Cloverton’s beautiful lyrics:
I’ve heard about this baby boy
Who’s come to earth to bring us joy
And I just want to sing this song to you
It goes like this, the fourth, the fifth
The minor fall, the major lift
With every breath I’m singing Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah
A couple came to Bethlehem
Expecting child, they searched the inn
To find a place for You were coming soon
There was no room for them to stay
So in a manger filled with hay
God’s only Son was born, oh Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah
The shepherds left their flocks by night
To see this baby wrapped in light
A host of angels led them all to You
It was just as the angels said
You’ll find Him in a manger bed
Immanuel and Savior, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah
A star shown bright up in the east
To Bethlehem, the wise men three
Came many miles and journeyed long for You
And to the place at which You were
Their frankincense and gold and myrrh
They gave to You and cried out Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah
I know You came to rescue me
This baby boy would grow to be
A man and one day die for me and you
My sins would drive the nails in You
That rugged cross was my cross, too
Still every breath You drew was Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Oh, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Merry Christmas everyone.
And cattyjane I know it not the real birthday of Jesus. But it wont be long before our government bans people from saying merry Christmas. The white house has become such an Obama-nation (abomination) that he wont mention the name of Jesus.
That video kind of made me want to go to church. Music is so powerful. Someone posted a video on my facebook today. It was about a Muslim who was a evangelist for Islam and taught that Jesus was not God. He said that he got a question from the audience once that asked, who was Jesus. He said that he hadn’t considered that before, but just always taught that he wasn’t God. He decided to read through the Koran and see what it said. He read the entire Koran and stated that there was only 4 mentions of the Prophet Muhammad but there was 25 mentions of Jesus. He stated that no woman is ever mentioned in the Koran except for one and that is Miriam, Jesus Mother. He said that the Koran states that Mary was born without original sin and that she was a virgin. About Jesus he said that the Koran stated that Jesus was the Word of God and the Spirit of God. He said that it states Jesus could create from mud, heal the sick, give life to the dead, that he went to heaven, is still alive and will come again.
After reading these things he went and asked his teacher how God created the universe. His teacher said, God created the universe through the Word. He then asked, is the Word of God Creator or creation? His teacher said it was creator. His comment to this was that the Koran says Jesus is the Word of God and if his teacher says that the Word of God is creator, than this means Jesus is Creator. He stated if that is true than the Muslims must become Christians.
I think he asked a good question, and the way he explained it makes sense. Wow.
Cattyjane,
it’s funny that you mention the Qur’an, on my radio show I am going through the Qur’an. I am reading through the entire Qur’an cover to cover and talking about it.
Do we have to have perfect theology in order to be saved?
The Bible says quite clearly that we are saved by grace through faith. It is important, however, to know who Jesus is. I’ve been reading some again lately on what the Church Fathers taught.
Jesus is the Word of God. He was/is “in God”. He proceeded from the Father. The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. One God. Three distinct persons.
Now does someone have to understand or get this just right to be saved? I don’t think so. But I think it is necessary to see Jesus as God incarnate who gave Himself for our sins. Our lives are then transformed upon being born again by the Spirit of God. We walk in the light as He is in the light and the Blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all unrighteousness.
I hope everyone had a wonderful, blessed Christmas.
Its funny hoe God works. On Christmas eve, we went to a different church for the Christmas eve service, because my church is in demolition mode as we expand the building. We’re meeting at the local high school on Sunday mornings, and the congregation decided not to pay for a service on Christmas eve. Any way, the church we went to was one in which one of my son’s friend is the pastor, its a Disciples of Christ church. This one seems very conservative and believes in the Trinity. However, as we were waiting for the service to begin, I looked up the denomination and found that many Disciples of Christ do not believe in the Trinity. They do strongly emphasize the deity of Christ.
I could not help but think of this forum, and seeing Falcon’s post I thought I would bring it up. I don’t know much about this church, but the timing of recent discussions is curious.
thanks MJP I hope yours was a wonderful one as well .
That is a beautiful song . When I listen to some the old Christmas hymns ( Silent Night ; Joy to The World ; Hark the Harold Angels Sing ; O Holy Night , etc ) I am blessed to know the great truths these hymns testify of , and with the New Testament in hand to read about Jesus ( who He is , what He did on the cross for me ) I am humbled . It’s comforting to realize that I don’t need a religion like Mormonism to join to gain God’s acceptance and earn eternal life . It’s leaders have truly drifted from the Bible’s teachings about God , Jesus , and salvation , and have taught for doctrine the commandments of men ( Mk 7:7) . Can’t trust men who run the Mormon church , they advertise a claim of authority to keep LDS in submission, and sadly the Mormon people believe them. Freedom to know the wonderful truths of Christmas and freedom from latter days prophets who were not sent by God is something every Mormon can experience if they walk away from these men and over to Jesus . That’s exclusively where forgiveness by God ,peace with God and salvation from God is found , and will be the best Christmas present any Mormon can receive .
