How to Spend Eternity With Heavenly Father

I stumbled across a pro-Mormon YouTube channel (a Vlog) called inZionTV. On January 6th (2012) inZionTV posted a video (embedded below) in which two Mormon missionaries answer the question, “What do we need to do to live with Heavenly Father after we die?”

The 10 minute and 40 second video provides a pretty detailed answer from the missionaries as well as from the man making the video. This is how it goes:

0:25-1:39 Elder M explains people must have faith in God, repent, forsake and confess sins to God, get baptized, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. He says, “Those are the four basic, essential things in which we need to do.”

1:39-2:19 Elder B recaps the same four essentials and adds one more: “Enduring to the end.”

2:19-5:00 Elder M states, “That enduring to the end includes commandments in which God has given us.” For the next few minutes both elders list some of those commandments (“There are many of them.”), beginning with the Ten Commandments then moving into things like the Word of Wisdom, the Law of Chastity, pure thoughts and actions, the Law of Tithing, keeping the Sabbath day holy, etc.

5:00-8:15 inZionTV asks what will happen if someone doesn’t keep one of those commandments. For the next few minutes all three men discuss the resulting consequence of missed blessings. They also talk about blessings that will be obtained by keeping specific commandments.

8:15-9:44 inZionTV thanks the elders and provides a recap of the things people need to do to live with Heavenly Father after they die (i.e., have faith, repent, get baptized, follow God’s commandments and endure to the end).

9:44-10:13 inZionTV explains what happens if people fail to “endure to the end” in keeping the commandments. He says, ““If we don’t follow all the commandments there’s no guarantee of what’s going to happen to us.” However, he explains, if people try really hard but still fail due to weakness, “I know the atonement of Jesus Christ will kick in and help us actually get that passage to a better place.” The elders agree.

10:13-10:40 inZionTV bears a testimony of the Mormon Church and the Book of Mormon and thanks the elders one last time.

I’ve provided this detailed timeline of the video for this reason: In the 10 minutes and 40 seconds dedicated to discussing how to be saved (in the celestial kingdom), approximately eight of those minutes are given to a discussion of the necessary element of keeping the commandments. Very little is said about faith; even less is said about Jesus. The discussion in this video demonstrates the heart of Mormonism’s plan of salvation: “Based on personal worthiness, we may through His grace have the glorious opportunity of entering back into the presence of God” (Quentin L. Cook, “We Follow Jesus Christ,” Ensign, May 2010, 84. Emphasis mine.).

This is so different from the answer we find in the Bible. When the apostle Paul was in jail in Philippi, he and his companion were asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household” (Acts 16:30-31). Jesus is the focus of the biblical answer.

The Mormon video is an accurate presentation of the focus of Mormonism and agrees perfectly with Mormon Prophet Joseph F. Smith’s declaration in General Conference in 1915:

“I do not believe that a man is saved in this life by believing, or professing to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, but that he must endure to the end and keep the commandments that are given.” (Joseph F. Smith, Conference Reports, April 1915, 119)

About Sharon Lindbloom

Sharon surrendered her life to the Lord Jesus Christ in 1979. Deeply passionate about Truth, Sharon loves serving as a full-time volunteer research associate with Mormonism Research Ministry. Sharon and her husband live in Minnesota.

This entry was posted in Salvation, Worthiness and tagged , , . Bookmark the permalink.

25 Responses to How to Spend Eternity With Heavenly Father

  1. falcon says:

    I can see the reasoning of the boys here. It makes sense that you have to be really good to earn your reward. That has an appeal especially in Mormonism where the folks are trying to morph into gods. You don’t get something for nothing and wickedness and licentious living will not result in a reward of becoming a god. There’s the “nut” of the argument. You lose your reward. You haven’t transformed yourself into a god.
    Hold on though; if you sin because of “weakness” then that’s your escape clause. Stand before Christ and claim a proclivity to sin that you can’t control. Someone could claim an addiction that drives them to do sinful acts. Thus Jesus will then provide for you the necessary “grace” that will transform you into a god. Never let it escape notice that becoming a god is the goal of the Mormon religion. If someone says, “I’m not interested in becoming a god.” then the hook is out of their mouths. They can settle for a lesser reward. No godhood, but it’s not for everyone right?
    This is a performance based religion. It is legalism 101. Actually there are Christian religions caught in the same trap albeit for different reasons. The results of this type of religion is first and foremost no peace with God. You can never be good enough. You are always unsure of your status before God. Members of these groups are in a constant state of anxiety regarding whether or not they’ve done enough or if they have slipped from grace. The suppressive environment often has the effective of actually increasing sin among the members. It’s secretive and often quite nasty stuff.
    Make no mistake, in Mormonism the goal of leadership is to control the people through fear and intimidation.

