I hope that you will sincerely accept my apology for any offense I may have accused you of falsely. I was covertly hopeful and, now, grateful that your motives aren’t as malicious as I had presumed. For that again, I apologize.

I went through much of the same (a similar search) at the time I received my mission call and was confronted with “alternative” accounts of Church history and perhaps what could/would be considered anti-literature for the first time. Some of my friends, one in particular, my roommate at college questioned my allegiance and could not understand why I would sacrifice so much. Frankly, I had the same questions. I know and understand that they were concerned for me, and even though I thought my roommate was just upset that I would leave him with the whole rent (I realize now, not true) I had to find my own way.

Without expressing in words, and not trying to be smug or in any way disrespectful or condescending to anyone who may read this, simply put, I have my witness. With all the sincerity I can muster, don’t think I am copping out by not sharing particulars, but I could not deny what I know and how I know it if I wanted to. I don’t intimately know about other people’s testimonies and wouldn’t profess to, all I have is mine. I truly appreciate your candor and I acknowledge that you certainly have the right to your testimony and hope you don’t fault me for wishing it was different.

I absolutely agree with the quote of Joseph Fielding Smith. If Joseph Smith was not a prophet, then the Church is just another institution, like many others, that does a lot of nice things for as many as it can, and its members are misled. However, if he was a prophet, then the Church is the Lord’s kingdom restored to the earth. My warning to you was erring on the side of caution.

Clarity67, don’t take what I am doing as something personal only to the Mormons. I have and still do now, when the opportunity presents itself, the same thing with the JW’s and many others that peddle false doctrine. I was born, raised and lived the first 26 years of my life in the South where the JW’s are the majority over the Mormons. When they knock on your door and assault your neighborhood on a Saturday morning the Christian better be prepared to have an answer (1 Pet 3:15). Witnessing to JW’s is much easier than Mormons and that is another conversation. Bottom line, Charles Russell, the founder of the JW’s, was shown to be a false prophet and all those after him because of his false doctrines and prophecies. On equal charge, Joseph Smith is guilty of the same thing. Joseph Fielding Smith said:

“Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground. If Joseph Smith was a deceiver, who willfully attempted to mislead people, the he should be exposed; his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false, for the doctrines of an imposter cannot be made to harmonize in all particulars with divine truth. If his claims and declaration were built upon fraud and deceit, there would appear many errors and contradictions, which would be easy to detect. The doctrines of false teachers will not stand the test when tried by the accepted standards of measurement, the scriptures.” (Doctrines of Salvation 1:188)

To that I say, “Amen!”. When I read what Mormon historians say about Joseph Smith, look at teachings and doctrines that changed over the years, see the contradictions when tested by the scriptures (the Bible) etc., it’s clear to me that he was a false prophet and the LDS Church is not true.

Most, not all but most, ex-Mormons I’ve come across did not leave because they couldn’t keep the commandments. They leave because they realize that the church ISN’T true. They leave because they realize the Mormon gospel that is “the same yesterday, today and forever,” changes with every first presidency press release. They leave because the church carefully rewrites thier history every generation to fit it’s public persona. They leave when they realize that the church controls people’s lives by only providing certain ‘faith-promoting’ detail regarding Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, and ignore and pretend other facts that aren’t so faith promoting don’t exist, but never openly refute these details. They leave when they see dishonesty from the highest general authorities with no explaination or justification. They leave when they realize they have been duped thier entire lives. They leave, as I did, because thier parents taught them to be honest. And they cannot honestly say that the church is true.

If every Mormon who couldn’t ‘keep the commandments’ left the church, there wouldn’t be any Mormons. Name one person in the church who keeps the Mormon commandments, 100% of the time, all thier life. If you think you might have one, and ask them, I’ll be if they are honest and humble like we are commanded to be, they wouldn’t agree.

People leave the church because it isn’t what it claims to be. Period.

