This year’s General Relief Society Conference for Mormon women was held in Salt Lake City on September 29th (2012). Evidence Ministries conducted a Christian outreach outside of the event, handing out packages of tissues to the women as they headed into the building for the conference. Tucked inside of each package was a small card with a picture on one side of a woman in despair and the other side presenting the words of Jesus from Matthew 11:28: “Come unto Me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” Following the Bible verse on the card were web addresses for Evidence Ministries and four additional Christian websites that women could access if they chose.
In a recent video, Becky Walker of Evidence Ministries explained that she wanted Mormon women to know that “Jesus is the way out of all of the struggles that you face. That’s it’s not a church, it’s not a religion, it’s not an organization, it’s not a priesthood, it’s not anything other than a Person.”
The tissue packages were intended as gifts of love, but the Mormon women didn’t understand that. Blogging about the conference later, many women wrote about the surprise and dismay they experienced when they found their packages of tissues contained “anti-Mormon literature” in the form of a card displaying “an anti-Mormon quote.”
I don’t know why Mormon women would classify the words of Christ as “anti-Mormon,” bur I do have a theory about it. One woman wrote about tissue packages being “confiscated” by LDS security:
“When entering the conference center, the people who look through your purse to make sure you don’t have guns (or who knows what) asked if we had any of the tissues that were passed out. One of my relatives did and they told her that it had anti-mormon literature attached to it. The door person took the tissues from her and then asked me if I had any. I said no but then noticed the baskets of tissue they had ‘confiscated’ from other women.”
Another woman who attended the conference noted,
“When we got to our seats the usher asked us if we had gotten tissues from the ladies outside. We said yes and they told us to open them and look between the tissues and give them the card inside. The usher also told us that those ladies were anti-Mormon.”
My theory is that many Mormon women never even knew what (specifically) was inside the tissue packages or what it said on the enclosed card. Consider these two accounts told by Mormon women after the event:
“[Terri] was going through the security, the agent said ‘don’t open those, it has Anti-Mormon literature inside’. He took the tissue from Terri, showed her where it had been opened and pulled out their message they had discreetly put inside the tissues. He gave her the tissue back to use if she so wanted. When Terri told me this, I opened my tissues up and sure enough, there inside was their literature. I have no idea what it said, I just took out the card, folded it up and through [threw] it away.”
“I kept the card long enough to take the picture of it to share on this blog post but then ripped it up. I didn’t visit the sites even though I was curious for I knew that would be like opening the door to my heart and allowing Satan to walk right in, muddy shoes and all.”
I think many Mormon women were told that the tissue packages were “anti-Mormon” and so assumed that anything enclosed inside would be “anti-Mormon” through and through. These women didn’t question the Mormon priesthood-holders that confiscated their tissues and cards, they didn’t read the information in the packages, they didn’t visit the websites to see what the sites were about, they just threw away the gift that was offered in love.
When I heard about this outreach and how it was received, it brought to mind a scene from a musical production put on in Nauvoo, Illinois by the Mormon Church. I first saw “Rendezvous in Old Nauvoo” in 1993 at the Masonic/Cultural Hall in Nauvoo. Several scenes from this play have stuck with me. This particular one depicted an historical scene in which a non-Mormon discussed his concern over the Book of Mormon with a Mormon sympathizer:
“I wouldn’t touch that Book of Mormon with a ten-foot pole.”
“Why?”
“Because everyone says it’s false – even Ezra.”
“Oh, how would Ezra know? Ezra doesn’t even know how to read.”
“Well, he’s smart enough to listen to what other folks say, and Reverend Duberry says it’s a pack of lies.”
“Has he read it?”
“No! He’s not going to. He says it’s leading everyone astray.”
This scene from “Rendezvous in Old Nauvoo” was intended to communicate the idea that it is unreasonable–and even ridiculous–to dismiss something important on hearsay alone. Sadly, many of the women at the General Relief Society Conference did just that. They wouldn’t touch Jesus’ precious, healing words of hope with a ten-foot pole.
But Becky Walker won’t give up. In a letter she posted online for Mormon women to read, Becky explained, “We want you to know the easy yoke and the light burden that Jesus offers as a free gift. Won’t you ‘come unto Him’ today and ask Him to take your heavy burden?”
