Why I’m Not a Mormon
Today’s Top 10 List (from LDS Scripture)
Part 1 of 2

“…king Mosiah had a gift from God…” (current edition); “…king Benjamin had a gift from God…” (1830 edition). This illustrates just one of many substantial changes made to the original Book of Mormon (the original was said to have been revealed and translated by the power of God, see History of the Church 1:54-55). A few additional examples of changes: 1 Ne 13:40 and 1 Ne 11:18 (“Son of” added), 1 Ne 19:20 (5 words added), 1 Ne 20:1 (7 words added).

“Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible.” Mormonism mocks the historicity and accuracy of the Bible, even while claiming it as one of its scriptures.  Joseph Smith claimed “designing and corrupt priests” altered the biblical text, rendering our current Bible untrustworthy and incomplete. But the study of textual criticism reveals that the opposite is true. The Bible has been remarkably preserved.

The Book of Mormon “contains the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ…” However, many essential LDS doctrines of the gospel are not found in the Book. The doctrines of pre-existence, eternal progression, authority of the priesthood, baptism for the dead, celestial marriage, three degrees of glory, men becoming Gods, plurality of Gods (and more) are missing from the Book of Mormon.

“The Gods organized and formed the heavens and the earth” (v.1). Mormonism disagrees with the Bible which, from beginning to end, teaches there is only one true God (Deut 6:4, Rev 1:8). What’s more, God declares, “I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens…God himself that formed the earth and made it;…I am the Lord; and there is none else” (Is 45:12, 18. See Is 43-46).

“…God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity.” The Bible agrees with this teaching (Ps 90:2), but today’s Mormonism does not. Joseph Smith said, “We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity, I will refute that idea, and will take away and do away the veil, so that you may see…he was once a man like us…” (King Follett Discourse, 1844).

To be continued…

About Sharon Lindbloom

Sharon surrendered her life to the Lord Jesus Christ in 1979. Deeply passionate about Truth, Sharon loves serving as a full-time volunteer research associate with Mormonism Research Ministry. Sharon and her husband live in Minnesota.

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48 Responses to Why I’m Not a Mormon
Today’s Top 10 List (from LDS Scripture)
Part 1 of 2

  1. Rick B says:

    What is really sad is, while many Mormons have left as a result of things like this, and many wont become mormons because of things like this. Many LDS dont care, or will have reasons why this is not really a problem.

  2. canuck54 says:

    It almost seems to me that many LDS know of these issues but can’t bring themselves to leave because it’s a good social club or a great place to raise their kids. Eternity is a long time to be wrong.

  3. setfree says:

    Haha, I love it!

  4. Kate says:

    canuck54,
    This comment is so true. I hear this all the time. The church does so much good and they teach moral values. I believe any parent can teach their kids moral values. I also learn moral values at the Christian church that I attend. Why Mormons think they are the only ones who have morals I don’t understand. I’ve met good, decent, morally minded people who aren’t Mormon. What is sad is the fact that morals can’t save you. I’ve often asked “where is Jesus in any of this.” That was my go to question while I was studying the LDS religion before I finally left. Jesus isn’t in any of it. I also wonder if pride contributes to looking the other way and not truly seeking the truth of this stuff. I know fear plays a big role for a lot of people. Fear of losing their family, job, respect in the community. It’s a sad world we live in when we can not stand up for truth because we are afraid of what that will cost us. Some of us would rather take the hit than live the lie.

  5. falcon says:

    OK if some wicked, nasty, deceitful priests corrupted the Biblical text then what wicked, nasty and deceitful scribes corrupted the BoM text. There are countless changes to the first edition of Smith’s tome and several get right at the heart of the meaning of the text, not just grammatical errors.
    Here’s the deal. If someone is looking for an excuse to leave Mormonism, they don’t have to look far. If someone wants to justify staying (in Mormonism) there are all sorts of ready-made alibis available. They’re kookie, but they’ll do.
    Remember Thomas Stuart Ferguson who spent a lot of time and money trying to find some archeological proof for the BoM and finally gave-up concluding that it was all a fraud? He wrote to a friend:
    “Perhaps you and I have been spoofed by Joseph Smith. Now that we have the inside dope—why not spoof a little back and stay aboard? Please consider this letter confidential—for obvious reasons. I want to stay aboard the good ship, Mormonism—for various reasons that I think valid. First, several of my dearly loved family members want desperately to believe and do believe it and they each need it. It does them far more good than harm. Belonging, with my eyes wide open is actually fun… I never get up and bear testimony… You might give my suggestions a trial run.
    (Letter from Thomas Stuart Ferguson to Mr. & Mrs. H.W. Lawrence, dated Feb. 20, 1976)

    So I suppose Ferguson just sort of sat back with intellectual, spiritual and emotional detachment as he went about his business at the wards. It is said that he didn’t give a testimony any more so at least he had some form of integrity. Since his family members were really into the Mormon program he didn’t want to burst their bubble.

  6. Brian says:

    Kate,

    Wonderful insights you’ve shared. Thanks.

    Falcon,

    That is quite a letter you’ve found. Thanks for showing it to us. One of the thoughts in the letter that struck me was: “It does them far more good than harm.” God has told us that as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse. LDS prophets have described the LDS gospel as “a code of laws.” God’s law is good, true, and holy. However, it is like a mirror, revealing our guilt. In is, in effect, an indictment. The LDS people can keep trying, trying, and trying a little bit harder. Which only amounts to trust in self. Unregenerate man is already separated from God. And upon death this separation will simply continue. Forever. In hell.

