Charles Harrell is an Associate Professor at Brigham Young University. In his 2011 book, This Is My Doctrine: The Development of Mormon Theology, he discusses many issues not normally found in a typical LDS-authored book. One such issue is the “Adam-God Doctrine.” Dr. Harrell explains,
“The Adam-God doctrine, which according to available evidence was introduced in Mormonism by President Brigham Young, is the belief that Adam is literally God the Father—the father of our spirits and of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Despite President Young’s affirmation that this was a doctrine ‘which God revealed to me,’ [Brigham Young, “Discourse,” Deseret News, June 18, 1873, 308] it is no longer countenanced by the Church and, in fact, has been labeled by Bruce R. McConkie as a ‘deadly heresy’ inspired of the devil. [“The Seven Deadly Heresies,” 78]” (“This Is My Doctrine”: The Development of Mormon Theology (Part 1) (Kindle Locations 3935-3939)
In his book, Dr. Harrell notes that Brigham Young first preached the Adam-God doctrine during a sermon in April of 1852. Found in Journal of Discourses volume 1, Brigham Young was recorded saying:
“Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken–HE is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later…
“When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the Father? He is the first of the human family; and when he took a tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in heaven, after the same manner as the tabernacles of Cain, Abel, and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve; from the fruits of the earth, the first earthly tabernacles were originated by the Father, and so on in succession. I could tell you much more about this; but were I to tell you the whole truth, blasphemy would be nothing to it, in the estimation of the superstitious and over-righteous of mankind. However, I have told you the truth as far as I have gone…
“Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation.” (Journal of Discourses 1:50-51; emphasis in the original)
Dr. Harrell suggests that Brigham Young got the idea for the Adam-God doctrine “from the ever progressive teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith on the Godhead, the plurality of Gods, and origin of Adam and Eve,” but provides evidence that the 1852 sermon was the first public exposure of the teaching. He adds,
“To be sure, many of Young’s associates resisted this doctrine, arguing that it conflicted with earlier revelations. Later LDS commentators would minimize the significance of Brigham Young’s Adam-God teachings, explaining that he was either misunderstood or was merely theorizing. However one chooses to interpret the historical record, President Young discontinued teaching the doctrine publicly after 1861 and, following his death, the doctrine gradually fell into disfavor and is now regarded as heretical.”
Though Dr. Harrell uses the year 1861 as the end of Brigham Young’s public teaching that Adam is God the Father, Deseret News reported on a discourse preached by Brigham Young on June 18th, 1873 in which he said,
“How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which is revealed to them, and which God revealed to me — namely that Adam is our father and God…Our Father Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys of everlasting life and salvation to all his children who have or ever will come upon the earth…
“[Father Adam] was the first man on the earth, and its framer and maker. He, with the help of his brethren, brought it into existence. Then he said, ‘I want my children who are in the spirit world to come and live here. I once dwelt upon an earth something like this, in a mortal state, I was faithful, I received my crown and exaltation. I have the privilege of extending my work, and to its increase there will be no end. I want my children that were born to me in the spirit world to come here and take tabernacles of flesh…” (Deseret News, June 18, 1873, 308 [at link see page 4])
Brigham Young’s Adam-God teaching was not insignificant during his lifetime. Just months before Brigham Young’s death on August 29, 1877, L. John Nuttall summarized part of the endowment ceremony’s lecture at the veil, composed by Brigham Young. As recorded in Nuttall’s journal, the lecture included this:
“Father Adam’s oldest son, Jesus the Savior, who is the heir of the family, is Father Adam’s first begotten in the spirit world and the only begotten according to the flesh (as it is written), Adam in his divinity having gone back into the spirit world and come in the spirit to Mary, and she conceived.” (L. John Nuttall Journal, February 7, 1877)
