Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus

Posted on January 23, 2012 by Aaron Shafovaloff

Possibly related posts:

  1. No Love Lost Between Mormons and HBO’s “Big Love”
  2. Regarding Holland’s remark about hate-filled DVDs
  3. Fundamentalist Mormons and Big Love

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16 Responses to Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus

  1. canuck54 says:
    January 23, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    Beautiful, thought provoking, in your face, TRUTH! Love it.

    canuck

  2. falcon says:
    January 23, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    Comments weren’t up yet so I wrote this on the other thread.

    The video where the young man raps about loving Jesus but hating religion has gone viral as they say. There are some folks who don’t like the young man’s sentiments and feel he is being unfair to religion. If you listen closely to the words, it’s easy to understand what his point is.
    Actually the Apostle Paul makes the same points in the Book of Romans. In Mormonism the religion is a system that if followed, is suppose to allow someone to become a god. So what happens is the dedicated Mormon becomes a slave to the system thinking, wrongly, that they are pleasing the Mormon god. Part of the Mormon plan is to live a godly life. That’s good. However the problem with it is the motivation for godly living and the imposition of rules and regulations that are suppose to keep someone in line.
    My experience is that this sort of legalism, known as THE LAW in Scriptures, had no power to change a person inside. It merely keeps people conforming to a list of rules with applied sanctions for messing up.
    When we come to Jesus in faith we are born again by the Spirit of God. He makes his abode in us. We become the temple of the Holy Spirit. We are changed by the Spirit from the inside. The Law only convicts us. It is harsh and unrelenting. We can never keep the Law. The Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus provides us with the cleansing power of his blood. It’s a continuous washing and healing process.
    We are told that if we walk in the Spirit, we won’t carry out the deeds of the flesh. Without Christ we have the continual pattern of sin and

  3. 4fivesolas says:
    January 23, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    I have a mixed reaction to this video; he definitely GETS grace – Jesus on the cross for my sins, and I appreciate that so many people are watching this video and getting that clear message of salvation by grace through faith. And I think he is trying to get at false religion, Law, and hypocrisy in his criticism; and yet he does not clearly say that.
    On the other hand, many people have watched this (rightly or wrongly) and felt justified in their rejection of “organized religion.” “It’s just me and Jesus” is their essential belief/creed. Christians who stand together, and confess their faith together, are an easy target when compared with an internal subjective religious experience; Joseph Smith used this same tactic of attacking organized religion/Christianity to say that God needed to restore his Church – and Mormons also use internal experience as the benchmark of truth. Many people are taking this video as all Churches are wrong, or as validation for their not being a part of Church.
    There are also some things about the video that don’t seem to make sense to me. He says “I ain’t judgin” when basically the entire video is about making judgements (I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, we have to make judgements about things all the time, but he should not have said he’s not judging).
    I think Falcon is right, much of what Jefferson Bethke says is about “Law” – God’s Law or man-made law and rules cannot save – they only serve to convict us of our sin and show us our desperate need of a Savior. But unfortunately, the way he used “religion” it’s not really clear that’s what he means.

  5. Rick B says:
    January 24, 2012 at 8:49 am

    Our church showed this video a week or two ago before service, I like this video, I watched the added video with the kid talking on the news. I dont agree with the catholic guy one bit. I hate religion and it does no good. So what that the “religious” people are the first to help out if their is a natural disaster, so they are giving people food or water, the question is, Are they giving the people Jesus?

    The Mormons or the Muslims, or the JW’s can be out helping and giving food, these are religious people doing good things, But are they giving Jesus? No they are not, they are spreading Islam, or JS or Mary baker Eddie or what ever, so will these people end up dying and standing before God and saying, Yes I knew you? This Muslim gave me a cup of water and a sandwich and told me all I need to know about Jesus. Nope, The Muslim will help out but not give Jesus.

    Religion is what we see when people stand before God and He says, I never knew you, depart from me your workers of evil. These “religious” people were doing good works, but that is all they have, good works. Good works cannot save. Religion is man’s attempt to save himself by going good works. So I dont agree with the Catholic guy. Also I refuse to call these guys “Father” Jesus said Dont call people Father, I have only one, that is my father in heaven, and Jesus, no some catholic guy is my only mediator before God, I can go to god myself with out the priest.

    I also noticed the catholic getting in a subtle jab on the kid, You have only been saved since 2009. Cont,

  6. Rick B says:
    January 24, 2012 at 8:50 am

    Cont,
    That to me implied he was saying How can the kid really know enough to say anything like he did in the video.

