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124 Responses to Paige Richardson’s Testimony Out of Mormonism And Into the Arms of Jesus
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Awesome.
Paige (if you’re there), rest in God’s goodness, His faithfulness, His timing, and His love for your family. My family of 10 (my parents and 8 kids) are now all ex-Mo, 9 are saved. He is working for your family, I really believe that.
Wow, He’s AWESOME! :)!
Wow! My soul resonated with what Paige said. I have gone through the same experiences, and my heart for the Mormons is just like hers, which reflects Paul’s heart for the Jews as expressed in Romans 10:1-4. I found it interesting how she reached that point when she asked God to reveal the truth, whatever that was–if the LDS Church was true, then she would follow; if it wasn’t true, then she would follow that path. I, too, reached that same crisis moment in my life. In fact, I faced that moment several times: my conversion experience, and when my son left for and came home from his mission. I have to admit that when my son came home, I WANTED the LDS Church to be true. I cried out to God to restore my testimony about JS if that was indeed what needed to happen in my life. How did God respond? He put people in my life who, without even realizing they were being used in His hands, spoke words of affirmation concerning my conversion. He also led me through the same passages He had used when leading me out of Mormonism. He reminded me of what He had already done in my life! He did this all with patience and love–I could really sense that about His character doing those times. I praise and love God for Who He is, and what He does in our lives reveals His character and the essence of His Being and His Heart. There’s a reason we have the biblical model of Moses reminding the Israelites what God had already done in their history in order for them to go forward into the unknown with faith in a faithful God who always Delivers! That’s what He did with me, and the last occasion nearly two years ago solidified my testimony that God led me out of the bondage of Mormonism and into the freedom of the true gospel of Jesus Christ. God is indeed working to redeem the Mormons. The stories of all former Mormons are a witness to this marvelous truth!
Peace and Grace!!
Dear jackg,
Thanks for reminding us of God’s faithfulness, and how He has revealed to you His marvelous person and work through the pages of the Holy Bible. I love the passage from Romans chapter 10 you cited.
Once, there was a time when all of us here were ignorant of the righteousness that comes from God. Each of us here who have been saved now have a perfect life. As Dr. D. James Kennedy once said, “I just didn’t live it. Christ lived it for me.”
Dear setfree,
So happy to hear of the salvation you and so many of your family have in Christ Jesus. I have prayed for your family member whom you love, and so wish to have the glorious spiritual blessings which you do (Eph. 1).
Dear Paige,
My computer is not equipped for video, but it is clear from the posts of others that you have shared a beautiful testimony of the eternal life that God has given you from the bounty of His love. Thank you for sharing what God has done in your life.
If you are like many others, you once could never have imagined what God did to purchase your salvation from judgment. That God would become man, and had purposed before the world began that our judgment would fall upon Him.
Thank you again for sharing your testimony, Paige. God has indeed blessed you.
Interesting.
I know quite a few people who have converted from Traditional Christian churches to the LDS church and they thank Heavenly Father for the opportunity they had to either grow up in a Christian environment or to be brought to the knowledge of Jesus through a Traditional Christian church but they now know the folly of their past beliefs and because of this they thank Heavenly Father for the further truth and knowledge they have received from the LDS church.
These people were from Lutheran backgrounds (my friends in Finland), Anglican backgrounds (my parents and a few others here in Newcastle) and some other backgrounds I have not asked about but I do believe that one was Pentacostal.
Its all relative as to what we wish/want to believe in. The definition of faith in the Bible is “the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” (Hebrews 11:1) As someone said on another article, we see the evidence we want to see to keep our faith. If faith is the evidence of things not seen then we LDS have a lot of faith don’t we! And yes we do have faith in Jesus, albeit we believe in Him differently to Traditional Christians.
Ralph,
“the SUBSTANCE of things hope for, the EVIDENCE of things not seen”… the actual PROOF that what God has said is true, though we cannot see Him. This does not make it “relative as to what we wish/want to believe in”.
Your church teaches that Lucifer was the good guy because he went behind God’s back and helped Eve disobey so we could all become gods. Show the SUBSTANCE of your upcoming godhood. Show the EVIDENCE that there is salvation without Christ.
What was being expressed above was the SUBSTANCE of what was hoped for (peace, joy) and the EVIDENCE of God because what He says in the Bible has shown up in our lives. I know you can’t hear. I’ll tell you the truth though Ralph. I really wish you could understand what we’re talking about.
Nice try Ralph, but you’re not going to spoil this lady’s testimony. I get a kick out of your attempts to highjack this thread….very naughty Ralph. But you really don’t have any other choice but to try and discount the Christian witness of this woman who left Mormonism because it’s an affront to what you believe.
I would guess that your examples were told all of the secret truths about Mormonism before they joined-up with the Morg. I keep reading from exMos, especially the converts, that they didn’t konw what they were joining when they joined the Mormon church. Most don’t have a clue about the whole Joesph Smith story and certainly nothing about the Mormonism/occult connection. Generally they are clueless about the Mormon doctrine of the nature of God and the Masonic temple throat cutting and disembowelment rites practiced until word got out and it was changed in 1990.
I keep reading stories of these Mormon converts who, once they figured-out what they were into, jumped ship. Right now two-thirds of those on the rolls of the Mormon church are nonactive and half of the returning missionaries are AWOL from the morg.
So Ralph, now I’m going to hear about the one person who you told the whole story to and, wouldn’t you know it, that’s why they joined the morg. Been there with you before Ralph. We all know there are more folks going out the back door than are coming in the front. We also know the juggling that goes on with the Mormon numbers, counting those born in the Mormon church as new members etc.
So thank you Lord for this woman’s wonderful testimony of how she was enlightened of the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and hearing she believed and secured her salvation through your Son Jesus Christ.
Hey guys this is a prayer request and info on what happened.