Nor did Brigham Young’s death put an end to the Saints believing his Adam-God doctrine. A dozen years after Brigham Young was gone, Abraham Cannon (then a President of the Seventy) related a conversation he had with his father, LDS Apostle George Q. Cannon (who was then serving in the First Presidency under Wilford Woodruff). George Cannon convinced his son of several “Gospel principles” and, among other tenets of Mormonism, related this doctrine:
“He [George Q. Cannon] believes that Jesus Christ is Jehovah, and that Adam is His father and our God…” (Journal of Abraham H. Cannon, June 23, 1889)
George Q. Cannon died in 1901, but Brigham Young’s Adam God doctrine lived on. Leaders of the Mormon Church began to make a greater effort to define the LDS doctrine of deity beginning around 1909, yet in 1912 it was reported that “some patriarchs had been teaching the Adam-God doctrine to Church members” (David John Buerger, “The Adam-God Doctrine,” Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Spring 1982, 42). And in 1916 Charles Penrose (then the second counselor in the First Presidency) said in General Conference:
“There still remains, I can tell by the letters I have alluded to, an idea among some of the people that Adam was and is the Almighty and Eternal God…..[T]he notion has taken hold of some of our brethren that Adam is the being that we should worship…..I am sorry that has not been rectified long ago, because plain answers have been given to brethren and sisters who write and desire to know about it, and yet it still lingers, and contentions arise in regard to it, and there should be no contentions among Latter-day Saints.” (as quoted in Buerger, 42)
Still, the Adam God doctrine didn’t die within the first two decades of the 20th century. Indeed, Spencer W. Kimball warned against believing the Adam God doctrine and even denounced it during the October 1976 General Conference. LDS Apostle Bruce McConkie continued that warning and in 1980 told students at BYU,
“There are those who believe, or say they believe, that Adam is our Father and our God, that he is the Father of our spirits and our bodies and that he is the one we worship. The devil keeps this heresy alive…anyone who has received the temple endowment and who yet believes the Adam-God theory does not deserve to be saved.” (“Seven Deadly Heresies,” as quoted in Buerger, 45)
Brigham Young believed it; and he made certain it was taught during the temple endowment ceremony.
Many early Mormon Church leaders — and members — believed what Brigham Young, the “Lion of the Lord,” declared to his Church as revelation from God. Many people (Mormon Fundamentalists) still believe it.
Jesus said, “Ye shall know them by their fruits” (Matthew 7:16). What does this fruit of Mormonism tell you?
I have a hard time understanding how Mormon’s can brush off Young’s teachings as if they don’t matter.
Yea, this is a tough deal for Mormons. Here they have their main feature, a prophet who hears from and speaks for the Mormon god, and then they have to deny what the prophet taught and make excuses for him. It just won’t work.
At least the FLDS don’t run away from the crazy uncle in the attic, Brigham Young. They embrace him and his teaches.
So that gets us to one of Mormonisms big problems. Who has the “revelation”. That is, what religious sect of Mormonism is the right one? Take your pick and if that doesn’t work, become your own prophet. Why not? Any individual could do as well as these guys claiming to be prophets.
I said I wasnt going to post anymore but this topic was too good to pass off.
Although many places in scripture speak of various parts of Gods body (the hand of God, Gods wings etc.) or speak of God in anthropomorphic terms, (God walking in the garden) it is also very clear that God does not have a body.
Scripture only speaks of God in those ways to help people understand the actions of God easier. We are not allowed to speak of God in a physical form. Doing that is an act of idolotry. Just like when the children of Israel made the golden calf. They wanted to worship the God that brought them out of Egypt so they tried to give him a form. The sin was forming the graven image and worshiping it.
If God had a physical form, that would mean that he exists inside a framework of existance. This would also mean that his existence would depend on the existence of that framework and this is a contradiction since Gods existence is dependent on nothing.
Pagan gods have attributes similar to the human image. Their gods are born, they die, they have desires, they fight wars and have bodies similar to humans. They are a reflection of the humans who create them.
The correct interpretation of Gen 1:27 is that we resemble God in that we are not driven by uncontrollable impulses like animals are but instead have the ability to choose right from wrong.
I read a quote by a famous teacher that I thought went well with this.
