Only Jesus did his best

What do people mean when they say, “their best”?

“I did my best to make it on time.”

“I did my best to get good grades.”

“I do my best to be a good person.”

Normally, this functions as hyperbole or socially acceptable exaggeration. It is often feel-good language for moral failure. When pressed, people usually admit that they could have done better. But if one could have done better, then they didn’t do their actual best. “Best” often functions as a catchphrase for, “I could have done better, but I, uh, at least tried.”

This kind of ambiguity or “semantic range” or exaggeration or hyperbole has no place in a clear discussion on grace, faith, works, and forgiveness. It is arrogant to stand before a holy God and tell him, “I did my best.” No, you didn’t, you cosmic criminal. Stop lying to yourself, and stop lying to God.

If doing our real best is the precondition for forgiveness or eternal life, then we’re all doomed.

The only one who morally did his real best was Jesus.

Stop trusting the false god who justifies those who do their “best” and start trusting the God who justifies the ungodly by faith (Romans 4:4-8).

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85 Responses to Only Jesus did his best

  1. Mike R says:

    cattyjane , do you love to say the name ” Jesus ” when you talk about your christian walk ?

    I think the sooner you concentrate your reading to the New Testament the better it will be for
    you to understand some things better as concerns the christian walk .
    That’s my opinion .
    God bless you cattyjane .

  2. MJP says:

    Catty, I would add that I am not at all surprised that you find it difficult to accept Christ’s love, and that this is all he asks in return. Why? Because though it is the simplest of ideas, it is also the hardest to accept.

    How can anyone anywhere forgive just simply because they love me so much? And on top of that, we’re not just talking about loved ones near us, we are talking about God-almighty, who demands perfection (that did not change with Christ). But God does love us that much, so that He took the full form of a human and came to earth to die for us so that we might live. God loves us, there is no question.

  3. Clyde6070 says:

    I like the way you answer. So here goes.
    You said
    God’s standard is perfection.
    I say
    I agree with you there.
    You said
    If there is anyway for you to improve you did not do your best.
    I sayGod “will give to each person according to what he has done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
    I am in a learning process. I can only do my best up to the knowledge I have. I have a lot to learn and so do you. If I am standing before God I would be dead so how can I improve? My best answer would be I did my best.
    You said
    It’s that simple.
    I say
    I put my comments in because it seemed that the bloggers were having a hard time explaining that you don’ t follow the ten commandments because they are law but you do. It still is complicated to me.

    I am sorry that I don’t have time to answer everything. I do know that God will give to each person according to what he has done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

  4. Mike R says:

    Clyde, set aside all your Mormon publications and get alone with the Bible for a few weeks .
    Read slowly , re read , and ponder what is being said . Make time for this in your daily life .

  5. Clyde6070 says:

    Terrible editing on my part this is the way it should have read.
I like the way you answer. So here goes.

    You said
God’s standard is perfection.
I say
I agree with you there.

    You said
If there is anyway for you to improve you did not do your best.

    I say
I am in a learning process. I can only do my best up to the knowledge I have. I have a lot to learn and so do you. If I am standing before God I would be dead so how can I improve? My best answer would be I did my best.
You said
It’s that simple.
I say
I put my comments in because it seemed that the bloggers were having a hard time explaining that you don’ t follow the ten commandments because they are law but you do. It still is complicated to me.
    I am sorry that I don’t have time to answer everything. I do know that God will give to each person according to what he has done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

  6. fifth monarchy man says:

    Hey Clyde

    you said

I am in a learning process. I can only do my best up to the knowledge I have.

    I say,

    God’s standard is not “your best up to the knowledge you have” his standard is perfection.
    His standard is perfection anything else is sin. Please think about this

    you say,
    If I am standing before God I would be dead so how can I improve? My best answer would be I did my best.

    I say:

    if that is your best answer you will be eternally condemned as a law breaker. You have already granted as much

    This is serious business you need to think about it,

    you quote:

    God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

    I say,

    It does not say

    To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality “up to the knowledge they have”, he will give eternal life.

    Please dwell on this. Read what the text says not what you want it to say

    God’s standard is perfection, your righteous deeds are as filthy rags

    what can you expect to receive?????


