God is Not a White Man

“He makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.” (Matthew 5:45)

“I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee…” (Hosea 11:9)

“But will God in very deed dwell with men on earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built!” (2 Chronicles 6:18)

“but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8; something I wish the video visualized)

Think about the contrast: We could literally spatially contain the deity of the Mormon God in a coffin. While our God became a man, the Mormon deity is just a man who became an exalted man.

It’s hard to fit Love in a coffin.

Further reading: Two natures of Jesus

This entry was posted in Nature of God, Nature of Man, Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

84 Responses to God is Not a White Man

  1. grindael says:

    Is NOT what he said. You added the “they are most likely not fully committed to living it”. He says nothing of the kind. He simply said that those who stand up in Conference and speak, give the words that Jesus would give if he were there, and if you don’t agree, you are “out of harmony with the Spirit of the Lord.”

    This means that if you do not follow what they say, you are in error. Whatever you want to call this, you are required to ‘blindly follow’, or you are ‘out of harmony’ with God. _johnny

  2. falcon says:

    Clyde,
    You wrote:
    “It is amazing that the reference to the two natures of Jesus refers to the council of Chalcedon. Which took place 400 years after the resurrection of christ-425 A.D. This was adopted as orthodox doctrine at that time. If I understand things correctly then If you taught something differently it would be considered heretical. So the people in power-church and Kings along with all other minor officials-forced this upon people, After all they were the only ones with an education. ”

    Are you really sure you want to go there? If there’s one thing that Mormons are possibly worse at then Biblical interpretation it is the early history of the Christian church. Your comment sounds like something that is passed around the wards as a way of justifying Joseph Smith’s truly bizarre teachings. Like I’ve often said, what Smith taught isn’t even good heresy.
    I think you need to go to some reference works by experts in the field of early Christian history. If you want to slug your way through a good book pick up a copy of “Early Christian Doctrines” by J. N. D. Kelly. A synopsis of the work says:
    “This revised edition of the standard history of the first great period in Christian thought has been thoroughly updated in the light of the latest historical findings. Dr. Kelly organizes an ocean of material by outlining the development of each doctrine in its historical context. He lucidly summarizes the genesis of Christian thought from the close of the apostolic age to the Council of Chalcedon in the fifth century-a time teeming with fresh and competing ideas.”
    When one reads what the early Church Fathers wrote, you’re struck by the enormity of their intellect, the depth of their understanding, and their respect for the traditional teachings of the Church.

  3. Mike R says:

    Helen, I see by the tone of your reply that what I posted concerning Mormon teachings
    about our Creator being a white man and thus living like all other men , bothered you .
    Since it appears that you agree that these teachings are false doctrine , then are those
    who taught them false teachers ? You asked for references on these teachings . I will be
    happy to furnish this info , but first I need to remind you that I to am waiting , waiting
    for your reply to what I asked you personally on Sept.4 at 8:36 am . Dialogue should be
    respectful even if we disagree don’t you think ?

    One last note here. You seemed to have already made up your mind to easily dismiss what
    I may respond with because you’ve already decided that these teachings are only someone’s
    “opinion” just because you hav’nt run across them or that the Standard Works do not teach
    them ( There’s a lot that could be said about that ) . Waiting to hear from you . Thanks .

  4. falcon says:

