Comments on: With a Sincere Heart http://blog.mrm.org/2008/03/with-a-sincere-heart/ It's forbidden, but it's good! Fri, 12 Mar 2010 18:11:09 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Lautensack http://blog.mrm.org/2008/03/with-a-sincere-heart/comment-page-2/#comment-6912 Lautensack Thu, 03 Apr 2008 08:00:23 +0000 http://blog.mrm.org/2008/03/with-a-sincere-heart/#comment-6912 Clarity67, Perhaps I was unclear thus I clarify my previous statements. In order for your religion to be true mine must be false. Thus historical Christianity is an apostate faith, as your own book says "the church of the devil."(1 Nephi 14:10) If this is not the case, if my church is the other church described in that very verse, for there are only two, then what need was there for a restoration? This is why the Great and Total Apostasy is the key doctrine of your faith. By "the key doctrine" (singular) I mean that it is the necessary one upon which you build the rest, as Mohammad did with Islam. Men turned away from the faith so that it no longer existed on the earth and needed to be restored. This must mean that God must have failed in keeping His promise that the Church would stand without fail. (Matthew 16:16-18; Ephesians 3:20-21) Now you might say that God did not choose men for close to 1700-1800 years depending on when you date the beginning of this apostasy but if that were the case, why make such promises if He was unable to keep men for Himself as He had done in the past? (Romans 11:4 cf.1 Kings 19:18) Finally do you interpret the statement that the Truth Himself makes when He says, <i>"All the that the Father give to me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out."</i> to mean? As for the "about a hundred sects of Mormonism" <a href="http://www.tektonics.org/lp/mormondivide.html" rel="nofollow">Here is a source</a> if a majority of the groups listed can be proven as to have not sprung from Mormonism I will gladly recant the statement that there are about a hundred splinter groups. Please note that this list does not contain many of the modern splinter groups. Lautensack Clarity67,
Perhaps I was unclear thus I clarify my previous statements. In order for your religion to be true mine must be false. Thus historical Christianity is an apostate faith, as your own book says “the church of the devil.”(1 Nephi 14:10) If this is not the case, if my church is the other church described in that very verse, for there are only two, then what need was there for a restoration? This is why the Great and Total Apostasy is the key doctrine of your faith. By “the key doctrine” (singular) I mean that it is the necessary one upon which you build the rest, as Mohammad did with Islam. Men turned away from the faith so that it no longer existed on the earth and needed to be restored. This must mean that God must have failed in keeping His promise that the Church would stand without fail. (Matthew 16:16-18; Ephesians 3:20-21)
Now you might say that God did not choose men for close to 1700-1800 years depending on when you date the beginning of this apostasy but if that were the case, why make such promises if He was unable to keep men for Himself as He had done in the past? (Romans 11:4 cf.1 Kings 19:18)
Finally do you interpret the statement that the Truth Himself makes when He says, “All the that the Father give to me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.” to mean?
As for the “about a hundred sects of Mormonism” Here is a source if a majority of the groups listed can be proven as to have not sprung from Mormonism I will gladly recant the statement that there are about a hundred splinter groups. Please note that this list does not contain many of the modern splinter groups.

Lautensack

]]> By: clarity67 http://blog.mrm.org/2008/03/with-a-sincere-heart/comment-page-2/#comment-6910 clarity67 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 05:50:08 +0000 http://blog.mrm.org/2008/03/with-a-sincere-heart/#comment-6910 8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. 9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. 10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory. 11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. 12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. 13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things. Joseph Smith If you’re going to question our faith at least get your resources correct. 8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

If you’re going to question our faith at least get your resources correct.