I was home chilling out and Nathanial (my 9 year old son) comes running in the house all smiles, He was saying, DAD, DAD, I ran into Mormons outside and told them you would love to speak to them. Then he said, the Mormons told him they would be over shortly. I never knew they were outside, But they came over at 7:45, I have my Picture taken with them since Shelli (my wife) has some Mormon Scrap booking stuff for me. We talked for about 30 Minutes and Nathanial stood their the whole time listening.
Then he ran and grabbed my J.S.T of the Bible when I mentioned that to the Mormons. I asked the Mormons Why is it if I claim I prayed about the BoM and God either tells me to Search the Scriptures (Acts 17:11) Or tells me JS is a false Prophet, then it is either I did not pray sincerely, or somehow it’s my fault. They had no answer, but asked me if I would pray about the BoM one more time, Since they know this will be the time I really hear from God.
Then they asked me, is their a time we can meet you again, I said this Wed, they said is their anything we can research to talk about with you on Wed. I said the nature of God, Since if you get that wrong then your off on everything. So they said they would study up on the Nature of God and we will meet this Wed. Also I wrote Jim and invite him over, Not sure yet if he can make it, But if anyone here, Mormon or other wise, is welcome over to talk, And yes STRONG BLACK COFFEE will be provided. Rick b
I would concur with Ralph.
For every “Paige” leaving the LDS Church there are at least a dozen others leaving the false traditions of Protestantism (the philosophies of men mingled with scripture) to join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints – the only true and living Church upon the face of the earth. I have met many such converts who praise the Lord that Christ has brought them to the eternal truths of Restored Gospel. These converts praise Jesus that they have been freed from the horrible bondage of the false doctrines of men.
I pray in Christ’s name every day that those poor, wretched souls entrapped by the evils of Protestantism will be delivered from the darkness of their bondage by the infinite love of Jesus Christ – my Lord and Saviour – and brought to the Lord’s Church.
Setfree,
faith is faith, regardless of what it is placed in. I can have faith that the sun will come up tomorrow morning. I can have faith the light will turn on when I push the button. Some people have faith in science and evolution. The definition of faith in the Bible describes all of these, including faith for Salvation. And yes, it is a choice. This can be seen by your acceptance of other Christian denominations that believe the same core doctrine but have varying other doctrines. You made a choice what you wanted to believe in and they made theirs, and sometimes these choices are at opposition with each other.
As to your question “Show the SUBSTANCE of your upcoming godhood?” I have found the evidence I need from the Bible to allow me to believe in that doctrine. Your next question about salvation without Jesus has me puzzled because we never teach that. And if you are an ex-LDS then you should know that, meaning that you are now bearing false witness, or you never fully understood the teachings of the church.
Falcon,
You are quick to defend others’ testimonies that believe as you do but quick to discount the testimonies of those who do not. What is the difference between you and me in that respect?
As far as the number of LDS that are inactive or ‘going out the back door’, Jesus taught in the parable of the 10 virgins that not everyone that belongs to His true church will make it to live with Heavenly Father. Also, Jesus had some disciples that left Him and decided to follow other beliefs (John 6:66). So I have no concern about a numbers game in that respect – besides, numbers (in this respect) do not prove anything to be true or false, just popular or unpopular. I do have the concern that these people who are leaving are losing the truth and following the world to their eternal condemnation.
Oh my, dozens leaving Protestantism. Really? And we know that how and does it really matter? I guess they must all be immoral or someone must have offended them because we all know that’s the only reason someone would leave Protestantism. You poor Mormons just don’t get it, do you?
OK, I need to clue our Mormon friends into something here and it’s very important so pay attention. Whether someone is a member of a Christian denomination is immaterial to the status of their immortal soul. There are probably countless numbers of folks sitting in pews out of habit who aren’t born again. Being a member and going through the rites of an organized church doesn’t get someone saved, got it? A person is saved by faith, not by works. Check it out. It’s in the Bible.
If you can give me some statistics regarding how many folks who are born again and part of the mystical body of Christ who turn their backs on the Lord, then I’ll be truly impressed. You see that’s the problem with Mormonism of the SLC brand at least. It’s a different religion from Christianity with a false god and a false gospel.
See the reason people join Mormonism in the first place is that they’re so impressed when the missionaries start them off with the truly impressive information that Joseph Smith “translated” the golden plates by putting his magic rock in a hat and “divinating” the words on the golden plates….which is really impressive since the plates weren’t even present. Armed with this information, folks can’t wait to get into the program.
“You mean Elder Jones, he really had a magic rock? Will I get one too if I join? That’s better than a decoder ring. Sign me up.”
Falcon,
The LDS Church recorded 265,593 convert baptisms for the year 2008. Of which, the great majority were previously members of some Christian denomination.
You state that: “Whether someone is a member of a Christian denomination is immaterial to the status of their immortal soul.”
Most Christians would disagree with your narrow interpretation of the scriptures.
You state that: “A person is saved by faith, not by works.”
Most Christians would disagree with your narrow interpretation of the scriptures.
You refer to: “the mystical body of Christ”
Again, most Christians would disagree with your narrow interpretation of the scriptures.
It is apparent that you are the one who “doesn’t get it!”
St. Crispin,
I see you’re doing broken record here. How would you know what most Christians think? Jesus said something about the “narrow way” so I’m more than happy to be “narrow” in my interpretation. Yes indeed it does bug me when I get flippant, dissmissive comments from Mormons who don’t bother to spend any time crafting a thoughtful response.
I’d like to hear if the Christians who post here think I’m off the mark.
Falcon,
You are always “off the mark”.
Your posts constitute the penultimate “broken record” with Joseph Smith is evil blah, blah, blah. The LDS Church is a demonic cult blah, blah, blah. The LDS temple is a center for the occult blah, blah, blah. Mormons are dupes blah, blah, blah.