“When the scriprures say we are created in the image of God, it means not in a bodily but in a spiritual likeness. To be like God we must lead lives that are Godlike or Godly. We are like Him when we exercise loving-kindness, justice and righteousness and take delight in these things.”
Catty–
Great to hear from you, and I hope you keep posting here. You bring up good questions.
On this, I agree. God’s human attributes are only thus described to help us understand him, not to describe him as he may be. I also agree that being like him does not mean physically like him, but like him spiritually.
This tells me how Jesus sought to warn of men who will come in the latter days claiming to be
prophets, claiming that they heard from God , to reveal new doctrine —- Brigham Young was
a latter day prophet he warned us about : Matt 24:11 . Such false prophets fool sincere people
into supporting them .
Sadly, the Mormon people have succumbed to what Paul warned about in 2 Tim 4:3,4 .
Our love for the Mormon people compels us to take time to help steer them to a more reliable source for spiritual truth — the teachings of Jesus’ apostles in the N.T.
When I first studying Mormonism the thing that struck me was how dishonest the religion was. It was very hard to pin these folks down as they provided a moving target. The Brigham Young, Adam-God doctrine is one of many examples of this dishonesty. The LDS church refuses to own it and yet in BY’s time, it was not just the old man’s opinion. The religion changes often and has a convenient out, continuous revelation. With that as a rationale, anything is possible. And think of it. We have all of these other sects of Mormonism, claiming to have the true revelation, that won’t go near BY with a ten foot pole.
Think back to the beginning of Mormonism and how Smith would go through these crisis points where he’d lose members. Early on it happened when he dumped his Book of Commandments to the D&C and changed the structure of his one true church. Smith continued to morph his religion going from monotheism to polytheism and incorporating the Free Masonry rituals into his religious ruse. I could go on-and-on but the most frustrating thing is the excuse making, truth shading and down right lying by the Mormon leadership in particular.
Without the whole sale rationalization, the average Mormon wouldn’t be able to stick it out. It’s just one more thing to put on the shelf until, as many ex-Mormons tell us, the shelf collapses.
Actually it is erroneous to perpetuate the idea that “many of Young’s associates resisted this doctrine”, (there was only one and that was Orson Pratt), and that Young “discontinued teaching the doctrine publicly after 1861”, which is just a flat out lie. Young GAVE in PUBLIC the most comprehensive sermon on Adam-God of his career in 1873 and HAD IT PUBLISHED in the Deseret News in June of that year. Why this sermon keeps getting ignored by Mormon Apologists is something of a mystery. Matthew Brown did the same thing in 2010. In that sermon, Young said,
What Harrell seems to be selling here is simply made up apologia. If the rest of his research is like this, it isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.
As for many of his associates resisting the doctrine, here is Wilford Woodruff’s complete Journal entry for January 27, 1860. You tell me if any except for Orson Pratt were resisting Young:
Instructions to the Saints January 29 1860 (Rebuke of Orson Pratt)
On the 26th of January, in the Tabernacle, Elder Orson Pratt, Sen., addressed the Saints; and, through an oversight, a portion of his remarks was printed in Vol. IX. No. 51. of The Deseret News, previous to being carefully revised. Since then those remarks have been examined by br. Pratt and the Council, and are now printed as agreed upon by them, as follows:
Well grindael………………
What all this tells me is that there was a great falling away and an apostasy in the Mormon religion upon the death of the venerable prophet Brigham Young.
But wait a minute. Haven’t there been all sorts of falling away(s) and apostasies in Mormonism? I don’t know if you could take the time to do this or if you have the resources but wouldn’t it be interesting to see a timeline from the (time) that Smith founded Mormonism with all of the break away groups? It’s even said that Smith went into apostasy with his move to multiple gods and the tie-in with polygamy. There was also apostasy when Smith restructured the leadership scheme of his religion.
We know at the very time that Young was revealing the Adam-God doctrine, there was a group of those Mormons back in Illinois that stuck with the original Mormonism. I think there was at least one earlier group who broke away from Smith when he began to deviate from the original revelation.
Mormonism is continually going into apostasy.
