Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

This video is described on You Tube as a “Humorous clip showing what activities are NOT suitable for Sunday by four LDS Young Women Leaders and a husband. Made for a Youth Standards Night Program…”

“Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.” (Colossians 2:16-17)

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120 Responses to Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

  1. NGZM says:

    For what it's worth: Sunday is NOT sabbath. Saturdays are, to be fair.

  2. Stewart. says:

    Brainwashed Mormons….crazy.

  3. Jeff says:

    While this is funny, I believe you may want to reexam your view of the Sabbath. A good place to start woud be Dr. Joseph Pipa's book The Lord's Day.

    "If because of the sabbath, you turn your foot from doing your won pleasure on My holy day, And call the sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable, And shall honor it, desisting from your own ways, From seeking you own pleasure, And speaking your own word, Then you will take delight in the Lord, And I will make you rise on the heights of the earth; And I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father, For the mouth of the Lord has spoken" Is. 58:13-14. You may also want to take a look at Dr. Ben Shaw's posts on the Col. passage you site.

  4. The Pastor of my church tells us all the time from the pulpit, People come to him and say this person is doing this or that, His response is I'm not the sin police, I cannot go after everyone over everything. You share the gospel with them and show them the truth. Were in the gospel is the LDS Sabbath police?

  5. f_melo says:

    That video is very embarrassing… and has many problems

    The first problem is with the "Sabbath" police. Well, the Sabbath isn´t on sunday and never was, it was always on the SEVENTH day. I admit i have not done my history study on the subject, but people who claim that the New Testament changes the day of the Sabbath haven´t really checked it carefully.

    In Acts 2:42-47 we read: "And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. And all who believed were together and had all things in common. And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved."

    So, they broke bread day by day, it wasn´t just on Sunday as other scriptures say they also did, never intending to set Sunday apart as the new Sabbath.

    The second problem is, if they want to actually call it Sabbath, and want to pretend to follow it, instead of a police officer arresting people they should depict the punishment according to the Law in the Old Testament: Death by stoning! It´s funny how mormons pick and choose what they want to believe and follow, and have the courage to call themselves a covenant people like Israel. What a joke!

  6. f_melo says:

    Now, contrast Acts 2:42-47 with this paragraph in the Gospel Principles manual:

    "Jesus taught that the Sabbath day was made for our benefit (see Mark 2:27). The purpose of the Sabbath is to give us a certain day of the week on which to direct our thoughts and actions toward God. It is not a day merely to rest from work."

    source – http://lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-2

    Right, because the first Christians always waited for that special day to worship Jesus. That´s the restoration of first century Christianity? Not even close.

  7. clyde says:

    Very comical video. Looks likes it was fun to make and very good for the lesson being taught. I myself know that at times it is hard to not go shopping but if you plan properly it can be done. I have a problem because I have to work sundays.

  8. f_melo says:

    Oh, the irony!!!!

    From the Gospel Principles manual:

    "However, some Jewish leaders made many unnecessary rules about the Sabbath. They decided how far people could walk, what kind of knots they could tie, and so forth. When certain Jewish leaders criticized Jesus Christ for healing sick people on the Sabbath, Jesus reminded them that the Sabbath was made for the benefit of man."

    Isn´t that what we just saw in the video? Unnecessary rules about it? What´s the problem of fishing on sunday? It´s a peaceful enough activity, right? Hmmm… it smells like hypocrisy to me.

    The Gospel Principles manual then gives us the guideline(rules) for "Sabbath" worship:

    "What kinds of things may we do on the Sabbath? The prophet Isaiah suggested that we should turn away from doing our own pleasure and should “call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable” (Isaiah 58:13).

    We should consider righteous things we can do on the Sabbath. For example, we can keep the Sabbath day holy by attending Church meetings; reading the scriptures and the words of our Church leaders; visiting the sick, the aged, and our loved ones; listening to uplifting music and singing hymns; praying to our Heavenly Father with praise and thanksgiving; performing Church service; preparing family history records and personal histories; telling faith-promoting stories and bearing our testimony to family members and sharing spiritual experiences with them; writing letters to missionaries and loved ones; fasting with a purpose; and sharing time with children and others in the home.