    “Far more good than harm?” Not so.

  7. falcon says:

    I sort of stumbled across this website. It’s designed to help Mormons who are transitioning out of Mormonism. Those who find themselves in this situation might find the information and videos helpful. I’ll have to leave it to our exMormon posters to judge whether or not something like this would have helped them bridge the gap as they exited Mormonism.
    I must say, I wouldn’t even know where to begin assisting someone who is walking out of the door of Mormonism. I could help them with prayer and encouragement and working through doctrinal issues but the emotional end………..I would say that there’s probably a process much like the grieving process that folks go through when facing loss. That I’ve experienced. But I would think that those who have already made the journey out of Mormonism would be of greatest help.
    Anyway, I think this site is worth considering.

    http://www.ldstransitions.com/

  8. helenlouissmith says:

    Hey, its my turn to do the testimony thingie.

    Here is a nice letter form a ex-Baptist, slash Orthodox Evangelical Christian. 🙂

    BlvdS40
    “Being a convert myself, I don’t think that observation is true. Growing up as a Baptist, attending hundreds of hours of indoctrination, reading thru the bible at home, attending camp meetings yearly, I think I knew the Bible as well or better than most “Christians.” I will never forget the first time as a teenager I spoke up to the pastor against the false doctrine of once saved always save….based on my study of the bible.

    Converts come from all walks of life, with a great deal of diversity in regards to knowledge of the Bible……”

    I did not reference the FORUM (christian) but if it becomes a issue I do have the site for those who are interested.

    Keep smiling, for every Mormon disillusionment, and spiritual detachment we can most likely find a Christian sameie thingie 🙂

  9. falcon says:

    Helen,
    My guess is the person who you quoted was either offended by someone in his Baptist church or he has fallen into serious sin. Probably like the Mormon sameie thingie 🙂

    I don’t account for or try to explain someone’s individual religious experience. As a young man I became disillusioned with the Catholic church and left. Several years later as a result of the witness of some born again Catholics, I came to an understanding of who Jesus is and what He did for me. I understood that I couldn’t do anything to save myself but it was through faith in Christ that I obtained my salvation. Jesus revealed Himself to me and pointed me to His finished work on the cross as securing my salvation through faith in Him. God the Father provided me with the Holy Spirit who indwells me and testifies to my security in Jesus.
    I didn’t reenter the Catholic church as my faith is in Jesus and not some religious organization or institution. Through my faith in Jesus, I join with other believers in the Mystical Body of Christ regardless of their denominational label.
    The bottom line is knowing who Jesus is and what He did on the cross and receiving the gift of eternal life that God freely offers us by faith (in Jesus). There is One God, One Jesus, One Holy Spirit and one Gospel that leads to eternal life.
    Mormonism doesn’t provide just another explanation of the same thing. Mormonism is a different Gospel with a different god and, unfortunately for Mormon, a different outcome.

  10. Rick B says:

    Helen,
    Let me just say, O-goody.
    You found a letter by someone that claims they left the baptist church, Really, that means what?
    I know lots of people, mainly Atheists that were once christians. My brother is the best example. He lead people to the Lord and answered all my questions, Had scripture memorised to the point of entire chapters. He one contests in the Church for his memory of scripture.

    Then one day after about 10 plus years of being a christian, he told me, I no longer believe and gave some stupid excuse. I believe him like so many others simply got mad ata God because they prayed for something, Be it money, a job, a spouse, Ect. They never got what they wanted and then left and claimed they no longer believe in God.

    I also know a women in my church who ran up so much debt with credit cards it was not funny, were talking close to 20,000 thousand. she was a single mom with with kids. She asked my pastor if the church would pay her debt, the pastor said No. My church is less than 200 people and the vast majority are out of work or barly working. so we dont have that kind of money.

    Some friendly little MM’s came along knocked on her door and offered to do yard work for free. Over periods of time they helped her out with money and other such things. No real surprise, she left and became a Mormon. But that also did not last long, a few years at best. Once she converted and was baptised, The help stopped, and so did she.

    One thing I notice though, You and no other LDS, Answer the question of these ten issues, they are serious issues and no answers.

  11. helenlouissmith says:

    Keep smiling, for every Mormon disillusionment and spiritual detachment; we can most likely find a Christian sameie thingie.

    I just find it obviously funny that by quoting someone else’s convictions; it’s all of a sudden seemingly important to this thread that here we have a “Mormon Member” who decides not ever get up and give his testimony and is the ethical thing to do. Good for him/her that does this, but in the same vain we have testimony from those Christians that actually did the work and found Doctrine (grace) that does not meet the so called Christian correctness that he/she was led to believe, just my opinion though.

    I find your interjection of his testimony to be quiet irrelevant since we could go back and forth all day with this kind of non essential rhetoric.

  12. falcon says:

    While I really enjoy human interest stories (I just finished reading a book dealing with the life, times and development of the Beatles) when it comes to spiritual things, I want to know what the person believes.
    That’s really the point of the article that Sharon has posted above. It could be summarized as “What is a person trusting in for eternal life?”
    What’s the definition of eternal life? What is that definition (of eternal life) based on? It isn’t based on someone’s personal religious experience.
    I had a fairly miserable experience in Catholicism growing up. The Church did teach me about God and gave me a moral code but the legalism and heavy sense of guilt imposed by the system of that day were enormously oppressive and emotionally painful. I couldn’t deal with the hypocrisy I saw in the religious legal system that was part of the Church at that time.
    Thankfully I’m over it and can now even tune into Catholic TV or radio programs now and then and extract what I see as basic orthodox truth and dismiss what I think is off the mark. My older brother stayed in the Church and made his course corrections and adjustments along the way and found peace and I would say salvation within the system from which I bolted.
    Jesus is the truth, the way and the life. No one can get to the Father except through faith in Jesus. In order for this to happen a person has to have the right Jesus.
    Someone’s religious experience while valid for them in terms of their personal reality, really isn’t a validation of what is true. What is true can’t even be tested by personal revelation. The only test for what is valid and true concerning spiritual matters is the Word of God.

