MRM associate Randy Sweet and I decided to head to Provo—home of the LDS Church-owned BYU Cougar football team—to hand out our Brigham Young million dollar bill tracts before the game on Saturday, October 23. Wouldn’t you know it! For two of the three hours that we handed out the tracts, it poured cats and dogs! Randy and I decided to tough it out anyway and had the ability to distribute hundreds of tracts to many of the 50,000+ spectators.
A security guard forced us to move from the public sidewalk we were standing on near a main gate, saying that while it was a public sidewalk, the church had a permit to control the street and sidewalk on Cougar game days. Thus, we went down the street to a corner to hand out our tracts. Across the street was a Republican “Mike Lee for U.S. Senate” campaign bus along with about fifty hearty supporters, all of them waving signs and generating honks from the passing cars. Several ladies holding campaign signs were standing at corner, so we ended up getting into a quick conversation. Telling one lady with a stroller that I was new to the state and didn’t know very much about Utah politics, I could see her wheels spinning as she obviously viewed me as a potential voter, just ripe for the picking.
“Would you like to go over there and meet Mr. Lee?” she asked after I asked several questions about the senate candidate’s positions on the issues. I agreed, and so in a rain that became steadier, she introduced me to the 39-year-old lawyer—a man once serving as a clerk for Supreme Justice Samuel Alito—who owned a double digit lead heading into the Nov. 2 election. I ended up having an uninterrupted fifteen minutes with this very faithful Mormon and the son of former BYU president Rex Lee. Why, I even shook the hand of one of his beautiful daughters!
The candidate was very cordial and appeared happy to talk—anything to break the monotony of waving at passing cars, I’m sure. I began by asking him about abortion (he’s Pro-Life except in cases of rape/incest, life of mother, and detrimental health of the infant). We dialogued on that topic for a few minutes before I asked him the question I really wanted answered: “Do you believe in free speech?”
It seems like such an easy one. It was a softball, placed gently on a tee for him to hit out of the ballpark. After all, show me a politician who would answer “no” and I’ll show you a loser in the next election! As expected, he replied, “Absolutely, I’m a constitutional lawyer, and I will fight for this right to the very end.” I brought up the recent debacle involving liberal political commentator Juan Williams and how he had publicly said some things on the air about Muslims that the NPR leadership didn’t like, resulting in his firing. (Interesting, FOX News hired Williams immediately after this, giving him a $2 million contract!) Mr. Lee had not been following the news (“I’ve been busy getting ready for the election,” he said), so I spent several minutes providing him details.
“Yes, they (NPR) shouldn’t have fired him,” he concluded. With this, I proceeded to explain the situation that is currently taking place in Manti, Utah. To catch everyone up, the Mormon Church is attempting to purchase a public street that runs in front of the temple by offering the city approximately $110,000. The church has not shown any real dire need to own this street, though everyone knows that such a purchase will result in having anyone who disagrees with the church banned from the street. For two weeks in June every year, hundreds of Christians come to Manti to share their faith with the tens of thousands of pageant-goers at the Mormon Miracle Pageant. Most of the dialogues take place on this very street. Once the church gets the title deed, they can tell anyone—protestors, Christians, communists, Utah Ute fans—to “please remove yourself from our street.”
At first, Mr. Lee made it sound like he really didn’t know or even understand the situation. Then, after I explained some more, he became very hard-nosed. “As long as it’s done legally, anybody should be allowed to purchase anything he wants,” he explained. My response: “But if quenching free speech is the main reason an organization wants to purchase a public street, would you still be in favor?” “Absolutely,” he responded.
If Christians wanted a political ally in this fight, Mr. Lee is not the man. Immediately I thought of the next question. “What would you say if the LDS Church decided to buy the four blocks immediately around its Salt Lake City temple and the conference center, with the main purpose to disallow free speech, especially during the two general conferences that take place each year?” After all, since many who are in opposition to Mormonism use these public sidewalks, perhaps a strategy would be to buy the streets and sidewalks (just as the church purchased an adjacent street in 2000 to create Main Street Plaza) in order to move the “protestors” and other undesirables away from the LDS buildings. His answer was predictable: “As long as it was legally done, I see no problem with that.”