I think any Mormon coming to a knowledge of what is being discussed here needs to conclude that Mormonism is a mess and they need to seek God and His plan of salvation as revealed in His Holy Word, the Bible.
So my hobby horse is the premise upon which Mormonism was founded. That is, after the death of the apostles there was a great falling away as the Church went into apostasy. It was necessary, therefore, for God to restore His Church and He did so through the prophet Joseph Smith.
The problem for Mormons, if they’d ever stop to think about it, is that there is no historical basis for Smith’s claim of the great apostasy. My question to Mormons would be, “So what your brand of Mormonism believes, teaches and practices is exactly what the first century Church believed, taught and practiced?”
That would mean, with some of these groups, that the first century Church believed and taught the Adam-God doctrine? Take it back a little further. Is this what the Jews believed and taught?
It doesn’t take much examination to determine that the foundation upon which Mormonism is built, is a total sham. Historically, it’s a provable sham.
Without a great apostasy there is no need for a restoration. But what such errors in thinking produce are religious amateurs like Smith, Young et.al who prided themselves on their endless speculation and penchant for coming up with all sort of strange and weird doctrine like Adam-God.
Is it any wonder that guys like Bruce McConkie would go postal over Smith’s Adam-God doctrine. And guess what? Today McConkie is viewed as a sort of crackpot by the Mormon establishment while his tome “Mormon Doctrine” was a guide to at least a couple of generations of Mormons. McConkie of course was the Mormon leader who warned against Mormons attempting to have a personal relationship with Jesus. That, in his view, was a major no no.
What Mormons need is the truth and they certainly aren’t going to get it following a bunch of self-appointed and self-anointed prophets.
I think if I would have heard about this before I joined I would never have joined the church. This is outright pagan idolotry. People who know that the church associates itself with these teachings and they do not turn away from the church will be held accountable before God. This is such a dangerous teaching I dont know how to even express how terrified these people should be to stand before God and they give an account for this.
God is ONE, Echad. There is none before and non after.
Deut 4, 6, Isaiah 43:10, 45, Exodus 20, Deut 4:35~39, Deut 32:39, 1 Samuel 2:1~2, 2 Samuel 7:22, Isaiah 44:6~8, Isaiah 44:24, Isaiah 46:9, Hosea 13:4, Malachi 2:10
We will never know everything that God knows. Not even in the world to come. The angels dont know everything. Scripture says our ways are not his ways and our thoughts are not his thoughts. It says there is none like him and there never will be. Satan wanted to be like God and we see where that got him. God will always be above us and beyond our understanding. He is our reedeemer and our salvation, the almighty and only creator of heaven and earth and I am not even worthy to speak his name. Blessed be the name of the ONE and only God who is NOT a created being like me but an eternal, powerful, everlasting God whose existance and authority is dependent on NOONE!
I think if I would have heard about this before I joined I would never have joined the church. This is outright pagan idolotry. People who know that the church associates itself with these teachings and they do not turn away from the church will be held accountable before God. This is such a dangerous teaching I dont know how to even express how terrified these people should be to stand before God and they give an account for this.
God is ONE, Echad. There is none before and non after.
Deut 4, 6, Isaiah 43:10, 45, Exodus 20, Deut 4:35~39, Deut 32:39, 1 Samuel 2:1~2, 2 Samuel 7:22, Isaiah 44:6~8, Isaiah 44:24, Isaiah 46:9, Hosea 13:4, Malachi 2:10
We will never know everything that God knows. Not even in the world to come. The angels dont know everything. Scripture says our ways are not his ways and our thoughts are not his thoughts. It says there is none like him and there never will be. Satan wanted to be like God and we see where that got him. God will always be above us and beyond our understanding. He is our reedeemer and our salvation, the almighty and only creator of heaven and earth and I am not even worthy to speak his name. Blessed be the name of the ONE and only God who is NOT a created being like me but an eternal, powerful, everlasting God whose existance and authority is dependent on NOONE!
The question that should be asked of every Mormon is simply, “What is Mormonism?”
I’m sure they’d give the lost gospel razzamatazz but if follow-up questions were asked regarding the morphing of the “restored gospel” they’d be stumped.