    The earliest form of what later became creeds was a set of questions based on Jesus’ command to baptize disciples in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). The early Church asked candidates for baptism three questions following a Trinitarian pattern.
    Do you believe in God the Father Almighty?
    Do you believe in Christ Jesus, the Son of God,
    Who was born of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary.
    Who was crucified in the days of Pontius Pilate, and died, and rose the third day living from the dead and ascended into the heavens and sat down at the right hand of the Father, and will come to judge the living and the dead?
    Do you believe in the Holy Spirit in the Holy Church, and the resurrection of the flesh?
    This example is from the third-century Roman presbyter Hippolytus.
    The early creeds focused on the “work” of Christ. The Nicene Creed added an emphasis on the “person” of Christ.
    In the end, the Nicene Creed represented a large-scale attempt to answer the question, “Do you know whom you worship?” Christianity’s central convictions that God is one and Christ is God had to be put into a cohesive statement that preserved the integrity of both.
    The Councils didn’t “invent” doctrine. The Councils defined what the Church Fathers taught as handed down by the Apostles who were taught by Jesus. The Nicene Creed, for example, was crafted according to the intention of church tradition and Biblical principles.
    (attribution: Christian History Issue 85; “Debating Jesus’ Divinity: The Council of Nicaea and its bitter aftermath)
    So the early Church debated who Jesus is according to the Scriptures and the traditional teachings of the Church. The teaching traditions came through the Bishops, the guardians of the faith.

  5. falcon says:

    So where does the the notion of the Mormon god, Mormon Jesus, Mormon Holy Ghost and Mormon Holy Spirit come from? It certainly doesn’t come from the Scriptures. It doesn’t come from the tradition of the Christian Church. It doesn’t even come from the BoM.
    Smith’s idea of who God is didn’t come from a revelation from God because (Smith’s) rendering of God disagrees with who God says He is in His revealed Holy Word.
    Joseph Smith conjured it up and subsequent Mormon “prophets” stretched their imaginations and frolicked in the playground Smith created.

  6. helenlouissmith says:

    Johnny tries to make a point:

    “Is NOT what he said. You added the “they are most likely not fully committed to living it”. He says nothing of the kind. He simply said that those who stand up in Conference and speak, give the words that Jesus would give if he were there, and if you don’t agree, you are “out of harmony with the Spirit of the Lord.”

    Of course, it’s what I speculated. Since your into speculation obviously, why can’t I also speculate as to why someone might be out of harmony. Many reasons: sin, inactivity, new convert old ideas, does not agree, has yet to get a confirmation from the HG, etc, etc, etc.

    Hence we find the Words of Jesus in the Bible, does everyone agree, is everyone in harmony, and if not why?

  7. grindael says:

    Helen,

    I did not speculate as to ‘why’ people were told they were out of harmony. I simply quoted Romney who said:,

    “It is our high privilege to hear, through these men, what the Lord would say if he were here. If we do not agree with what they say, it is because we are out of harmony with the Spirit of the Lord.”

    He said what he said. It’s self explanatory. There is no need to “speculate” on what he is talking about. He says that if you don’t agree with what the Authorities of the Church (“these men”) say, you are “out of harmony” with the “Spirit”. Period. And those words, says Romney, are “what the Lord would say if he were here.” Not too hard to comprehend, unless one wants to ‘spin’ it into something else, like you are trying to do.

    As for you other question, it’s a Red Herring. I’m not biting. _johnny

  8. Rick B says:

    Helen said

    Hence we find the Words of Jesus in the Bible, does everyone agree, is everyone in harmony, and if not why?

    I’m hungry, so I’ll bite. LOL.

    If people choose not to believe or agree with Jesus, then it’s simple, Either they are a false prophet/teacher as Jesus said some would be. Or they know what Jesus said and dont like it so they choose to do what they want. I see that with Mormons, They see more evidence proving they are wrong, and they blindly turn away. Jesus also told some people, You err and do not know scripture, So maybe they simply are in error and need to be corrected.

  9. grindael says:

    Why? Because Jesus said so, that’s why:

    “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

    “‘a man against his father,
    a daughter against her mother,
    a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—

    36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’

    37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.” (Matthew 10)

    Those who love a Church more than Jesus are not worthy of Him.

  10. helenlouissmith says:

    “Those who love a Church more than Jesus are not worthy of Him.”

    Amen to that, but only if the Church is not Christ.