  2. falcon says:

    Now let me say I have no argument with the boys here. They are explaining Mormonism not Christianity. I’d say it sounds like a pretty accurate portrayal of Mormonism; it’s expectations and formula for success within the Mormon system. Mormonism is a system that says if men follow a prescribed set of “works”, they can become gods. That’s why Mormons are so hot on the Mormon church as an institution and why they run about with their hair on fire if someone ‘LEAVES THE CHURCH”. It provides the requisite structure leading to a defined outcome; deification.
    My argument with the boys is whether or not this religious system is a restoration of first century Christianity. In-other-words, is this what the disciples of Jesus in the early Church were preaching? I can’t find Mormonism anywhere in the NT nor in the writing of the Church Fathers. I can’t even find it in the most common heresies of the time. It can’t even be found in the BoM.
    So there’s the problem. Is Mormonism the true Gospel of Jesus Christ? Mormonism came about because Joseph Smith and those who followed him in leadership positions said they had it revealed to them. Mormons say they know it’s true because they prayed about it and got a confirming feeling which is interpreted as God having spoken to them. Actually they pray about the BoM which in its original form is quite different then the current edition. But wait, that’s because the revelation is progressive and it’s subject to change.
    For my money I’m going with what is revealed in the Bible regarding the nature of God, the nature of man, God’s mercy, love and grace, and finally the role of repentance, faith and victory over sin in the salvation of believers.

  3. Mike R says:

    You heart has to go to these two young men . They need Jesus. I hesitate taking what they say
    as the authentic teachings of the Church because they are not apostles . They were in full
    missionary mode at the start as was seen when Elder M listed the requirements , but then
    Elder B had to remind their audience that Elder M had’nt actually given all of what is necessary
    to get to heaven and be with H.F. This sort of reminded me of how it practically takes an act of
    Congress to get Missionaries to admit to some of the “unique” doctrines of the religion.
    The Mormon “plan of salvation” is called a system , and it’s chock full of laws , rules,
    commands , all endorsed by Mormon apostles and all designed to make it possible for
    Mormon males to become Gods and be worshiped as such one day. It essential that a
    Mormon keep in constant contact with Church activities and Conferences as a extended lapse
    in connection with such can result in them not being abreast of the new gospel truths , the new
    “gospel laws”, the new spiritual counsel which are now deemed necessary to be right with God
    and eventually allow a person to get to His presence . Mormon authorities have since 1830
    issued a vacillating code of such “truths” . In doing so they have succumbed to the same
    behavior as some Jewish leaders did in Jesus’ time ,they’ve piled what amounts to their own ideas
    on top of God’s instructions and then enforced it with their authority. THEY DECIDED what
    was necessary: ” some Jewish leaders made many unnecessary rules about the Sabbath. They
    decided…”[G.P. p160]

  4. Rick B says:

    Mike R said

    I hesitate taking what they say
    as the authentic teachings of the Church because they are not apostles .

    This is a problem Mike, and here is why. If the Missionaries are being sent out by the Church, then they should now and be teaching “authentic” Doctrines of the Church, Other wise, why send out someone who has no clue what the “authentic” Teachings are? But then we find serious confusion even from Prophets and presidents who cannot agree. If these guys cannot get it correct why should I trust them to be bringing me the truth?