]]> By: clarity67 http://blog.mrm.org/2008/03/with-a-sincere-heart/comment-page-2/#comment-6909 clarity67 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 05:46:59 +0000 http://blog.mrm.org/2008/03/with-a-sincere-heart/#comment-6909 Lautensack, You said, “I see also the difference in that you religion allows room for God to fail in this calling. This leaves much room for a total apostasy which is the key doctrine of your faith. Thus the fact that God fails is essential to your faith.” Well, how about that. Let’s start with your accusation of God failing. When was the last time God failed at anything? Are you suggesting that if WE do not turn to God and accept the Savior that God has somehow FAILED? And you believe that Mormons believe this? What? Total apostasy is the key doctrine of our faith????? Perhaps you have been reading some literature from the other 99 sects of Mormonism you claim to know about. Let me help you…..the following are the “key doctrines” (your words) , or Articles of Faith: THE ARTICLES OF FAITH OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541 1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. 2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression. 3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. 4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. 5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof. 6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth. 7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth. Lautensack, You said, “I see also the difference in that you religion allows room for God to fail in this calling. This leaves much room for a total apostasy which is the key doctrine of your faith. Thus the fact that God fails is essential to your faith.” Well, how about that. Let’s start with your accusation of God failing. When was the last time God failed at anything? Are you suggesting that if WE do not turn to God and accept the Savior that God has somehow FAILED? And you believe that Mormons believe this? What? Total apostasy is the key doctrine of our faith????? Perhaps you have been reading some literature from the other 99 sects of Mormonism you claim to know about. Let me help you…..the following are the “key doctrines” (your words) , or Articles of Faith:

THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541

1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

]]> By: Lautensack http://blog.mrm.org/2008/03/with-a-sincere-heart/comment-page-2/#comment-6900 Lautensack Wed, 02 Apr 2008 16:39:44 +0000 http://blog.mrm.org/2008/03/with-a-sincere-heart/#comment-6900 Bump for Clarity67. Bump for Clarity67.

]]> By: Lautensack http://blog.mrm.org/2008/03/with-a-sincere-heart/comment-page-2/#comment-6875 Lautensack Mon, 31 Mar 2008 09:10:58 +0000 http://blog.mrm.org/2008/03/with-a-sincere-heart/#comment-6875 As for my use of the word mystery yes in this case it was rhetorical. Thus I will make a statement rather than a question for the sake of clarity (no pun intended). The reason God saved men and ordained the Son to die on a cross, becoming cursed by God (Deuteronomy 21:23), to be pierced for our transgressions and crushed for our sins (Isaiah 53:5), to bear our sins in His body (1 Peter 2:24) was for His [Father, Son, and Holy Spirit] Glory. Lautensack As for my use of the word mystery yes in this case it was rhetorical. Thus I will make a statement rather than a question for the sake of clarity (no pun intended). The reason God saved men and ordained the Son to die on a cross, becoming cursed by God (Deuteronomy 21:23), to be pierced for our transgressions and crushed for our sins (Isaiah 53:5), to bear our sins in His body (1 Peter 2:24) was for His [Father, Son, and Holy Spirit] Glory.

Lautensack

]]> By: Lautensack http://blog.mrm.org/2008/03/with-a-sincere-heart/comment-page-2/#comment-6874 Lautensack Mon, 31 Mar 2008 09:10:36 +0000 http://blog.mrm.org/2008/03/with-a-sincere-heart/#comment-6874 Clarity67, I do see a similarity in our beliefs in that it takes the drawing power of the Father through the Holy Spirit, however I see also the difference in that you religion allows room for God to fail in this calling. This leaves much room for a total apostasy which is the key doctrine of your faith. Thus the fact that God fails is essential to your faith. I on the other hand believe the words of Christ "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day...No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day." John 6:37-40;44 and "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand." John 10:25-29 Because of this what the writer of the Epistle to the Hebrews wrote can be true of Christ where "for by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." Hebrews 10:14 As for the foolishness of the cross, it is only foolishness to those who are perishing, but God's very wrath was turned against the Son for those who are being saved.(Isaiah 53:10) It pleased the LORD(Jehovah) to crush him [Jesus] and put him to grief. CONTINUED. Clarity67,
I do see a similarity in our beliefs in that it takes the drawing power of the Father through the Holy Spirit, however I see also the difference in that you religion allows room for God to fail in this calling. This leaves much room for a total apostasy which is the key doctrine of your faith. Thus the fact that God fails is essential to your faith. I on the other hand believe the words of Christ “All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day…No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:37-40;44 and “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.” John 10:25-29 Because of this what the writer of the Epistle to the Hebrews wrote can be true of Christ where “for by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.” Hebrews 10:14
As for the foolishness of the cross, it is only foolishness to those who are perishing, but God’s very wrath was turned against the Son for those who are being saved.(Isaiah 53:10) It pleased the LORD(Jehovah) to crush him [Jesus] and put him to grief.