    Christ is the Church, members who believe in a Plan of love, justice and mercy, also believe in Christ.
    What does the Church teach, it teaches us what Christ taught, serving others and helping them to come unto Christ. It comes from working hard and having a healthy lifestyle, friends, family, and personal achievements. Regardless of what you do or don’t have in this life, your deepest, most lasting happiness will come from knowing God’s plan and following it.

  11. helenlouissmith says:

    Ok Rick B.
    Hence we find the Words of Jesus in the Bible, does everyone agree, is everyone in harmony, and if not why?”

    Where is the unity of Faith in Christians sects or different denominations, why is there not just one Doctrine, one membership, one Church? No Harmony Between Biblical Christians and Catholics.

    Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Corinthians 1:10

    I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, entreat you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing forbearance to one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. (NASB) Ephesians 4:1-3

    Read Jesus’ prayer in John 17:15-23. He not only prays for unity among his disciples then and now. He also mentions why we need to be one in Christ.

    Jesus’ admonition concerning lack of understanding, regarding the Bible, is apparent in most discussions concerning Scripture: “You are misled because you do not know the scriptures or the power of God.” Mt. 22:29

  12. Rick B says:

    Helen said

    What does the Church teach, it teaches us what Christ taught, serving others and helping them to come unto Christ.

    I cant believe you said this? The reason why I say that is, because You and the vast majority of LDS do not do this. I cannot tell you how many times I or others have pointed out, you LDS are quick to tell us were are wrong and why, but yet never show us or “teach” us why we are wrong or how. So you clearly do not believe your own words, because if you do, you clearly dont live them out, and you know I have a word for that.

    Helen said

    Where is the unity of Faith in Christians sects or different denominations, why is there not just one Doctrine, one membership, one Church? No Harmony Between Biblical Christians and Catholics

    Ok, Lets see here, I have an answer for you, but I will not give it to you. Why? Because you never answer us, Mike R even reminded you, he had a question, you asked him one and until you answer he wont either. Also, I could put this question back on you and ask, why do we have so many sects of Mormonism, with the biggest 3 being the LDS, the RLDS, and the FLDS? How come their is no Unity? How come you dont have One Doctrine? One church? I know, do you?

  13. grindael says:

    Helen said,

    “Regardless of what you do or don’t have in this life, your deepest, most lasting happiness will come from knowing God’s plan and following it.”

    I disagree. This is the most lasting happiness:

    “Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”

    On the other hand, Mormon “authorities” have said things like this:

    “If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.” (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, page 670).

    This is a lie. Jesus said:

    “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father EXCEPT THROUGH ME. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him AND HAVE SEEN HIM.”

    “But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name” (John 1:12).

    “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Romans 10:13).

    Shall be saved means not maybe, nor can, but shall be saved. But you have to have the right Jesus.

    “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.”

  14. grindael says:

    “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”

    Some of the fruits of Mormonism are forced ‘regulations’, forced adultery (polygamy- still in the D&C), Adam-god, blood atonement, revenge temple oaths, idol worship (worshiping a god made in the image of a corruptible man), and racism to name a few. These are “fruits” said to be given by direct “revelation”, by “prophets” that claim to speak directly for God.

    The New Covenant does not require forced regulations.
    The New Covenant condemns adultery (which Smith & following “prophets” committed in violation to the laws of the land).
    The New Covenant does not teach blood atonement. (murder, & required in temple ceremony)
    The New Covenant condemns revenge and oaths (required in temple ceremony)
    The New Covenant condemns idol worship of “corruptible men”
    The New Covenant condemns racism. (Brigham Young’s hideous doctrine of excluding blacks from their ‘priesthood’ and temples based on skin color).

