I think I can lend to clarifying the differences you do not understand about membership. Membership in the LDS Church is designated by those who have been baptized. You, as most Christians know, conversion is a process. It does happen instantly some times. Other times it’s a gradual “finding Christ” process one goes through. If someone is openly against the doctrines of Jesus Christ, then action is taken. But if someone is still “gaining” their testimony of His doctrines, they need time to grow and learn, “line upon line.”

Are you claiming to know everything there is to know about God and the doctrines of the Gospel? Are you saying that all members of your church believe it’s doctrine in the same way? If not, then why are you trying to hold the LDS church to a different standard?

Just for Quick, you said, “study groups are discouraged”. Actually, that is untrue. I attend a bible study once a month, on the first Thursday that is lead by Christians… not even members of the LDS Church. My bishop knows, my stake president knows. Not once have they suggested I stop. I also teach the Gospel Doctrine class at church every week. I lead the discussion is a better description as I encourage the wholse class to share their thoughts.

Micheal P., you reference to “seeker churches” is very interesting. Thanks for the honesty. This is exactly why when the LDS Missionaries teach the gospel, they keep it simple. Once you become a member, you dig deeper into the discussion of the gospel. So the only difference between Christians and the LDS church, is in the LDS Church, you can get both from the same church.

As for the topic of this post, Alma gives a clear example in Mosiah 26:
35 And whosoever repented of their sins and did confess them, them he did number among the people of the church;
36 And those that would not confess their sins and repent of their iniquity, the same were not numbered among the people of the church, and their names were blotted out.

By: falcon

falcon — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 02:18:38 +0000

I think our Mormon friends need to be careful when they start expounding on first century Christian history, practice and culture. These things are pretty easy to check out as to there accuracy. I see a lot of creativity and no citation of sources to substantiate claims. The practice of Mormons finding historic “facts” in revelation and confirmed by “spiritual feelings” lacks credibility. Way too many historic and spiritual urban legends that pass as fact among the Mormon faithful.

By: Michael P

Michael P — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 01:11:26 +0000

Jacob, you say this: “We still have the same believes of where we came from”. So we came from Adam as our God?

By: Jacob5

Jacob5 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 23:38:49 +0000

And that when we do evil, we must repent of it. And, after this life is over, all will receive resurrected bodies that will no longer suffer the pains and sorrows of mortality. We will also be judged of our thoughts (Christ also did mention that for a person to lust in his heart was also sinning) and deeds. Those sins we have truly repented of were to be erased from the book of life.
We still teach that we do have a prophet to lead us, just as before. We have scriptures to show us the lives of those who have witness the greatness of God and the wickedness of man. And hopefully from these we can learn our lessons the easier way and not follow the paths of others to find out the hard way.
Now there has been much discussion on this forum as to many particulars that have been spoken in the past and the present, as well as changes to the Book of Mormon, appearant abberant behaviour of members and leaders. But I say now that none of that changes the doctrine I just spoke.
What difference does it make what past leaders may have said about the color of peoples skin when the 1978 revelation is retroactive. And that can happen in Christ’s church. For what good would it be if we say that those of our faith are saved when we damn all those who never had a chance to learn of or participate in our faith. Christ made His sacrifice for all mankind.
So leaders have spoken in the use of the most final of punishments (capital punishment) for those who have created great sins. Did these people not also live at a time when former members cried out for the blood of the prophet and actually took it. That was truly a dangerous time to be an LDS. Not only did outsiders want to kill you, but so did apostates.
But all of that is pointless. The church is not that of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young. This is not the church of Bruce R. McConkie or Hugh Nibley. This is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The organization at large may change, the purpose is the same

By: Jacob5

Jacob5 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 23:25:13 +0000

Thank you Woenigma for your further comment. I was beginning the feel lonely.
It is clear that we differ on our beliefs of the differences of the early church compared to today.
It may seem that there is a great deal of discrepency between the early church and today. I will ascent to that. However, I believe that even though the church at the beginning is not exactly the same as today, that does not disuade me from my belief in it. The same basic structure is still there. We have a prophet with two counselors, 12 apostles. I say as long as that authority still exists then you still do have the church. I would find it actually very archaic if we stuck with the same exact structure as we did with those handful of members. Such leadership could not cover today’s membership.
Some may say that the doctrines of the church have changed as well. We still do hold to the basic principles and ordinances (faith in Christ, repentance, baptism for the remission of sins, receiving of the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end). The principles of the family are still in place (marry for time and all eternity, raise up children to the Lord in righteousness). We still have the same believes of where we came from, why we are here, and where we are going. We are all sons and daughters of God. Jesus Christ is our Elder Brother who volunteered to sacrifice Himself after living a perfect sinless life. We are here to take the test to see that after given the choice of good and evil that we will follow the good.