  13. helenlouissmith says:

    Rick B. nice story,

    Some friendly little MM’s came along knocked on her door and offered to do yard work for free. Over periods of time they helped her out with money and other such things. No real surprise, she left and became a Mormon. But that also did not last long, a few years at best. Once she converted and was baptised, The help stopped, and so did she.

    Apparently you completely misunderstand the FAST OFFERING Fund that is quiet different from tithing money. I know what I talk about and know and understand what the Fast Offering is spent on, so your above irrelevant story clearly does not add up, or ring true. But it is a nice story for those who love agenda driven criticism. Peace and blessings.

  14. falcon says:

    Well Helen,
    I can always tell when we’re getting to you. You really couldn’t handle Thomas Stuart Ferguson’s letter because he searched like crazy for some archeological evidence for the BoM and came up with zero. You’re sitting there waiting and hoping that some day a ton of evidence will emerge that makes the BoM an actual, verifiable history of a real people. Don’t hold your breath.
    As Sharon pointed out in the article above, what appears in the current edition of the BoM isn’t consistent with the original edition. It seems to me that the text has been corrupted and cannot be trusted. Some villainous scribe went and changed Joseph Smith original revelation. Not to worry, Smith did the same thing with his Book of Commandments when he came up with the new and improved Doctrine & Covenants.
    It’s all a matter of how badly you want to believe Mormonism Helen. I’m sure the Mormon church does you some good. It provides a form of structure and meaning for your life and allows you to think you’re hearing from the Mormon god and also provides you with spiritual feelings. It even gives you secret ceremonies, secret passwords to gain entrance into the Mormon heaven with hubby’s assistance and even special garments to wear.
    And there we have it. You’re placing all of your hope and trust in a religious system and prophets whom you yourself question, doubt and dismiss when they say things (past/present) that you don’t agree with.
    As Christians we clothe ourselves with Christ and His righteousness. It is the shed blood of Christ that provides us with the forgiveness of sins and the promise of eternal life. All the chasing about doing religious works isn’t going to get you any closer to God or eternal life Helen.

  15. canuck54 says:

    Kate, I was just thinking that the other day. It’s pride and fear that keeps LDS bound. I try to put myself in their shoes from time to time and wonder how would I react if people out there proved over and over that my beliefs were not doctrinally correct. Denial, anger, fear. I guess it’s kind of like a death.

    canuck

  16. Brian says:

    Very fine testimony you’ve shared with us, Falcon. Thank you!

  17. Brian says:

    Dear Helen,

    You’ve spoken with us about various people’s experiences. I enjoy reading stories from people’s lives. There is something compelling about this kind of thing, isn’t there? Yet, I believe we can get ourselves in trouble if we seek to determine what is true using an experiential basis.

    I believe the basis for determining truth is what God has told us in his word, the Bible. What should be the object of our faith? Should our faith be in a certain religious group or denomination? Or should our faith be in God, his promises, and his faithfulness? I believe it should always be the latter.

    1 John 5:11-13

  18. Rick B says:

    Helen,
    You imply I lied to you, you can say what you want, but I know what happened. You said

    Apparently you completely misunderstand the FAST OFFERING Fund that is quiet different from tithing money.

    I never mentioned those, so dont sit here and tell me I dont understand them. I never mentioned them, I dont know what money or resources this person was given and I dont care. I only know they were a member of my church and left. And I know the reason the gave for leaving.

    Also I notice you cannot answer the question of the topic at hand. Typical Mormon.

  19. f_melo says:

    Falcon, addressing the website you gave us a link to, here are some of my thoughts:
    I´ve been through the website and the first video segment. I´ve had mixed reactions to it. The video ís professionally done and it was very touching because it hit the major points concerning the conflict i´ve been through myself. In that case i think they hit the nail in the head identifying the major issues, doubts, etc. i´ve been through. The material is beautiful, very well done and very educational and i think it is important for pastors to go through it if they want to help people exiting mormonism. Yet i think they should be careful not to try turning pastors into psychologists though, they should focus on doctrinal issues and let the other issues be resolved as the people interact with the congregation. I like how they explain what roles certain beliefs have in the life of a mormon and how they should be addressed, because those are crucial and must be answered if one is to embrace true Christianity. So, so far, amazing job done! I actually just wish there was some version of this material to be distributed for free to mormons, you know, something like a Teacher´s Manual and a Student´s Manual? Because, seriously, do you really think mormons in transition would so readily pay for a material developed by who-knows-who that could be guiding you into another legalistic religion, for all you know? No way, besides, when i was in that phase i was desperately thirsty for answers and i think it´s terrible for you to give a little something of water and then demand people to buy the rest if they want. I´m not saying that they shouldn´t be paid for the work they did though, but honestly,

  20. f_melo says:

    with all you have available on the internet for free… i personally wouldn´t buy anything especially from people i didn´t know if i could trust and that´s considering how my confidence in religion was completely destroyed. Now that i´ve been through most of that turmoil i´ve been to a Baptist Church with a friend and plan to visit other churches as well to try to see if i can actually identify myself with a church/denomination again, that also because it´s hard to imagine myself having to deal with some of the same situations i had before such as being full of callings and not ever resting on sundays.