It is the same blah, blah, blah every single week.
Really, you are a broken record.
It is rather apparent that it is simply beyond your abilities to “craft a thoughtful response” let alone an original thought.
st.crispin,
Have you ever really seriously questioned anything around and about the nazarene? The strangest thing about Mormons is praying in that name to find out if its true. You have to believe already, and you expect it to be true to even udder the prayer.
I crafted my own prayer over 20 years ago which was much more broad and open, for the possibility that the truth was somewhere completely outside of the bible, BOM, or perhaps something I had never heard of. Oddly enough I was initially disappointed because I didn’t get any immediate answer. I believe I have finally found it, and its not the LDS faith, and its not within any abrahamic religion.
It seems that we’re getting into a discussion of “my testimony verses your testimony.” Well, I used to believe that I had a testimony of JS. But, by God’s grace, I now know the truth of JS. You know, there was always something about the death of JS that bothered me. He never seemed to be a man of courage when faced with death. I always compared his death scene to that of Stephen’s. There is absolutely no comparison. Stephen was truly empowered by the Holy Spirit, while JS possessed not an inkling of the Spirit. These are things that God puts on one’s heart to get them thinking about the veracity of the LDS Church. This is how God brings a Mormon from precontemplative state to contemplative. I know there are things that bother every Mormon. My former mother-in-law is a strong member, but struggles with the idea of polygamy in heaven. How does she reconcile her distaste for this doctrine (which is God’s grace in her life; she can respond to it)? She gives the standard Mormon response: “I guess I’ll understand it when I get there.” Then, there’s the whole third verse of “We Thank Thee O God for a Prophet,” which is about JS. If anyone has an LDS hymnal, the blood of JS is spoken of as if it’s his blood that saves us (I think it’s the third verse). Such things naturally cause red flags to pop up, but Mormons are generally afraid to say anything because they will be told that they are entering the road to apostasy. It’s all about fear tactics, which is why Mormonism qualifies as a cult. Folks joining the Mormon Church usually get there through deception, meaning that the totality of the beliefs of Mormonism are held back until after the new convert really believes they have their own testimony of the “truth.” Folks leaving the Mormon Church taste the sweet taste of grace, and are free to obey God as a love response to that unfathomable grace.
Blessings to seekers of the Truth
Enki,
Curious, how does one: “udder the prayer”???
This is a new concept to me.
So the answer to your “uddering a prayer” is that God is “not within any abrahamic religion”?
Are you a member of some bovine cult?
Is your god named “Bessie” and is She happily contented?
Perhaps you should join a 4H club to spread the “good news”.
What is the Mormon definition of “narrow”. There are several, but let’s look at two of my favorites.
Definition #1 of “narrow”: marriage in the temple
“And again, we repeat for emphasis from Matthew: ‘Enter ye in the strait gate.’ That’s an s-t-r-a-i-t gate, not the shortest distance between two points. Strait means hard, difficult, exacting, that kind of gate. And that’s the kind of a gate that marriage is. An eternal marriage is also strait and difficult. ‘Strait is the gate, and NARROW is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it’.
“Now, all Latter-day Saints are not going to be exalted. All people who have been through the holy temple are not going to be exalted. The Lord says, ‘Few there be that find it.’ For there are two elements: (1) the sealing of a marriage in the holy temple, and (2) righteous living through one’s life thereafter to make that sealing permanent. Only through PROPER MARRIAGE – and I repeat that – only through proper marriage can one find that strait way, the NARROW path. No one can ever have life, real life, in any other way under any other program.” (Spencer Kimball, “Achieving a Celestial Marriage”, page 274).
Definition #2: D&C 1:30 (the LDS Church is the only true church on the face of the earth)
Officially, this is what Mormons believe, but they don’t talk about it too much to the public because they want to be considered part of the Christian community. I don’t know how many LDS missionaries and regular church members have told me “All religions have forms of truth”. Really? Is this theosophy? Islam? Hinduism? Buddhism? They have forms of truth? D&C 1:30 is pretty NARROW, but this kind of talking by Mormons doesn’t add up. I guess when LDS missionaries are sitting in Christian (non-LDS) church services in their missionary clothes with ID badges stating to people that their “jesus” and gospel is the same as ours, is that what D&C 1:30 is all about? No, Acts 20:28-30 defines it.
st.crispin,
Wow, that is so funny! Seriously, that has me smiling, I feel so good right now. Yes, I guess alot of people are involved in some bovine cult.
(from wikipedia…)
The Evangelist St. Luke is depicted as an ox in Christian art.
In Judaism, as described in Numbers 19:2, the ashes of a sacrificed unblemished red heifer that has never been yoked can be used for ritual purification of people who came into contact with a corpse.
The ox is one of the 12-year cycle of animals which appear in the Chinese zodiac related to the Chinese calendar. See: Ox (Zodiac).
The constellation Taurus represents a bull.
The akabeko (่ตคในใ?, red cow) is a traditional toy from the Aizu region of Japan that is thought to ward off illness.[44]
The Maasai tribe of East Africa traditionally believe that all cows on earth are the God-given property of the Maasai
Hindu tradition
In Hinduism, the cow is a symbol of wealth, strength, abundance, selfless giving and a full Earthly life.Cows are venerated within the Hindu religion of India. According to Vedic scripture they are to be treated with the same respect ‘as one’s mother’ because of the milk they provide; “The cow is my mother. The bull is my sire.”[45] Th
Eh… Ladder day saints uddering and preying…
Crisp,
First of all, “cool your jets” with the sarcasm and mocking of Enki. We know what Alma 5 says about mocking. This isn’t the Mormon Coffee “spelling bee” here…lighten up. I think Enki is a young girl. Nobody here is working on their doctorate by blogging here.