    In deciding what other activities we could properly engage in on the Sabbath, we could ask ourselves: Will it uplift and inspire me? Does it show respect for the Lord? Does it direct my thoughts to Him?

    There may be times when we are required to work on the Sabbath. We should avoid this whenever possible, but when it is absolutely necessary, we should still maintain the spirit of Sabbath worship in our hearts as much as possible."

    Since those are just guidelines, is it ok for me not to go to church and instead go fishing on a beautiful natural site, much more inspiring than that cold concrete structure, that also helps me think of God a lot more and to feel thankful for the beautiful earth He created for us?

  9. f_melo says:

    Last of all, why are those activities not ok, but it´s ok to spend the ENTIRE day stuck in a chapel, having to go through countless meetings talking about all sorts of problems, organizing activities, visiting people, etc. People even laugh when someone mentions that the Sabbath is a day of rest.

    When i was a kid both of my parents had Stake callings, and what was ridiculous about it was that my mother didn´t have a job because she wanted to stay home and take care of us, but on Sundays she actually had to hire a babysitter so that she could work in her callings all day long! For several years Weekends were when i knew i wasn´t going to see my parents and we wouldn´t spend any time together. I understand though, that that was her chance to get away from us for a little bit which was probably a good thing, but you get the irony…

    I guess it´s only work if it´s not for the benefit of the Church…

  10. Mindy says:

    In addition to all of the other obvious issues with this, why are the only culprits women?

  11. setfreebyjc says:

    obviously this is no "official" church video, but at least it brings out a problem. i may be wrong, but it seems like the mormon religion is especially prone to people trying to fix each other, and keeping up on each other's problems. it's a guilt thing, mostly, i figure. if i'm not living up to all of my church commandments – my visiting/home teaching, my sunday church job, my journal-keeping, temple-working, garden-growing, food-canning, scripture-studying, meeting-attending, tithing-paying requirements – well, it's a lot easier on my conscience if I can find and show how other people aren't up to snuff either. Sabbath police! sheesh. So glad I'm outta that church

  12. f_melo says:

    Where´s the Gospel in Mormonism? It isn´t there at all… the "Sabbath" is just a way to ensure that people will be available for Church callings and activities.

  13. Kate says:

    You know this has always bothered me. Although we didn't have these strict rules in our home, some of my friends did. They weren't allowed to listen to music, talk on the phone, watch t.v., read anything that wasn't faith promoting, and so on. Here's the problem, my friends ended up hating the Sabbath. They hated for Sunday to come around. They didn't want to go to church for hours on end listening to boring talks or fast and testimony meetings which were even worse. So tell me where worship is in all of that. Mormons are so concerned about what others are doing and worrying about what others will be thinking of them that they miss Christ all together.

    I have said for years (even when I was a mormon) that if mormonism is all about families then why are the people so busy with callings that they have absolutely no time for their children or spouse (not just on Sunday's either) . Now my thoughts are that it is just a form of control and religious busy work. I'm tired just thinking about it!

  14. Sarah says:

    I couldn't even watch the entire thing.

    I'll be back later with a better comment.

    In the meantime: Matthew 12:1-14

  15. jackg says:

    I noticed this, too. I guess the priesthood holders are more valiant????

  16. jackg says:

    Jeff,

    Your writing reminds me of Jeff Lindsay who writes Mormanity. Anyway…I think you make a wonderful point regarding the Sabbath. It should be a day that is made separate from the daily grind of life. It's important for establishing a rhythm of life that reflects a life dedicated to the Lord. There are prophetic Christians who actually speak to the issue of Christianity being a "way of life" and not just a "system of belief." I have come out of Mormonism, but still think that Mormons do a terrific job of presenting their "way of life" which has a particular rhythm to it. I think the bigger issue, however, is that this video reflects the Mormon approach to relationship with God, which is works-righteousness. Fishing on the Sabbath can bring someone closer to the Lord. I would want to avoid doing laundry on the Sabbath, but I won't condemn a believer who I see doing it. We don't want to be legalistic, and Mormonism is essentially legalistic.