I do, Mr. Lee. Free speech is not just for those who have lots of disposable assets and can purchase public streets in order to stifle opposing viewpoints. If the LDS Church cannot show a real need to purchase a public street, allowing such a purchase is morally and ethically wrong. Putting a clamp on free speech by using such a maneuver is something that I might expect to happen in a Communist country, not America. Legality is not the issue.
Mr. Lee, with a double-digit lead according to the polls, you will win. As a freshman senator, I pray you will remember that you have been elected to serve the people of Utah as our representative to uphold the Constitution, including the First Amendment. Don’t allow your LDS rose-colored glasses to taint your decisions.
As we parted ways on Saturday, you promised that you would allow me to communicate with you through email and you would respond. You repeated my full name and said you wouldn’t forget our conversation. Please know that I will hold you to your promise.
It's really not a question as to whether the LDS church can "legally" buy the street and therefore control what occurs on that street. It is, I'm afraid, a real PR plunder on their part. What's that new saying that has become so popular in the press in the aftermath of Michelle Obama's trip to Spain: "The optics are bad." This just really looks bad and the LDS church (Salt Lake City denomination) always proves to be quite ham-handed when it comes to PR……and remember, these are the people who have quite a PR machine. See, here's the deal, it's all about control and the LDS church is all about control. They have attempted to control the message about Joseph Smith but now with the internet, that's pretty tough. They try to control their individual members with fear, guilt and when they can, through family and economic means. The LDS church rivals any totalitarian civil government with it's emphasis on limiting free speech. The LDS wants to control this "nuisance". This fellow running for office knows what side his bread is buttered on. He is, first and foremost a servant of the LDS church. I was hoping we left all of that behind when John Kennedy ran for president.
Freedom of speech can, at times, be an ugly, nasty and over all disturbing menace. A local college had three students die in a house fire a couple of years back. The Hillsboro Baptist church group from Kansas came to the campus and held-up signs with some sort of message about homosexuality and how everyone was going to burn in hell and trying, some how, to connect this tragedy to same gender sexual activity. So they're carrying their signs outside of the student center and a pretty significant crowd of students confronted them with a counter march and it was all pretty interesting street theater.
This group of "Baptists" also shows up at funerals of dead soldiers and does their thing in front of the grieving families. I think this group is really despicable and totally nuts. The case was just heard before the U.S. Supreme Court of a parent of a soldier who brought suit against these protesters. My guess is that the Hillsboro Baptists will win their case.
I guess the Mormons in Manti don't like the messiness of a bunch of people spoiling their neat, clean and orderly event. I think we should work out a trade with the Mormons. Christians will stop the witnessing in Manti and the Mormons stop sending missionaries knocking on doors and approaching people in public places to talk to them about the Mormon restored gospel.
Yes! Free speech! Wait, unless you want to disagree about my one and only true religion! Yes! Look at the evidence! Unless you mean the evidence (or lack thereof) surrounding Mormonism's books of scripture or Mormonism's prophets! Yes! Read and consider the context! Unless you mean the Bible, because it contradicts my faith, and therefore truth in it is meant to be yanked from context! Yes,I want to know what really happened in history! except if it casts any kind of negative light on my religion started, in which case, I just want the church-approved version of what happened
The church is taking care of everything, they'll stand between us and whatever opposes us, including God, and they will do whatever it takes to keep that positin. Let the church be our hero, and we'll be safe tucked under its powerful wings.
🙁
Eric, thanks for your faithfulness to Jesus and his good news
So much for free-agency, right?