Take the LDS sect for example. Is what they believe about the nature of God consistent with the doctrine at the time the Mormon church was founded? Is the LDS church following Brigham Young and his defined doctrine of the nature of God?
There were a bunch of Mormons who didn’t follow Brigham Young out to Utah and they became known as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Today they go by the name of Community of Christ. This is who they say God is:
“We believe in one living God who meets us in the testimony of Israel, is revealed in Jesus Christ, and moves through all creation as the Holy Spirit. We affirm the Trinity—God who is a community of three persons. All things that exist owe their being to God: mystery beyond understanding and love beyond imagination. This God alone is worthy of our worship.”
http://www.cofchrist.org/ourfaith/faith-beliefs.asp
I offer this as an example of the confusion that exists within the restored gospel. I visited the historical site in Council Bluffs, Iowa where the leadership of the LDS church was “sustained” after the Mormons had left Nauvoo. The tour guide made a big deal out of this. Wouldn’t a questioning Mormon have to ask the very important question as to the ascendancy of Brigham Young to the office of prophet? Given the wacko doctrines this guy promoted like Adam-God it would seem that he wasn’t a very good choice. The CoC on the other hand, have a doctrine that more closely resembles the founding of the Mormon church. The FLDS have a doctrine that’s pure Brigham Young. The LDS seem to float but they definitely don’t have a prophet that addresses any of these pertinent issues. Mormonism is a mess!
Here’s a short article on Brigham Young’s ascendency to power.
http://www.mrm.org/topics/historical-issues/brigham-youngs-rise-power
grindael , thanks for the info . It sheds more light on this doctrine Brigham Young introduced
to his flock .
Dr Harrell acknowledges that Brigham Young did in fact introduce this doctrine and proceeded
to teach it as doctrine to the Mormon people . That admission is refreshing . There have many
Mormons resort to clever excuses to rescue Young from being a religious leaders who taught
false doctrine to his followers . He did introduce it as doctrine and proceeded for over 20 years
to convince his flock that it was line up upon line — new light on of what he had learned about
Adam from his mentor Joseph Smith .
Unfortunately for the Mormon people their prophet had refused correction concerning his
believing and teaching this doctrine to them , thus succumbing to rightly being viewed as a
false prophet . This malady is not new , in Paul’s day their were men claiming to be prophets
who attempted to introduce egregious doctrines into the church body — 2Pt 2:1 . Mormon
prophet Brigham Young is a modern day counterpart to these types of prophets .
Yet today Mormons authorities make the claim that their prophet will NEVER teach / condone
false doctrine to them . This amazing statement comes near the same time that Mormon
apostle Bruce McConkie admits privately to a BYU prof that Young did teach false doctrine
to his flock !
When the Mormon people can admit that Brigham Young did in fact convince many LDS to
believe in this terrible doctrine then they will have done what is right . Failure to give
testimony to this fact signals something is amiss in their respect for God because God
does not look favorably on those who harbor false prophets — prophets who teach people
false doctrine IN HIS NAME .Isa 9:16
The Mormon people deserve to be free from supporting / following latter days false prophets .
Jesus warned the Mormon people that these prophets would come — Matt 24:11
It just doesn’t fit. A religion that claims its prophet hears directly from God and then denies a very fundamental doctrine taught by one of these prophets. The fact that Mormons deny the authenticity of Brigham Young’s Adam-God doctrine and want to still hold on to the infallibility of their prophet is proof of the cognitive dissonance of this religion.
So if Young is wrong on Adam-God and if polygamy was outlawed as a practice as introduced by the founding prophet Joseph Smith, what’s wrong with this picture? Very clearly the claim of having a prophet isn’t all that special.
Do these people even read scripture? Just reading Genesis alone tells you Youngs teachings contradict. Young says Adam came into the garden with Eve. Genesis says God placed Adam in the garden by himself at first. Later God made Adam fall asleep and created Eve from one of his ribs. So where do they get this teaching?
cattyjane,
We have the Garden of Eden as presented in the Bible then we have the Mormon Garden of Eden which was located right here in America.