    The one thing i feel it´s missing is that i don´t see them addressing people who simply throw God out with mormonism, they just make mention of it. What i mean by that is that when i was during the turmoil of finding out how i´d been lied to and manipulated i was also in crisis concerning God and Jesus because i didn´t know who they were anymore, and my epistemology was prayer and the mystical experiences i had throught the counterfeit holy spirit. It took me a very long time and hours of research to put my feet back on the ground and start figuring out how i should understand the world and upon what basis should i judge what is true and real and what is not. Maybe they´ll correctly cover that in their material, but i think it´s extremely important for them to address this in a solid, historic and scientific way, since it is by facts gathered from archeology, genetics, historical documents, etc. that mormonism is proven false regardless of you own spiritual experiences, right? That search of mine was what laid down the foundation for my new found

  21. f_melo says:

    belief in Jesus, because i wanted truth and not more wishy-washy emotion-driven i know this is true because i´ve had a life change, or because God gave me a beautiful family, etc. Any religion or organization can provide a life-change. Online dating websites can help you find the one for you, etc. So, what do i need Jesus for, anyways? That´s what i mean. I now understand what is fact, what isn´t, what has to be taken by faith, what doesn´t have to and i can somewhat defend that, i said somewhat because i still have much, much study to do, not that you have to become a theologian to believe in and worship Christ, but after being deceived like that you have to be sure of a few things so that you won´t end up with the same problems, doubts, questions all over again later down the road, and people won´t be able to accuse you of needing religion to fill up some psychological need or something to that effect.
    Well, those are my first thoughts, maybe if they make more of their material available i´ll be able to get a better perspective on it.

  22. f_melo says:

    Helen said
    “I find your interjection of his testimony to be quiet irrelevant since we could go back and forth all day with this kind of non essential rhetoric.”

    Ok, Helen, please, don´t insult my intelligence here. The case Falcon cite is about a man who failed to find archeological evidence for the BoM, the one you cite was of a random Christian´s different opinion on a doctrinal issue.

    You´re talking apples and oranges here. If you wanted to discredit Falcon´s story and you´d have to provide us a Christian testifying that he found any archeological evidence which would unavoidably lead to the conclusion that the Bible is false.

    While the Bible has its many problems and difficulties that have been addressed for almost two thousand years now, none definitive enough to invalidate any one book of it or the work as a whole the Book of Mormon has absolutely nothing in favor of it. It´s nothing more than a 19 century work, and provides zero archeological evidence, and your church that repeats so much the words “true” and “truths” doesn´t seem to care at all to substantiate the cornerstone of you religion. That´s where Falcon was building upon.

    Now if we´re going to talk about differences of opinion regarding doctrine, whatever, that doesn´t prove the Bible false, or Christianity false, let alone proves mormonism´s theology to be anywhere close to the truth.

  23. f_melo says:

    What i´ve observed and what i´ve lived myself concerning those questions is that Mormons are kept within the limits delineated by the CES(Church Educational System). We come back to a point we were discussing a long time ago in this blog, that mormons don´t study the Bible, they study the manuals developed by the church that chooses which verses are going to be considered and how they should be interpreted. They also determine what will be thought about and discussed during classes throughout the week and on sundays. At home we would read full chapters of the Book of Mormon but the points discussed would always be the same points made in sunday school lessons, or conference talks. Few are the ones who dare to consider there´s much to be learned outside the cage the scriptures are locked up in, especially considering how the mormon prophets take precedence over them making sure the members understand that the scriptures are a good reference work but only authoritative as they support the current administration, or to be used as illustrations to topics taught in talks. Other than that when those issues are brought up, what i hear is that those things are not important to your salvation, and that regardless, by knowing the BoM is true through a spiritual experience all is well in Zion and we all shall be saved, and if we are wrong, God will consider that you were deceived and will still regard your faithfulness and dedication to a lie a virtue that should be honored and you´ll be saved after all.

  24. falcon says:

    Thanks fmelo.
    I always enjoy your personal perspective and the insights you have regarding your spiritual walk. Most helpful in the past, have been our discussions regarding your “spiritual experiences” while in Mormonism. I’m afraid this is what Mormons base their faith on. They “know” something based on an emotional feeling that they suppose is God speaking to them, revealing things to them, guiding and confirming His presence in their lives. I think this is perhaps the most difficult thing for a Mormon to wrap their brain around; the idea that these spiritual experiences and feelings may be something other than God speaking to them.
    Mormons need to go to the next level and ask themselves, “What are these spiritual experiences, (the feelings, knowing, sensing) actually confirming?” They may never consider the possibility that these experiences are actually emanating from another source.
    The whole process that the MM take a prospect through, as has been pointed out by Mike R., is to generate feelings in a prospect. The questions that are asked are leading questions and often predicated on the word “feel”. It’s a psychological ploy to set-up the burning in the bosom that is said to confirm the BoM as a true, factual “revelation” of actual human events. Is there any evidence to support the “feeling”. No! Then the burning in the bosom experience has a source other than God.
    I remember a former poster here (an exMo) discussed how he finally figured out that he was getting those same feelings about a variety of things many of which had nothing to do with spiritual matters. It was a kind of “what’s up?” insight.
    I personally do something that a Mormon would never consider. I keep my feelings separate from the foundation on which I build my faith in Jesus.