  7. 4fivesolas says:
    January 24, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    Rick B,
    Some of the religious people who helped out after the Joplin Missouri tornado were sharing both helping hands and food, in addition to Jesus Christ’s love for the people. Their religion does not believe that good works save – they believe it is completely and only through Jesus death and resurrection. See the problem here? Jefferson Bethke seems to have a floating definition of religion – and some would use his video as a reason to reject every Church or religion – even those that do hold up Jesus and his grace and mercy. Joseph Smith also used a general despising of the Churches of his day to say that God was doing something new and wonderful – read my BOM and follow me! All the Churches are an abomination to God! (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith – History 1:19) But in reality, our Churches full of broken sinful people who receive God’s mercy and grace in Jesus Christ are indeed not perfect, but that doesn’t mean no one there knows or understands God’s grace.
    Also, there is much about the first vision of Joesph Smith (where is supposedly heard that all Churches are an abomination) to indicate that it was him starting the false religion – http://www.irr.org/mit/first-vision.html Joseph Smith started a false religion that is based on works righteousness, earning your way to heaven – they distort the nature of God (saying He is an exalted man) and go on to build false rules and regulations in order to win God’s favor – it does not work, it only leads to despair and hell.

  8. falcon says:
    January 24, 2012 at 6:46 pm

    4-5,
    It’s not a matter of Mormons working their way to heaven. A person could see a rationale, though wrong, for such an idea. The problem is that Mormons think they can make themselves into gods by their works. Now that makes sense to them because it’s a matter of morphing yourself into a god by a process of personal perfection.
    There are Mormons who interpret their morphing into gods as one of character not actually becoming gods and would discount the ruling of a personal solar system as pure @mormon propaganda. They discount the fact that this is clearly taught by past Mormon leaders. They want to make Mormonism into something that is more socially acceptable to the outside world. They simply fill Mormonism up with their own meaning.
    I don’t know what these folks say about the Mormon concept of the nature of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. It’s important to note, for example, that the Community of Christ Mormon sect, rejects the doctrine of the Utah LDS church.

  9. falcon says:
    January 25, 2012 at 6:00 am

    I just picked this up off of another blog dealing with all things Mormon and thought it was applicable to our discussion here. It says:

    The Gospel Principles manual (chapter 14) used to say:

    “An Apostle is a special witness of Jesus Christ in all the world …”

    and now says:

    “An Apostle is a special witness OF THE NAME of Jesus Christ in all the world ….” (Emphasis added.)

    Another example is found in chapter 17:

    “Twelve Apostles, who are special witnesses of Jesus Christ, teach the gospel and regulate the affairs of the Church in all parts of the world…”

    and now says:

    “Twelve Apostles, who are special witnesses OF THE NAME of Jesus Christ, teach the gospel and regulate the affairs of the Church in all parts of the world….” (Emphasis added.)

    Is this a distinction without a difference? It is my understanding that in the “old days”, in order to become an apostle in the Mormon church, a man had to have had a vision of Jesus. In-other-words, Jesus would have had to actually appear to them.
    In the video featured on this thread, the rapper says he loves “Jesus” but hates religion. He didn’t say he loved the name of Jesus. That wouldn’t sound right would it?
    The Bible teaches that there is power in the name of Jesus but the name denotes the Son of God; in fact God incarnate. A Mormon’s impression of who Jesus is is something totally different from who the Bible and Christian tradition tells us Jesus is.
    How would a Mormon “rap” about Jesus? Would they work in a few lines about Jesus being the spirit offspring of one of the Mormon gods and one of his many wives? Would their be sentiments expressed that Jesus, and the Mormon rapper, are really spirit brothers?

  10. Rick B says:
    January 25, 2012 at 8:45 am

    4-5,
    I never said nobody was sharing Jesus when some natural disaster hit, I said religious people were not. Let me put it this way, You can take every single religion in the world and even toss in atheists if you want and then take Christianity, what sets us apart from all the religions in the world?

    We have a relationship with the true and living God, all other religions do not. You either have a relationship or you have religion. You either Know Jesus or you dont. Husbands and wives, parents and Children, close friends Etc, they have relationships with each other, they dont have religion with each other.