    These ‘fruits’ are the Mormon god’s “plan”, that they have been forced to follow (by claimed revelation), and though some are changed, they are still defended as ‘revelations’. Mormon ‘prophets’ have said that their ‘priesthood’ and Church is what saves people, with Jesus only being a ‘byproduct’ of it. This is a false Gospel, revealed by false prophets._johnny

  15. Mike R says:

    Johnny, well said ! When Jesus said that , ” by their fruits you will know them ” , He
    was giving us a way to identify counterfeit prophets. These religious teachers “fruit” i.e.
    their teachings , are to be evaluated by scripture [ Acts 17:11 ] to see if they are indeed
    endorsed by God, and you listed some great examples of why Mormon prophets and apostles
    fail the evaluation . When the tack record of these men are examined we can see why those
    Mormons like Helen will resort to rationalizing a way to avoid the clear implication of what
    the record reveals, which is that she is following modern day false prophets. One aspect of
    all this that many LDS do not stop long enough to ponder is that they see to think that all false
    prophets are evil men , but false prophets can be moral individuals who constantly stress the
    need to live a life that Jesus approves of etc. They are false prophets because they teach
    inaccurate doctrines concerning important truths about God and also how a person can
    receive eternal life , and you touched on some of these fundamental issues . I think a part
    of Helen recognized some of the fruits of Mormon teachers that I posted which concerned
    how God operates as an ordinary white man , and it bothered her spirit so much that she had
    to quickly fight it . This info was from a Mormon lady who was also troubled by it,
    but unlike Helen she was obedient to God and walked FROM her prophets TO Jesus .

  16. helenlouissmith says:

    Scenario, lets say I was non religious and decided too commit myself to investigating the religions of the world. What would I be looking for, where would I go, and who would I talk too.

    My journey would most likely involve studying, reading and visiting as many places of worship as possible. Lets say I finally decided on Christianity since my studies swayed me to believe they of all religions had a belief system more in line with my personal beliefs, of love and charity.

    Reading would be a primary source since my trust in man over the years has proven to me that all of us are corruptible, carnal and deceitful. What would I read, lets say it boiled down too the Bible and the Book of Mormon.

    Now reading for my self and listening to what other think the scriptures mean are again a trust or faith factor. The Scriptures tell us that there are ways to determine the truth. Roman Catholics, Orthodox Christians, and hundreds of Protestant sects don’t agree what is meant by many important Bible passages. For example, they disagree on the manner of baptism, who can perform baptism, at what age baptism is to be performed, and whether baptism is necessary for salvation.

    The more important question is, how do we know anything is true? If the Bible is the only way to evaluate spiritual truth, then how can we know the Bible is true?

    Continued,

  17. helenlouissmith says:

    Peter knew that Jesus, the Messiah, was God’s own Son. Jesus praised him and explained that this knowledge did not come to him from man or the scriptures written by men. This knowledge came by the spirit of revelation.

    Why is revelation so important, well for many who never had the privilege of seeing the cannon of scriptures come together and take form, they had to rely solely on the Spirit of God.

    Paul himself wrote:
    “And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.” (1 Corinthians 2:4-5)

    Back again to reading the Scriptures and why? Does God speak to us through the scriptures? and if so are we too trust them to be the sole measure of God’s truth? Could the Scriptures have been altered, text lost and misinterpreted. How would we know since man is the author and translator of that which is written. What is the best measure of truth? the Holy Ghost? revelation? Prophets of God?

    “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ…” Romans 8:16-17

    “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.” John 14:26

    So what is the message of the Bible and the Book of Mormon?

    Continued.

  18. helenlouissmith says:

    God reveals truth by the Holy Ghost to those who seek him. Angels, visions, inspired dreams, the voice of God, and spiritual impressions are all part of divine communication from heaven to men.