  25. helenlouissmith says:

    Oh Falcon, never one to miss mentioning the secret coded password, my Mormon panties. Then there is Louis, who can not like old Louis who sits every Sunday next to me, yet never gets up to bare his testimony, but loves the Church and me 🙂

    Never could understand “Easy GRACE”, yet again I can see how it tickles the ears of my blessed Christian friends, no work, one time repentance and if you opt out of Baptism, it’s OK, since it really is not essential.

    Great plan and really great doctrine for the Easy Chair Recliner types. 🙂

  26. Mike R says:

    #6 It does’nt get much serious than this. This is why I could never be a Mormon.
    We have scripture warning us of future false prophets coming . We have a man who
    claims to be prophet who has heard from God , his prophet proclaims that , ” we have
    imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity “. We learned this great
    truth via Psalms 90:2 and Moroni 8:18 and other scriptures , but we learned wrong !
    This whole scenario is disturbing , especially when considered in the light of what
    early christians experienced — 2 Cor.11:3-4 ; 2 Pt.2:1 . No wonder Jesus warned us
    of future false prophets. It’s enlightening to realize that this thread of being spiritually
    manipulated by a false prophet is so plain to understand that even a Mormon apostle
    has rightly stated : ” …..false prophets lead people astray ; men choose , at the peril of
    their salvation , the prophets whom they follow . ” I have tested [ Gal. 1:8-9 ; 2Jn1:9
    1Jn 4:1 ; Acts 17:11 ] the prophets of Mormonism and found them to be unreliable to relay
    spiritual truth from God on issues that affect my salvation . All their stressing of the need
    to live a moral lifestyle cannot make up for being wrong on truths about God, and number 6
    on the thread is prime example of this error , an error that can lead to an eternity of regret
    for those follow a false prophet .

  27. helenlouissmith says:

    For f_melo, Falcon and my friend Rick B.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KWGzSSCgoo

    f_melo stated: ” not that you have to become a theologian to believe in and worship Christ, but after being deceived like that you have to be sure of a few things so that you won´t end up with the same problems, doubts, questions all over again later down the road, and people won´t be able to accuse you of needing religion to fill up some psychological need or something to that effect.”

    Melo, I pray you find peace, find the truth your seeking. Faith in Jesus Christ should always be primary in any search that will eventually bring you to your own personal happiness. Blessings.

  28. Mike R says:

    Falcon, you delineated the error that Mormon Missionaries resort to in presenting
    their religion to investigators , namely , overly stressing the need to rely on a feeling
    to varify the truth of Mormonism . It sure would nice if every investigator would avail
    themselves of some of the information from MRM before they take the Missionary
    lessons . I remember a meeting many years ago where I met with two nice young men
    and proceeded to go thru their flip chart presentation , I experienced their sales techniques.
    I can’t help wondering how these investigators would feel if they knew before their baptism
    just how much they would have to do in order to gain and keep God’s favor in order to receive
    eternal life ? The “ladder” of requirements in the complex Mormon gospel that a person must
    climb towards gaining eternal life are truely imposing , and have caused many a Mormon to
    feel like a hampster on the exercise wheel . The Bible talks about a better way , it’s not a
    elaborate system of “obligations”and “requirements” created by religious leaders who
    define loyalty to them to be loyalty to God . Rather , the better way is a person , this person
    is fully capable to save to the uttermost everyone who surrenders their will to Him, no Temple
    no prophet required —Heb :25

  29. helenlouissmith says:

    “The Book of Mormon “contains the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ…”

    Why does this seem to surprise anyone, a truthful statement that is what? denied, why? a lie?
    It contains the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ (see D&C 20:9; 42:12; 135:3).

    Let me ask, does not the BOM completely explain the Atonement of Christ? Chapters 2 and 9 of 2 Nephi, Mosiah 15, and chapters 34 and 42 of Alma. Is this not the Gospel of Christ, Salvation by Faith in Christ as Lord and Savior?

    According to 1 Nephi 13:24, the Bible in its pristine state also contained the fulness of the gospel. D&C 42:12

    Christians lost the fulness through apostate teachings that even the Bible foretold.

    Book of Mormon equates the “fulness of the gospel” with coming “to the knowledge of the true Messiah” (1 Nephi 10:14; 15:13-14; cf. 3 Nephi 20:30-31; D&C 19:27).

  30. falcon says:

    Ya Helen,
    The recliner chair, easy grace Christian.
    Every time you write you expose more of your ignorance about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You imagine that if you just work your sacred underwear off to the threads you can become a goddess.
    Is grace “easy”? Is grace “cheap”?
    Grace certainly isn’t cheap since it cost God His only Begotten Son to pay the price for our sins. “Easy”? Well it depends on what you mean by “easy”. God provides grace with abundance. It’s His to give. He didn’t mean for it to be difficult. Leading the Christian life can certainly be challenging. But that’s why God supplies us with an abundance of grace. I don’t know that we “earn” grace. It’s a gift.
    If we want to break it down there is sanctifying grace and actual grace. Sanctifying grace is the grace that God offers us for salvation. We are sanctified based on our faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross. Actual grace is the grace God provides us in leading the Christian life; over-coming the challenges we face.
    You are really stuck on this Mormon idea that you have to “work” to earn your reward. I can see why since you mistakenly think that you can turn yourself into a goddess if you just do enough of the Mormon proscribed program. You’re trapped Helen. You’re trapped in an endless quest to get yourself cleaned up enough to earn goddess status.
    Sounds like you’re the hard driver in your family for the Mormon god program. Poor Louis can’t even work up a testimony. Hopefully you didn’t marry a Mormon slug who isn’t pulling his weight on the man-to-god program. I imagine this is a problem for Mormon women whose husbands aren’t that keen on the program.