I am following the Biblical outline that Paul did in Acts 17. Paul’s spirit was stirred when he saw the city of Athens given to idolotry (v.16). Paul went where the Jews were and disputed with them namely in their synagogues (v.17). This is me except it’s with the Mormon people. I just can’t sit on my rump and do nothing while I watch good, sincere hearted people sell their souls to a gospel which was founded by a false prophet. Every ward service and class I attend the reaction is always the same: people come up to me and thank me for my thought provoking comments and questions. I am courteous and respectful to all those that I meet. I love the Mormon people and am very concerned. That is exactly what I tell them.

Yesterday, I was speaking with the teacher of the Gospel Essentials class that I attended. We sat together during the priesthood meeting and discussed many things. I shared with him concerns and questions that I had and we talked until everybody left the church and the lights were out. He invited me over to his house for dinner and now wants to do lunch and talk more. I doubt this would have happened if I was a hellraiser.

When asked, I have told them that I go to a Baptist church on Sunday morning. I have never lied about my intentions and what I am doing at the wards. It is not easy to tell Mormons that they are headed to outer darkness if they continue in this man-made religion. It is the loving thing to do and it has to be done.

Wouldn’t you want somebody to care enough to tell you if you were headed in the wrong direction? I don’t try to prove the LDS Church is wrong. It does that all on its own by their own writings. Read Mormon historian Richard Bushman’s “Rough Stone Rolling” and then tell me you don’t have concerns.

I know the LDS Church is here to stay. I accept that. That grieves me because the growth of the Church keeps increasing just like the Jehovah’s Witnesses and many other false religions and cults.

This may surprise you, but I am not a son of perdition (ex-Mormon). I have never been a member of the LDS Church. I have been a Christian since 1986. A long time ago I was given a B.O.M. by a friend of mine up in Utah. I took it and started going through it. I followed the Biblical command of testing new revelations and scripture (1 Thes 5:21; Acts 17 [thus my name "Berean"]) and also the Mormon command to do so as stated by Brigham Young (JOD 17:41). The more I read the more troubled I got. I started buying more books and rechecking the ones I just checked to confirm it up. What were my resources? LDS books, magazines, manuals, etc,. I was shocked to find out that the things that troubled were me were in print by Mormon authors and leaders. This became compounded and my research just intensified. I became very concerned for my LDS friends in Utah and for the Mormon people as a whole. I just can’t stand to see people get tricked. This is serious business. These are peoples souls.

My friends in Utah were very ignorant about basic church teachings and couldn’t answer my questions. They said they didn’t have time to do any reading or checking. I talked to missionaries here in Las Vegas over the years and they knew very little and easily gave up on me because they couldn’t answer my questions and became troubled by what they were hearing and reading while we visited. Much has taken place since then and I realized that I had to do more. I prayed about it and asked God what I could do. The answer: start going to Mormon churches and talking directly to the people there. I became so burdened and concerned for the Mormon people that I was willing to take the risk.

I go to my church in the mornings and visit Mormon wards that have afternoon services. I am very respectful and ask questions when appropriate. I wish I could tell you what happened today and you would see what I am talking about. I’ve hit my daily limit. More tomorrow.

I am hesitant to post the following because I have been closely acquainted with family that have left the Church, and am sensitive to the same, but feel compelled to do so as a fair warning, and as a statement of truth for the welfare of your soul.

You know, there’s a generally held belief that those who apostatize from the Church do so because of the “commandment(s) they could not keep“. And when they do, almost without exception, they leave, but they can’t leave it alone, and, thus, they are left to kick against the pricks. This is truly unfortunate and sad, however, I have witnessed it time and again.

Without being completely presumptuous, I would suggest that you fall into this category given your tone and the relentless pursuit in proving the Church wrong, false, deceived, etc. and this to ease your own conscience. It is curious that you spend your Sundays in the Mormon Church in an attempt to, at the very least create dissension or cause confusion, or at best, lead others away (arrogantly delighting in the same). If this is not the case, I am grateful. However, I warn that those who fight against the Church of the Lamb will do so at their own peril.

“The Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; … the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done.”

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is here to stay. Like it, don’t like it, complain about it, disagree with it, draw your distinctions from it, separate yourself from it, BUT resist the temptation to place yourself in opposition to its divinely driven path.