  5. falcon says:

    So are these lads giving an adequate picture of what is necessary within Mormonism to be successful. That’s really what this is about, being successful in the Mormon system. What they don’t mention is that this isn’t a poor man’s religion when it comes to reaching the highest level of success. A Mormon has to be able to come up with 10% of their income just to be eligible to get into the temple to do the necessary work to become a god. So if a family of four is earning say $24, 000 a year, the chances of them being able to tithe $2,400 is pretty remote.
    I live in the midwest and Mormonism is barely a blip on the radar screen around here. There are two Mormon churches in two different cities. The closest Mormon temple is an hour and a half away. So in order for a Mormon to get the temple work done, they need to be in a financial position to do it. Just the price of gas alone will put some of these folks out of the running.
    When a Christian comes to Christ in faith, that’s the end of it as far as their salvation is concerned. There is nothing else to add to it.

  6. Mike R says:

    Rick, you made a good point. What I tried to say was that when I see how the first Missionary
    did’nt give the whole list of “requirements” , that caused me to remember some experiences I
    had with Mormon Missionaries. Sure their lessons are approved by their leaders but there times
    when I had asked them some very important questions on Mormon doctrine , and what I got
    in way of a response was not the whole story etc. These young men were all respectful (except
    one) and I treated them with respect . My heart goes out to them , to put all the effort that they
    do into preaching a counterfeit gospel is really sad.

  7. falcon says:

    Mike,
    You’re right! Who do these boys speak for? Is what they say merely their opinion on what Mormonism teaches and requires of members? The more liberal Mormons have a way of nuancing Mormon teaching to the point where you begin to wonder what religion they are apart of. It’s a way of finding a way to stay in the church without having to buy into the religion of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.
    The more liberal Mormons cut themselves a lot of slack to the point where you wonder if they’ve ever considered what Mormonism actually is. Just think of what they have to defend. Joseph Smith’s translating the golden plates with a magic rock and his history of treasure hunting guided by the same rock is embarrassing. Men becoming actual gods, not just becoming like God in character, and ruling their own planets is a head snapper when presented to those not knowing about Mormonism.
    So the boys in the video are very earnest and sincere in their beliefs and they’ve bought the program lock, stock and barrel. I wonder where they’ll be ten to fifteen years from now? Will they still hold fast to their convictions in Mormonism or will they be like two-thirds of those on the rolls of the Mormon church, inactive.
    It’s an impossible system that either defeats the participants or causes them to become prideful and arrogant.

  8. Mike R says:

    Falcon, these young men go door to door supposedly with the gospel of Jesus Christ. This
    gospel they carry has been authorized by a group of men who claim to be directed and
    supervised by the Lord Himself. These men claim to Jesus’ apostles , they receive from Him
    His pure gospel truths and send the young Missionaries out to preach. But what is the true
    gospel of Jesus ? These men (apostles) have described their gospel as being a system of ” laws ”
    ordinances ” , and commands” , one former apostle called it a ladder , the “Gospel ladder”,
    every step was a gospel principle that must be kept in order to attain the Celestial Kingdom.
    A few examples of such principles and laws that were taught to be necessary to be right with
    God during the time this particular Mormon apostle was preaching “the restored gospel” :
    Polygamy was called a law and part of Jesus’ gospel; to marry a black woman was against
    “God’s law” ; it was God’s law to tell habitual thieves they would be killed . There were more
    but these examples revealed the Mormon restored gospel for many years. In recent years this
    gospel has different laws, commands , but one of the most crucial has not been discarded . This
    all important command is still intact : submission to Church hierarchy ! Because it is thru this
    one that the other ” gospel laws, commands and obligations ” have been issued to the Mormon
    people. False apostles create false gospels —2Cor 11 :13; Rev.2:2 . Unlike the Mormon gospel
    the true gospel is stable .It’s sure : 1 Cor15:1-4

  9. ChaplainKathleen says:

    The one thing that DOESN’T surprise me is that it takes more than one sentence to describe salvation. I’d bet that billions of words have been spent on clarifying Paul’s sentence, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

    And rightly so. As Christians, we would be remiss if we didn’t explain (in the US with its plurality of nominal Christians) that “believe” means more than “agree that Jesus existed”, or “agree that Jesus was a great teacher and role model”, or even “agree that he was the Son of God”.

    Evangelical Christians would also clarify that “believe in the Lord Jesus Christ” does not suggest salvation by sacrament (that we are saved by Christ’s atonement through the sacrament of baptism), or by a combination of belief with something else (good works, our parents’ baptismal promises, etc.)