By: woenigma

woenigma — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 15:05:55 +0000

Quix and others
Then you do not understand history! It repeats itself. People get the gospel and all it’s ordinances and then they sin against it and loose it (Noah, Jews-several times, gentiles). The gate is narrow it doesn’t widen so you can be unique. Do we, in this generation, think we are above it when the scriptures clearly state that all churches go astray. What of the story of Jesus and brides, the brides are in the church yet half of them are not prepared for what is to come. To many EV churches preach what feels good and change the doctrine to keep the income flowing. I watched almost an entire congregation move from one EV church to another because of ONE sermon. I have visited many Christian churches and I find no substance other then the basics (tithing, baptism, example to others, share your belief in Christ…) I had a testimony of Christ before I went to the EV church, I know there is more see John 21:25. JACOB5 in D&C 43 5-6 so we are not deceived go to 7 to teach those revelations which you have received and shall receive through him whom I have appointed. WHAT WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN HAS CHANGED, THEREFORE THEY FAIL THE TEST OF v5 and 6. Isaiah 28:8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean v20 for the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
Are we gathered to the barn?

By: Just for Quix

Just for Quix — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 01:22:37 +0000

It’s not much of a tribute to the vitality of Mormon theology to liken it to a bad or boring movie, really no more important than something one should be able to easily walk away from Now, who do I talk about getting a refund on my tens-of-thousands-of-dollar-cost movie ticket?

I do grow weary of the presentist attitudes that shape many LDS members’ ignorant comprehension of the primitive church (including their own early LDS history). One only has to read the NT itself, leaving aside all the extra-biblical history and scholarship, to know that the LDS heirarchical notion of the primitive church’s composition and leadership is nonsense. The church was a body of believers, composed of fractured churches each working with the unique strengths, weaknesses and challenges that came because of the culture that made up each congregation. It’s probably good, because we get epistles on many doctrinal and practical matters emanating from the unique needs among each group addressed. One only needs to know the story behind the atmosphere at the Council of Jerusalem to truly appreciate the feat of Peter and Paul preserving some unity of the faith with other leaders who felt differently. It it were not such a colorful history, the NT may look today more like the generalized pablum that is most talks in LDS General Conference Sorry, that was mean…

…Now back to the discussion at hand…

By: kish

kish — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:37:08 +0000

Interesting comments above. first time here, but to read a comment like a simple Gospel! Well the Bible and the spoken word is not simple, it takes work and when the Good Book says things like ” Narrow is the way to heaven” and One faith , One God and One religion it goes against the statement the the church is just a body. There was a church establinshed in the early days The Church of Christ. And it had structure and authority and it was clear. I have a comment that one may try to answer for me. If Jesus (not god) came to earth and died and after he was resurrected told mary to touch him no for he has not accended to heaven. then he left for 3 days and came back and then the apostles touched him(he was of substance-flesh) and then said I am perfect even as my father in heaven is perfect. Why is it that there is still comments that God and jesus are the same personanges and that they do not have Bodies!

By: kish

kish — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:29:57 +0000

When we twist and turn we cam make anthing look good or bad. The Gentleman did not have a complete testimony of the Gospel. That is ok in and of itself, and he was and is intitled to leave the church and stay home and go to another faith. His records would have stayed and if he requested would and could have been disolved or have no longer been a memeber. There would have been no reason or ryhme to stay and try to diswade others, sounds like another following we hear about that finds it there duty to “SAVE” me! Well if he was not happpy with the COFFEE thing then maybe he could not have lived by the Word of Wisdom and it had control over him and not he over it. But all in all if I dont like a movie i watch i would get up and leave not go from chair to chair telling everyone there what i did not like about it and make sure tehy leave with me so as to “Feel Better about Myself”. The Manager of the movie would have kicked me out. WOuld I see a blog about it too!

By: Michael P

Michael P — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:40:20 +0000

Woenigma, there are some churches out there that do indeed keep the message very simple. Their called “seeker” churches. And as others have said, each church has its own problems. I know mine is not perfect. But what you have done is categorize all Evangelical Churches in this one vein. That’s a mistake, because seeker churches primary goal is to bring people to Christ, hence the simple messages. There are other churches that offer more forums (and I’d bet the majority of the seeker churches do to) to dig deeper.

Churches are rarely, if ever, made alike, especially in Evangelical churches. I’d encourage you to find one that does dig deeper so, if at the least, you can experience what they offer, so you can see they exist.