I’d like to be convert number 265,594 who supposedly leaves Christendom to join the ranks of the Mormon foot soldiers. I will leave my Protestant church, take my family and many members with me and march to Salt Lake City and kiss the ring finger of Thomas Monson and put you to shame in LDS evangelism efforts. Before I enlist I need to know, see, read and understand three things. They are:
1. Show me from the Bible with clear, detailed Scripture what Joseph Smith said was “the first principle of the gospel”: God is an exalted man. I must see that.
2. Show me the word “Gods” (spelled exactly like that from Abraham 4) anywhere in the Bible.
3. Tell me and everyone here that you know that you have been forgiven for all of your sins and that if you died right now you know you’d be in the celestial kingdom with your god who resides near Kolob.
Okay, you can give me two out of three. Answer #3 and give me either #1 or #2 from the Bible. I’m ready to pack my bags this night. I’m ready to be baptized in your ward by you this weekend. Please help me.
BONUS: I’ll ask you what I asked my last Gospel Essentials teacher who had been a Mormon for 80 years: “Jesus Christ is my Savior. I am born again, have forgiveness for my sins and have eternal life RIGHT NOW. What can the LDS Church offer me that I don’t have already have in Jesus?”
His reply: “Nothing.”
You should have seen the looks on the faces of those sitting in the class. That was my last class. Why go back? I have all I need in Jesus Christ NOW from what He said in His Word – the Bible.
Crisp, help me with those questions. It’s not too late.
Paige your story is the one I hope and pray to hear from my wife some day. There have been days when I have wanted to just throw my hands in the air and disobey I Corinthians 7:10-16 even though I KNOW that would be sin in my life. But hearing people such as yourself give me hope. And so I continue,praying daily for my wife and ALL of our family. Grace and Peace in our Lord and Savior Jesus the Christ.
Paige,
Welcome to the real family of the real, living God! You are no longer a child of the devil who is the father to all those who have not accepted the Savior (John 8:44). You are now one of the Father’s children because you have accepted the real Savior as told to us from the Bible (John 1:12). It’s a miracle when anyone comes to faith in Christ. It’s even more so when someone is extracted from the clutches of a non-Christian cult such as Mormonism. We have former temple Mormons who have come to faith in the real Jesus at my church and it’s really amazing hearing their stories. You’re not alone. Pray for your family members. It’s only through the power of God that they are going to have the blinds removed from their eyes (2 Cor 4:4) and be drawn by the Father to faith in Christ (John 6:44). I wish you God’s blessings in your life and in the future.
Ralph,
I’m looking forward one day to seeing your video or reading about your extraction from Mormonism when you find out that all the dots are not connecting when it comes to the historicity issues that deal with doctrinal subjects that we have talked about.
I would like to address Crispin’s account on membership.
“According to LDS-published statistics, the annual number of LDS converts declined from a high of 321,385 in 1996 to 241,239 in 2004. In the 1990s, the church’s growth rate went from 5 percent a year to 3 percent.” (http://www.sltrib.com/ci_2890645)
Interesting point here is, as the information age is upon us LDS conversions is declining. It doesn’t matter if those conversions are from a Christian denomination or not, the point of the issue is trends. The Mormon population is not going in a positive direction considering the birth rate in the U.S.
I was a Lutheran (uneducated one at that) until I was age 30 when I had the “bait and switch” pulled on me by a few LDS missionaries (Please see the two gospels of Mormonism). After 5 years of trying to justify the end by the means, my wife (who was raised LDS) and I were liberated by Jesus Christ. So whatever numbers the church reports this year, minus that number by at least 2.
Okie,
Just remember, you are saved because of your faith, not your works. So there is no reason why you can’t just up and leave your wife, right? And no, I am not making a joke about your marriage situation, I am in a serious period right now where I have to contemplate very strongly about leaving my wife or staying, just to make sure the children are safe. If there were no children I would not have this dilemma. But as for your situation, 1 Cor 7:10-16 has no bearing because you are already saved. Its not a sin if you leave. Or if it is, then Jesus has already paid for it and you will still get to heaven.
In the past I have defended some LDS’rs because I thought they were being treated rough, I still feel that way so please don’t hang me for this post. I just think its funny. This is a tongue and cheek post from another web site.
Follow the profit, follow the profit
General Authority(GA): There is not an “F” in Prophet
Christen(C): Are you to say the official church position is there is no eff’n Prophet?
GA: Thats right, obviously, there is ‘no eff’n prophet’! Never has been and never will be
C: So I guess the LDS church really is a non prophet organization
GA: There is no profit to be found in our books
I hope you laugh
Okie,
I pray for you and your wife. I’m guessing that you’re feeling completely powerless in this situation – maybe its something that you and your wife don’t talk about because you just end up arguing.
I wish I could give you some great pearl of wisdom, but I can’t. I just pray that the Holy Spirit of Christ will lead you both. Love your wife as Christ loved His church and gave himself for her (Eph 5:25). Just don’t forget that Christ loves you and gave himself for you too.
The falcon is feeling pretty good this morning seeing that our LDS friends are actually reading my posts and secondly, that my message is getting through. I have about three or four major themes that I bang away at constantly and that’s because we are told that there are a bunch of “lurkers” that drop by Mormon Coffee. I’m guessing that some are new here (on a daily basis) and others are returnees.
Well what are those themes? Primarily:
1. The foundation of Mormonism is in the occult. As such, Mormonism denies the God of the Bible and follows a spirit that leads people away from salvation presented clearly in God’s Word the Holy Bible. The religious “spiritual” experiences provided by the spirit of Mormonism deceives and suduces Mormons by reinforcing the outright lies that Satan, through Joseph Smith, propagated to the folks. The big lie of course is that the Mormon can become “a god”. This is all reinforced, of course, through a very special feeling that the Mormon gets “confirming” to them that this is true and that they are spiritually connected to the god of this world. We all know who the god of this world is.