    As a Methodist chaplain in three secular nursing homes, it takes me about five minutes to give the invitation each week. It takes that long to explain WHAT to believe about Jesus, HOW to repent, WHY these two steps (repentence and trust in Christ’s sacrifice to atone for our sins) are important, and what NOT to trust in (church membership, baptism, good works, being a “follower of Jesus” by being good and helpful).

    So I don’t hold it against the young men that it takes awhile to explain their theology. But of course I don’t agree with them even one whit. (Just to make it clear.)

  10. Rick B says:

    Mike said

    My heart goes out to them , to put all the effort that they
    do into preaching a counterfeit gospel is really sad.

    Mike, you know what I find even sadder? Is way to many so called believers refuse to share the Gospel with anyone, even mormons, yet these guys are out spreading a false gospel. I have heard many believers tell me that if Mormons or any “cult” members knocks on their door, they refuse to talk to them. It’s also sadder that Ray comfort has a video on youtube where he will go up to a “christian” Ask them if they will go share the gospel with (That person) over their, Ray then points to a random person. Then the so called Christian will make excuses as to why they cannot. They Ray offers them 100.00 dollars to do it and then they do it. That is even sadder.

  11. Mike R says:

    Rick, what you said is spot on ! My wife ( a former JW) and I tell people that since these
    sincere followers of false prophets come to your door with nothing you can’t let them leave
    with nothing ! We must tell them about Jesus .

  12. falcon says:

    I wonder if Mormons have really thought through the implications of their salvation system?
    What I mean is, why bother? They are working themselves to death, not to mention the anxiety and worry over whether they’ve done enough, and they have absolutely no assurance that they are going to get the game trophy.
    Even within their system, devoted Christians will get the same reward as a bunch of them will get based on our belief in the Lord Jesus and our sincerity in living a godly life. They’re not doing what they do to avoid hell, because in their view there isn’t such a place. They’re doing all that they do in the hope that they will become gods.
    I can see why two-thirds of those on the rolls are inactive. I wonder how many “active” members have enrolled in the deification program? I’m sure the LDS church keeps a rap sheet on who attends the temple and how often. My guess is that it doesn’t total half of the active members. I would bet it’s more like twenty-five percent.
    There is no stratification of believers in the Lord Jesus Christ that I’m aware of. Any jewels in our crowns based on our works is for the glory of Jesus. The crowns will be thrown at His feet.
    Mormon deification is all about the individual and how and much work he can do in order to satisfy the system. Poor woman who marries a slacker in the Mormon system. Remember, she has to depend on him to raise her from the dead and pull her through the veil.
    The power is in the blood of Christ, not the work that man can do.

  13. Mike R says:

    Read what was stated at the 9:44-10:13 in this video. Good intentions ? Failure to keep ALL
    the commands because of your weakness ? No worry , ” because the Atonement of Jesus
    Christ will kick in and help us actually get to a better place “. Really ?

    From a Mormon apostle : ” One church member of my acquaintance said , as she drank her
    coffee: ‘ The Lord knows my heart is right and that I have good intentions, and that I will
    someday get the strength to quit . ‘ But will one receive eternal life on the basis of his good
    intentions ? ….The Lord will not translate one’s good hopes and desires and intentions into
    good works. Each of us must do that for himself.”
    and:
    ” But for the Latter-day Saint who are valiant, who fulfill the requirements faithfully and fully,
    the promises are glorious beyond description: Then they become gods…..”
    [ Spencer W. Kimball , The Miracle of Forgiveness p.8-9 ]

  14. Mike R says:

    The video asked the question :

    ” What do we need to do to live with Heavenly Father after we die ? ”

    Answer: John 3:15-16 , 20:31; Acts 16:31; Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 10:9-13

  15. falcon says:

