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	<title>Comments on: Mormon Coffee Tabletalk: Friday, December 5th in West Jordan, UT</title>
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	<link>http://blog.mrm.org/2008/12/mormon-coffee-tabletalk-friday-december-3rd-in-west-jordan-ut/</link>
	<description>It&#039;s forbidden, but it&#039;s good!</description>
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		<title>By: gunlock</title>
		<link>http://blog.mrm.org/2008/12/mormon-coffee-tabletalk-friday-december-3rd-in-west-jordan-ut/comment-page-2/#comment-13232</link>
		<dc:creator>gunlock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:02:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mrm.org/?p=1498#comment-13232</guid>
		<description>God breathed? 
2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 
Actually the Greek word is &quot;theopneustos&quot;. 
 
&quot;Theo&quot; meaning God and &quot;pneustos&quot; a variant of the word &quot;pneuma&quot; or spirit (as in 1 Cor 2:11) and it literally means spirited. 
 
The word breathed in John 20:22 is translated from the Greek word &quot;emphusaO&quot; literally meaning &#039;He-IN-INFLATES&#039;. 
 
If you look at 2 Tim 3:16 in different English versions of the Bible you find; 
 
American Standard Version = &quot;inspired of God&quot; 
 
Darby Translation = &quot;divinely inspired&quot; 
 
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition = &quot;inspired of God&quot; 
 
Holman Christian Standard Bible = &quot;inspired by God&quot; 
 
King James Version = &quot;inspiration of God&quot; 
 
New American Standard Bible = &quot;inspired by God&quot; 
 
New Century Version = &quot;inspired by God&quot; 
 
New King James Version = &quot;inspiration of God&quot; 
 
New Living Translation = &quot;inspired by God&quot; 
 
Wycliffe New Testament = &quot;inspired of God&quot; 
 
Contemporary English Version = &quot;God&#039;s Word&quot; 
 
21st Century King James Version = &quot;inspiration of God&quot; 
 
New World Translation = &quot;inspired of God&quot; 
 
Are all of those translations &#8220;infallible&#8221; or &#8220;inerrant&#8221;? 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God breathed?<br />
2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:<br />
Actually the Greek word is &quot;theopneustos&quot;. </p>
<p>&quot;Theo&quot; meaning God and &quot;pneustos&quot; a variant of the word &quot;pneuma&quot; or spirit (as in 1 Cor 2:11) and it literally means spirited. </p>
<p>The word breathed in John 20:22 is translated from the Greek word &quot;emphusaO&quot; literally meaning &#039;He-IN-INFLATES&#039;. </p>
<p>If you look at 2 Tim 3:16 in different English versions of the Bible you find; </p>
<p>American Standard Version = &quot;inspired of God&quot; </p>
<p>Darby Translation = &quot;divinely inspired&quot; </p>
<p>Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition = &quot;inspired of God&quot; </p>
<p>Holman Christian Standard Bible = &quot;inspired by God&quot; </p>
<p>King James Version = &quot;inspiration of God&quot; </p>
<p>New American Standard Bible = &quot;inspired by God&quot; </p>
<p>New Century Version = &quot;inspired by God&quot; </p>
<p>New King James Version = &quot;inspiration of God&quot; </p>
<p>New Living Translation = &quot;inspired by God&quot; </p>
<p>Wycliffe New Testament = &quot;inspired of God&quot; </p>
<p>Contemporary English Version = &quot;God&#039;s Word&quot; </p>
<p>21st Century King James Version = &quot;inspiration of God&quot; </p>
<p>New World Translation = &quot;inspired of God&quot; </p>
<p>Are all of those translations &ldquo;infallible&rdquo; or &ldquo;inerrant&rdquo;?</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Shafovaloff</title>
		<link>http://blog.mrm.org/2008/12/mormon-coffee-tabletalk-friday-december-3rd-in-west-jordan-ut/comment-page-2/#comment-13244</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Shafovaloff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mrm.org/?p=1498#comment-13244</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=1193&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=1193&lt;/a&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=1193" rel="nofollow">http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=1193</a></p>
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		<title>By: Lautensack</title>
		<link>http://blog.mrm.org/2008/12/mormon-coffee-tabletalk-friday-december-3rd-in-west-jordan-ut/comment-page-2/#comment-13246</link>
		<dc:creator>Lautensack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mrm.org/?p=1498#comment-13246</guid>
		<description>DOF wrote: &lt;i&gt;Not scripture at the time he wrote it. It talks of another &quot;gospel&quot; and says nothing about what is scripture and what is not. &lt;/i&gt; 
This phrase seems a bit odd to me, while I agree no letter of Paul&#039;s was scripture prior to its inscription, when do you think it became scripture? 
 