    I appreciate your respect for the Sabbath, Jeff. It might be a matter of a way of life, but not salvation.

    Blessings…

  17. Kate says:

    Mindy,
    This particular video was made by the Young Women's leaders. It was to be used as a teaching tool for girls ages 12-18. Believe me, men and boys are not exempt from being judged if they are breaking the mormon Sabbath. What's funny to me is that at one of the convenience stores where I live, there's always a group of older (church going) mormon men sitting at a table drinking coffee. I've even seen them in their suits on the Sabbath.I wonder if their wives know what they are doing. 🙂 Not that I'm judging them at all, I have found that I love a cup of good coffee in the mornings. Guilt free!!

  18. Jeff, why would I want to read those books you quote and some man's Ideas when I can read the Bible and see what Jesus said.

    Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

    Add to that, the sabbath was for the Jews not us Gentiles. Jesus said the sabbath was for us, not us to be bound by doing things or not doing things, Then add to that Jesus was accused of breaking the sabbath, Did Jesus ever stop and say, sorry your right, I must follow the sabbath and sit around and do nothing.

  19. f_melo says:

    Great passage! Why are mormons forbidden to buy food(and other things) on sunday again? 😉

    You don´t actually need to watch the whole video, it´s the same thing over and over again.

  20. Sarah says:

    In the realm of buying food (and since they clearly get the Sabbath wrong)–

    Do you know what always confuses me (one of many things, honestly)?

    The Mormon preoccupation with "being prepared" —

    Mormon.org says: We believe in being prepared as much as possible for physical and financial disasters.

    Almost weekly it seems, we learn of a new disaster occurring somewhere in the world. But disasters can also happen privately within the walls of our homes. Calamities such as the loss of a job, an overwhelming debt, a serious injury, a home mortgage we can no longer afford to pay, and so forth. We believe in being as prepared as possible for such challenges. For example, we are advised to have an adequate supply of food, drinking water and financial reserves.

    Matthew 6: 25-34: 25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[e]?

    28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

    It CONTINUALLY amazes me how often Mormons completely ignore the words and teachings of Jesus and then turn right around and say, but his name is in the name of our church!

  21. f_melo says:

    Jeff, i´ll take a look at those references and get back to you as soon as i can. Meanwhile i have to ask you, if you´re a Mormon(i don´t remember you here before) and you´re a proponent of a modern-day Sabbath observance, do you actually observe it strictly as it is dictated by the Old Testament?

    For instance, do you kindle any fire(do you drive a car, or turn the oven on, etc.)? Do you apply the correct punishment ascribed to the breaking of the Sabbath day? Is your Sabbath in the day appointed in the Law, the seventh day of the week?(ask any Adventist about it, they´ll be glad to clarify that for you).

    I can understand how that could have been a difficult thing for the people in some ways(for merchants, especially), and i can´t imagine today an entire country stopping to run for an entire day either. Taking that into consideration i can begin to see how your comments can apply, but exclusively in that context. Let me make it very clear that that has nothing to do with what the Mormon Church proposes in any way whatsoever.

  22. f_melo says:

    Clyde, when at work do you keep the spirit of the Sabbath? Can you focus your thoughts on Jesus and worship him?

  23. The Bible says

    Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]

    Again, the Sabbath was for the Jews, not us Gentiles, and even Jesus pointed out to the hypocritical religious leaders that they broke the sabbath by saving sheep's that feel into pits. And I pointed out that Jesus said the sabbath was made for US, Not the other way around. So if we dont follow the sabbath then it's really not a big deal.

  24. f_melo says:

    Rick, that´s the thing, nobody keeps the Sabbath day at all. You either keep it as it is required by the Law or you don´t. You don´t get to pick and choose what "principles" regarding the Sabbath you´re going to apply in your life and then say that you keep the Sabbath because you don´t. That´s what Mormons do. Joseph Smith came up with a new "Sabbath" day with its own arbitrary rules of observance, thinking that he could replace the Law of Moses. He makes of Jesus a new law-giver, and completely disfigures the original Sabbath day.