It’s interesting to see how exMormons extricate themselves from the Mormon cult. Usually there’s this gnawing feeling that something just isn’t right within Mormonism. Then there is a desire to know the truth coupled with a longing to know who God is and what His will is for their lives. An intense search follows with a genuine openness to knowing the truth no matter where that might lead.
This is a difficult emotional journey and one that takes courage because for many, the cost of leaving Mormonism and following Christ can be high. But having secured their salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, the exMormon is now free to follow God instead of thinking they can become one.
The last twenty-four hours have not been good ones for our Mormon posters who are left scrambling around trying to spin some sort of web and misdirection away from the phenomenal story of Paige, who in her spiritual quest to find God, rejected Mormonism and became born again. Quite interestingly, our Mormon friends haven’t attacked her personally (which is good) and her revelation of the saving grace of God through Jesus Christ.
What we are getting from our Mormon posters are some dry and dull statistics that there are “X” number of people converting to Mormonism every year. This is a kind of “truth supported by numbers” attempt that is pretty laughable. What our Mormon friends fail to reveal is how many people are leaving Mormonism every year. The other thing they fail to address is the downright deceitful manner in which people are sucked into the black hole of Mormonism. In the Sandara Tanner video posted here, Sandra makes the excellent point that the Mormon hisorians she chats with know the truth regarding Mormonism but stay with it because they think the church is doing some good. Sandra’s point: “Yea but the Mormon missionaries aren’t reflecting that in their recruitment pitch.”
But the light of God can, as we see over and over again, penetrate this darkness and bring people to a saving knowledge of the grace of God through Jesus Christ.
Ralph
are you being serious about this? “I am in a serious period right now where I have to contemplate very strongly about leaving my wife or staying…”
May I ask why you are in this position?
I remember watching a video clip of a Mormon missionary training session and the trainer kept emphasizing that when speaking to the prospect, the Mormon misssionary should take the person directly to “that little grove of trees”. Now this of course is speaking to Joseph Smith’s place of “vision” (pick any of the various versions of the grove of trees story you wish).
Contrast that with Christianity which takes people directly to the Cross of Christ. In Mormonism it’s all about Joseph Smith. In Christianity it’s all about Jesus. Right from the beginning, Mormonism eschews the Cross of Christ. Interesting strategy, keeping someone away from the very means by which they can obtain forgiveness for their sins and God’s gift of eternal life through Christ’s sacrifice.
Now who would come up with a plan like that (rejecting the Cross)? Who is served by people rejecting God and His plan of salvation for “a god”?
I’ve never really had anyone argue with me about the fact that they are a sinner. Most people get that. They understand that it is our sin that separates us from a righteous, merciful and just God. The process of owning our sin, repenting and receiving God’s gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ is indeed the “Good News” that Christians have to share. It’s all about Jesus from the beginning to the end. He is the Alpha and Omega, the visible manifestation of God.
What God has to offer sinners through His plan of salvation, is personal (for the individual) and yet applies to all who are willing to receive this Gift of eternal life through faith.
I think I just had a burning in my bossom! I know it makes me feel really good every time I think about how God loved me so much that he was willing to take upon Himself the punishment I should have received for my sins. The Bible says that a just man “falls” seven times a day. Calculate that amount of sins in the lifetime of a “just” man. No amount of effort on our part will overcome the penalty for sin.
Hello Everyone,
This is my first time posting, though I’ve been following this site for over two years now! There were many times when I felt like sharing some things before, but for one reason or another, I just didn’t. That is until now when I read Okie’s situation. It really brought me to tears because I know first hand the sadness we feel for having a mormon spouse.
Okie, I just wanted to give you some words of encouragement for what you’re going through. Don’t give up on your wife! You’re her closest example of the real Jesus that she has. Love her with all your heart, as Jesus did for those who rejected Him, and trust that He will see you both thru it all.
When my husband and I married, he had been a “jack mormon” for over 15 yrs, and I had been out of my christian church for about 5 yrs. But after our first child was born, I went back to church and never left. I have raised our three children faithfully as God-fearing Christians, and ten yrs into our marriage, my husband decided that he wanted to have that same relationship wiht the Lord. Except that instead of joining our faith, he began investigating his childhood church, and decided to join the mormon curch again, leaving the children and I simply stunned and heartbroken!!! I had been praying for him for over ten years, and when that happened, I almost stopped believing in God altogether! The last three years have been a very long, discouraging road for our family, as my husband continues strong in the lds church. But over and over, God keeps convicting me that this is not over yet; it’s just simply a detour along the way.
PLease keep strong! God is greater than anyone and anything! I’ll be praying for you.
It’s nice to meet you Grace. (What a terrific name). I don’t think God needs extra prayers or extra convincing, but I like to know there are people out there praying for me too. I DO believe that God is working on your husband, and that his (your husband’s) little trip to outerspace may be the only thing that rattles him enough to leave all silliness behind once and for all. Thanks for sharing your hope (confident expectation of good). I’ll be praying for you all.
God bless
Falcon,
The thing is that the cross existed before christianity. It represents life, the four directions, the seasons and the sun. The image of a suffering jew on the cross was crafted to achieve a number of objectives. One thing was to create fear and a negative association with the cross.
Falcon you are correct that Mormons eschew the cross. I certainly did when I was involved with the LDS faith. However, LDS people unquestionably believe that blood was necessary to be spilled to pay the price of sin. Isn’t that something which is shared with non-LDS christians? In away this is totally in alignment with christians. Either to ignore the cross or have false information about it.
I now know that the cross was STOLDEN by christians which placed a different meaning on it. With my new understandings I now have good feelings about the cross. I live in a community which is largely fundementalist christian. Its not uncommon for people to wear jewlery or have the cross in their car, in their homes etc… I don’t feel afraid of it anymore, but feel kind of annoyed and sad about the ignorance many people have about the cross.