May Mormons everywhere reconsider and accept this precious gift of love.
For those who are interested.
Now, let me proclaim who God is, since you want to try and claim we lie about it (though I see so many lies in your comments it is hardly worth it).
God is our Heavenly Father. Through His direction the Earth and all that is in it was organized. He is the Father of our spirits, and the literal Father of the Jesus Christ. He is the great Elohim, the Head of the Gods, and the only God which we worship and serve.
Jesus Christ is the literal son of our Heavenly Father, being his only begotten in the Flesh. He lived a perfect life, just as his Father had done before him; and like his Father laid down his life and took it up again. Through this act he made it possible for all of us to return to our Father and become even as He is.
To clarify, Adam was the first man born on this Earth. He is Michael, the Archangel who stood in glory in heaven and was chosen to be the progenitor of the human race on this planet. He is not our Heavenly Father (Elohim), but is Michael, and stands as the great Patriarch of this Earth, ruling it under Christ.
Anything beyond this is unnecessary to our salvation. We will learn all truth eventually if we are faithful to the truth we have now. Whether God has a plurality of wives is not important. Whether he is the creator and head that we venerate and to whom we owe all our devotion is all th
Kate
I have met many who disagree with the doctrines of the church. Some were former members, though most were not. I will say that most do not have an acidic disposition towards the church or its doctrine. You, however, do. Every comment you make is geared to cast the worst possible thoughts against the church. You make accusations that have no foundation, and then turn around and attack those who question you.
The hatred you have for the church is so obvious in your words that a man has to be blind not to see it. If the missionaries you speak of treated you as I have than I can guarantee that it was as polite as you allowed them to.
Missionaries are sent out, not to increase tithing, but to preach the gospel and help save the souls of men. The doctrine they teach is the truth of the gospel, and they tell no lies, except maybe in ignorance, which is no large fault.
The question is this: Why did you feel the need to question them of the being of God? What was your point in bringing up these things?
The answer is obvious: You are antagonistic towards the church, and so you had to start a conflict with the missionaries. You have persuaded me, by your words and attitude, that you began the conflict, and are now trying to blame them.
Rick
Why don’t you try to actually understand things before you comment on them?
You said: “yet it is not until they believe something different than all of a sudden they believed lies and they are the trouble maker”
Things never happen “all of a sudden” and your attempt to lay this on me is what is sad.
Many people leave the church for various reasons, accept new beliefs, and never once become embittered. There was a documentary on TV a few years back that showed a man who left the church because he was a homosexual and wanted to live that life style. When asked if he had any bitter feelings he said no. The church was good, treated him with kindness and respect, and allowed him the freedom to make his own choice. This is the kind of man I can respect, for though he choose to leave, he did not do so in a bitter spirit and then turn his energy to attacking and destroying the church.
However, there are those who, for whatever reason, become so bitter in their feelings that they spend endless and pointless energy in a drive to destroy what they had once believed. They are not out to save souls, but are out to destroy something they hate. They make themselves enemies of the church, and then blame the church for their attitude. This does not happen ‘all of a sudden’ but gradually.
P.S. I know there are LDS who do not behave as they should. I never denied it. And I would hold anything they said about you as being suspect if I did not have verifying proof. Just as I will not accept the words of Kate, who obviously has a passionate
For those who are interested.
Following is a brief comment on parts of what Shem has just given as his opinion
about God. The comments I mention about Mormon doctrine are from authorities
in the Mormon church , the reader can determine if they are clearly laid out in the
Bible ( and even the Book of Mormon ) .
Mormonism= God is a common man who on another planet managed to become
“worthy ” enough to attain Godhood after death . He had to be married to attain this
exalted position , and by intimate relations with His wives has been peopling heaven
with millions of babies , spirit babies , with Jehovah being the first of these . The
three Gods in the Mormon Trinity now are ,Father, Son , and Holy Ghost , each of said
to be a male and whom were not always God nor a part of the present Trinity . Jesus’
birth at Bethlehem, like His birth in heaven, took place by the normal means of how
males and females produce offspring , His Father being the literal sire each time.