Lautensack </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DOF wrote: <i>Not scripture at the time he wrote it. It talks of another &quot;gospel&quot; and says nothing about what is scripture and what is not. </i><br />
This phrase seems a bit odd to me, while I agree no letter of Paul&#039;s was scripture prior to its inscription, when do you think it became scripture? </p>
<p>Lautensack</p>
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		<title>By: Lautensack</title>
		<link>http://blog.mrm.org/2008/12/mormon-coffee-tabletalk-friday-december-3rd-in-west-jordan-ut/comment-page-2/#comment-13245</link>
		<dc:creator>Lautensack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:00:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mrm.org/?p=1498#comment-13245</guid>
		<description>DOF, 
Interesting positions, I am wondering what the definition of sola scriptura you are working with to make these assertions. 
 
Lautensack </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DOF,<br />
Interesting positions, I am wondering what the definition of sola scriptura you are working with to make these assertions. </p>
<p>Lautensack</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Shafovaloff</title>
		<link>http://blog.mrm.org/2008/12/mormon-coffee-tabletalk-friday-december-3rd-in-west-jordan-ut/comment-page-2/#comment-13199</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Shafovaloff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 12:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mrm.org/?p=1498#comment-13199</guid>
		<description>It is more important to appeal to scripture, God&#039;s testimony, than it is to tell our testimony of how God has worked in our lives. Both are important, but God&#039;s testimony as scripture is primarily what the Holy Spirit uses to affect the heart. After all, the Holy Spirit is the divine author of scripture.  
  
This is a big reason why Christians often open their Bibles in evangelism, whereas Mormons see it often quickly as mere bashing instead of the beautiful and compelling and important opening of God&#039;s testimony. If Mormons thought of scripture as God&#039;s very testimony, then they would appeal to it instead of bearing personal testimony of their own feelings. And they wouldn&#039;t see the Bible as a club to be bashed with, but a healing, disciplining, life-giving medicine that comes from the Almighty God. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is more important to appeal to scripture, God&#39;s testimony, than it is to tell our testimony of how God has worked in our lives. Both are important, but God&#39;s testimony as scripture is primarily what the Holy Spirit uses to affect the heart. After all, the Holy Spirit is the divine author of scripture.  </p>
<p>This is a big reason why Christians often open their Bibles in evangelism, whereas Mormons see it often quickly as mere bashing instead of the beautiful and compelling and important opening of God&#39;s testimony. If Mormons thought of scripture as God&#39;s very testimony, then they would appeal to it instead of bearing personal testimony of their own feelings. And they wouldn&#39;t see the Bible as a club to be bashed with, but a healing, disciplining, life-giving medicine that comes from the Almighty God.</p>
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		<title>By: MichaelP</title>
		<link>http://blog.mrm.org/2008/12/mormon-coffee-tabletalk-friday-december-3rd-in-west-jordan-ut/comment-page-2/#comment-13229</link>
		<dc:creator>MichaelP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 11:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mrm.org/?p=1498#comment-13229</guid>
		<description>SteveH, 
Another example of a mispresentation of our beliefs.  No one would say God is done talking to us, you do know that, right?  So do YOU understand OUR beliefs? 
 
The idea of a testimony is entirely subjective, because there is no way that I can, or anyone here, can deny how you view your experience.  I do not know what you have felt, but nor do you know what I have felt, right?  You&#039;ll probably say that I have not truly experienced God because I am  not a Mormon, or something along those lines.  Even though you say all can experience God in their own way, unless they accept the Mormon view, they haven&#039;t gone all the way (accurate enough?).  But the experience is something you cannot know from my view point, because it is not you experience it.  Right?  So, when I have an experience contrary to yours, how do we resolve the discrepency of what the experience speaks to? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SteveH,<br />
Another example of a mispresentation of our beliefs.  No one would say God is done talking to us, you do know that, right?  So do YOU understand OUR beliefs? </p>
<p>The idea of a testimony is entirely subjective, because there is no way that I can, or anyone here, can deny how you view your experience.  I do not know what you have felt, but nor do you know what I have felt, right?  You&#039;ll probably say that I have not truly experienced God because I am  not a Mormon, or something along those lines.  Even though you say all can experience God in their own way, unless they accept the Mormon view, they haven&#039;t gone all the way (accurate enough?).  But the experience is something you cannot know from my view point, because it is not you experience it.  Right?  So, when I have an experience contrary to yours, how do we resolve the discrepency of what the experience speaks to?</p>
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		<title>By: Gundek</title>
		<link>http://blog.mrm.org/2008/12/mormon-coffee-tabletalk-friday-december-3rd-in-west-jordan-ut/comment-page-2/#comment-13214</link>
		<dc:creator>Gundek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 08:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mrm.org/?p=1498#comment-13214</guid>
		<description>DOF,  
 