    “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.” (James 1:5)

    Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
    Matt 7:7

    4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

    5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

    Moroni 10:4–5

  19. Mike R says:

    Helen, allow me to comment on your last posts . It’s Sunday so I’ll try and make this short.
    My responses will be short and I’m also not going to type out any references from Mormon
    sources that I may mention ,if you desire these please ask.
    1. you mentioned that the scriptures tell us that there are ways to determine the truth. I agree.
    You next mentioned that different Christian groups don’t agree on important Bible passages,
    you mentioned baptism . This is’nt the scriptures fault nor God’s fault. Every person is still
    encouraged to read the Word of God and is accountable . Mormon leaders have not been
    without confusion over certain aspects concerning baptism either : It was once a “gospel truth”
    to require re-baptism for those entering the Temple for the first time prior to their endowments !
    You asked that if the Bible is the only way to evaluate spiritual truth, then how can we know the
    Bible is true? That’s a great question, and it does indeed involve the Holy Ghost. Today when
    the word of God is preached the Holy Ghost convicts those that hear it, this causes faith to be
    birthed in a person etc, see Rom 10:14-17. You then cited Peter’s confession of Jesus as coming
    not from men or the scriptures . Peter was an eye witness of Jesus’ miracles and His use of the
    scriptures ( O.T.) . Today however you have the written testimony of Peter that Jesus promised
    He would cause to be written down and preserved for you and I today—Jn 17:20 . Thus it is
    prudent for you to be obedient to Jesus , and the Holy Ghost, and use the Word to test prophets.
    cont.

  20. Mike R says:

    cont.
    You then stated that revelation is so important because many have never had the privilege
    of seeing the cannon of scriptures come together and take form, they had to rely solely on
    the Spirit of God. Helen , but you have the scriptures (canon) so you do have the measuring
    rod to evaluate the teachings of prophets etc. Also you may take notice of the fact of how
    your leaders ex-communicated Brian David Mitchell ( the ” prophet” who kidnapped
    Eilzabeth Smart ) , I doubt seriously that they prayed to know if he was a false prophet, as his
    teachings clearly violated the set standard of belief of your Church , ( sounds like a Gal.1:8-9
    type scenario ). You then asked what if the scriptures have been altered or mis-interpreted
    since they were translated by man . You don’t give God enough credit here. Of course anything
    is possible, but what does the evidence reveal ? Speaking of mis-interpreting the scriptures
    you may want to take note of how Mormon authorities have been guilty of this very thing.
    You quoted Rom. 8 :16-17 ; John 14:26 , I love these verses, and today we can be reminded of
    what Jesus taught His first apostles by reading the accounts , the Holy Ghost is involved here
    and helps us apply it to our lives. You ask about the message of the Bible and Book of Mormon.
    It centers around one True Creator God , and Jesus’ atonement . One God, not many Gods and
    Goddesses sexually producing more men who desire to be worshipped one day as Almighty
    Gods themselves . Now what about James 1:5 and praying about prophets ? I vote for 2Cor11:4

  21. helenlouissmith says:

    So what takes presitent, the Word of God as interpreted by man, this is known as Theology, or pure revelation from God to His appointed to reveal that which God wants us to hear in this day and time.
    I choose revelation over intellectual theology. God does not take a back seat and just allow anyone to assume or interpret meaning, such as the nature of God “Trinity” or other principles of His Word, but carefully and selectively chooses and calls those who are to be Apostles that reveal and teach His Word.
    What you have is one of two Churches, Gods true Church based on present and continuing revelation, or the Church that chooses to take the road based on intellectual theology, Orthodox Christianity.

  22. Mike R says:

    ” I choose revelation over intellectual theology.” So do I , and that’s why God has given us
    His Word . He has revealed (revelation) what He wants us to know about Him . I’m going
    with what God Himself has testified about Himself , ” ……that you may know and believe
    Me and understand that I am He…..” Isa.43:10 That is pure revelation is’nt it? But certain
    end-time (latter-day ) prophets seem to teach that this God is only a white man with white
    wives producing white babies, and that would be “intellectual theology ” . There are
    ultimately only two Churches , the true one with true spiritual leaders , and the other one
    which is run by well meaning but false spiritual leaders –Rev.2:2 ; Matt 24:11 .
    No prophet , no Temple , just Jesus . Because He is able ! Heb7:25

  23. helenlouissmith says:

    Good, and you think that the following are doctrine?

    Trinity, Rapture, Ex Nihilo, Chosen, Grace alone?