To clarify , more on Adam : Michael was said to be one of three creator Gods who were
the principle creators of this earth . This Trinity , a testimony of Brigham Young that
he incorporated into a part of the sacred Mormon Temple ceremony. Following the
example of their mentor Joseph Smith who had revealed new spiritual truth about
God , subsequent prophets revealed new truths about God/Adam. So it was taught that
Adam came from another earth, was a polygamist, [cont]
cont.
It was also thought not improper to call Adam , ” our Heavenly Father ” . Many of
those who were close to B.Y. or heard him preach , even referred to Adam as the
Father of their spirits , and this naturally led to Adam viewed as the Being who
actually fathered Jesus .
Now when Mormons like Shem state : ” Anything beyond this is unnecessary to our
salvation” , that is their way of giving their own opinion as to why many of these
truths promulgated by Mormon authorities are no longer taught today . However,
this personal opinion is only that , and it does’nt take into consideration of why would
Mormon authorities bother to publically teach their flock that God as well as Adam
were indeed polygamists. The reason is simple .The “Christian world ” was said to be
in darkness , blinded by the doctrines of men . This needed correcting therefore God
brought forth a prophet who would reveal His truths, this He did –enter Mormon
prophets. Mormons under B.Y. took the time to remind their flock that the reason
polygamy was now viewed as a gospel law in Jesus’ church was that it was connected
to exaltation for those Mormon males who were in a position to accept it , after all
It was said to be popular part of the religion in heaven . Father Adam was faithful to
that “celestial law” by bringing one of his wives to this earth to begin populating it,
and even the God who Mormons like Shem declare is the only God Mormons are to
worship was said to be Himself a polygamist ! Jesus issued caution concerning
latter-day prophets–Matt 7:15; 24:11
shematwater,
Why did I question them about their god? Well in my opinion, if we don’t have God right then none of the rest matters. I proclaimed to them who my God is. Christianity and Mormonism have different Gods. Period. I don’t worship the god of Mormonism just as you and the LDS don’t worship the God of Christianity. They tried pushing their religion and their god on me and that began the conversation. As much as you want to believe that I was horrible and they were perfect, it’s just not true. Maybe instead of attacking me personally, you could just debate the issues. We all have different opinions and writing styles and we’re all writing about our experiences and the things we have learned and studied about Mormon history, leaders, teachings and doctrines and if you have a problem with those teachings, history, leaders and doctrine you should really take that up with your LDS leaders. The Christians here (myself included) are here to show anyone investigating Mormonism just how far off the Mark it is from Christianity and the teachings in God’s Holy Word. Insult me all you want to, put me in a bad light all you want to, but I will still tell the truth about Mormonism. Truth that I never knew as a Mormon, and if I happen to help just one struggling Mormon out of the deception and into the True and living Christ, it’s worth it.
Brigham Young did in fact teach that Adam is the father of our spirits, in fact he says it that way exactly, so your last post on the subject is just not true as far as Brigham Young taught. I suggest you read the entire sermon.
http://signaturebookslibrary.org/?p=11179
This sermon given by Brigham Young on October 8th 1854 is a treasure trove of his teaching on the subject of Adam. It really is worth reading.
“Adam then was a resurrected being; and I reckon,
Our spirits and the spirits of all the human family were begotten by Adam, and born of Eve.
“How are we going to know this?”
“I reckon it.”
Kate, well said ! Most people have no idea how all encompassing the Mormon
Church can be on faithful members and their families. Once a person has found
out that Mormonism is not the one true church which it claims , then upon leaving
a person experience loss of close friends , false rumors can run wild about them
personally, and even loss of employment can occur. This would be very very
difficult to live with. As a result I would never blame a person in this situation
to be upset and angry . My wife went through much of this when she turned to
Jesus and left a religion that is practically a twin to Mormonism as concerning
authoritative claims and how they instill fear in members who might think about
leaving—God’s judgement awaits !! It took time for her to be free emotionally .
We even facilitated a support group for former members ( and family) to help them
adjust in their new lives . False prophets are not harmless especially those who
smile , act polite, and dress well .