Ralph: “And no, I am not making a joke about your marriage situation, I am in a serious period right now where I have to contemplate very strongly about leaving my wife or staying, just to make sure the children are safe. If there were no children I would not have this dilemma.” Wow, Ralph. I am saddened that you are in this situation, whatever it is in detail. I am sure all of us will be carrying you in our prayers. I hope you are in a position to get some help and input regarding all the particulars. Go with Grace…
This thread has sure brought out a lot. And some new folk. Welcome! Paige’s openness has been a blessing to many. I have felt very close to many of you here as you have responded to her. Sometimes we get kind of grumpy or blunt on MC, but this feels really close and caring. Okie and Grace – there are no easy words or answers for your situations with your spouses. My heart goes out to you. Our Christian journey is not guaranteed to be successful, or even pretty at times. But through it all, my prayer is that His Grace is enough for us.
Have a blessed grace-filled day!
Enko said
Can you tell me exactly what you believe? I can tell your not a Christian and you admited you do not believe the BoM.
Enki said
Dude, what are you smoking? I bet your eyes are brown aren’t they. All of what you said about the Cross is not in the Bible, and the Cross existed before the foundation of the Earth. The Bible tells us The LAMB, “Jesus” Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Jesus was Slain before the foundation of the earth. Jesus was planning before the foundation to go to the cross. So the Cross was around before the earth. Rick b
Okie!
There is hope for you. My wife was born and raised LDS (3 or 4 generations in I think?) – her father is a bishop so this is a very Mormon family. Anyways, every time I would try and talk to her about what I had learned about the history of the LDS church and teachings of their own prophets, she would get angry and the conversation typically ended in tears from the both of us.
Anyways, it was pretty much this blog that was key in her leaving the LDS church.. She knew that I visited it often (which she wasn’t happy about) and then one day she confronted her fears and decided to learn a little. She didn’t find that anyone was “Mormon Bashing” with no validity to their statements, what she found was well referenced material that she had never even heard about. She never even knew that Joseph Smith had more than one wife, masonic rituals in temples, curse of cain, adam-god doctrine, book of abraham debacle, etc..
Now, I didn’t even know she had read this blog and I had all but given up trying to talk to her about it because I saw how badly it hurt her when her religion was challenged. One day on a car ride she said out the blue “I don’t think I believe in the LDS church anymore.” I was blown away, and obviously later on when she stopped going to church and her parents learned of her disbelief, they were blown away the same.
Long Story Short – We now attend a wonderful Christian church and she is actually a volunteer in the nursery. She feels a tremendous burden lifted from her now that she knows that her salvation is secure by the blood of Jesus Christ and that HE is the mediator between her and God. Not some broken human organization pretending to have power that for some reason thinks we need to go to the International House of Handshakes for exaltation.
My suggestion is pray my friend. I unfortunately don’t think I did enough of it but God still moved mountains and opened my wife’s eyes to the truth. Your God is stronger and more powerful than Mormonism.
Just watched the video.
Truly earth-shattering. A person who “was never really into the church” ends up involved in another faith after watching propaganda videos from anti-mormon “ministries.” Wow. Astonishing.
Please. Had she ever even read the BOM in its entirety? Ever done any research of her own or read any pro-BOM/LDS scholarship? Likely no to both questions.
Falcon- I have read your posts for a while now. It seems you will say just about anything to denigrate the LDS faith. This includes repeating obvious lies over and over. You never really seem to digest or think about meaningful arguments. Saying that LDS do not believe that salvation is through Christ may make you feel neat, but it is a pure lie. And I think you know that.
Kevin- your take on the number of people leaving the church is an opinion. The availability of information on the internet and the number of those leaving the church are not the only two variables to consider, correct me if I’m wrong. You might take a look at other religions and see how they are doing. Look at the influence of evil in the world and the loss of interest in God. Do you think your argument may be a little short-sighted?
fof
“that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her.” Thanks one and all for your kind comments.This is just a “Jericho” that God has placed in my life. How I respond to it HAS to be in a way that gives GOD all the glory and honor.
As a side note GREAT pictures from Manti.
Olsen, Jim
Over the many months that I have been on this blog I have asked our Mormon friends to specifically tell me what I am saying regarding the LDS religion; its history and beliefs is not true. I get total silence. I’ll tell you why; it’s easy to say “it’s all lies” and then run away without checking out what is said or give an explanation as to what was stated is not true. Please list my lies and I’ll be more than happy to answer your charges point-by-point.
My friend Andy Watson/Berean has forgotten more about Mormonism than you’ll ever know and he’s never told me that what I’ve written is wrong. In fact it’s not unusual for me to run something by Andy before I write it or for me to look something up before I make a comment. You, my friend, are so deep into the Morg that you couldn’t see the truth if it bit you.
First of all, the Jesus of Mormonism is not the Jesus of Christianity or the Bible. The Jesus of Mormonism is a created being, the offspring of a father god and his goddess wife. In Mormon lore, Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers. This is blasphemy of the highest order. The Mormon jesus is not a qualified Savior.
Secondly, the salvation of the Mormon is dependent on “after all we can do” which means that salvation through Jesus is not necessary if the Mormon can “do” enough; that is be righteous enough. That’s why a Mormon has absolutely no assurance of their final destination upon death. Rank, in the Mormon system, is dependent on how much the Mormon can do. This is not Christianity.
Paige escaped this religious system that promotes a false god, jesus, and holy spirit and found salvation through a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. She’s been born again through faith on the basis of God’s love and mercy. Mormons don’t know Jesus. Mormons are stuck in a system that they suppose will lead them to become gods, their wives goddesses, and their own planetary system to rule.
OK friend, where am I wrong?