    Huh, in case you are in denial these intellectual bits of doctrine are still being argued even amongst Orthodox Christianity. You say revealed yet some say not so clearly. Of course this is where the Unity of Faith is still out to lunch. :-)

  24. Rick B says:

    Helen said

    Scenario, lets say I was non religious and decided too commit myself to investigating the religions of the world. What would I be looking for, where would I go, and who would I talk too.

    My journey would most likely involve studying, reading and visiting as many places of worship as possible.

    Whats sad is, You were asked by me shortly after you started posting on this blog if you looked into and stuided all the various religions to know which one was true, Basicly you stated no you did not.

    So you just assume they are all wrong and LDS is right with out really looking into the facts.

    Then Helen said

    Huh, in case you are in denial these intellectual bits of doctrine are still being argued even amongst Orthodox Christianity. You say revealed yet some say not so clearly. Of course this is where the Unity of Faith is still out to lunch.

    You sit here and basicly say we have no unity becasue we cannot agree on these issues, Yet you still avoid as you have before when I asked, Where is the unity in the LDS church? We have 3 large breaks, LDS, FLDS, RLDS, Who cannot agree on Doctrine. Then the possible 800 splinter groups. Where is the unity? You Hyprocite, Stop trying to tell us, we dont agree so we must be wrong, then you yourself cannot answer the question about your own church.

    We gave you answers to these questions before, you ignore the answers, then keep bringing up the question as if we never replied.

  25. Rick B says:

    Helen said

    more in line with my personal beliefs, of love and charity.

    I challange you to tell me where your love and Charity is, You dont have none, and dont even know what it is. You avoid questions we flat out ask over and over, you tell us we are wrong and dont have a clue, yet you never tell us where, why or how we are wrong, then you never sit here and try to reason and teach us. You have no love or charity. Give me a break.

  26. Rick B says:

    Helen said

    You then asked what if the scriptures have been altered or mis-interpreted
    since they were translated by man .

    Yep and the BoM was translated by a man, now we also have 4,000 plus changes to it, and in the topic, 10 reason why I’m not Mormon we see the name of a king changed from the Oringial BoM to the newest one. Yet again, No word from you. Big surprise, throw the Bible under the bus at every turn, then close your eyes and ignore the issues with the BoM.

  27. helenlouissmith says:

    Sharon, again we seem to have a problem with some here who continue to slander and do the name calling that is explicitly against CARM Rules. Is this going to be addressed or just given another pass by you.

    quoting Rick, B. ” You Hyprocite, Stop trying to tell us, we dont agree so we must be wrong, then you yourself cannot answer the question about your own church.”

    This time I truly hope for an apology, if this is Christian behavior, then I think some interpret this as OK, as for me I don’t think anyone here is qualified to judge another. Rick B. apparently does not subscribe to any meaningful study of the Word of God.

    Matthew 7:1, “Judge not that ye be not judged.”

  28. helenlouissmith says:

    Rick B. “I challange you to tell me where your love and Charity is, You dont have none, and don’t even know what it is.”

    Rick, I will tell you what love and charity is not.
    Love and Charity is not slandering someone else.

  29. Rick B says:

    Helen said

    again we seem to have a problem with some here who continue to slander and do the name calling that is explicitly against CARM Rules.

    Helen, A long time ago you called this board a CARM board 3-4 times. I recall Sharon correcting you, it is not a CARM board. Then when you say I slander you, It is not slander or breaking the rules to speak the truth.

    You say I am judging you, no I am not. If I see a guy who is drunk and say, He’s a drunk, I’m not calling him names or judging Him, I am simply saying what he is. If your going to complian, Then before you complain, provide evidence and prove me wrong, Until you can and do, I am not doing anything wrong. You are throwing out things about us, saying We christians say this, or teach this or cannot agree on certain things. Yet I can show examples of your church doing the same thing, and when I point them out to you, you ignore it and remain silent. This shows what I said about you is true and I am not judging you or am slanding you also the Bible tells us to Judge or inspect fruit of others. You say dont judge, Well tell me then, how do we decide if someone is lying? Or a wolf in sheeps clothing? Or a false prophet? We look at the evidance and make a judgment.