    Mike,
    I’m kind of curious. Does the Mormon Heavenly Father live with his Heavenly Father? It must get kind of crowded with all of these gods living together. It doesn’t take to long for Mormonism to collapse under its own weight of unexplained and unintended consequences. We have Heavenly Father and Heavenly Grandfather and Heavenly Great Great Grandfather and………..I think you get the picture. I guess there’s just one big happy family in the Celestial Kingdom with all of these gods and their planets to rule and we even have meetings, we are told, of the gods when they decided to send Jesus to earth.
    This is not only an odd fantasy it is a tragic one. The problem is that Mormonism, on the surface, appears Christian. Mormonism has the correct labels but applied to a religious system that is nothing like Christianity. All the attempts by modern day Mormons to normalize their religion and make it appear to be just like orthodox Christianity falls apart when the veil is lifted.
    There are multiple gods and a Jesus who is nothing like the historical authentic Christ. Jesus warned that false prophets would emerge and so would false Christs. The tragedy of this video is that the boys’ sincerity and earnestness is applied to a false religious system that cannot deliver on its promises.
    The promise of the Father was the Holy Spirit, given to the Church after the ascension of Jesus. Jesus said when the Spirit of Truth comes, he will lead you into all truth. Unfortunately, for Mormons, their founding prophet Joseph Smith found it more attractive to follow the spirits embedded in the folk magic he practiced. These boys are the unfortunate result of Smith’s deceit.

  16. Mike R says:

    Falcon, that’s a good question about Grandfather’s . In Mormon Church publications it is taught
    Grandparents can offer a special care for their children and grandchildren in the help of
    rearing them . It also says that if Mormon parents have a proper relationship with their children
    then that would turn the grandchildren’s heart to the Grandparents etc. So from this is shows that
    Grandparents play a necessary role in the lives of their grandchildren . How does this relate to
    your question? Simple, since Joseph Smith, Brigham Young mentioned that LDS have a Grand-
    father God up in heaven, then why should’nt they acknowlege Him by praising Him for His proper
    place in their family life ? Family life here on earth is a mirror of the Heavenly home as LDS
    have been taught. An even worse defect in Mormon doctrine is how the Mormon people are
    counseled by their leadership to refrain from thanking their Heavenly Mother for her love .
    It’s proper for them to verbally express gratitude to both earthly parents and even to Heavenly
    Father according to Church curriculum , but apparently not to their Mother in heaven . That’s
    not good family values. This is what happens when decent people become convinced that they
    need a prophet to reveal God’s truth them , and then are told to submit to this prophet’s spiritual
    guidance IF they want God’s blessings and eternal life . God help the Mormon people to dismiss
    their leaders and fully trust in Jesus to lead them as THE prophet who is a trustworthy guide
    in spiritual truth.

  17. 4fivesolas says:

    Listening to this video should help every Christian realize the completely non-Christian view Mormons have of salvation. When one engages in discussion online or in person with a Mormon they have a completely distorted view of salvation – it’s “all about me.” They are exclusively focused on works and things that must be done for salvation and exaltation (according to their theology). Much like many of the Church leaders of Luther’s day, they take the gift of salvation and make a list of works one must complete in order to merit this salvation. They turn God’s gift of baptism into the triune God into a work one must do – they distort communion, replacing wine with water, and turn it into a work – rather than a way of receiving of God’s mercy in Christ’s death and resurrection. From there they pile on commandments, not understanding that the law reveals to us our sinfulness and breaks us, making us realize we are completely unable to save ourselves – and can only be saved by God’s mercy by faith through grace. The question of what will happen if one fails to keep the commandments is not really a question – that’s where we all are! No one does good! Don’t try to stand before God based on your own merits, it is only through Jesus death and resurrection we are saved – Jesus and done all for our salvation. God’s law or man-made law and rules cannot save, they reveal our desperate need of a savior.

  18. Dale says:

    Everyone has commented on the content of their answer, but I’d like someone to address the tone.

    The missionaries I met used the exact same manner of speaking. It’s a tone I rarely hear elsewhere. Think about it. When you ask a regular teacher a question, they usually speak to you in a more conversational style.

    Pastors don’t speak this way either. Has anyone ever written about the way that the missionaries speak because it seems pretty universal among the elders and is a tone they slip into when answering common questions?

  19. spartacus says:

    As for Mormon Missionaries, I generally think of them as the sorriest bunch of missionaries ever. I don’t mean to be mean but they are just ignorant, unhelpful young men. I’m sure there must be some out there that know enough about their religion to be considered real missionaries instead of tape recorders, but that is only generosity on my part and completely opposed to my many experiences with many sets of missionaries. As for their tone, it is tape recording. I read about their attempts to get missionaries to sound more natural in their presentations, it was here or some book, but its not working. At the very least, after getting used to their own style, it becomes robotic after so many renditions of it.