  7. Rick B says:

    Clyde, your false prophet Joseph Smith said in D and C, a man cannot be saved in ignorance.
    I feel really sorry for you and all LDS. You guys are ignorant of many of your own teachings, so how can you be saved according to your scriptures. But then the teaching you are aware of are false and built upon lies and you guys ignore them and make excuses for them. So then how can you be saved when the bible is clear, liars and false prophets and false teachers will be cast into the lake of fire. Seems your doomed either way.

  8. MJP says:


    First, in most any country, ignorance of the law is not an excuse for breaking it. Second, we are told that the law is written on everyone’s hearts such that even if they do not hear the gospel message they are still without excuse. Its in the New Testament.

    So, if you believe in the New Testament, you should be aware of that truth.

  9. Rick B says:

    No Mormon on this blog can say they have not heard the truth when they stand before God. You will be with out excuse.

  10. fifth monarchy man says:


    Not to pile on but just 4 verses after the verse you quoted about God giving eternal life to those who persist in doing good we find this statement.


    For God shows no partiality. For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.
    (Rom 2:11-12)

    end quote:

    Have you sinned Clyde?

    It does not say continually sin or sin blatantly or sin openly it says simply “sin”

    What does the text say you can expect???
    Ignorance of the law is no excuse !!!!!!!


  11. cattyjane says:

    So just nevermind the first 10 vs of chaper 2 right?

  12. MJP says:

    Catty- of which book?

  13. Rick B says:

    Fifth MM said

    For God shows no partiality. For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.
    (Rom 2:11-12)

    Im guessing Catty Jane is talking about Romans Chapter 2, and she is asking about the verses 1-10 leading up to verse 11.

  14. fifth monarchy man says:

    Hey Catty Jane,

    You said,

    So just nevermind the first 10 vs of chaper 2 right?

    I say,

    I’m not sure what you are getting at.

    Verses 1 through 10 are all about everyone being under the wrath of God.
    God judges impartially

    Some are condemned by the standard they use to pass judgement on others
    (verses 1 through 3)

    Some are condemned because presume on the riches of God’s kindness and forbearance and patience (verses 4 and 5)

    At the judgement seat everyone is judged not arbitrarily but fairly by their works (verse 6)

    If anyone could live their entire life in “persistent well doing” according to God’s perfect standard they would be given eternal life (verse 7)

    But the rest of us will be condemned because we are often “self seeking” (verse 8 )

    Chapters two and three repeatedly drive home the point like a sledge hammer that we all. Jew and Gentile alike are fairly and equitably condemned in God’s sight. There is no difference

    We are all children of wrath with out hope.

    unless and except…………………

    But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith.
    (Rom 3:20b-25a)


  15. MJP says:

    Thanks, Rick.

    So, my take on Romans 2 1-10 is this. First, I am posting the verses here:

    “2 Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. 2 We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. 3 Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? 5 But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.

    6 He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking[a] and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek.”

    I say that these verses clearly state that doing good is a good thing. They state that we ought not to judge those who continue follow some of the law of the OT are just fine. I would think we all agree on that point. The second half is best described through vs. 7 & 8, which simply say that God will reward those who do good will receive eternal life and those who are self-seeking won’t. Nothing is specified in what is good, including any specific mention that following the law is good.

    Also, these ten verses are explained and parced in great detail throughout the rest of the book of Romans. For someone so concerned about the law, it would be wise to consider the entire book that discusses the relationship between the law and faith.

  16. fifth monarchy man says:

    What we all really need is to understand the Holiness of God.
    God does not grade on the curve and he does not wink at sin

    He is Holy Holy Holy

    He can can not even abide the sight of sin. The proper answer when one is in the presence of this kind of all consuming holiness is not “I did my best” It’s


    “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!”
    (Isa 6:5)

    or to fall on our knees and say

    “Depart from me, for I am a sinful man, O Lord.”
    (Luk 5:8)

    finally check this out

    “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you,…………. this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other………………… For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
    (Luk 18:10-14)

    nuff said


  17. falcon says:

    So time for me to pop into this thread.
    What are we talking about? Is it essential Christianity or one of the many forms of Mormonism?
    Anything that clyde writes is oriented to what he has been taught by the LDS church. So that’s his frame of reference. What he says makes sense to him based on his belief that he is going to become a god. clyde gets that notion from the ever evolving thoughts of Joseph Smith and those that followed him as a “prophet”. clyde practices level 2 LDS religion. He has to work in order to become a god. It must be earned through religious rituals/rites, obedience to LDS sect callings and the living out of what this sect has outlined as moral living. clyde will never do enough unless of course he rises to a high enough level in his Mormon sect to obtain that final ritual which will deem him to having done enough to become a god.
    None of this is Christianity of course whether we’re talking the present day or the first century church. clyde has bought into the LDS sects version of Mormonism. He certainly hasn’t considered that what first century Christianity was about bears no resemblance to 21st century Mormonism as practiced by the LDS sect.