Do you guys remember once, there was a major missionary effort done in SLC, i don´t remember the denomination, and the church leaders counseled the people to be nice to their missionaries and to allow them to speak, because they had nothing to be afraid of since they had the truth? I remember hearing about that a few times…
whatever happened to that, those moves by the LDS church show "beyond a shadow of doubt" they are not that confident on that "truth" anymore…
What seems kind of weird to me is the need and desire to change the belief of the LDS people. I don't know if doing it near the temple grounds is good. It almost seems like some sort of badgering. If someone LDS says they aren't interested in dialog, do you respect that? Its some confrontation I am not sure I would have any interest in. What is the motivation and pay off for anyone spending the time to do this?
Enki, i will turn your question back at you(my changes between " "):
What seems kind of weird to me is the need and desire to change the belief of the "Christian" people. I don't know if doing it "in peoples houses" is good. It almost seems like some sort of badgering. If someone "Christian" says they aren't interested in dialog, do you respect that? Its some confrontation I am not sure I would have any interest in. What is the motivation and pay off for anyone spending the time to do this?
Huh, what is the pay off of sending missionaries to bother people in their homes everyday?
Hypothetically, what if the Roman Catholic Church purchased all public streets and sidewalks all over our nation (I know it can't and won't happen but indulge me).
What if they then turned around and said there are to be no LDS missionaries riding around on their bikes for proselyting/religious purposes. — I imagine the LDS church would be pretty upset, right? It's the same thing just on a much much smaller scale.
F Melo,__The difference is that the LDS missionaries aren't specific in who they want to share the message with. It could be a buddhist, Hindu, Atheist, Pagan, or someone from another sect of the christian faith. In fact it could be sharing a message with someone of an off shoot of the restoration movement. So, its not trying to 'unchristianize', that is a bit of a projection on your part.____These people however, are very specific in wanting to unLDS, going to the source. I don't imagine that lds missionaries would focus attention at some fundementalist christian hub, like the headquarters of the 700 club, or something like that. ____I imagine that LDS missionaries are very respectful if someone honestly doesn't want to hear the message. In fact I am sure they would turn down any debate, but would take honest inquiries. The question of motivation and pay off for LDS missionaries is a good question. I would open up that question to anyone who is active LDS, and let them take that question. They don't bother people in their homes unless its requested and by invitation, hardly bothering. You don't have to let any LDS missionary into your home, that is your right and power.
Enki,
MM's Might not come out and say us Christians are wrong in what we believe, but you still do believe that. Why do you send MM's to Christians and share the LDS gospel with us if we believe the same thing? Why does the BoM teach their are only two Churchs, The true one and the one of the Devil, if that is not true? If it is, then since I dont believe what you believe I must be of the Church of the devil. So you basically come to my house and tell me I am wrong, whats the difference between MM's doing that and us going to you?
I do doubt that any Mormons would stand out in front of a Billy Graham crusade and try to share the Mormon restored gospel. The MM don't want that kind of exposure. The last thing Mormons want is someone digging around to find out what Mormonism is about. Do Mormons have large crusades like Christians do? What would people do at the invitation? Come forward and receive Joseph Smith as a true prophet or Thomas Monson as a true living prophet? Would those in attendance listen to a Mormon message about the truthfulness of the revelation of the BoM and then go forward to testify that they got a good feeling just thinking about it?
The people that go to these Mormon events like in Manti, go there to witness to the Lord Jesus Christ and the power He has to save. Mormons are lost. We need to go to them bringing the Good News of Jesus Christ. It is our duty to sow seeds. That's our responsibility, to sow seeds.
I am fairly certain that it is possible for a person to be FOR free speech and also FOR the freedom to legally purchase property. The only way the two could be in conflict with eachother is if somebody purchased ALL property and outlawed certian speech EVERYWHERE. I don't see that here. Purchasing this property in NO WAY restricts free speech.
"The difference is that the LDS missionaries aren't specific in who they want to share the message with"
They don´t go to specific groups for convenience reasons(even though they do go to Christian churches and some even attend services in those churches – there´s a video i can´t find now where Mark Driscoll complains about mormon missionaries standing at the entrance of Mars hill church pretending to be from that church handing out pamphlets) – but that´s not the point. The point is, why do your missionaries go around trying to change other people´s beliefs?