    I have heard, though never had the opportunity myself, that female LDS missionaries are often more effective than male (for # of baptisms). I would suspect that, perhaps being generally more mature and expressive, that female missionaries would be more respectable, though probably still woefully ignorant (simply b/c it is seemingly unlikely to have s.o. who knows all that I would want LDS missionaries to know and still be willing to be a missionary).

    In my experience, missionaries say the same things as others (lessons), don’t know the same things (answers tough questions or controversies), don’t get back to you on your legit questions or controversial ones either, and don’t know what to do when you insist on talking about something other than their backgrounds and the lessons. I’ve heard the lessons so many times that I tell missionaries now that if they want to come they are welcome but I gain nothing from their introduction-like lessons; I need to talk about real stuff.

  20. spartacus says:

    LDS missionaries also seem to have the same set of responses to challenges-either nothing (I don’t know about that, There’s s.o. we can ask about that and we’ll get back to you [they don’t]) or pat answers (the JoD is not scripture, I’ve never heard anyone say they believed that, etc.) Back to tone, I suppose it is not enought to say that they are tape recorders, because that would only describe part of the tone. The tone between this vids miss’s and those I’ve heard is too similar to just be a result of repetition;I suspect it is coming about from their training.

    I would like to be able to talk with older missionaries sometime. I’ve heard that they do have adult missionaries doing regular miss-work, though those with the most life lived and, hopefully, perspective are stationed at temples or offices. Too bad.

    Also, one thing I forgot to mention about female missionaries. I suspect they might be better than male missionaries, no matter their ages, because of their Relief Society meetings. Anyone who has attended a priesthood meeting knows that they are basically complete wastes of time and some of the greatest evidence that the priesthood is not what it makes itself out to be. This appears to be generally attested to by what I have heard from others. But, according to my wife, the RS meetings are real substantive sharings of perspectives and feelings about the lesson material and the women’s own lives. Besides being women more accustomed to communicating, sharing, and being vulnerable around one another, I also think that the unique set of difficult circumstances that LDS women must constantly struggle under tends to humble and refine their spirits and force them to bond and support.

  21. spartacus says:

    I just had a thought based on the title of this post: “How to spend eternity with Heavenly Father?”

    I realized that, if I remember correctly as it has been sometime since I had the standard lessons, the miss [other note: is there an agreed upon short form of “missionary”: miss, missns, missy/s…] start off with some type of passing statement including God but only on their way to JS and revelation and spend most of their time on the different parts of the plan of salvation (so much for the importance of Jesus the Christ- as he is only one part of this, and thus even smaller of the whole lesson group).

    But, yeah, besides these intruding thoughts, the thought I just had was, they never explain WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO BE WITH HEAVENLY FATHER? Given the small treatment Jesus is given in the lessons, we aren’t even given much opportunity to understand why we should want to be with Heavenly Father. The only real reason given and given any real time is eternal families. THIS is significant. But for now I just wanted to review Heavenly Father and ask “Why?”:

    Well, what do we know about the LDS Heavenly Father:
    -He was once a man like us (ok), he accepted his savior and accomplished eternal progression (admirable). [I know not all LDS believe these statements so we’ll proceed.]

    – He conceived us (or organized us and conceived our spirit bodies, depending on how far into JS/BY theology you go) but apparently(it’s either Him or His supposed Church that He supposedly controls that) demands we ignore the Heavenly Mother with whom he did this.

    – He cared for us in the 1st Estate/Pre-existence but then sent us to be tested. We weren’t just made with the option to sin

  22. spartacus says:

    …we were actually put in a situation in which we would have to sin (or transgress if you take the LDS view) by whom? Heavenly Father.(for clarity, I’m refering to the contradictory commands to be fruitful and to not eat of the tree that leads to ability to procreate)

    -But it’s good to be tried and tested by this fallen world for our own benefit and Heavenly Father fixed it, right? No, Jesus did. Well, HF had the solution, right? No, Jesus did (Gospel Principles). But Jesus went with HeavenlyFather’s authority, right? Yes. But what was this authority? Jesus was already a god so He already had the power, so HF just asked for a volunteer and gave his permission.