Kate , you are a blessing to all of us here . Former Mormons need to all know that
Jesus is not to be equated with “church” . The person of the Lord Jesus Christ is
the Way , the Truth , and the Life .
“the one true church which it claims …”; “…how they instill fear in members who might think about leaving—God’s judgement awaits !!”
Is that something like the fear you try to install in me because I do not belong to YOUR one true Body of Christ, your one true version of God’s church?
Kate
Again, you twist my words to make them say what you want.
First of all, you brought up the issue of the missionaries, and are now getting angry at me for not simply swallowing your obviously biased account of your story. I am discussing the subject, and you don’t like what I am saying. If you didn’t want to discuss the missionaries than you shouldn’t have mentioned them.
Again, why did you feel the need to try and tell them what they believe? I have no problem with you declaring what you believe. That would simply be a friendly exchange. But the instant you took it upon yourself to tell them what they believed you made the situation a conflict, and took all friendliness out of it. So, why did you do this?
However, I never once said that you were horrible and they were perfect. Actually, I specifically said that I could not make any such judgment, as I did not witness the event. What I did say is that I do not believe they were as horrible as you want us to think, or that you were as benevolent.
Also, note that in the quote you give in an attempt to prove what Brigham Young taught, you also prove that he gave this only as his opinion, or as speculation concerning things that really don’t matter. Note that he “reckons” this. He does not declare it as doctrine, but guesses, by his own reasoning, that this is the case.
“Also, note that in the quote you give in an attempt to prove what Brigham Young taught, you also prove that he gave this only as his opinion, or as speculation concerning things that really don’t matter. Note that he “reckons” this. He does not declare it as doctrine, but guesses, by his own reasoning, that this is the case.”
Do you remember where it was that Brigham Young said something like – this morning you heard from me, this afternoon you will hear from the Lord?
I just found this artical indecating that Mormons are not the only ones not happy with there worship services being spamed.
“Liberals Plan Anti-Mormon Lit Drops at Evangelical Churches “
“Mega-church pastors are being notified to have parking lot attendants be on the lookout for such a lit drop. But please forward this post to all pastors of both Protestant and Catholic churches, particularly in battleground states.”
eorgot this part:
Liberals Plan Anti-Mormon Lit Drops at Evangelical Churches
http://www.lifenews.com/2012/10/23/liberals-plan-anti-mormon-lit-drops-at-evangelical-churches/
[This link cannot get past Mormon Coffee filters. To reach the article referenced please go to http://www.lifenews.com/2012/10/23/page/2/ and scroll to the last archived article listed on the page.]
“To reach the article referenced …”
Thank you for showing how to get to the web site.
Mike
It is not a personal opinion that I give, but a declared fact, both by Brigham Young as well as other leaders.
In the very sermon that Kate quotes we read “I propose to speak upon a subject that does not immediately concern yours or my welfare.”
Then there is this statement.
“Cease troubling yourselves about who God is; who Adam is, who Christ is, who Jehovah is. For heaven’s sake, let these things alone. Why trouble yourselves about these things? God has revealed Himself, and when the 121st section of the Doctrine and Covenants is fulfilled, whether there be one God or many gods they will be revealed to the children of men, as well as all thrones and dominions, principalities, and powers. Then why trouble yourselves about these things? God is God. Christ is Christ. The Holy Ghost is the Holy Ghost. That should be enough for you and me to know. If we want to know any more, wait till we get where God is in person. I say this because we are troubled every little while with inquiries from Elders anxious to know who God is, who Christ is, and who Adam is. I say to the Elders of Israel, stop this. Humble yourselves before the Lord; seek for light, for truth, and for a knowledge of the common things of the kingdom of God. …Adam is the first man. He was placed in the Garden of Eden, and is our great progenitor. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost, are the same yesterday, today, and forever. That should be sufficient for us to know.”
Woodruff, Wilford. “Discourse by President Wilford Woodruff.” Millennial Star. June 6, 1895. Pages 355-56.
None of this matters to our eternal welfare. Pure and simple.