It’s all about Jesus !
Merry Christmas everyone and a Happy New Year!
@ CattyJane
I received a funny email from you, wondering if it’s really from you or spam? Thanks.
Rikki,
no sorry. i dont think it was me.
MJP,
This “nature of God” topic has become a real hobby horse for me. I think it probably has at least something to do with my interest in early church history. But I have this sort of insatiable curiosity and desire to get things right.
I’m very frustrated that the LDS folks just buy the program they are fed without really looking into it. I understand why because once someone grabs a hold of the “one true church” and “a prophet who speaks for God” narrative, why question? These folks outsource their thinking to prophets who virtually have gotten everything wrong. But it all comes in a very compelling package.
The outside wrapper looks pretty good. There are neat, clean, reverent, wholesome, devout folks dedicated to their families and “god”. It’s very seductive, which is the point.
cattyjane talked about missing the friends and fellowship that she had experienced while a member of the LDS church. That’s a major part of religion for many people. I admit I’m a total oddball because that’s not a big deal for me. But “church” is there to support people in a variety of ways.
So this can stand in the way of an LDS member seeking information on troublesome aspects of the LDS religion. Now add in the brain washing that members are given that anything that feels negative must be of Satan. Once someone gets past that fantasy they are freed-up to take a serious look at Mormonism.
@Falcon, I’m really interested in studying the same things as you, especially the Logos, metaphysics, the nature of being and reality, consiousness. These are important things to know the difference in Christian understanding as opposed to gnositc ideas (which are very similar to mormonism) and also because New Age is becoming so popular.
Most new age, mormons and gnostics basically believe we are all divine beings who are working our way to realizing our full godhood through various practices and systems. The first gnostics spent time memorized secret passwords and used crystals and trying to learn secret knowledge, seeking enlightenment. Trying to escape suffering and the fallen world. Basically these were all about the self.
Christians spent time helping the poor and in self sacrifice following Jesus.
For Christians (according to the Bible) we are distinct persons created by God (as images of him) who enter into a relationship with the ONE Divine Son, the Word of God who is in us.
Man is a creature! It’s one of the first things the Bible says. Just like dogs and cats and trees are creatures. Man is special because we are images of God who is love, we were created to be love but can choose to be selfish instead and turn away from what we were created to be. In order to love truly there must be freedom.
I really like this book below:
Vladimir Lossky – Mystical Theology:
“Every created thing has its point of contact with the Godhead; and this
point of contact is its idea, reason or logos which is at the same time the end
towards which it tends. The ideas of individual things are contained within the
higher and more general ideas, as are the species within a genus. The whole is
contained in the Logos, the second person of the Trinity who is the first principle
and the last end of all created things. Here the Logos, God the Word, has the
‘economical’ emphasis proper to antenicene theology: He is the manifestation of
the divine will, for it is by Him that the Father has created all things in the Holy
Spirit. When we are examining the nature of created things, seeking to penetrate
into the reason of their being, we are led finally to the knowledge of the Word,
causal principle and at the same time end of all beings. All things were created
by the Logos who is as it were a divine nexus, the threshold from which flow the
creative outpourings, the particular logoi of creatures, and the centre towards
which in their turn all created beings tend, as to their final end. For creatures,
from the moment of their first condition, are separate from God; and their end and final fulfillment lies in union with Him or deification.”
Rev 1:8 – I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jesus said these things because he is the Eternal Word, the path to heaven, the pattern of ultimate reality. He did not say we can come to the Father by our own self realization, self deification, expanding or finding our “Higher Self” We come to the Father through our relationship with Him. Person to person.
These groups teach that Jesus is just a teacher (or ascended master) who acheived a state of “Christ Consciousness” and not the Eternal Word become Flesh, the great I AM.
makeitshine, I appreciate your contributions here . Like you I also have certain aspects of the Christian faith that interests me more than other parts . You mentioned your interests in “metaphysics , the nature of being and reality , and consciousness” etc. While I agree that kind of deep thinking has it’s place I think we all need to balance our personal interests with the type of audience we cater to , and in this case it’s to reach the LDS people for Jesus . I personally believe that 95% of the Mormons , who read this blog and see our answers to refute Mormonism , will not be interested in a super deep “mystical theology” . I have no doubt that it has it’s place , and even on here at times , but we just might lose the attention of those we are trying most to reach if we make it the main presentation here.
Again , that is only my opinion .
God bless you .
@cattyjane
Have you changed your email address recently?
Rikki
Yes. That is the only email I have sent you recently was the one saying I have a new email address. I sent you a message from my old one and to my new one stating what my new email address is.