  18. cattyjane says:

    That’s a huge difference you are right! Regardless of if we are to still obey the law or not the goal is significantly different. LDS obey not only the laws of Moses, but also these made up rules by men who as we see in the new topic posted do not even keep themselves. The goal of the LDS is to become a God or like God by their obedience. To bad Joseph Smith cant go back in time and talk to Moses face to face about his goals to be like God. Im pretty sure he would have been taken outside of the city and stoned to death. That is just an abomination! There are so many scriptures that point to there being only One God. There is one person who stated and will state in the last days that he has become “like God” and that is the false messiah.
    James 2:19 You do well is you believe there is only one God
    Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no savior
    Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
    Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
    Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; ad there is none else.
    Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it: ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

    Isaiah 14:14 talks about the evil one exalting himself of the Almighty. “I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself LIKE the Most High”
    2 Thessalonians 2:4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in Gods temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
    Ezekiel 28:2 “Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: “In the pride of your heart you say, “I am a god; I sit on the throne of a god in the heart of the seas.” But you are a mere mortal and not a god, though you think you are as wise as a god.

    Maybe it is because of the fear of God that I have, that I would never say “I will be like God, or A God”. Im pretty sure that with the understanding I have now If I were to say that I would be struck dead. That is a serious thing to say. The above posts are correct. God hates pride in our own works. The towel of Babel was destroyed because the people were trying to ascend to Heaven by their own power. That is not how it is done. We don’t sneak into the gates, or try to pick the lock. If we enter it is only because of mercy. I think it was Jeremiah who when he was taken into heaven to receive prophesy fell on his face. The only way that he stood up was when God raised him to his feet. And he was one of the greatest prophets ever!!! The only way that we can stand before God is if he raises us up himself. It is never us raising ourselves.

  19. cattyjane says:

    Sorry. I really wasnt trying to divert people off topc earlier. I was just commenting on what was posted.

  20. falcon says:

    If you’re in the LDS sect of Mormonism, being perfect is an expectation imposed by the system. It’s a standard by which the faithful Mormon man hopes to become a god. Anything less is not acceptable. The effect of such a standard of perfection is that it places an enormous amount of stress on someone trying to lead the life of perfection but it also serves as a point of pride for those who think they have a superior religious experience.
    Sinless perfection and the legalism that enforces it, didn’t start with Mormons. In the history of the Christian religion there have been movements that have tried the same thing. Pietism and the holiness movement are two that come to mind. The Methodist, who Joseph Smith was heavily influenced by, had their own “method” for maintaining high moral standards.
    “While studying at Oxford, Wesley, his brother Charles, and several other students formed a group devoted to study, prayer and helping the underprivileged. They were labeled “Methodist” by their fellow students because of the way they used “rule” and “method” to go about their religious affairs.”

    The bottom line is that the striving for “perfection” is a fool’s errand because it can’t be done and leaves the practitioner frustrated. Do I recommend perfection? Yes, absolutely! But the deal is that I’ve been declared righteous in the eyes of God based on my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. It is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me. I am the temple of the Holy Spirit. God no longer resides in temples made with the hands of men. He lives in us and has written His Law on our hearts. I do not obey by the Letter of the Law but by the Spirit of God.
    Bless His Holy Name!

  21. grindael says:

    Clyde and any who don’t understand, just needs to keep reading Romans 2, as I quoted way back up in the thread. It totally explains what we are talking about here and is all tied together:

    12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and THEIR THOUGHTS SOMETIMES ACCUSING THEM and AT OTHER TIMES EVEN DEFENDING THEM.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and boast in God; 18 if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19 if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of little children, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21 you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”

    25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26 So then, if those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

    28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

    Chapter 3

    21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who BELIEVE. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

    27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

    We do NOT have to obey the Law. Any of it. We do not need to, because the works of the flesh are OBVIOUS. (See my quotes above). When we obey the Holy Spirit, we EMBRACE the Law, because the Law (as the Holy Spirit does) makes us conscious of our sins.