I believe that God has fulfilled His promise in Proverbs 22:19-21, revealed Himself and through His providence brought together His Word, compiling it and preserving it so that the faithful may know His Truth. 
 
I am sure that you have heard all of this before but hear goes.  First Peter testifies to the canonical nature of Paul&#039;s letters (2 Peter 3:15-16).  Second Peter also teaches that the words of the prophets in the Bible are the Word of God and not of men (2 Peter 1:19-21).  These words are &quot;carried along by the Holy Spirit&quot; who testifies of their truthfulness to the faithful.  The writer of Hebrews tells also tells us that the age of the Prophets is over (Heb 1:1, 2). 
 
As to how I can reject the D&amp;C or any other modern revelation, once again I refer you to 2 Peter 1:20.  Scripture is not something for personal interpretation.   This verse and others are the basis for the Reformed teaching that &quot;the infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself...&quot; (WCF I, IX) Add to that Paul&#039;s teaching in Galatians chapter 1 verse 9, &quot;As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.&quot; 
 
It is my contention that when you take the Old and New Testament and compare them with the teachings of the D&amp;C you will not find the same Gospel that Paul preached. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DOF,  </p>
<p>I believe that God has fulfilled His promise in Proverbs 22:19-21, revealed Himself and through His providence brought together His Word, compiling it and preserving it so that the faithful may know His Truth. </p>
<p>I am sure that you have heard all of this before but hear goes.  First Peter testifies to the canonical nature of Paul&#039;s letters (2 Peter 3:15-16).  Second Peter also teaches that the words of the prophets in the Bible are the Word of God and not of men (2 Peter 1:19-21).  These words are &quot;carried along by the Holy Spirit&quot; who testifies of their truthfulness to the faithful.  The writer of Hebrews tells also tells us that the age of the Prophets is over (Heb 1:1, 2). </p>
<p>As to how I can reject the D&amp;C or any other modern revelation, once again I refer you to 2 Peter 1:20.  Scripture is not something for personal interpretation.   This verse and others are the basis for the Reformed teaching that &quot;the infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself&#8230;&quot; (WCF I, IX) Add to that Paul&#039;s teaching in Galatians chapter 1 verse 9, &quot;As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.&quot; </p>
<p>It is my contention that when you take the Old and New Testament and compare them with the teachings of the D&amp;C you will not find the same Gospel that Paul preached.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveH</title>
		<link>http://blog.mrm.org/2008/12/mormon-coffee-tabletalk-friday-december-3rd-in-west-jordan-ut/comment-page-2/#comment-13205</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 07:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mrm.org/?p=1498#comment-13205</guid>
		<description>Aaron,    
  
Not to be contentious, but it appears that you truly do not understand what Mormons refer to as a &quot;Testimony&quot;.   It is much more than a private emotional experience.  To the Latter-day Saint a testimony entails personal revelation directly revealed to the individual through the power of the Holy Ghost who bears witness of the truth or through other means of divine revelation.  
  
A testimony as personal revelation can take many forms whether it be something as dramatic as a visitation from Christ, the ministering of angels, hearing the audible voice of God, being transfigured, being caught up in the spirit (as the apostle Paul would describe it) and transported to heaven, having a miraculous healing of a terminal disease and so forth.  More commonly a Latter-day Saint can receive a testimony of a specific principle of the gospel such as the blessings which come from obeying the law of tithing or the greater spirituality that comes from praying and reading the scriptures on a daily basis.   
  
Latter-day Saints affirm that God speaks not just to prophets but all who are willing to listen to Him.  This is the great blessing of having modern revelation. 
 