"So, its not trying to 'unchristianize', that is a bit of a projection on your part"
No, it isn´t because for me that is exact what your missionaries are doing – teaching people about a false Christ who is the spirit-brother of Satan, who is one of the millions of spirit-children who will one day become gods as their father-god.
"These people however, are very specific in wanting to unLDS, going to the source."
So, what about this – if we are all christians, why do i have to buy your brand of Christianity? What are you converting people from? Like Rick said, if we believe the same about Christ why go around saying my religion is corrupt and apostate?
"I imagine that LDS missionaries are very respectful if someone honestly doesn't want to hear the message."
O my goodness, man, i served as a missionary for the mormon church, and they are not all like that at all. They have the good PR saying they respect all religions, but the truth is, many missionaries will mock every single religion they come across, among themselves.
"They don't bother people in their homes unless its requested and by invitation"
They don´t go knocking on people´s door during the day? Don´t they walk around talking to people as they leave their homes?
Here´s an example of how your missionaries respect everyone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-fsX7CYoN8
I´m not saying that all mormon missionaries do that. I didn´t and i actually enjoyed learning about buddhism with a lady that helped us with community service. I only had problems with the born-again christians that would tell me they didn´t have to do anything because they were already saved, but i wouldn´t mock them, i would just comment about how absurd i thought that whole thing was. Now i understand what is Antinomianism, and how some people take grace as a license to sin.
another one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heDz8IN9nw8&fe…
one more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWwygBaAnw8&fe…
one of missionaries bothering a guy in his house: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZmxa5JmnY4&fe…
See, in your eyes your church can do no wrong, but just like exposed in the article, your church is the standard for right or wrong – whatever the church does, because it is the only "true" church it must be right and everyone else that disagrees with it must be wrong, whatever the issue is.
Eric did a great job having the courage to ask the tough questions, and he shows that the mormon church comes first in the lives of the faithful members no matter what they say or try to portray to the outside world.
This is what the mormon church wishes to accomplish by buying that street:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmJn4MItMGo&fe…
They don´t mind resorting to physical assault, even if the people aren´t doing anything inappropriate.
I´ve said it before, if the mormon church had the same power the Catholic Church had in the middle ages, they would be much, much worse than the Catholic Church ever wished to be.
Well now, that was a really interesting video. That Mormon dude was wearing underwear that was way too tight. It was a very respectful conversation but as the Mormon elders began going under the water for the third time, the other guy stepped in and stopped the interview. What's that line from "A Few Good Men"? "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth."
I was going to call the guy a brown shirted Nazi, but that phrase is worn out and too inflammatory. How about a "street thug" or part of the "Mormon Mafia" or maybe just "jerk".
What is weird to you is the need and desire to change the belief of the LDS people. Does the word missionary mean anything to you? Missionaries, hundreds of thousands of them see the need and desire to change the belief of the average authentic biblical Christian. I have had missionaries on my 'private' property every year but I do not have signs on my yard, 'Keep Out' because we are a civilized society and I respect their good intentions to 'save' me. Its called a civilized society. LDS can send people to trample on any private ground but if a Christian wants to spread their 'Good News', then the problem begins.
This is the most racist performance I have ever seen. Assuming he is a 'Christian', is this loving your neighbor? This is hate.
LTC,
Well first off I am no longer LDS, but I do remember someone coming to a dance at an LDS chapel. He placed bible tracts in everyones coat pocket, and then started asking people if they wanted to debate doctrine. I thought it was just creepy and inappropriate. Most people totally ignored him like he didn't exist. Then I think someone pulled him aside and talked with him. After that he just left. I don't know what he said.