    18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. (Galatians 5)

    It does not get any more plain than that. As Paul states,

    14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” (Galatians 5)

    Do you know what he means here? The ENTIRE LAW, is the ENTIRE LAW. As Paul states in Corinthians:

    7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

    12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. (2 Corinthians 3:7-18)

  22. cattyjane says:

    LDS first problem in doing temple works to acheive God hood or any status in heaven whatsoever is that their temple works are not even a shadow of what the true 1 and 2 temple were used for. If God had suddenly changed his mind about what temple works were necessary wouldnt he have told the Jewish people about it? Also there is only one place the temple can be built and HELLO its in Israel! Why have there no 3rd temple yet? Because a big Mosque is sitting in its spot.

    Maybe this was just a huge wake up call for me and maybe its not as clear for other LDS members. But when I researched the so called temple works and compared them to the works actually done in the temple it was so obvious that I was lied to. The temple was where sacrifices for sin was offered and the appointed feasts were observed. Not baptisms for the dead of marriage and family sealings. You lds are being sold a generic temple! Its like buying the sur fine wanna be brand of bread over Alpine Valley organic and K certified bread. The two are not the same its its just gonna make you sick.

  23. cattyjane says:

    Research this. How many Jewish people convert to Mormonism? I bet ZERO! You know why? Because the know their history and they know their God and they know the culture and content of the writings of the scriptures. They would never be deceived by such a hoax as the lds prophets. These prophets and apostles know that the people who are easiest to deceive are the ones who do not know these things. Just so obvious that is a cracker jacks religion it makes me hate that my name is on the rolls still.

  24. MJP says:

    Catty, I think you bring up an interesting point: how many Christians know enough about the faith to avoid the callings of a faith like Mormonism? I would argue not enough.

  25. falcon says:

    I don’t know what’s so difficult to understand. Christ completed the Law. The Law was there until Jesus sealed the New Covenant in His blood.
    I have no intention of being under the Old Covenant. Why would anyone want that with all of its implications.
    What’s that verse about what the Law couldn’t do weak as it were in the flesh, God did………………….
    Now why did God give the Law. It was our tutor until Christ.
    You keep banging away about how we now live this life of peace with God in the Spirit not in the Law. I don’t know. Maybe a person has to be born again to understand it!

  26. MJP says:

    Falcon, I get your frustration, but I have to say that I do get how people can miss the message. How can they miss the message? Its easy, pride and control. What the Gospel preaches is that we don’t have to be under rules but instead under Christ. Rules though provide boundaries that are more tangible and visible than is being under the vague notion that Christ does everything for us so rules aren’t needed. I am not saying Christ is not tangible, but it is in some ways easier to look to some code for what we are supposed to do than it is to rely on Christ. Why is that? Because the code gets specific in what we are to do and what we aren’t. Christ is not always clear– he rarely gives specific boundaries, and when he did it was usually quite radical. Specific rules appeal more to the sense of control we all have, and that is difficult for some to give up. Christ’s most important command was to love God, then to love everyone else. When we do those in all aspects of our lives, we stay within the boundaries of the rules, but there’s something psychological about our nature than makes it difficult to accept that.

    Anyway, my two cents.

  27. falcon says:

    Yup I’d say people want to be told what to do and then they want to rebel against what they’re told to do. I’m thinking of this even in terms of employee-employer relationships or students in schools or whatever.
    Though retired, I still spend a fair amount of time in schools. One of the things I always ask teachers is, “Do you have your rules posted?” When I teach college students who want to become teachers, one of the big things I cover is the importance of having routines and procedures and practicing with the students.
    So our lives are governed by rules, regulations, procedures, expectations and routines. Actually I’m OK with that and I have them built into my life.
    But now we come to our relationship with God through His Son Jesus Christ and we say we aren’t governed by form and structure but are compelled by love. That’s very difficult for many people to grasp and put into practice.
    Just for fun. Do you have rules that govern your relationship with your spouse? I’ll bet there are all kinds of unspoken rules. Let me give you an example from my own life. I always tell my wife where I’m going, how long I’ll be there and when I’ll return. That’s the way my mother trained me and it’s now a sort of rule.
    I never have anything “loud” on in the house when my wife is home. It’s impossible for me to watch a TV show with her because she has the volume so low I have to read lips. I’m not kidding. I even keep my guitar amps in my man-cave on a low volume when she’s within a mile of the house.