CONTINUED.

]]> By: clarity67 http://blog.mrm.org/2008/03/with-a-sincere-heart/comment-page-2/#comment-6873 clarity67 Mon, 31 Mar 2008 05:18:08 +0000 http://blog.mrm.org/2008/03/with-a-sincere-heart/#comment-6873 autensack, I am extremely impressed!! (not an ounce of sarcasm.) Don’t look now but you are nearly quoting the Book of Mormon in word and concept. You said “our agency is bound to our desires and we as fallen creatures will always desire the things that oppose God UNLESS God through the efficacious calling of the Holy Spirit brings us to freely choose Him, which the Holy Spirit does not fail in.” (Mosiah 3:19) “For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, UNLESS he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.” I am in awe of your insight. :) To answer, animals (God’s creations) simply fulfill the measure of their creation. Fish swim, birds fly, insects crawl, and yes, predators such as wolves and bears seek out prey. This is the world in which we now live with enmity of the beasts. Isaiah 11 tells us that this will cease during the millennium when Christ reigns (Isaiah 11:6-7) “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.” and (D&C 101:26), “And in that day the enmity of man, and the enmity of beasts, yea, the enmity of all flesh, shall cease from before my face.” I am a little confused by paragraph 3. Are you suggesting that God was seeking to glorify Himself by sending Jesus to suffer and this was, in some way, foolishness on His part? Please clarify. Is this truly a "mystery" to you or were you being rhetorical? autensack,

I am extremely impressed!! (not an ounce of sarcasm.) Don’t look now but you are nearly quoting the Book of Mormon in word and concept. You said “our agency is bound to our desires and we as fallen creatures will always desire the things that oppose God UNLESS God through the efficacious calling of the Holy Spirit brings us to freely choose Him, which the Holy Spirit does not fail in.”

(Mosiah 3:19) “For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, UNLESS he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.” I am in awe of your insight. :)

To answer, animals (God’s creations) simply fulfill the measure of their creation. Fish swim, birds fly, insects crawl, and yes, predators such as wolves and bears seek out prey. This is the world in which we now live with enmity of the beasts. Isaiah 11 tells us that this will cease during the millennium when Christ reigns (Isaiah 11:6-7) “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.” and (D&C 101:26), “And in that day the enmity of man, and the enmity of beasts, yea, the enmity of all flesh, shall cease from before my face.”

I am a little confused by paragraph 3. Are you suggesting that God was seeking to glorify Himself by sending Jesus to suffer and this was, in some way, foolishness on His part? Please clarify. Is this truly a “mystery” to you or were you being rhetorical?