    This is important to remember in these kind of discussions, as you´ve also just pointed out:

    Galatians 3:1-14 "O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”? Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

  25. f_melo says:

    I always thought that food storage was important, and i still do for some reasons. I´ve known people who survived off of it while they were unemployed. That being said, i completely agree with you Sarah. It was interesting that someone in my family brought up the fact that, for example, food storage made no difference in the area of Japan that was destroyed by the Tsunami, the water took it all… So, we shouldn´t put our trust in ourselves and our resources.

    Where the Mormon Church is mostly wrong is to include that in the "Gospel", and to say we believe in being prepared…. I believe in Jesus Christ. Being prepared for such disaster is prudent, but my trust isn´t in it, it´s in Jesus always. So, that´s just another way that the Church shows it´s not about Christ at all, it´s just a self-improvement club with the name of Jesus in front of it.

    "It CONTINUALLY amazes me how often Mormons completely ignore the words and teachings of Jesus and then turn right around and say, but his name is in the name of our church!"

    Even 3 Nephi 27:8 says

    "And how be it my church save it be called in my name? For if a church be called in Moses’ name then it be Moses’ church; or if it be called in the name of a man then it be the church of a man; but if it be called in my name then it is my church, if it so be that they are built upon my gospel."

  26. Jeff says:

    Mr. Hammer,

    I'm certainly not going to get into knock down drag out debate on the Sabbath, that was not my purpose in posting. My purpose was that the Sabbath is a biblical teachings and Christians should observe the Sabbath. It is intersting how quick you were to dismissed the OT in htis comment "Jeff, why would I want to read those books you quote and some man's Ideas when I can read the Bible and see what Jesus said." Of coruse, Mr. Hammer, I quoted scripture. All scripture is inspired by God, and profitable for corrections, etc. This includes the OT. Every wonder why the NT writers quote and support what they are saying with the OT.

    2nd, in your your quoting of Chist, you seemed to be saying that man can do whatever he wants on the Sabbath. is that really your position? Is what you really believe Jesus is saying here? What does it mean that the Sabbath is for me. It is easy to quote something like that, thinking it is opposition to my point. 3rd, Jesus did not come to abolish the Law. So again, you seem to have a problem with the OT, in which Jesus and the apostles never did.

    Continued…

  27. Jeff says:

    4th, you say "Add to that, the sabbath was for the Jews not us Gentiles." Not sure how you come up with this, but the sabbath is a creation ordinace (Gen. 2:1-3), a pattern that God himself established, long before there was a particular nation of Jews (i.e. Israel). 5th, you seem to have the idea that there is a seperation between Israel and the church, which I simply do not accept. We (Jew and Gentle) are all one people of God; Peter makes this pretty clear in 1 Peter 2:9, writing to the church (quoting the OT mind you and applying it to the church) "but you are a chosen race, a royal prieshood, a holy natuion, a people for God's own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you one were not a poeple, but now you are the people of God…" We are one people of God.

    Continued…

  28. Jeff says:

    Mr. Hammer, you state: "Jesus said the sabbath was for us, not us to be bound by doing things or not doing things" Of course, why the pharisees began looking at the Sabbath this way, no one I know of who hold to the sabbath being an ordinace of God, views it this way. It is not a matter of do a do nots. It is a matter of how best may I bring glory and honor to God. How would he have me to serve him…on a day that he set a part from the beginning of creation.

    Continued…

  29. Jeff says:

    Finally, you state "Then add to that Jesus was accused of breaking the sabbath, Did Jesus ever stop and say, sorry your right, I must follow the sabbath and sit around and do nothing."

    Wow, this really reveals you have not done any reading on this issues. Can you site me anyone (pre-reformation, post-reformation, puritan, etc., etc.) who holds this characterization of the Sabbath. You can't.

    Continued…

  30. Jeff says:

    Lastly, you write "So if we dont follow the sabbath then it's really not a big deal." No big deal. Even if we were to take Jesus simply as our example, we would follow him in keeping the Sabbath, as this is exactly what he did. Not only did he, but the apostles did as well. What was the custom on the Sabbath Mr. Hammer?