    Jesus told people they were in error of scripture, if someone is in error or wrong, we can tell them and like Jesus, state where and how. That was what I did.

  30. Mike R says:

    Helen, I’m not in denial . What intrigues me is how we went from discussing the theme of
    this thread ( God is not a white man ) , to you saying that I’m in denial . Not sure why you
    did that . Oh well. I think I’ve posted enough info on this thread topic for you to consider
    that trusting your prophets and apostles to provide consistently dependable spiritual truth
    on this and other vital issues, is not in your best interest . God’s sole mouthpiece is not a
    white man sitting in Salt Lake City, rather God’s mouthpiece is sitting on the right hand of
    the Father in heaven . He can change your life Helen because He is able ! Let Him–2Cor 6:2

  31. Kate says:

    Honestly Helen, I don’t think that Rick is slandering. I’ve read the posts by both of you and he is right, you accuse but when shown your church is what you claim Christians to be, you ignore and won’t acknowledge it. It’s been this way since you started posting. You demand and accuse, but fail to admit your church has any issues. You have been not so nice in your posts as well. In all fairness, I would say that you get away with a lot here.

  32. Rick B says:

    Helen,
    I wish you were joking, but since your not, then here we Go. I must do this since you said I was slandering you. The dictionary Defenation of slander/slandering is.

    slan·der
       [slan-der] Show IPA
    noun
    1.
    defamation; calumny: rumors full of slander.
    2.
    a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name.
    3.
    Law . defamation by oral utterance rather than by writing, pictures, etc.
    verb (used with object)
    4.
    to utter slander against; defame.

    Notice what number two says.
    Now since all replys are time stamped, Go back and show me where you said something, I called you on it and you answered it with evidence. You cannot, so since you cannot, that shows I did not slander you. You really have no clue do you. Maybe if you would start answering questions and not dodge them. Also Kate even noticed you do this and said something. The Burden of proof is upon you to show I did it. You cannot prove it becasue you cannot and did not answer the questions.

    Also I wont state what Sharon said, But you and me both recived a private email and Sharon stated where she stands and why, so for you to call her out in the public like this is nothing more that trying to cause issues and makes you a well you know, I have two diffent words, one is a three letter word and one is a little longer.

    Also the Bible tells us that Satan is the accuser of the bretheran. It seems you follow in your fathers footsteps, since all you can do is accuse with out evidence.

  33. Helen wrote:

    “Sharon Lindbloom, I would appreciate letting us know were you stand on Mormon Coffee posters using slanderous verbiage.”

    Helen, I made it clear where I stand regarding your allegations of “slanderous verbiage” in the private email I sent you on the 26th. Evidently you do not agree with my position or my decisions regarding the moderation here on Mormon Coffee. I believe this gap in our respective tolerance for pointed but accurate discussion cannot be bridged; therefore, it is my opinion that Mormon Coffee is not a good fit for you. To avoid further disagreements over what is and is not acceptable discourse here, I bid you farewell and hope you find a place for discussion that is more suitable to your sensibilities.

  34. Mike R says:

    Helen, may God help you to see beyond the personal clashes you have had with others
    on this site and help you see that the way to eternal life is not in following a prophet or
    in Temple rituals , but rather the way to peace with God and eternal life is in a person .
    Jesus is that person . May you come to see in Him all that is needed for you to be reconciled
    to God . Receiving eternal life is not in an elaborate system of “requirements” issued by
    a prophet, it is gained by surrendering your will to Jesus and asking Him to personally
    forgive you of your sins., then you’ll experience how majestic He is , and how personal He is .
    Heb.7:25 is so awesome , so please consult it . May God direct your path —-to Jesus .
    Praying for you and your husband.
    Mike

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