“In the beginning, after the earth was prepared for man, the Lord commenced his work upon what is now called this American continent, where the Garden of Eden was made. In the days of Noah, in the days of the floating of the ark, he took the people to another part of the earth: the earth was divided, and there he set up his kingdom.”
– Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 195, October 7, 1860
“You have been both to Jerusalem and Zion, and seen both. I have not seen either, for I have never been in Jackson County. Now it is a pleasant thing to think of and to know where the Garden of Eden was. Did you ever think of it? I do not think many do, for in Jackson County was the Garden of Eden. Joseph has declared this, and I am as much bound to believe that as to believe that Joseph was a prophet of God.”
– Prophet Brigham Young, Journal History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, March 15, 1857
Read more here:
http://mormonthink.com/QUOTES/gardenofeden.htm
I think a common lament by we apologetic type Christians in regards to Mormons is, “How can they believe this stuff?”
But then we listen to and read the testimonies of those who have come out of Mormonism and we do gain some clarity. For some, it’s all they’ve ever known. And for most of these folks, they didn’t know any of the information that eventually led them out of the LDS church.
The ones that sort of blow-me-away are those who visit us here at MC, have the information, and still cling to their testimony as if it were a life jacket of sorts. A few things are very clear. The gospel, as presented in the NT, bears no resemblance to what the LDS church teaches, believes and practices. The “restored” gospel is a mish mash of bizarre notions that has no connection to what the Witnesses to Jesus Christ taught. In fact, what the LDS church teaches can’t be found any where in the history of the Christian church.
I guess the only explanation as to why some cling to the LDS religion even in light of the fact that their past prophets are pretty much ignored (i.e. Brigham Young with Adam-God, Blood Atonement etc.) is that we are engaged in a spiritual war as described by the Apostle Paul in his letter to the Ephesians. He writes that we don’t war against flesh and blood but the spiritual powers in the heavenlies. As to this war, we put on the full armor of God, as Paul explains, and depend solely on the Holy Spirit to bring these confused Mormons to Christ.
Falcon, it’s sad how the Mormon people have been fooled into following the latter days prophets
of Mormonism . We see why Jesus took the time to warn everyone living in the latter days to
watch out for such men ( Mk 13:22-23 ) . This issue with Mormon prophet Brigham Young is
a textbook example of the necessity for heeding Jesus’ warning .
It is quite enlightening to observe the excuses some Mormons use in trying to rescue Young
from being seen as a latter days false prophet . A couple of years ago I experienced this
behavior by a Mormon apologist here on this blog ( see the thread ” Gift of Love ” 10-8-2012
start at 10-19 . Also the thread ” Unwise Choices lead Mormons to Disillusionment ” 10-11- 2012
start at 10-30 ) .
The Mormon people who are concerned about doing the right thing will dismiss their prophets ,
salvation is available without them as authorities in their lives .
There is a more reliable source to learn important spiritual truths — the preaching of Jesus’
apostles in the New Testament .
Thanks for this interesting topic, Sharon. In my experience, when an LDS person is exposed to this and other teachings of Brigham Young, the reaction is generally one or more of the following:
1. Surprise
2. Disbelief (questioning authenticity, context, or circumstances)
3. Anger (at the messenger)
Reactions may vary, but I think the meaning is the same: “I did not know. I do not believe it.” The LDS people do not believe Brigham Young. Most just don’t realize it. The LDS people are kind and well respected. On the surface, they appear to be so together. They do not look like victims. And yet they are. Most just don’t realize it.
On the first Sunday each month, testimonies may be heard in LDS services across the country. Often they focus on an institution and its leaders. The leaders are prophets and the institution itself is true. This means it may be believed when it speaks on the most important of subjects. Such as how one may be forgiven. How eternal life is to be acquired. How one may be in right relationship with God. And yet, have you ever wondered what God’s testimony is? Have you heard his testimony? It is found in a passage from the book I am currently studying. It is not a testimony about an institution. Or prophets. Or a code of laws. It is a testimony about his Son:
“We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life” (1 John 5:9-12).