    For the other, others, there is no way that I can sit here and repond to each one of you the way I have with Mr. Hammer. I will say this, I never said, nor indicated (not sure who someone could have even thought so) that this issue had to do with salvation.

    Continued…

  31. Jeff says:

    BTW: One more thing, for a defense that the sabbath is not simply a Jewish practice, you may want to take a look at this article,

    In case you are concerned about the OPC, we have a former LDS Jody Morris, who writes in this edition of our denominational magazine.

  32. falcon says:

    Don't you just love religion? We get these sanctimonious religious types who pride themselves with Sabbath keeping but are probably committing all sort of sin every day of the week including the Sabbath. It's just a way for prideful men to puff themselves up like the Publican standing before the alter reciting all of his good deeds while the low-life Samaritan beats his breast confessing to God what a reprobate he is.
    I have read testimonies from exMormons who talk a lot about how in the Mormon culture, everyone is into everyone else's business and how appearances are everything. That would go a long way to explain the Sabbath police. I doubt if these folks know how ironic the whole thing really is.
    I was raised Catholic, which in my time was really legalistic. The problem comes up when we have the "rules" then the exception to the rules. I remember going through my little examination of conscience book before confession or my catechism; I think two hours of work was allowed on the Sabbath unless of course blah blah blah. That's what legalism and religion are to me; blah blah blah.
    It just interferes with my relationship with God.

  33. f_melo says:

    "4th, you say "Add to that, the sabbath was for the Jews not us Gentiles." Not sure how you come up with this, but the sabbath is a creation ordinace"

    I´m sorry but i read that passage and i didn´t see any commandment from God to Adam telling him he had to keep the Sabbath day – do you have any evidence that Adam or anyone kept the Sabbath day before the Law of Moses?

    "5th, you seem to have the idea that there is a seperation between Israel and the church, which I simply do not accept."

    You should read then that passage of Galatians i posted above. Yes there´s no longer a separation between Israel and the Gentiles who are a part of Jesus´ Church, but what Rick is talking about has to do with the Covenant God made with Israel and nobody else. Nobody else has the right to include themselves in it.

    These are the only requirements the Apostles made of the Gentiles:

    Acts 20:22-29

    "Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, with the following letter: “The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

  34. Sarah says:

    f_melo you always find what I'm trying to say and forget or miss, so thank you!

    I agree that it's smart to be well-prepared. In fact, my roommate and I were just talking about putting together an emergency preparedness kit just in case. I mean, getting stuck in an apartment in Manhattan in the event of something catastrophic does not sound fun at all! We're just ensuring we have water and matched and batteries and blankets. But being prepared because it's logical and smart is VERY different than it being an important enough part of "Christ's Church" that it warrants its own heading on mormon.org under "Our Faith".

    My faith teaches me to believe that God will always provide.

  35. f_melo says:

    "It is not a matter of do a do nots. It is a matter of how best may I bring glory and honor to God."

    So, please, explain to us which Gospel passage refers to us having to give glory to God through Sabbath observance? Can´t i give glory to God in Wednesday observances as well? Or what about the other Jewish festivals during the year? Do you observe those as well?

  36. f_melo says:

    "Even if we were to take Jesus simply as our example, we would follow him in keeping the Sabbath, as this is exactly what he did."

    I´ve tried following Jesus´ example before without much success. Once i tried to raise someone from the dead… nothing happened… it didn´t work with water turning into wine either… what am i doing wrong? Also, Jesus was circumsized – have you been circumsized? No? C´mon, you´re not following Jesus´ example either.

    We should love one another as Jesus loved us, i´m not denying that at all – but that idea that Jesus is our example is a very Mormon thing(and now i know it might be a Presbyterian thing as well). Jesus is our God, not someone we´ll ever measure up to. He didn´t come down to show us the way so that we could walk it on our own, He is The Way, so that by having faith in Him we are saved. His righteousness(not our own) will be imputed to us so that we´ll be declared innocent before God.