This, “we believe in salvation through Jesus Christ” is just one of the many word games Mormons play. The reason Mormons play this game, of course, is to make Mormonism appear mainstream. One of the first things someone learns in dealing with cults is that the terms that are used must be clearly defined. Mormonism uses a web of subtrefuge to confuse and misdirect people. This is why so many get angry when they dig a little deeper and discover that they’ve been lied to; often through omission of critical information.
Mormons have redefined several key terms such as; atonement, gift, eternal life, and salvation. The LDS definition of these terms conceals the LDS views of the nature of Jesus, his preexistance, his relationship to us, His atoning work, and his ultimate mission. The Jesus of Mormonism is qualitatively a different Jesus from Christianity. Past LDS president, prophet, and seer Gordon Hinckley said, “The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.” (LDS Church News, June 20, 1998, p.7) Hinckley also said, “There is some substance” to what critics say when they point out that Mormons “do not believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity.” (Ensign, May 1996, p.94)
Hidden within the pages of LDS publications comes the truth of the matter. Would it be that Mormons were so forthright when it comes to dealing with the general public.
Mormons reject the Cross of Christ both in a symbolic and literal fashion. We’ve discussed on this blog the fact that Mormons reject the Cross of Christ as a symbol but embrace occult symbols which proudly adorn many of their temples. In the Bible, the apostle Paul states that he is not ashamed of the Cross of Christ but apparently, by their actions, Mormons are ashamed of it.
Mormons minimize Christ’s death on the Cross by opting for a place of atonement in the Garden of Gethsemane. Mormonism rejects the fact that Jesus’ very point of death itself was an act of atonement. Mormonism teaches Jesus’ death accomplished the possiblility of those, through self-effort, to prove themselves worthy of the reward to become a god, also called eternal life in Mormonism.
This is not Biblical Christianity and any attempts to make it sound as such is Mormonisms’ attempt to use blue smoke and mirrors to hide their actual beliefs. Christians recognize one kind of salvation-eternity in God’s immediate presence. Accepting Christ as Savior results in eternal life (Romans 10:9) in God’s presence; not exaltation to godhood. Accepting Jesus as Savior provides entrance into heaven (Romans 3:24). God offers a twofold gift (Romans 6:23) to people who will receive this gift of salvation by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-10).
God’s promises are literal, unconditional and eternal. Mormonism for all it’s attempts to confuse and obfuscate the truth, knows nothing of God’s gift of eternal life and does indeed reject the Cross.
Falcon,
Amen to all that!
Jeffrey,
The IHOP reference cracked me up!
Okie,
Having been there myself in two different ways, I can tell you that it’s when you believe God (i.e. by trusting Him and doing as He has written in His word – in this case staying with the unbeliever)that real miracles are accomplished. That’s a bad way to put it. God can and will do miracles. But when you believe Him, you get to be part of them in a way that lifts you and strengthens you, and shows you His power and goodness in a very personal way. I’m excited that you’re in this position, because when you see the victory, it will be all that much more sweet!
Jim, Why do you post here? You seem to only attack and cause trouble.
Let me fill you in on a few things ok. Go back and read what LDS member Shem said to me, I accused him of not answering Questions, He said he is not afraid to answer any question, I pointed out the two he missed, He has not posted since.
Tell me Jim, Why do the LDS avoid Questions that seem so simple. Them after avoiding Questions You tell me it is Us that are bashing.
Now here is something that is taking place today and started on Monday.
On Monday, Two MM’s stopped by my house, We talked for about 30 minutes, In our talk I flat out asked them, Why is it I have read all 4 stranded works, I read and own the Original D and C with the Lectures on faith and many other LDS books.
Yet despite reading all of these books I keep Being told by LDS to pray about the BoM. I told the MM’s who came Over The Bible says SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES to know if these things are true (Acts 17:11) Then in 4 places in the BoM it says Search the Scriptures.
Then I told the MM’s the Bible NEVER says, Pray to know if these things are true, They said, Yes the Bible does say that. They said, James says Pray for Wisdom. I told them praying for Wisdom is Different that praying to know if Something is true or not.
Wisdom tells me not to jump off a 100 story building Since gravity will pull me to my death, But Wisdom does not tell me that if I am out in the woods and I am starving what Mushrooms are not Poisonous. I have never seen the Poisonous mushrooms or Plants So in that case Wisdom cannot help.
Then I told the MM’s that if they keep reading into the Book of James, It speaks of Earthly and sensual, devilish wisdom.
So anyway, The MM’s PROMISED Me that today is the day that if I pray God will revel Himself to me and I will know the BoM is true. Now I pointed out to the MM’s that Every time I take this challenge and pray God tells me Jer 17:11 Acts 17:11 And JS is a false Prophet.
I told the MM’s why is it alw
Cont,
I was telling the MM’s, Why is it always put back onto me? Why is it I did not pray in a sincere way, or why is it I might have sin in my heart or some other motive? I told them they cannot Judge my heart.
So anyway Jim, God did speak to me on this matter. Before the LDS left they issued me the Prayer Challenge and asked if I wanted them to study up on anything to talk about. I said Study up on the Nature of God. Well God spoke to me and Here is What God wants ME to tell the MM’s.
He wants me to Issue the MM’s coming back a challenge to them. God wants me to tell the MM’s that instead of praying for truth, to Search the Scriptures, I have all these LDS books with Teaching from Prophets and Presidents, He wants me to Show these guys Contradictions and Changes made in their History.
I will be honest with these Guys and tell them that if they flat out tell me NO they do not want to see and discuss these issues then that means they are liars and refuse to see both Sides.
I suspect one of three things will happen and I will lay it out to them.
1. One of the two will want to take the challenge and look at these issues, but the other will not and talk him out of it.
2. They both will want to look into these things, But wont have time Today and will leave, then tell other MM’s about what happened and these other LDS will talk them out of it.
3. They both will want to look into these things, but will have to leave, then they will share with the Higher Authority’s, like the Stake President or someone, then that person will all of a sudden Declare to them, God just spoke to him and told him that these MM’s need to move to other area’s.