This did not create a good impression. If I was actively LDS I am sure someone on temple grounds would not impress me in the right way. MC website is a much better format, let them come to you. I talked to some fundementalist christians in college, that was better in the dorm room.
falcon, I agree that Church leaders don't really want rank and file members to find out about
some things relative to their history and doctrine , but I wonder if their effort to curtail non-Mormon
dialogue at Manti is'nt in part due to groups ( or individuals) like those knotheads from that
Baptist church in Kansas that you mentioned ?
ww
falcon, I think what you have stated sums up my feelings as well.
ww
I think you´re missing the point of the article.
For more clarification watch the video i already posted – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmJn4MItMGo&fe…
I don´t think anybody here would have a problem with the mormon church buying that street if they did allow people of other faiths to be able to talk to mormons in a civilized manner, but as you can see in the video above, that´s just a move from the LDS church to restrict free speech, to not allow Christians to share the TRUE gospel with mormons.
"This did not create a good impression."
What impression do you think your missionaries create by going to people´s private properties everyday without solicitation? You probably didn´t watch the videos i posted.
"Well first off I am no longer LDS, but I do remember someone coming to a dance at an LDS chapel. He placed bible tracts in everyones coat pocket, and then started asking people if they wanted to debate doctrine."
The hypocrisy here is unbelievable. Your missionaries go around saying the church is open to the public. When the public come in in what appeared like a civilized manner, you say "well, he wasn´t supposed to be there" – so then put a BIG SIGN saying NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.. gee you can´t make up your mind, can you? I don´t care if you´re no longer LDS, just pay attention to what you´re saying… like lds missionaries don´t do the same.
"If I was actively LDS I am sure someone on temple grounds would not impress me in the right way."
So then tell the missionaries to GET OFF people´s property without solicitation – that doesn´t create a good impression either.
"MC website is a much better format, let them come to you. I talked to some fundementalist christians in college, that was better in the dorm room."
Tell the mormon church that, see if they like the idea(they will if you also tell them to set up an online tithing payment system as well).
Wyomingwilly,
that could be the case, but the problem is, they will use it to curtail any dialogue whatsoever. Now, if they buy the street and they actually allow civilized Christians to stand there sharing the Gospel, then i will apologize for the things i said here. Only time will tell.
That video that fmelo posted was really revealing. The Mormons skate pretty well at the beginning of the discussion, but as the discussion goes along it's apparent that the ice becomes very thin beneath them and the expressions on their faces change as they hear the (thin ice) of Mormonism begin to crack. As long as these folks are talking to each other they have all sorts of confidence. However when they get the second and third questions and are led to a point where what they are saying just doesn't make sense, they have to fall back on their "testimony". These lads didn't get to that point because the older "gentlemen" jumped in and rescued them.
Mormonism just doesn't stand up to close scrutiny. That's why we get the Manti Mormons trying to control the environment by restricting access. Mormons do pretty well in their own controlled environment. I have a DVD here titled "The Bible Vs. Joseph Smith". It's a wonder to behold as the Christian questioner dismantles a confident Mormon. It makes you wonder if these Mormons ever ask themselves a challenging question. But it's all about the testimony. Once a person has their testimony, all questions have been answered…….so they think!
Life is witnessing. Every conversation is about the church, friends, activities, entire life. Found myself defending, explaining and pretty much just getting my feelings hurt all the time. Thought I was a good person/Christian until I was reminded by their 'lifestyle' every day that I am lesser. How is that 'creating a good impression?'
For freedom to purchase property but who else could purchase a public street except for the LDS? It does restrict the speech of non-mormons because they are not allowed on the street. It will be restricted. Thereby, restricting free speech.
Rick,
Well, its sort of logical. Some months ago someone posted a link to "jesus is lord". The author brought up a point very similiar, if the teaching doesn't match the authors its wrong, and your doomed to hell. The author went through just about every philosophy known, including any non-main stream christian group, such as the LDS faith. Pretty much got the impression that only the author is going to heaven.
fmelo,
They do have online tithing payments now. Its easy and safer as the money is transferred electronically.