]]> By: Lautensack http://blog.mrm.org/2008/03/with-a-sincere-heart/comment-page-2/#comment-6870 Lautensack Sun, 30 Mar 2008 14:28:51 +0000 http://blog.mrm.org/2008/03/with-a-sincere-heart/#comment-6870 Clarity67, First I must humbly disagree with your interpretation of Jeremiah 1:5, however that is a discussion for a different thread entirely, perhaps one in the future on the pre-existence. You say that animals must follow God, so would you say that the wolf or bear that wanders into the city or suburb and devours a family in their sleep is being forced by God to do that, as they are forced to obey Him? It is a mystery why God the Son would willingly enter into His own creation to save men who hate Him and are enemies with Him. Could it perhaps be to bring glory to Himself? Could not this be the foolishness of the cross? For even prior to the cross there was to be a resurrection.(Matthew 22) You ask the purpose of our bodies. Could it not be that they make us rely upon God for every good and perfect gift? (James 1:17; Matthew 6:26) Just as the law was given to increase our trespass is it not plausible that the body was give to increase our dependency? For God is active in the world and winning souls of men according to His purpose, not ours, for not a generation has gone by that God has not been glorified by the Church in Jesus Christ. (Ephesians 3:21) Now before you throw up the agency flag, I agree we do have agency, however our agency is bound to our desires and we as fallen creatures will always desire the things that oppose God unless God through the efficacious calling of the Holy Spirit brings us to freely choose Him, which the Holy Spirit does not fail in. (John 6:37-40;44, John 10:25-30) Lautensack Clarity67,
First I must humbly disagree with your interpretation of Jeremiah 1:5, however that is a discussion for a different thread entirely, perhaps one in the future on the pre-existence.
You say that animals must follow God, so would you say that the wolf or bear that wanders into the city or suburb and devours a family in their sleep is being forced by God to do that, as they are forced to obey Him?
It is a mystery why God the Son would willingly enter into His own creation to save men who hate Him and are enemies with Him. Could it perhaps be to bring glory to Himself? Could not this be the foolishness of the cross? For even prior to the cross there was to be a resurrection.(Matthew 22)
You ask the purpose of our bodies. Could it not be that they make us rely upon God for every good and perfect gift? (James 1:17; Matthew 6:26) Just as the law was given to increase our trespass is it not plausible that the body was give to increase our dependency? For God is active in the world and winning souls of men according to His purpose, not ours, for not a generation has gone by that God has not been glorified by the Church in Jesus Christ. (Ephesians 3:21)
Now before you throw up the agency flag, I agree we do have agency, however our agency is bound to our desires and we as fallen creatures will always desire the things that oppose God unless God through the efficacious calling of the Holy Spirit brings us to freely choose Him, which the Holy Spirit does not fail in. (John 6:37-40;44, John 10:25-30)

Lautensack

]]> By: clarity67 http://blog.mrm.org/2008/03/with-a-sincere-heart/comment-page-2/#comment-6867 clarity67 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 07:03:57 +0000 http://blog.mrm.org/2008/03/with-a-sincere-heart/#comment-6867 However, the difference with man is that we were spiritually begotten of Him before, (Jer 1:5) (D&C 76:24) and then sent here and given dominion (Gen 1:26-28). In short, God granted us agency that we could choose for ourselves whether we will serve Him and be obedient to his commands, or not. The animals, and all other creatures are not granted that same privilege, they must obey (some people will call it following their intuition, or natural tendencies for survival) as they are commanded to multiply, each after their own kind, etc. So, while you have indicated it is the breath of life that sets us apart ( and I agree strongly), I believe there’s something more. We can respectfully agree to disagree here and I am grateful for your patience for my argumentative side that, at times, threads my wording. At least, I feel like I understand your take and am not left confused. Further, I apologize - the accusation about translation flaws was a general criticism and not directed at you personally. I whole heartedly agree that one of our purposes in this life is to glorify God. To explain my “weird”(your reference) thinking to you, it stems from the belief that gaining a physical body was/is another primary purpose of our life here and part of the grand design of the Creator. If not, why send a Savior to redeem us from death so that we could be resurrected and retain our bodies like Him?? And as you said, “Had He in His infinite wisdom to create us without one He would have.” YES!! BUT HE DIDN’T!! Therefore, is it reasonable to conclude that if, in your words, God’s wisdom is infinite, and here we are alive with physical bodies, that we absolutely need them in order to glorify God or otherwise fulfill our purpose here?? And if so, why??? Or why not? However, the difference with man is that we were spiritually begotten of Him before, (Jer 1:5) (D&C 76:24) and then sent here and given dominion (Gen 1:26-28). In short, God granted us agency that we could choose for ourselves whether we will serve Him and be obedient to his commands, or not. The animals, and all other creatures are not granted that same privilege, they must obey (some people will call it following their intuition, or natural tendencies for survival) as they are commanded to multiply, each after their own kind, etc. So, while you have indicated it is the breath of life that sets us apart ( and I agree strongly), I believe there’s something more.