  31. falcon says:

    So Helen, is Louis doing enough to become a god? Will he be available with the secret password to bring you to life in the resurrection? Will Louis have done enough so that Joseph Smith will allow him into the Celestial Kingdom? Will Louis be there to pull you through the veil?
    Helen, does Louis have all the proper boxes checked-off to assure you that he will become a god? Is Louis really god material Helen? Does Louis sin? If he does, does he commit the same sin over again? Is Louis as far along in his quest to become a god as say some of the other men in your ward? Have you compared him to them?
    Louis won’t even get up and bear his testimony. This is not a good sign Helen. Are you really sure he loves the LDS church like you say he does?
    You see Helen, what counts isn’t how much Louis loves you or certainly not how much he loves the LDS church. What counts is that Louis knows who Jesus is, that Louis has committed himself to the authentic Jesus; the one who can provide salvation for him and that Louis loves Jesus more than you and certainly more than the LDS church.
    Helen, Louis can’t save you. He can’t resurrect you. Having your secret name, the password, won’t cut it.
    Louis needs to come to a place in his life where He knows who Jesus is; not the Mormon Jesus who is little more than another god, a valiant older brother. That Mormon Jesus won’t provide the gift of eternal life for Louis because the Mormon Jesus doesn’t exist.
    The testimony that Louis should be ready to bear is that Jesus is God incarnate. That Louis has placed his faith in the real Jesus.

  32. Rick B says:

    Helen,
    I watched the video.
    The only two things I dont agree with are, First it is the book of Revelation. Everyone adds and (S) It is a single revelation, Not Revelation(S). Big deal to me, might not be to others. I figure it’s are public schools at work, adults cant read.

    The second thing is, It is not the mormon jesus that will save us since the mormon jesus is a false jesus and the founder is satan who used JS who is a false prophet.

  33. helenlouissmith says:

    Easy, sooooooo my good friend, repent only once and all is well, easy because to sin again ain’t a big deal. After all a profession of Faith could easily be made while reclining in you favorite easy chair.

    Now wouldn’t it be a lot more civil if you quit with the underwear and coded password thingie.
    How about loosing most of your sarcasm and act like a responsible Christian, what ya think darlin.

  34. falcon says:

    Helen,
    Do we have to call you on your lack of civility? Rick’s got a list if you want to play the finger pointing game. And what’s the point of your slamming someone and then attaching a smiley button to it? I believe that’s known as “taunting”. So lose your attitude Helen. Your the one who made fun of your underwear Helen. If you don’t want someone to comment on it then don’t bring it up. Seems you have them in a real knot today.
    So how many times do you want to repent Helen? Talk to me about the Mormon doctrine regarding committing a sin and then seeking forgiveness for it and then committing that sin again.
    You know nothing about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If we walk in the light as He is in the light we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus (continually) cleanses us from unrighteousness. Who doesn’t sin? We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. Who doesn’t ask for forgiveness?
    You’re dealing with a different Gospel Helen. You suppose you’re going to become a goddess and that’s the foundation of the Mormon religion. There’s a Mormon god, Jesus, Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit and plan of salvation. It bears absolutely no resemblance to what God reveals in the Bible.
    You seem to really be stuck on the idea that Christian are into licentiousness as a result of God’s grace.
    I know this won’t penetrate the Mormon cloud surrounding your thinking process but here’s what the apostle Paul says, “What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!” (Romans 6:15)
    Helen if you were born again you would have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit assisting you to understand.

  35. Mike R says:

    Falcon , you touched on something here that I’ve thought about for sometime now .
    It concerns the plight of those Mormon wives who are faced with the dilemma of
    having a husband who is not committed enough to the Church . I remember
    reading many years ago how a Mormon woman has a tougher road to hoe when
    this is the case . The stress that these women can experience in trying to do all they
    can to see that their husband’s get their family intact to heaven is elevated when the
    husband is’nt doing all that is required of him by the Church . Perhaps these husbands
    found some information on Mormonism that caused them to doubt it’s authoritative
    claims , so they just go thru the motions with living their reigion etc. This can cause
    the wife to turn her anger on the source of her husband’s doubt — those responsible for
    the information he read . Just as a mother grizzly bear turns her wrath on whatever she
    considers a threat to her cubs, so too the Mormon wife turns on whoever she feels has
    made her husband not able to get her and the children in tact as a family unit to the highest
    heaven . This may possibly explain the attitude ( and sarcasm ) of Helen . Information
    offered by ministries like this one pose a threat to a Mormon husband so out comes
    the grizzly in the wife . Food for thought .