Not restricted, just relocated. You could still say whatever you want, just not in that small area. People and organizations purchase public lands all the time, not just the LDS church. While some of those sales might bother me for certain reasons, Free Speech would never be one of them. Just because a person or organization owns a certain piece of land, that doesn't stop me from being able to say or do whatever I want in the other 99.99999 percent of the world. I would think the city would be happy to sell off a dead-end street that only the LDS church uses just because it would save the city the cost and effort of maintaining it.
Really? i had no idea… seriously…
lol – now the guys in SLC will be able to have an even tighter grip on the members and the leaders… creepy…
f_melo
I'll let Enki's words speak for themselves, but before you get on the case too strongly, I think you'll find…
1 She's not a man
2 She's an ex-Mo (maybe lapsed, or a person of no fixed religious abode)
…just in case your language of "your missionaries" misses the mark somewhat.
I quite like Enki's posts here. She (he?) is quite thoughtful and asks the obvious without the brain-dead knee-jerk polemic that sometimes crops up in these kinds of discussions.
Just reposting what Jeff said, i think you still don´t get it:
"Hypothetically, what if the Roman Catholic Church purchased all public streets and sidewalks all over our nation (I know it can't and won't happen but indulge me).
What if they then turned around and said there are to be no LDS missionaries riding around on their bikes for proselyting/religious purposes. — I imagine the LDS church would be pretty upset, right? It's the same thing just on a much much smaller scale."
Everybody, lets do a fundraiser to buy streets too – and then forbid the mormons missionaries to walk on it! How about it? They can proselytize in the other 99.99999 percent of the world, that won´t bother them, don´t you think? I also hope China will never open up for them, they still can proselytize in the other 99.99999 percent of the countries, right?
"It makes you wonder if these Mormons ever ask themselves a challenging question."
No, they don´t. Like you said, god already told them by subjective spiritual experiences that the whole thing is true, and the fear to question and to risk putting yourself in satan´s hands is huge!
The White House I understand. Restricted air space, crazy people threatening the President, others looking for attention. But non-mormons talking to mormons near a temple. Do you get the hypocrisy? Non-mormons are talking about Jesus. Not trying to terrorize anyone. Badgering? That is like the pot calling the kettle black. Mormons put flyers on my car once a month at the library. Uninvited sure. But I wouldn't call it badgering. Mormons may open a conversation about Jesus, but if a non-mormon does it near a temple, 'How dare they?' Its intrusive. Please. I understand rules, no yelling, no posters, be civil. But buying a street to 'restrict free speech', then calling that freedom of speech. wow.
'They don't bother people in their homes unless its requested and by invitation, hardly bothering. You don't have to let any LDS missionary into your home, that is your right and power.' My friend is my neighbor. Our children are best friends. The witnessing never stops. The preschooler told my preschooler 'All other churches are Satan.' I said, 'Tapoles in the creek. He said, 'We have Temples.' I said, 'We have churches.' He said, 'All other churches are Satan.' To me and my preschooler/kindergartener while on a beautiful walk. Explain that one. Punches out of the blue by friends, 'Ours in the Only True Church.' I am born-again, Missouri Lutheran Synod, well-rooted and understand doctrine, theology. We were talking about anything else, and the conversation always goes back to the church, unless something terrible happens, then all conversations start with the church. It is deeper than you portray. And deceptive. No one said anything about their True doctrine, rituals (sacred underwear), must be married in the temple to become gods. Kind of feel I was sold something I didn't ask for but the kicker is the milk before meat. Why do I have to explain mormonism to my children? There was no invitation, just feel defensiveness, explanation are due, and pretty much brought into a game I didn't want when I was being courteous and neighborly.
LDS desire to change the belief of every other person not LDS. Every member a missionary. Why is that ok?
thank you for correcting me here…
yeah, i did correct some of "your missionaries" i put it before, but i should have been thorough correcting my posts. Sorry about it.
Actually i did imply that many more times even though i already knew she(where did you catch that?) said she was an ex-lds – i just got carried away with it.
I´ll be more careful next time before i "get on the case too strongly".