    Now take that catholic guy for example, If he really truly has the love of Jesus and not just some religion, or any of the Catholics that are working in the system and not just the pew warming once a week types that dont serve in some fashion, if they really have Jesus and not religion, they why are they not doing more and speaking out more to stop all the sexual abuse in the church? It is so well know that priests are doing this and just passing the offenders off to other churchs that it has made world news many times.

    what about the false doctrines they teach, like making Mary co-redemtress and placing her in a position above Jesus? Teaching false doctrines and allowing the sexual abuse is not showing the love of Christ. Jesus even said, It would be better for a mill stone to be tied around your neck than to offended one of these little ones. And Paul spoke about not allowing a person who says they are a brother to remain in the church if they commit this sexual abuse.

  11. Rick B says:
    January 25, 2012 at 9:00 am

    So 4-5,
    Like I said, religion is not the same as knowing Jesus. You said some people would use this video to reject Jesus. I dont agree with you and I feel we should give people more credit. I believe people do understand what he said and if they use this video in anyway to reject Jesus then that is their fault and not the kids fault. It’s like this,

    I am responsible for what I say, Not how you understand it.

    If your going to say some might miss understand him and then reject Jesus, then you might as well never post on a blog or website or even speak to anyone ever again. How many times over the years has some body on this blog either Christian or Mormon not understand what the other said? Or how about all the mormons that say we are wrong and getting are facts wrong? We know they simply dont agree with us, but we back it up with evidence showing we are not wrong.

    IMO, If someone rejects Jesus simply after watching this video, then they already had serious issues and were simply looking for an excuse to leave and never come back. The Bible tells us we are with out excuse. I would be more concerned about people who are teaching false doctrine than some kid in a video saying he does not agree with religion. It’s people making a big deal over this video and not making a big deal over the False doctrine being pushed by churchs that bothers me.
    It;s easy to talk about this video and criticize this kid, but not to speak to the local pastors of churchs and confront those that we know are teaching false doctrines. Like the rob bells of this world.

  12. 4fivesolas says:
    January 25, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    Falcon,
    I think I know how a young Mormon would approach this – he would make a cleaver rap about all of the rules and requirements. Basically a Mormon would incorrectly proclaim “Jesus says do” while false Churches and religion “says done.” Essentially, the rap would proclaim what the two Mormon missionaries in the video below this one said. I debated with a Mormon on another blog about this video, and essentially the gospel portion of this rap was exactly where he had a problem – he thinks truth/God is all about works and the gospel of grace is offensive to him. Typical Mormon response to the scandalous gospel of free grace and forgiveness.
    Also, you are right – their understanding of man becoming a god, just as their god once did is completely different from our Christian understanding of Jesus death and resurrection for our salvation. The Mormon Jesus is kind-of another Moses of sorts – who brings all kinds of laws, rules, and new temple duties – only this new Moses is really a false Jesus whose new laws (no caffeine!) and new temple works do nothing to save or deify anyone.

  13. spartacus says:
    January 26, 2012 at 1:38 am

    WARNING:Obviously but I state publicly that I want moderators to pull this post if deemed inappropriate. I actually don’t mean to offend anyone. If there were a way to submit as a requested “moderator review” hold, I would have. Perhaps, even if there is some inadvertant offense taken, it may spur some real conversation.

    To the Reader (especially any LDS reader): I honestly do not mean to be offensive in what I write here. I simply took the challenge of wondering what an LDS spoken word might be like. All content here is meant to either represent historical teaching (wives,servants,etc.), current teaching/belief by at least some LDS (babies,planets,etc.) , and to represent a bit of my own beliefs about the internal reality of an honest LDS believer (lying,better chances after mission,”as if I was able”,etc.). Obviously I used the young man’s original as template.

    That said, here is what I came up with:

    LDS Church > Grace

    What if I told you Jesus came to perfect religion?
    What if I told you giving a free ride wasn’t his mission?
    What if I told you baptized doesn’t automatically mean Christian,
    and just because you call some people heretics doesn’t automatically give you correct doctrine.
    I mean, if Christianity is so great, why has it started so many wars?
    Why does it televise huge churches but fail to tithe more.
    Tells people they can have freedom and peace through grace,
    as if they don’t have to run their own race.
    Christianity might preach Grace but not enough execution.
    Tend to ridicule us Mormons, prove us right by persecution.
    They don’t want to fix their problems, it’s all just a post-save party
    Grace-alone is like saying God’s acceptance is fool-hardy.
    See the problem with Christians is they never work more
    Than when they didn’t believe and so still live like whores
    (contd.)