  37. Jeff says:

    f melo,

    I was responding to a particular point regarding Jesus and the disciples and their practice of the Sabbath. You not understanding my statement in context is a probablem with these types of forums, and it get real tiring to continue to correct someone for something I did not say…or misunderstand what I said, while not reading my point in context.

    Do your homework on this issue, it is a historic Christian position, only recently to be abandoned.

  38. Jeff, did you read the verse I quoted in Col about not Judging someone concerning the Sabbath? Second, If I am to follow Jesus example as you state, then he Himself was accused of working on the Sabbath. So if someone calls me and says, Brother can you help me out, my car broke down to I say no, I am only allowed to sit on my butt and do nothing.

    Plus the verse I bet you either never read or will trash talk if I quote is, Jesus said ALL THE LAWS ARE FULFILLED in these TWO. Love Jesus and love thy neighbor. If I love God and Love my neighbor Than I am FULFILLING the sabbath commandment. Stop being a pharisee and trying to put burdens upon people and making them twice a son of hell as Jesus clearly said.

  39. Engkei says:

    What is the bible literalist understanding of the 'sabbath day' then? Its included in the 10 commandments. Is this also only an LDS issue? My mother inlaw is Catholic, and she has a priest come here every once and awhile for communion, as she can't get out. She gets a brief mini service, and has a wafer and wine I think. Anyways, the priest told her that Sunday was a holy day of obligation. The term suggets its a required day like easter, christmas etc…for catholics to observe and attend services. They certainly didn't get this idea from Mormons. So where did they get this idea? She generally doesn't do any 'work' on sunday, or a lot of activities that mormons refrain from also. This bible literalist downstairs works every day of the week, yet he seems to have religion on the brain more than she does.

  40. Jeff says:

    Mrs. Hammer,

    1st, I'm not putting burdens on anyone my friend, I simply requested that the author of the post simply rethink the idea of the sabbath, and I did this because he quoted the Col. passage.

    2nd, I'm not judging anyone on the sabbath, simply made a suggestion.

    3rd, clearly, you show you have not studied this issue, and that is ok. But, if you did, you'd know that those who hold to the Sabbath say that deeds of mercy and necessity are permitted (and we see example in the life of Christ, on the Sabbath). It is very unfortunate that you wax so well, a simply look at exegesis of the passage your mention, simply will not match your view, which is why I refereed you to Dr. Shaw's posts. If you don't want to read them, that's up to you, but you should speak like you know it all, when you clearly have not done any reading on this topic.

    How do you love God Mr. Hammer… You love God by doing doing what he commands.

  41. Jeff, you can call me Rick, No need to be formal and call me MR Hammer.
    Jeff said

    How do you love God Mr. Hammer… You love God by doing doing what he commands.

    You tell me I dont understand the sabbath, It seems to me you are the one who does not understand the Bible and read it, it seems you simply say what this author you quote from says.

    Go back to Genesis as you insist. The Bible tells us God Rested on the 7th day. It DOES NOT SAY, EVERYONE MUST REST on this day. No place after creation does the Bible teach we must observe a sabbath day. If it does give me exact chapter and verse.

    Then after the nation of Israel and the Jews were created the sabbath was commanded, But their was a very clear difference between Jews and gentiles. All the rules and blessings and cursing's were for the Jews, not us Gentiles.

    You read God punishing the Jews for not obeying the laws of God and even read about a man being stoned for picking up sticks on the sabbath day. You never read about this happening to Gentiles. Then when Jesus came along, the religious leaders said to Jesus, what WORKS MUST WE DO, Notice works is plural. What did Jesus say to them? Jesus said, that their is only ONE WORK, That is to believe on whom God hath sent. So if your going to ask me if I do the commands of God, then according to God All I must do is believe and so yes I do believe and am doing as He says.

    Then if thats no good enough, as I stated, Jesus said all the LAWS are summed up in these two things, Love God and love your neighbor, If I do these then I am living out the law and Gods commands, that includes keeping the sabbath. If your going to try and tell me I am wrong, then give me chapter and verse from the Bible, Not what you think or what some book says or tell me to read a book. Show me from the Bible and prove it.

  42. f_melo says:

    "Mr. Hammer", kkkkk that was funny!