Shem, you said, ” In the very sermon that Kate quotes we read , ‘ I propose to speak upon
a subject that does not immediately concern yours or my welfare. ‘ ”
Notice the word ” immediately ” ? He is saying that this doctrine was not an immediate issue
as it was not being received as well as he had hoped , it was troubling to many of his flock. In
another statement given on this subject those LDS who were troubled with it were encouraged
to set it aside to consider at a later time. So this in no way can be construed to mean that B.Y.
did’nt believe it was new spiritual truth from God to him .
Now you cited Pres. Woodruff and the Millennial Star . This is important because of the fact
that he also believed what B.Y. taught was spiritual truth , not mere guessing or speculation.
The article you cited was from 1895 . At this time Woodruff seemed hesitant
to publically condemn this doctrine by name, a doctrine which he had embraced for years.
But it was fading . Also, since you cited the Millennial Star , it should be noted that it as well as
other church publications had been used to inform the church about this new revealment
by their prophet .
It’s time for Mormons to put this issue to rest by standing for truth and taking a step forward
with those LDS who have testified that B.Y. erred by teaching false doctrine about God/Adam.
Following false prophets can affect one’s eternal welfare. Matt 24:11
It is time the world leaves the church alone and lets us decide what is important to our faith and what isn’t. I notice you are free with your interpretations of the motivations of the people quoted, using your perceptions as reasons why we shouldn’t actually listen to what they say, but should accept your words as what is important or not.
Two different Presidents have declared that these things don’t matter. One has told us to stop troubling ourselves concerning them. None have ever said that these things will affect our eternal salvation. Why can we not accept this and move on? Why must the enemies of the church constantly try to use this as some kind of secret weapon?
It doesn’t matter. It never has.
Shem, I think you may have it backwards because it’s time Mormon leadership leaves non
LDS alone by quit teaching that they are in spiritual darkness concerning important truths
about God which renders them false believers . Also, Jesus has warned of false prophets
in the latter days , the Mormon prophets claim to be prophets in the latter days
hence their teachings rather than be left alone , are to tested . It’s not the non LDS
who are deciding what’s important in the Mormon faith , Mormon apostles have already
done that . It is they not you who establish Mormon doctrine that’s why I shine the spot
light on them rather than you , I merely seek to warn you of the perils of being a follower
of these prophets who can’t be trusted to consistently dispense accurate spiritual truth , and
B.Y. is a good example. Mormon leaders have been clear that a correct understanding of God
is required for salvation . Mormon prophets have promised such an understanding , they have
asked to be trusted to provide the truth concerning God’s identity, many took that seriously and
embraced B.Y.’s teaching. They probably felt like Elders today, ” We learned not to question
the validity of what the prophets and apostles teach or to wonder if it makes sense.” [ Elder
Bennett, March 2012 Ensign]. Bottom line here : Apostle McConkie admitted that B.Y.
taught it, he then admitted it was false doctrine . He has also stated that only a correct
understanding of God brings salvation .This is’nt used as a secret weapon, it’s used openly to
remind people of how to identify false prophets Jesus said would come in the latter days–
Mk 13:23
Your comparison is ridiculous. It always has been and always will be.
We leave everyone alone to practice their religion as they choose. We do not take it on ourselves to infiltrate the worship services of others with our literature or doctrine. We do not establish ministries for the express purpose of destroying another religion. We do not spend our time hunting down every obscure quote ever spoken by those you claim as leaders in order to use them against you. We do not try to tell you what your leaders have taught in the past, nor try to tell you what the doctrine of your church is.
Yet, every single one of these things is done by every non-member on this site, or is supported by them. You yourself have refused to let us decide what our doctrine is, but have taken it upon yourself to interpret the words of our leaders, and then ram your interpretations down our throats, all the time complaining that we resist swallowing.
I have never had a problem with people saying we are wrong, and even explaining in a friendly manner why they think so. When I say it is time for you to leave us alone I am talking about organizing to actively attack our faith, disrupt our services, and slander our leaders. It is time that all ministries that are build up for the purpose of destroying another religion were torn down themselves and all those who support and participate in them repent.