    So I don’t know, are these rules, expectations or courtesies? I like to think that I’m motivated by love and not a list of rules in my relationship with my wife. It’s the same with God.

  28. MJP says:

    Yup. Exactly. Love pushes us to put the interests of others above our own– like watching my wife’s TV show when the Cards are playing the Cubs on TV, and she watches the likes of Chopped, Food Court Wars, all home improvement shows, etc.

    Yes, there are rules in my house, mostly unspoken.

  29. Rick B says:

    I love Chopped, I applied 3 times to get on that show. My next Favorite is, Cut throat Kitchen, I want to get on that also.

  30. grindael says:


    I am at peace because I live by the Holy Spirit. I don’t worry about what I have to do, it’s obvious, and though what I do will never be enough,

    5-13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

    15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

    18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

    20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    6-1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

    5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

    8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

    11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace. (Romans 5&6)

    This is all so very simple. FREEDOM comes from living by the Holy Spirit. How can you live by the Holy Spirit, and have the Spirit dictate to you what your gifts shall be, if you are bound up in rules and regulations that are imposed upon you by men who have no idea what the Holy Spirit has designated for you?

    4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and HE distributes them to each one, just as HE determines. (1 Corinthians 12)

    If you are a PROPHET, you will be called by the Holy Spirit to prophesy. If you are a teacher, you will be given the gift to teach. If you are a leader, you will be given the gift to lead. Our AUTHORITY IS THE HOLY SPIRIT. No one but the Holy Spirit can give you the gifts that God has prepared for you. HE distributes them to each one, just as HE determines.

    29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.

    We can DESIRE them, but that doesn’t mean we will GET THEM. That is the fallacy of forced “priesthood”. It assumes that everyone will get all these gifts, based on following rules (MAKING oneself “righteous” by way of law). This is a great fallacy that is anathema to the Gospel of Jesus. Back to Romans:

    3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you. 4 For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5 so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith; 7 if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; 8 if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully.(Romans 12)

    This is why regulations like tithing destroys the freedom of the Holy Spirit. Giving, is a GIFT of the Holy Spirit. We all have different GIFTS, according to the GRACE given to each of us. We are not assembly line Christians. We are all individuals, led by the Holy Spirit which works in us for the common good. The Law has nothing to do with this. The Law destroys the freedom of the better way, the way of the Holy Spirit.

    23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.


    4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

    How many times does Paul have to say it? He says it over and over again in different letters to different churches. The ONLY THING that counts is FAITH (belief) expressing itself through LOVE. Not regulations, not commandments, not anything. If you LOVE ME, you will KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS (given to make those without the Holy Spirit conscious of their sins). If you LOVE ME, the works of the flesh are OBVIOUS. If you LOVE ME, you are no longer under the LAW.

    4 Such confidence we have through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (2 COrinthians 3)

    That is why I am at peace living by the Holy Spirit.

  31. grindael says:

    Contrast the above, to what Dallin Oaks says,

    The gift of the Holy Ghost is conferred on both men and women. So are spiritual gifts. As Elder Bruce R. McConkie declared in Nauvoo at the dedication of the Monument to Women: “Where spiritual things are concerned, as pertaining to all of the gifts of the Spirit, with reference to the receipt of revelation, the gaining of testimonies, and the seeing of visions, in all matters that pertain to godliness and holiness and which are brought to pass as a result of personal righteousness in all these things men and women stand in a position of absolute equality before the Lord. He is no respecter of persons nor of sexes, and he blesses those men and those women who seek him and serve him and keep his commandments.” (Ensign, Jan. 1979, p. 61.)

    Spiritual gifts do not come visibly, automatically, and immediately to all who have received the gift of the Holy Ghost. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that most such gifts are “not visible to the natural vision, or understanding of man,” and that it “require[s] time and circumstances to call these gifts into operation.” (Teachings, pp. 244, 246.)

    The scriptures tell us that we should desire and zealously seek spiritual gifts. (See D&C 46:8; 1 Cor. 12:31; 1 Cor. 14:1, 11.) We are also told that some will receive one gift and some will receive another. (See D&C 46:11; 1 Cor. 12; Moro. 10:8–18.) In every case, the receipt of spiritual gifts is predicated upon faith, obedience, and personal righteousness. (See Bruce R. McConkie, A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1985, p. 367.)