I will tell these Guy’s If any of this happens that God is speaking to them and I pray conviction will be STRONG upon their hearts. So the Mormons are going to be Issued a Challenge from God today, If they come back to my House. Rick b
One my First Post I put Jer 17:11, I meant Jer 17:9.
Rick b
Mormonism holds to two different types of salvation. The first type of salvation is a kind of general salvation, universal in nature that all of mankind gets regardless of their life style or faith in Christ or lack of it. The second type of salvation has to do with becoming exalted as a god. This second type of “salvation” is dependent on “works” and has nothing to do with Christ or his death on the Cross.
Hell does not exist in Mormonism unless you’re an apostate Mormon and then you go to “outer darkness”. This latter point is a very good example of mind-control as practiced by cults of various types.
Now the fact that none of this is in the Bible is of very little concern for the Mormon. Because we see that this was all “revealed” to the man with the magic rock, the occultist practioner of magic arts, Joseph Smith. Isn’t it quite telling that Joseph Smith rejected the God of the Bible and the salvation he offers through His Son Jesus Christ, in favor of another gospel? Now what being out there in the spirit world would have as the foundation of his faith, the rejection of the God of the Bible, His Son, the Holy Spirit and (God’s) plan of salvation?
Very curious wouldn’t you agree. We have a guy, Joseph Smith, who had an “angel of light”, lead him to all of this, taking folks away from God’s redemtive plan substituting for it a plan that allows men to become gods themselves. Very appealing and seducing isn’t it?
Satan does indeed appear as an angel of light deceiving those who are willing to reject God and His Christ for another gospel that will result in their ultimate spiritual distruction.
Thinking they are wise, these people are fools.
Olsen,
Alas, 90% of everything on MC is opinion, inescapably; if it where all fact (even 50%), we would have nothing to talk about. ๐
O.K., take my association between mass media and membership out of my comments, may be the decline is a coincidence. A decline none the less, over eight years is not an aberration. If you would have looked at the link I posted you would have seen the comparison with other religions that are growing. I did not make the comparison because, well frankly, I felt it would have been kicking dirt in the eye. My argument is about the trend of declining conversions, maybe eight years is short sighted, for most people that is at least 1/10 their life.
(IMO) MM’s are trained sales people, and in any organization if they sustained a 2% drop in businesses over 8 years, well that would cause concern to change tactics. LDS HQ is no different, the message may be the same, but the tactics have defiantly changed.
olsen,
You speak as if the BOM is true. Well, I have read it many times–even in Swedish, and believed it was true. This is my opinion about the BOM: it has some good stuff in it. It also teaches principles that contradict what JS later writes. The BOM does not speak to a “spirit prison” where spirits will have the opportunity to hear the Mormon gospel. In fact, it specifically speaks to “today” being the day of our salvation, when men prepare to meet God. But, ultimately, as far as fictional writings go, I will take “Les Miserables” by Victor Hugo over it everytime. You see, the difference between a Mormon testimony and a Christian testimony is that the Christian testimony is tested against the Bible, whereas the Mormon testimony is totally existential in nature and, if it so happens to contradict biblical teaching, then it is the Bible that is wrong. There really is no comparison between the two testimonies. Like I said before, I thought the BOM was true. But, for the GRACE of God, I now know that it is merely the work of a man who, when tested against the Bible, is found to be a false prophet. One last thing, Olsen, I find it humorous that you attack Falcon. He is one of the great minds on this site. So, good luck as he responds to you. He is well-versed and able to communicate his thoughts in a way that makes perfect sense. You could learn from him. I suggest you humble yourself and accept the truth and grace God is offering you.
Peace and Grace!
Kevin,
Your use of statistics is rather selective. If you were to consider the increase in convert baptisms in 2004 (241,239) to that in 2008 (265,593) this represents a 10% increase over a 4 year period. However, that is an anomaly.
For a more useful indication of the growth of the LDS consider the long term growth of the Church over the past 60 years from about 1.3 million to approximately 13.5 million. That represents a ten fold increase. Thus for the sake of the mathematical argument, if this same growth rate is maintained over the next 60 years the membership of the LDS Church will be 135 million. Of course such numbers do not reflect actual religious activity rates of individual members.
Andy/Berean,
I will address your questions tomorrow. In the meantime you can start packing your bags and I will fill up the baptismal fount for you. ๐
Ralph,
I don’t quite know how to address the personal information you shared on this blog yesterday. I’d just like you to know that I feel personally sad regarding your situation. I don’t know the particulars and I guess that’s not all that important in terms of feeling empathy for you. I don’t think it’s profane for me to say that this sort of thing really sucks. That’s American lingo for “a really bad deal”.
It’s strange but a couple of weeks ago I was out pounding the pavement with my road bike on the back country roads of west central Wisconsin where I live. A woman, I didn’t know, was walking alone towards me and I greeted here and then stopped to talk warning her about the black bears; only half in jest.
She lives near where I do (I found out as we talked) and she’s going through a really tough time. Her and her husband are both Christians, but he’s walked out on her leaving her and the three kids. He’s not happy (was the reason he gave for leaving). (I’m not suggesting that this is your situation.)
It wasn’t difficult to see that the lady was in real emotional pain.I told her I would pray for her and I have. I really had this over-whelming feeling that I should ask her if I could pray for her right there on the spot. I resisted this urge for a variety of reasons not the least of which was the appropriatness of doing such a thing.
However as a follower of Jesus Christ, I feel we have to minister to people where ever we find them. This means the location/place, as well as spiritually and emotionally. I know we don’t agree on much regarding religion however I sense that God is telling me to tell you to be patient. I have no clue what that means or even if it’s from the Lord, but I thought I’d pass it on to you.
I’ll continue in prayer for you that God will witness His will to you for your life.