Shem, I think what is ridiculous is your latest comments . You have failed to provide a
reasonable answer as to why Mormon leaders, Brigham Young in particular, can be relied on
to be consistent trustworthy guides in spiritual truth . I was amazed at your exaggerations
especially when you said that ” We leave everyone alone to practice their religion
as they choose ” . And , ” We do not establish ministries for the express purpose of
destroying another religion.” I’m not sure who you mean by “we” here. Are you speaking
for you and your leaders? If so then I will include you in what follows regarding the
attacking of another’s religion . If by “destroying ” another’s religion means calling it false
and devoid of salvation then that is what your leaders have done to others—mine included.
References are available : ” modern Christianity in all it’s parts ” has “perverted” the gospel.
“The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God.”
What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing….Why so far as the things
of God are concerned they are the veriest fools…” There are only two churches on
the earth , the church of Jesus and the other is the whore of Babylon. ” what is the church of the
Devil in our day? … it is modern Christianity in all it’s parts.”
Shem, despite this attack on my religion , I forgive you. Followers of false prophets don’t see
the danger they’re in and can verbally attack those who seek to warn them. I seek to warn you.
Mk 13:23
Mike
You still don’t get it, and no, I have exaggerated nothing. It is true that the religion and doctrine you follow is a perversion of the true gospel, and thus has no power to bring salvation to anyone. However, we (meaning the LDS church, which refers to the majority of members) are content to let it exist as long as there are those who believe in it. We will reason with the individual when time and place permit, but we do not seek conflict with the body in general.
On the other hand, this website, and hundreds, if not thousands, like it are set up not to reason with the individual, but to seek conflict with the body in general; their purpose is not to reason the truths of their doctrine, but to attack the doctrine of others. They are not set up to bring people the world to what you think is the truth; but to target a specific faith in the hopes of dragging people away from it. This is not an exaggeration, but an accurate assessment of all such “ministries” that people have set up.
If this was not the case their time would be spent more in preaching what they think is right, and less would be spent in seeking out obscure quotes.
Notice in all his preaching Christ never sought to point out the false doctrine of others, but to preach the true gospel. He never once sought out the pharisees in order to pull them down, but sought only to build up the truth. When the false teachers posed a question he answered and explained their error, but he never sought these opportunities.
Why can people, who claim to follow Christ, not act as he did?
Shem, actually I “get it ” clearly. I get it that you have resorted to a persecution complex
that many Mormons seem to utilize as a last resort when they have used up the old worn out
alibi’s to defend their prophets false doctrines. You claimed to be attacked yet those you have
given your allegiance to have been quite busy attacking the faith of others. I can’t speak about
all the “ministries” you want to lump together as I have no idea who they all are but the picture
you want to paint in order to distance your leaders from some similar behavior you accuse
non LDS of , is just ridiculous . It’s easier to claim someone is attacking you rather than deal
with the evidence of how B.Y. packaged false doctrine as a new revealment from God.
Concerning Jesus and His will about false teachers, you might read your Bible more in context
as Jesus trained men who He would later send out to teach but to also warn of false prophets/
teachers — Acts 20:28-31 ; 2Cor 11:4,13-15; Gal.1:8 ; 2Pt 2:1 ; 1Jn 4:1-3
Followers of Jesus are obligated to do this same thing today. Hopefully in accordance with
1Peter 3:15
Now because you’re seeking to take this dialogue down to a low level I think it’s time for me
to go.
Percecution exists against the LDS, and your denying it doesn’t alter the fact. The problem is that you do not like categorizing the acts of Christians as forms of persecution. What I have listed is far different from anything that any of the leaders, at least to my knowledge, has ever done or said. Stating that someone is wrong is far different than actively trying to destroy their faith.
However, since you prefer not to address such issues, let us leave the subject here.
Shem, I said that LDS hav’nt been persecuted ? Wrong. Your leaders have attacked my
beliefs , they have attempted to destroy my faith and you don’t want to see this . To you
this is’nt attacking , it’s only such when I firmly disagree with Mormon doctrine .
Just because your church does’nt do everything to others just like ” all ” those non-Mormon
ministries you mentioned are doing to LDS you rationalize that your leadership is innocent
of attacking the beliefs/faith of others . Ridiculous . So your attitude suggests to me that it is
better for me to move on as this dialogue has regressed . May God help you to see that you
don’t need your prophets , salvation is available without them —Heb 1-2 ; 7:25 . That’s my
prayer for you .