Unlike evangelicals, we do not try to muzzle Christ in saying that God cannot speak to mankind in this day and age. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaron,    </p>
<p>Not to be contentious, but it appears that you truly do not understand what Mormons refer to as a &quot;Testimony&quot;.   It is much more than a private emotional experience.  To the Latter-day Saint a testimony entails personal revelation directly revealed to the individual through the power of the Holy Ghost who bears witness of the truth or through other means of divine revelation.  </p>
<p>A testimony as personal revelation can take many forms whether it be something as dramatic as a visitation from Christ, the ministering of angels, hearing the audible voice of God, being transfigured, being caught up in the spirit (as the apostle Paul would describe it) and transported to heaven, having a miraculous healing of a terminal disease and so forth.  More commonly a Latter-day Saint can receive a testimony of a specific principle of the gospel such as the blessings which come from obeying the law of tithing or the greater spirituality that comes from praying and reading the scriptures on a daily basis.   </p>
<p>Latter-day Saints affirm that God speaks not just to prophets but all who are willing to listen to Him.  This is the great blessing of having modern revelation. </p>
<p>Unlike evangelicals, we do not try to muzzle Christ in saying that God cannot speak to mankind in this day and age.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveH</title>
		<link>http://blog.mrm.org/2008/12/mormon-coffee-tabletalk-friday-december-3rd-in-west-jordan-ut/comment-page-2/#comment-13204</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 07:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mrm.org/?p=1498#comment-13204</guid>
		<description>Aaron,   
 
Not to be contentious, but it appears that you truly do not understand what Mormons refer to as a &quot;Testimony&quot;.   It is much more than a private emotional experience.  To the Latter-day Saint a testimony entails personal revelation directly revealed to the individual through the power of the Holy Ghost who bears witness of the truth or through other means of divine revelation. 
 
A testimony as personal revelation can take many forms whether it be something as dramatic as a visitation from Christ, the ministering of angels, hearing the audible voice of God, being transfigured, being caught up in the spirit (as the apostle Paul would describe it) and transported to heaven, having a miraculous healing of a terminal disease and so forth.  More commonly a Latter-day Saint can receive a testimony of a specific principle of the gospel such as the blessings which come from obeying the law of tithing or the greater spirituality that comes from praying and reading the scriptures on a daily basis.  
 
Latter-day Saints affirm that God speaks not just to prophets but all who are willing to listen to Him.  This is the great blessing of having modern revelation. 
 
 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaron,   </p>
<p>Not to be contentious, but it appears that you truly do not understand what Mormons refer to as a &quot;Testimony&quot;.   It is much more than a private emotional experience.  To the Latter-day Saint a testimony entails personal revelation directly revealed to the individual through the power of the Holy Ghost who bears witness of the truth or through other means of divine revelation. </p>
<p>A testimony as personal revelation can take many forms whether it be something as dramatic as a visitation from Christ, the ministering of angels, hearing the audible voice of God, being transfigured, being caught up in the spirit (as the apostle Paul would describe it) and transported to heaven, having a miraculous healing of a terminal disease and so forth.  More commonly a Latter-day Saint can receive a testimony of a specific principle of the gospel such as the blessings which come from obeying the law of tithing or the greater spirituality that comes from praying and reading the scriptures on a daily basis.  </p>
<p>Latter-day Saints affirm that God speaks not just to prophets but all who are willing to listen to Him.  This is the great blessing of having modern revelation.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveH</title>
		<link>http://blog.mrm.org/2008/12/mormon-coffee-tabletalk-friday-december-3rd-in-west-jordan-ut/comment-page-2/#comment-13203</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 07:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.mrm.org/?p=1498#comment-13203</guid>
		<description>Gundek, 
 
It always amazes me how evangelicals are so ready to reject Christ and his messengers. 
 
In the Revelations 11 John reveals in considerable detail the mission of two witnesses (prophets) who will be sent to Jerusalem to preach the Gospel just prior to the Second Coming of Christ.  If you sincerely believe in Jesus Christ and the Bible then would not the words and message of these two divinely appointed individuals be of great worth?   Or will you reject them because what they say does not identically comport with your Protestant interpretation of the scriptures? 
 
 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gundek, </p>
<p>It always amazes me how evangelicals are so ready to reject Christ and his messengers. </p>
<p>In the Revelations 11 John reveals in considerable detail the mission of two witnesses (prophets) who will be sent to Jerusalem to preach the Gospel just prior to the Second Coming of Christ.  If you sincerely believe in Jesus Christ and the Bible then would not the words and message of these two divinely appointed individuals be of great worth?   Or will you reject them because what they say does not identically comport with your Protestant interpretation of the scriptures?</p>
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