    "All scripture is inspired by God, and profitable for corrections, etc. This includes the OT. Every wonder why the NT writers quote and support what they are saying with the OT. "

    And they did to show how Jesus was the fulfillment of those passages, not to set up new rules.

    "Jesus did not come to abolish the Law"

    Yes, but you´re forgetting to mention that Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law! That means that God didn´t change His mind, and the Law will always be valid, but what is also true is that we still won´t be able to keep it perfectly, and that´s why Salvation doesn´t come by works of the Law but by faith in Jesus.

  43. f_melo says:

    Alright, but before i do my homework, please answer the question – are you circumsized? I want to know your criteria to following Jesus´ example. You know, how do you pick and choose what to follow and what not to follow…

  44. f_melo says:

    "What is the bible literalist understanding of the 'sabbath day' then? Its included in the 10 commandments."

    That´s kind of been explained here, Engkei in a few different ways. The Sabbath was part of the 10 Commandments, it was a day of rest which the people of Israel had to observe and it still is observed somewhat in Judaism to this day.

    For a Christian, especially a Gentile(of non Hebrew origin), it means nothing so far as theology or worship is concerned. But since the first Christians were also Jews and they held their traditions very strongly they still observed much of the Law of Moses. You also had the problem of Jews trying to tell the Gentiles that for them to follow Christ they had to obey the Law of Moses, by being circumsized, etc. So, as i mentioned some comments above, the Apostles made clear that the Gentiles would not be required to keep the Law of Moses.

    So, this whole debate is about men trying to do works to please God, it´s works-righteousness as someone else here already talked about.

    This is an interesting article about how Sunday became a day of worship in Christianity – i haven´t checked the sources but it seems to me to be a good place to start: http://www.biblehistory.com/The%20Origin%20of%20S

  45. f_melo says:

    I took a look at that article, most of it were assumptions and his opinions. He failed to make a solid Biblical case for it. He also just defined Sunday as the Sabbath day, just like that – no basis on scripture there either.

  46. f_melo says:

    "2nd, I'm not judging anyone on the sabbath, simply made a suggestion."

    I think you´re suggesting we all should repent for not keeping the Sabbath Sunday day…

  47. f_melo says:

    I´m doing my homework, i´m reading this article about the history of Sunday worship: http://www.biblehistory.com/The%20Origin%20of%20S

    So far your position has been thoroughly refuted by history. It may be part of the history of Christianity but it´s just tradition not commandment.

  48. falcon says:

    I guess I don't know what a "Bible literalist" is so someone is going to have to help me out with that. Christians should all be Seventh Day Adventist in our approach to our practice of our faith, right? Would these folks be considered "Bible literalist" since they worship on Saturday and work on Sunday?
    As far as I'm concerned, what someone does on Sunday is their own business. I wouldn't let a religious denomination dictate to me how I practice my faith. My faith is my personal relationship with Jesus Christ. It has little or nothing to do with a list of rules and prohibitions developed by some denominational higher ups.

  49. clyde says:

    I try the best I can but at times I just think of it as another day at work instead of the sunday that it is.

  50. It was said

    Almost weekly it seems, we learn of a new disaster occurring somewhere in the world. But disasters can also happen privately within the walls of our homes. Calamities such as the loss of a job, an overwhelming debt, a serious injury, a home mortgage we can no longer afford to pay, and so forth. We believe in being as prepared as possible for such challenges. For example, we are advised to have an adequate supply of food, drinking water and financial reserves.

    I dont think we should be building up food and water reserves because take Japan for example, If we were to store up tons of food and then got hit with a massive earthquake or even bombed with a nuclear weapon Do you really feel all that food and water would survive? Lets say for the sake of argument it did, Would you really start sharing it with everyone that came to your door? Or would you kill someone to make sure no one took it? I mean we have seen major disasters before and what always happens? People fight for food and water and even loot and will kill, so you cannot convince me that if you store up tons of food and something happens your willingly going to share all your food and preach the gospel as you share that food. Some would, but not everyone. Plus as it has been pointed out, the Bible tells us not to store up food and worry about tomorrow.

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