    -Since we’ve been on this planet we haven’t seen our HeavenlyFather, except in Eden. Since then its been Jesus/Jehovah talking/living/interacting with us for the vast majority(of time/Bible) and the Holy Spirit/Ghost since Jesus’ ascension.

    -But what about Earth/SolarSystem/Galaxy/Universe (depending on your belief of what HeavenlyFather’s territory is)? Jesus organized it. This is definitely true. Depending on your particular LDS belief that may be it, except that HeavenlyFather authorized Jesus to do so. Or you may believe that HeavenlyFather, Jesus, and Archangel Michael created Earth/All of “Organization”. But GospelPrinciples says Jesus created this and many other worlds “under the direction of HeavenlyFather”. This sounds stronger for HF but then GP immediately follows with quote of JS and Sidney Rigdon’s vision “that by [Jesus], and through [Jesus], and of [Jesus], the worlds are and were created”. What does it mean that they were made “of” Jesus? “By” and “through” could be just HF’s direction of HF’s ideas, but “of” indicates less for HF, more for Jesus.

  23. spartacus says:

    And, finally, a few last thoughts about Heavenly Father’s worthiness of our persuit. Being our literal spiritual father, it seems inappropriate for HF to shun most of his children because they didn’t meet his expectations. This is ok and just for the Ultimate to do, but not a literal father of any sort. It also seems inappropriate for HF to have 2 levels of his Celestial kingdom for those who did everything he wanted except a few things (marriage, temple worthiness non-stop, etc.). I know many LDS think HF will provide spouses for the worthies but I’m pretty sure that’s not in scripture.

    Also, what kind of father (whether having acheived “divinity”, whatever that means, or not) justifiably demands worship?

    This is all as opposed to God as Christians believe Him to be. Jesus is the true revelation of the Father. Jesus is THE God. So God/Heavenly Father, whom we return to in Heaven/the new Heaven thru Christ, is everything Jesus showed him to be: worthy of worship (because He is the Ultimate and condescends to adopt us into a father/son relationship) and to be desired above and to the exclusion of all things.

    Taken in this sense, what are LDS missionaries really offering people- Eternal families, nice place to stay, and what else, really?

    Before we ask “How to spend eternity with Heavenly Father?” maybe we should answer “Why should we want to spend eternity with Heavenly Father?”

  24. falcon says:

    The first video (at the top of the blog) where the young man raps about loving Jesus but hating religion has gone viral as they say. There are some folks who don’t like the young man’s sentiments and feel he is being unfair to religion. If you listen closely to the words, it’s easy to understand what his point is.
    Actually the Apostle Paul makes the same points in the Book of Romans. In Mormonism the religion is a system that if followed, is suppose to allow someone to become a god. So what happens is the dedicated Mormon becomes a slave to the system thinking, wrongly, that they are pleasing the Mormon god. Part of the Mormon plan is to live a godly life. That’s good. However the problem with it is the motivation for godly living and the imposition of rules and regulations that are suppose to keep someone in line.
    My experience is that this sort of legalism, known as THE LAW in Scriptures, had no power to change a person inside. It merely keeps people conforming to a list of rules with applied sanctions for messing up.
    When we come to Jesus in faith we are born again by the Spirit of God. He makes his abode in us. We become the temple of the Holy Spirit. We are changed by the Spirit from the inside. The Law only convicts us. It is harsh and unrelenting. We can never keep the Law. The Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus provides us with the cleansing power of his blood. It’s a continuous washing and healing process.
    We are told that if we walk in the Spirit, we won’t carry out the deeds of the flesh. Without Christ we have the continual pattern of sin and death.

  25. Sandi B. says:

    I am surprised that no one has commented on (or maybe someone did, but I missed it scrolling through the comments), but I have hertofore never heard that they equated baptism with the doctrine of being “born again.” Did anyone else find that illuminating or even strange? Its sounds like by hijacking the term “born again” and saying baptism is “being born again” as Jesus described to Nicodemus in John 3, that they are trying to shift themselves into main stream Christianity. I don’t remember when I was a mormon being taught anything about this doctrine at all nor did I ever hear any of my fellow mormons describe themselves as either being “saved” or “born again” Anyway, I am in agreement with everyone here, my heart goes out to these young men!

Leave a Reply