  14. spartacus says:
    January 26, 2012 at 1:57 am

    (contd. part 2)

    Like, let’s forget reverence and praise God foolishly
    But it’s funny… Oh wait, it’s not. Cause God will react angrily.
    Now, I ain’t perfect. I’m just sayin, “At least I try to be.”
    Because there’s a problem if people think you and I are both True Christianity.
    I mean in every way you should know you live in apostacy.
    It’s like saying you’re right to believe in the Trinity fallacy.
    Justly this wasn’t me, by my 1st estate accomplishment, God put me in a worthy LDS family,
    If He hadn’t, I would have been living so filthily.
    See, on Sundays, I go to church but on Saturdays ward dances,
    wondering, if after my mission, I’ll have better chances.
    See, I spend my whole life building precept upon precept, line upon line
    Hoping one day to have a heavenly wife and a planet, or more of each, to call mine.
    Because, if Grace is water, then maybe we should go back to wine;
    Grace only gets you alive,. After that, the work is all mine.
    Which means I better not fail, I better not REALLY sin.
    Because it all depends on me, Grace just gets you started, not REALLY in.
    See, because, I was born without sin, guilty of none until accountable.
    And as long as I don’t mean to, my accidental sins can be uncountable
    if I take the sacrament renewing my covenants, as if to fulfill them I was able.
    Don’t you see it’s so much better living by the rules instead of a fable?
    Now let me clarify: I make mistakes, yes, but I’m trying.
    If my bishop knew it when I lied, I’d never get in.
    See, the temple is the key to true salvation.
    Because the Son of God never fully saved the ungodly, not now, not then.
    Now, back to the point. One thing in modern-day revelation:

  15. spartacus says:
    January 26, 2012 at 2:18 am

    (contd.Part3)

    How Grace and Works are opposite types of salvation.
    See one, alone, is a Devil-paid preacher’s lie, the other is the only way to deification.
    See one is the only way to the Father, Planet, and Babies, the other to eternal damn-…
    I mean limitation.
    See, because cheap grace is fools gold, you’ve got to work if you want a glorious vocation
    complete with servants from Heaven’s lower locations.
    Traditional Christianity leaves you in bondage, without Joseph Smith we wouldn’t be…
    able to return to Heavenly Father whatever we believed
    And that’s why we should be known as Christians.
    We’ll let them be tradition, we know we’re true Revelation.
    Which is why the plan of salvation is freely mine, and deity is mine to earn,
    Thanks to Jesus’ obedience, I know the things I have to do and learn.
    Because He prayed in the garden, and the blood sweated from his pores
    Thus he paid for our sins, but we still must do more.
    Because Christians forget Paul said, “And why are they then baptized for the dead?”
    While Christ did his work, I need to do mine and my family’s in their stead.
    Remember Christ only died your permanent death for you
    Which, if you want “eternal life”, we mean “increase,” which means progeny, you got more work to do.
    So, for grace? No, I appreciate.
    In fact, I’m thankful death won’t be our final fate.
    Because, Jesus said, “It is finished,” but he didn’t mean it for you
    I know there’s more to do, because I know the LDS Church is true.

    (fade to black and…)

    “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” – James 2:24

  16. falcon says:
    January 26, 2012 at 6:30 am

    spartacus,
    I think what you have demonstrated here is that Mormonism has no relationship to orthodox, traditional, Biblical Christianity and that Mormons don’t have a clear concept of what Christianity is or teaches.
    Mormonism, in order to justify itself, has to paint Christianity as flawed and wrong. That was Joseph Smith’s game. So on about his eighth attempt to tell his first vision story, we have God the Father and Jesus appearing to him, telling him not to join any church, and that the real, authentic church would be restored through him (Smith) and that the creeds of Christianity were an abomination.
    Smith’s game was pretty simple. He (Smith) was right and everyone else was wrong. Smith claimed that God was speaking to and through him so that’s how he provided his own legitimacy for his claims.
    It isn’t very difficult to shoot holes in Smith’s claims. The tragedy of Smith’s folly is that Mormons never get to know who God is. The rapper in the video loves Jesus. Jesus is the focal point of Christianity. Mormons love their religious system and there we have the contrast.
    Mormons are depending on their religious system, if done right, to provide them with their eternal reward, being a god. Christians attempt to lead godly lives in order to be living sacrifices to God; a fragrant aroma.
    The Smith creation is all about a new god he invented and a system of works where by men can become gods themselves.
    Why do people follow this fool?

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