Jesus Christ is eternal life. When one receives Jesus, one receives eternal life (John 5:24). Do you have eternal life? If not, then you do not have Jesus Christ.
http://www.cru.org/how-to-know-god/would-you-like-to-know-god-personally/
Brian and Mike,
I’ve been watching the “ex-files” with Earl Erskine a former Mormon bishop. Earl interviews former Mormons and it is quite enlightening to me. It’s a wide-swath of personalities and interesting journey out stories. They last about 27 minutes each and I find time flying by when I watch them. Some of the folks most of us will know while others are basically rank and file types who tell compelling accounts of moving away from the religion of Joseph Smith’s creation and into a loving relationship with Jesus Christ. I’ll link to the one I’m currently watching. I think it has some applicability to our current conversation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7KakRz9yqo
In the interview that I link to above, Earl says, “It’s funny. I know more about Mormonism as a former Mormon than I knew when I was (a Mormon).”
That helps explain a lot. Rick and I in particular, have in the past been accused by Mormon posters of not knowing anything about Mormonism. I’ve had to tell them, “No, we know a lot about Mormonism. The problem you face is that we don’t believe Mormonism.” These Mormons confuse knowing and believing. It’s not that difficult to become an expert in Mormonism. It is, after all, just information. It’s not brain surgery!
With Mormonism it’s not even about taking things out of context, or misquoting or mis-representing. Take our current topic, Brigham Young’s Adam-God doctrine. All someone has to do is access the information and there’s plenty of it out there on Brigham Young. The typical Mormon doesn’t have much of a desire to look into these things because they have a bad case of the “I knows”.
Falcon,
Yep that is true. When I first came to this site I would laugh at you guys and say where do they come up with this stuff, there is no way this is true! And then I found out that it was and became very angry at the whole situation. I kmow more now about LDS than I ever did before. I dont even tell people I meet that im a member of the church. Its a total embarressment.
cattyjane,
Thanks for the post because it reinforces what many of us have been aware of, that is that Mormons are in darkness and in much need of the light of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Look at how your mind has been cleansed by the pure water of the Word of God. In the interview that I linked to above, the former Mormon said that what flipped him initially wasn’t learning more about Mormonism but learning about the gospel as it is revealed in God’s Word. He pursued God because he became obcessed with the idea of being born again. Learning what this is and who God is, led him out of Mormonism. He saw the stark contrast between what Mormonism teaches and what God has revealed in His Word.
I find it interesting that when you first came here you had no idea where we came up with what we present regarding Mormonism. Thankfully, through the Spirit of God, you were led to the truth and have made your committeemen to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Slow on the spell check trigger tonight. Obcessed (?) I think I meant obsessed.
Falcon, thanks for the series of interesting stories you made us aware of. I love reading (and sometimes viewing) stories of people’s spiritual journeys.
Cattyjane, thanks for being a part of this forum. It sounds like a painful time you have been through. Perhaps many LDS people are presently going through what you did. I don’t know if there are a lot of LDS people that write in this forum. I wish there were more. Yet maybe we have many who read the forums. And that is great. I hope they find encouragement here, as God’s word is shared. His promises. And the comfort it is to be pardoned and accepted by God. Thank you for sharing your experience here, Cattyjane.
Hearing of others’ stories reminds me of a dear friend, and his experience in the LDS religion. He did not know the Bible very well at the time. But he did know about the Great Commission and “all nations.” This puzzled him, as at the time some nations were off limits to the LDS church. As a schoolteacher, he had some black students in his classroom. Seeing some of them in broken homes and not receiving the support they needed, he thought if anyone needed the morality and structure offered in the LDS religion, it was his black students. They greatly bothered him. He wrote letters to LDS leaders, hoping for answers. And he began a yearlong period of intense Bible study. Eventually, he informed the LDS leaders that he was leaving. He was excommunicated, losing his family and most of his friends. Tom is possibly the most vibrant Christian I’ve met in my life. I am grateful to be friends with him.
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