First and foremost, all of the prophets of the LDS church teach that the church and prophets are only given the revelations necessary for the salvation of the people on this earth. Outside of that, some people who are more spiritual can receive further revelation for their own edification, not to share with others or only with a few close associates. In saying this, it means that the LDS church does not have all of the answers to questions – but it does have all of the answers pertinent to our salvation and that should be suffice for all (do I hear groans and ‘what a cop out’ – Well its true so like it or lump it). So in answer to your first 2 questions – there is no answer available because it is not pertinent to our salvation. So you will most likely find nobody who can answer them, but some might try and give their own opinion.

But Q1 is really a moot question because a similar thing can be asked about the God you believe in – where did He come from? What does it mean in your philosophy that He was uncreated? Did He just appear from no where? Has He always been there, if so how? But since we cannot understand infinite time, we cannot understand fully the concept of a being that was always there, nor can we understand a process that is ad infinitum which the LDS church believes in about God.

Q2 We do not know and probably never will until we reach the Celestial Kingdom. Although I have heard some very interesting ideas.

Q3 A Christian website, http://scripturetext.com/matthew/5-48.htm shows that Matt 5:48 this should be translated (gives the Greek text) as we are commanded to become perfect, so it IS an ongoing process not a right here and now. Another http://bible.cc/matthew/5-48.htm gives differing meanings as to what it entails (ie physical works/spiritual attititude, etc).

Thank you for serving me James 2. It was delicious. I’ll be happy to chew that up for you since it’s getting stuck in your “spiritual throat”. Unfortunately, until you swallow it down yourself and digest it in addition to all the rest of God’s Word you are going to starve to death.

Do you really need for me to explain James 2 to you? I’m new to this blog. I’m sure my Christian brothers on here have explained it to you and other fine LDS folks what James 2 is saying.

Again, I’m trying to get you to focus on the same texts that I have mentioned since the beginning: Matt 5:48 & Hebrews 10:10-18. I’m sorry that Mormonism requires you to live all the law and all the commandments to get into the Mormon celestial kingdom. I know it’s heavy on your head. Regrettably, I am going to have to place more weight on your head until you are crushed by the Mormon law requirements until you have nowhere to go but to the liberating freedom of grace as offered by Christ in what He did on the cross.

More weight: from the priesthood manual “To Make Thee a Minister” on page 59 on what Mormons should be doing: fasting, personal prayers, regular family prayer, regular family home evening, home storage, regular scripture study, strict personal worthiness, support of quorum/ward/stake/general church leaders, tender concern for your wife and family members, family history, patience and love, honest work and integrity in your occupation, exemplary grooming and dress, regular attendance at and gaining strength from Church meetings and activities, regular temple attendance, observance of the Word of Wisdom, purity of thought and sabbath keeping.

Are you doing all of the above? If not, your guilty of James 2:10…the chapter you cited.

It appears that since you are still reluctant to accept the complete perfection that has already been offered to you in Christ you will end up in the same place as Joseph Smith – outer darkness. I don’t want that to happen.

James 2: 14, 17-18, 20, 22, 24, 26

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

You know I really hate to ask this, but will you please reconcile the preceding verses for me since I cannot digest the “meatier” issues. Will you please chew this up for me so it is easier to swallow?

Lautensack,

Sorry, at my limit – haven’t forgotten you.

You said,

You have got to get a handle on Isaiah 64:6; Romans chapter 3; Romans 4:1-5; Romans 11:6; the book of Galatians; Ephesians 2:8-9; Matthew 5:48; Hebrews 10:10-18 and others that refutes any idea that man may have of pleasing God in any way by his works.

A little Bible hopscotch for you, since you enjoy it so much.

Col. 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Col. 3:20 Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord

Now before you quote Romans 8:8, I’ll save you the trouble , “ So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.” This is referring to those who “walk after the flesh, or are carnally minded” and not those living in mortality.

Oh, one more

Heb. 11: 5-6 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Can we infer from this verse that “WITH FAITH it is POSSIBLE to please God”? I say yes, what do you say? But with faith alone?

Contd.