  36. Kate says:

    Mormons have been taught that Christians take the “easy” road. That Christians reject Mormonism because Mormonism is just too hard to live. Repent once they say and you never have to repent again! This is so not true. I ask the Lord to forgive me every day. I am a sinner and I am not perfect. I need his forgiveness every day. I listen to my Pastor as he is speaking in prayer, asking God to forgive us of our sins. Never have I heard or been told from Christians that I can repent once and never have to repent again! Sin is a big deal to a Christian. We do have the knowledge that no matter how badly we screw up, through the Atonement of Christ we can be forgiven. There is no sin too great for Jesus to take care of, so we put our total trust in HIM not some man. Mormons are so brainwashed about Christians because of the teachings of the LDS church. I know this. I was once brainwashed into thinking Christians were less than because they didn’t “work” for their Salvation. You have to do your part you know, or you will not have Salvation.

    f_melo,
    Thanks for your comments. I too went through what you have described. You mentioned trying out different churches to find a fit for you. That is great. I have a hard time with “churches” myself. I don’t trust organized religion at all because of my past in Mormonism. I’m attending a non denominational Christian church. One thing that I have come to realize is that it’s not about a “church.” We think that it is because of the LDS mantra…”I know THIS CHURCH is true.” It was all about the LDS Church, not God.

  37. Rick B says:

    Helen, You and all other LDS really need to start reading the Bible and stop assuming you know what it says when you in fact show your lack of Bible knowledge when ever you open your mouth.

    You claim Grace is cheap and easy. As Falcon pointed out, Grace is not cheap, It Cost God His Son.
    Then it’s not a matter of just saying, I am sorry, Please forgive me. Great thats done I am saved, now I can go out and kill, steal, do drugs, etc.

    The Bible says lots of things, Like we are Saved BY GRACE, NOT OF WORKS, lest anyone should boast.

    I can see mormons skipping their testamonys for a boastamony. I did this and that, Another mormon says, Thats ALL you did, well I can beat that. We also see this verse,

    1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    Notice it starts off saying. IF WE CONFESS OUR SINS, We do this daily, and we all sin. And according to this verse, IF WE CONFESS OUR SINS, Then HE , who is (HE?) God is (HE). He will forgive our sins. This implys that if we dont confess, we will not be forgiven. What a bummer, I must confess daily, seems sad that according to you I dont need to do that, But I must do that.

  38. falcon says:

    Mike R.
    What a plight a Mormon woman has in having to depend on her husband to make the grade so he can call her secret name, resurrect her from the dead and pull her through the veil. As Christians we put our total trust and confidence in the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross. There’s a glaring contrast here, isn’t there? Should someone, in this case a Mormon woman, put her trust and confidence in her husband to do the proper Mormon program; to do enough, so that he can qualify to be a god and secure her place for her?
    I’m wondering how many Mormon men are in the future god flight path? I’m guessing not all that many in relation to the number of men on the Mormon membership rolls.
    What a heart breaking tragedy all of this is. Mormons settle for so much less in this world and gain absolutely nothing in the next because of their false belief system.
    Before she shuts her eyes for the last time, a Mormon woman would have to wonder if her husband had done enough to resurrect her stone, cold body. As Christians, we never have to wonder if Jesus did enough. We depend solely on Him as our Blessed Hope.

  39. f_melo says:

    What completely baffles me in Helen´s responses to the Doctrine of Salvation by Grace is that Mormons are quick to jump and scream that they´re being misrepresented, but apparently she feels no guilt in showing herself to be fully ignorant of Christianity´s doctrines, and of the Bible itself.
    So, Helen, should i start crying because you´re misrepresenting Christianity and start asking questions such as “why are you attacking my religion, go do something productive instead”? I mean, should i react like a mormon and keep dodging the questions while always changing my story as the discussion progresses? Well, that´s one of the biggest differences i´ve seen between Christians and Mormons in this blog.

    Yet, i thank you for your words. I´ve found Jesus and He´s the only God there is and that there will ever be. The universe revolves around Him and not around me and eternal families and i pray God will open your eyes when He chooses to do so so that he´ll deliver you from the false, empty man-worship that you practice to a true worshiping of God. Jesus said in John 4:23-24 “But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth”

  40. f_melo says:

    Falcon, the spiritual aspect of the mormon life is indeed very difficult to deal with. To live with the guidance of the “spirit” is like being a Jedi, minus the cool fighting skills and, of course, the lightsabers… What i mean is that you live your everyday in the expectation to receive guidance from that spirit, and you know what, it comes! And you just have to trust it because it comes at the very moment you need it. I´ve touched many peoples lives through that spirit because of my faith in it, since when the right moment came the exact words i had to say came to my mind and i could see clearly people´s reactions to my words and i could feel this powerful feeling of peace and love filling the place up and getting everybody excited to go out, share the gospel, change their lives, repent of their sins, etc. But you know what else? It didn´t last for five minutes. It dissipated as fast as it had shown its presence. Also as i gave blessings i could swear i was taken over by the “holy ghost” since the words just flowed out of my mouth, and i felt some sort of energy also flowing through my body towards the person being blessed. But you know what? It didn´t matter how worthy i was, i never healed anyone. So, that´s the true power behind mormonism, and i´m confident that´s what closes some of the faithful mormon´s eyes to the truth and the deception.

    That´s what Jesus called wolves in sheep´s clothing. They are so good at imitating God that if you don´t know the Word of God you´ll end up believing them. See 1 Corinthians 11:13

  41. f_melo says:

    I´m sorry, 2 Corinthians 11:13

    😀

  42. f_melo says:

    Kate, i agree with you 100%.

    I don´t care to join any church in particular but i still need a true Christian baptism, and i would like to be part of a community of believers, and hopefully mature believers. What i´m careful though is to avoid falling into the same things as before, you know, i need to avoid moralistic therapeutic deism which is what´ve been seeing the most out there. One sermon i attended the pastor was talking about how it was a sin to not have a friend… my goodness, give me a break. Or taking Old Testament prophecies to Israel and applying them to the people there. That´s not that far from what mormonism does, and that scares me, so, i´m being veeeery careful not to get involved into the same things again.