We can respectfully agree to disagree here and I am grateful for your patience for my argumentative side that, at times, threads my wording. At least, I feel like I understand your take and am not left confused. Further, I apologize – the accusation about translation flaws was a general criticism and not directed at you personally. I whole heartedly agree that one of our purposes in this life is to glorify God. To explain my “weird”(your reference) thinking to you, it stems from the belief that gaining a physical body was/is another primary purpose of our life here and part of the grand design of the Creator. If not, why send a Savior to redeem us from death so that we could be resurrected and retain our bodies like Him?? And as you said, “Had He in His infinite wisdom to create us without one He would have.” YES!! BUT HE DIDN’T!! Therefore, is it reasonable to conclude that if, in your words, God’s wisdom is infinite, and here we are alive with physical bodies, that we absolutely need them in order to glorify God or otherwise fulfill our purpose here?? And if so, why??? Or why not?

]]> By: clarity67 http://blog.mrm.org/2008/03/with-a-sincere-heart/comment-page-2/#comment-6866 clarity67 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 05:28:34 +0000 http://blog.mrm.org/2008/03/with-a-sincere-heart/#comment-6866 Rick, This IS our understanding regarding Lucifer as well as the hosts of heaven that followed him (Rev 12:7-9) and the scriptures show many examples where evil, unclean spirits , demons, etc. long to abide or possess the bodies of humans, or even swine (Matt 8:28-32). What we know about the Holy Ghost is contained in the scriptures, namely that he is a member of the Godhead, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and “a personage of Spirit, were it not so, he could not dwell in us“. (D&C130:22) He is one with the Father and the Son in purpose, glory, and power. Any further speculation such as to whether or not he may receive a body, or any other guesswork is fruitless because we don’t know. Lautensack, Thank you for your detailed explanation. I finally think I am understanding the difference. You said, “God breathed life into us in a way that He did for no other creation (Gen 2:7) I agree. Perhaps where we differ is that I believe that all things were created spiritually first. Moses 3:3-7 states, “For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men; and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air; And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word. “ To answer, of course I do not believe that snakes will “ become snake gods”. All creatures of God were created by Him to fulfill the measure of their creation according to His command. Contd... Rick,

This IS our understanding regarding Lucifer as well as the hosts of heaven that followed him (Rev 12:7-9) and the scriptures show many examples where evil, unclean spirits , demons, etc. long to abide or possess the bodies of humans, or even swine (Matt 8:28-32). What we know about the Holy Ghost is contained in the scriptures, namely that he is a member of the Godhead, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and “a personage of Spirit, were it not so, he could not dwell in us“. (D&C130:22) He is one with the Father and the Son in purpose, glory, and power. Any further speculation such as to whether or not he may receive a body, or any other guesswork is fruitless because we don’t know.

Lautensack,

Thank you for your detailed explanation. I finally think I am understanding the difference. You said, “God breathed life into us in a way that He did for no other creation (Gen 2:7) I agree. Perhaps where we differ is that I believe that all things were created spiritually first. Moses 3:3-7 states, “For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men; and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air; And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word. “

To answer, of course I do not believe that snakes will “ become snake gods”. All creatures of God were created by Him to fulfill the measure of their creation according to His command.

Contd…

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