    Here we see the fallacy of what Mormonism teaches, because they claim that through ordination, only a special few, get ALL the gifts:

    When we hear the word prophet in our day, we are accustomed to thinking of the prophet. These words signify him who holds the prophetic office and is sustained as the prophet, seer, and revelator. The priesthood offices and powers exercised by the President of the Church are unique. As we learn in the Doctrine and Covenants, it is given to him to have “all the gifts of God which he bestows upon the head of the church.” (D&C 107:92; see also D&C 46:29; D&C 50:26–28.)

    This is not what is taught in the Bible. There is no ladder of righteousness that one can climb to get ALL the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Nowhere does the Bible teach this. Nowhere does it teach that certain men can be ordained to get all the spiritual gifts. For the lay members, they only get “some” while the special “prophet” gets them all. This is certainly not “absolute equality before the Lord.”

  32. falcon says:

    Very Good!
    Folks in the LDS sect live by rules and regulations and rites that they think will transform them into gods. Where do they get this type of thinking? From a bunch of free lance prophet wannabees that were able to convince them that Biblical Christianity was corrupted and lost along with God’s Word.

    My first question to a MM would be, “So what you believe, teach and practice is exactly what the first century Christian Church believed, taught and practiced?” My second question would be, “Can you prove that to me?”
    Now the fun really starts because they will want to say that they were taught these things through “revelation”. Well this kind of “revelation” opens the door to all sorts of fun and games which is what Mormonism is. Not so much fun and games today because the boys have settled down, but in the old days they were coming up with all sorts of fabulous doctrines. Many of these precious truths lasted about one generation.
    One of the LDS church’s other brag is that they have modern day apostles and prophets. I say so what? Anyone can be advertised as an apostle or prophet. In the LDS church system it’s become a political designation given to the men who’ve been able to work themselves up to the top of the pile.

  33. falcon says:

    I think that the key hook in LDS sect Mormonism is that a member has to “earn” it. So if the system can convince a person of this, then the system will be served. That’s the whole deal with the LDS program. Get the folks hooked and then just light their tail on fire and keep them running. Instill enough fear and guilt and they are controlled.

  34. grindael says:


    Here is the real mind blower. They say, “as pertaining to all of the gifts of the Spirit, with reference to the receipt of revelation, the gaining of testimonies, and the seeing of visions, in all matters that pertain to godliness and holiness and which are brought to pass as a result of personal righteousness…and keep[ing] his commandments“, and then you get to “call these gifts into operation.”

    You must EARN the Mormon “gifts”. But no one is righteous! Righteousness (according to Paul) is a GIFT based on FAITH (belief). Since God cannot look on sin with the least degree of allowance (according to Smith’s “revelations”) a Mormon must be PERFECT, to gain spiritual gifts.

  35. falcon says:

    Now is there any doubt in the mind of an LDS sect member that what they practice is “another gospel”? Paul warned about this in his letter to the Galatians. Paul even said that even if an angel came and preached another gospel, let him be accursed.
    The Bible is the enemy of Mormonism because it’s within the Bible that the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the gospel of grace and salvation by faith, is presented.
    But the LDS church gets these folks to believe that it’s through obedience to the commandments that they will receive their reward.
    I think our LDS friends would do well to read the Book of Acts and see that when people received the Gift of the Holy Spirit it wasn’t on the basis of obeying the commandments. The Gift of the Holy Spirit was received by faith in the Lord Jesus. Now as a result of faith and being born again, believers do obey the commandments because it’s now written on their hearts. The obedience to God’s standard comes about because of this change, not out of compulsion.

    No wonder these Mormons get beaten like a borrowed mule by the LDS system. These poor dupes can never do enough or ever become good enough because at the end of the day, they fall short. I fall short everyday but because I walk in the light as He is in the light, the Blood of Jesus continually cleanses me from all unrighteousness and the requirements of the Law are met.
    It is easily seen why the LDS church teaches that the gospel was lost and that the Bible is corrupted. If someone believes that, their pathway to salvation through God’s grace and faith in Jesus Christ is blocked. They are then indebted to a religious system and a gospel that controls their lives and cannot provide for them eternal life.

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