  43. f_melo says:

    Helen, i watched the video. You know what saddens me the most about it? That seeing you can´t see. Mormonism is in favor of a New World Order, but one in which they will be the rulers of the world. You believe one day your church will rule the world during the millenium, after the second coming of your arian supremacist Christ. Wasn´t Joseph Smith crowned King of the earth? Didn´t he organize a secret coucil of fifty men whose purpose was to establish the political kingdom of god on earth? Isn´t that why the mormon church has such an obscene amount of money in its coffers, among many, many other things such as huge amounts of land? Oh, btw, how is the building of the new jerusalem going?

    And yet they have the courage to call it a church.

    You´ve probably also heard about the United Order, which is nothing more then communism. And then i have to watch your sheer ingenuity as you post a link to a video that criticizes that kind of control and tyranny your church would impose if it had the means to(it already tried it in the past, but it didn´t work). Also, let´s see how a mormon president does and if he really won´t be subject to the brethren after all, and won´t favor the mormon brotherhood above others of other faiths the way it happens in Utah.

    I also don´t appreciate the scare tactics of the video. Are you born again out of a fear of hell?Not at all. I also have to ask, how is your church doing when it comes to those sins the video mentioned? I´ve lived around mormons my whole life and i know that they as sinners are just as much part of the problem as others.

  44. falcon says:

    fmelo,
    I really appreciate your posts. I’ve been especially interested in your revelations concerning the spiritual dynamics you experienced while a Mormon. I’m convinced this is the “hook” that keeps many Mormons in the program. What they don’t understand is that there are other sources for spiritual feelings and manifestations other than the Spirit of God. The most obvious is the counterfeit spirit of the enemy which lurks about. Another is less obvious but just as real and that is the soul of man.
    What Mormons fail to realize is that all sorts of religious folks invoke and experience a form of “spirit”. Animists are particularly adept at this as are mediums that traffic in the occult. Of course there’s also just plain huksterism practiced by so called psychics.
    But Mormons believe they are experiencing a move of God in their lives and that He’s providing guidance and revelation.
    I don’t know how the light bulb went on with you that something wasn’t right seeing that you were definitely into the Mormon spiritual trap. Many people would have been so turned-off by the discovery that they would have turned totally against any form of religion.
    All I can say is that God must have some special plans for you to be a witness to His Son Jesus Christ. You’ve got an experiential base and insights that are truly unique.

  45. f_melo says:

    Falcon, i´m glad to help!

    As for the light bulb going on, it was a bunch of things working together that culminated in my de-conversion. As i´ve shared with you in the past, those spiritual experiences tend to become more and more difficult to have. I´ve read people comparing it to drugs, once the weak ones stop having the impact they had before you have to start taking stronger ones. Also i kept on having impressions all the time and the more they came more subjective and more confusing they became, and for some reason they affected me emotionally, and the frequency of those experiences got me very tired and stressed out emotionally especially because each one was a struggle to try to figure out what to do with it. In my mission when i had a spiritual impression i´d be like “does that mean i should talk to this person, or to that person, or that i should do this…” and sometimes i felt it meant that i should talk to a person, but sometimes i would hesitate and the person would disappear and i would feel guilty for not acting promptly on it and missing the opportunity that that person might not ever have again. You hear over and over again this idea that when you don´t obey the spirit more difficult it is to receive its guidance and vice-versa. All of that was dismystified later, but not without pain, though. That went on until i got to a point i was so confused that i just didn´t want that influence with me anymore, and because of that i stopped reading the Book of Mormon because it made me have those feelings, which were not good and peaceful anymore, it´s not something i ever want to feel again.

  46. falcon says:

    fmelo,
    I know that you know, that what you were dealing with was a spirit of confusion. I know it’s difficult for active, engaged Mormons to believe this but the spirit driving the feelings associated with the BoM isn’t the Spirit of God. Mormons would only have to look at what goes on within the New Age Movement and the cults of eastern mysticism and the occult to see that it’s the same spirit driving Mormonism. It’s hard for Mormons to wrap their brains around this because they are trying to be moral, sincere, devout and they are feeling something. And think of it, there is prayer and rituals and witnessing, doing callings and the names Havenly Father, Jesus, Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit. It all feels very religious and spiritual.
    Mormons may start questioning based on several things. It could be finding out information about the history of Mormonism and Joseph Smith that had been hidden from them. It could be a trip through the temple that had a bad effect on them. It may be that the culture of the Mormon religion and the grind of the Mormon system that finally wears them out.
    None-the-less there’s always social and familial attachments that keep a strangle hold on some who remain quiet and maybe frightened or cynical.

  47. Kate says:

    f_melo,
    “I don´t care to join any church in particular but i still need a true Christian baptism, and i would like to be part of a community of believers, and hopefully mature believers.”

    This is how I feel too. I have found that in the church I attend. I haven’t been baptized yet, but plan to. There are only 2 Christian churches where I live. I haven’t attended the other one because I am really happy with the Pastor of this church and he was once LDS. In fact, I think most of the congregation was at one time LDS. That really helps me. I always have someone to talk to that has been through a similar experience with Mormonism. I hope you too can find a place where you feel comfortable.

  48. Mike R says:

    Kate, F-melo ,

    God Bless you in serving the King of kings and Lord of lords .

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