F Melo,
You don't understand, he placed tracks in peoples coat pockets, hanging on the coat rack. So, he wasn't simply in the building. So, it was an invation of peoples personal property. Its possible I suppose that someone LDS could do such a thing, but I have never heard of it. I can't imagine someone LDS going to a church to debate either.
I can´t edit posts if they have replies… so, my apologies…
Sorry Enki, like Martin said, i repeatedly said "your missionaries" – and you made clear you are no longer LDS. I need to be nicer and more careful in these discussions, i sincerely apologize.
My mormon friends are the most thoughtful, kind, hard working people I have ever met. I feel they are in a web. See here http://leavingscientology.wordpress.com/2010/10/2…
"he placed tracks in peoples coat pockets, hanging on the coat rack"
I have to agree with you here – that is inappropriate.
"I can't imagine someone LDS going to a church to debate either."
Regular members that i´ve known never did that(me included), but missionaries do it all the time.
I'm not saying if someone teaches something and I or you or some Christian does not agree with it, then they are wrong, we all disagree on many things. I'm saying that the Bible tells us in no uncertain terms, The Bible is Gods word, and God cannot lie. God places His word above His name.
If any man teaches something that is supposed to be from God and is not, then that person is a liar. If Someone says, God said this or that and He did not then that person is a liar. I'm saying we can say what we want, but if it does not line up with Gods word, then it is us that are wrong, not God.
Mike, Like it or not or believe it or not that LDS are all about stopping free speech. A few years ago Me and a friend went to SLC to tour the temple. The Missionary's said we were allowed to ask questions, This was my first and only time I have ever been to Utah and the temple area. So I asked one female Missionary why JS shot and killed to people. She went and got a security guy that looked like an FBI agent, he told me I was not allowed to ask questions that stirred controversy. If I asked more questions like that I would be removed from the property.
Then we were touring another building, I dont recall what building, but it had a roof top garden and lots of big hall type areas with pictures everywhere. two female Missionary's were giving a large group a tour, I simple walked up to the group and was listing and the MM's asked us, does anyone have any questions? I said I do, then I started asking some hard questions, One lady from the group said, Good questions, as soon as I did that, One MM's took me and my friend aside and the other took the group away, Then this lady tried to walk us away from the group and pretty much say, we were not welcome. This happened many times.
So dont tell me the MM's allow freedom of speech, and dont try telling me I cannot ask questions on the temple tour, I was told I could, but thats a lie. People who have no clue about Mormonism are allowed to ask questions, Like who is JS, Or why the BoM, Etc. But were not allowed to ask the hard questions.
Enki said
I'm guessing you have never read the Bible. These people have a false Gospel and are leading people to hell. They also themselves are deceived and are going to hell. The Bible tells us to turn sinners from the error of their ways, and to share the gospel with everyone.
So We/I can follow your advice and not saying anything to them and allow them to go to hell or deceive people, or I can listen to Jesus. I guess I will listen to Jesus until you can show me from the Bible why I should not share with the LDS.
Rick,
Where does it say all that?
F melo,
Its ok. Its all too easy to assume that anyone is clearly on one side or the other. This is a forum dedicated to Bible literalism and the LDS faith. Its quite alright.
Martin,
The question I really have is how would the active LDS person percieve all this? I am assuming the objective is to touch the LDS people with Christian teachings and provide an opportunity for them to find an alternative form of christianity. Its a bit of a problem if the message is received under possibly threatening circumstances.
Say if you just got married, and the moment you stepped out to go to your limo some one handed you a "christianity is a fraud' tract? Potentially that is what might happen to someone in temple square. I think they should question their faith at some time, but its different if you chose to find information on your own, rather than it finding you. I think you all do a great job of refuting mormonism, and defending biblical christianity. But Its different reading it hear, than at a dance.
Violet,
Isn't that the calling of every christian? to share the faith, spread the word? There are actually religions and philosophosies out there that do not require anyone to share, or spread anything. It seems like that would be a weak point, but they seem to still exist and spread. Kind of ironic.