It’s been said that one man’s trash is another man’s treasure. In this case, one man’s miracle is another man’s “satanic sukerpunch.” Both men are LDS Apostles, designated as prophets, seers and revelators in the Mormon Church. Here’s what they said:
Spencer W. Kimball:
“Your Heavenly Father has promised forgiveness upon total repentance and meeting all the requirements, but that forgiveness is not granted merely for the asking. There must be works–many works–and an all-out, total surrender, with a great humility and ‘a broken heart and a contrite spirit.'”It depends upon you whether or not you are forgiven, and when. It could be weeks, it could be years, it could be centuries before that happy day when you have the positive assurance that the Lord has forgiven you. That depends on your humility your sincerity, your works, your attitudes.” (The Miracle of Forgiveness, 324-325)
Jeffrey R. Holland:
“You can change anything you want to change, and you can do it very fast. Another satanic suckerpunch is that it takes years and years and eons of eternity to repent. That’s just not true. It takes exactly as long to repent as it takes to say, ‘I’ll change’–and mean it. Of course there will be problems to work out and restitutions to make. You may well spend–indeed, you had better spend–the rest of your life proving your repentance by its permanence. But change, growth, renewal, and repentance can come for you as instantaneously as they did for Alma and the sons of Mosiah.” (However Long and Hard the Road, 6. Quoted by C. Robert Line, “The Interplay between Forgiveness and Lost Opportunities,” BYU)
A question I would ask LDS is this. Whats so great about what you believe that I would want to follow your god or beliefe? Their is no assurance you will be saved, or you are saved and which heaven you will enter if you even do.
Then, you as a Mormon missionary simply in good faith and honesty cannot share your gospel with people on their death beds or in prison for murder, as both cannot be forgiven.
How is this “Restored” Gospel good news? What is so good about not knowing if your forgiven or not. Rick b
*SMACK!* What the…?
Now Aaron — Kimball is talking about FORGIVENESS — Holland is talking about REPENTANCE. We can control our repentance, God forgives. we don’t control His timetable. THese two quotes are not in conflict.
Neal,
That’s just a silly, artificial distinction.
Kimball said, “Your Heavenly Father has promised forgiveness upon total repentance and meeting all the requirements…” If you think Kimball is merely talking about forgiveness and not its prerequisite, “total repentance”, then please read the quote again. Kimball’s whole book could be retitled to, “The Miracle of Six-Step, Drawn-out Repentance”, because that is precisely his theme and focus.
And since repentance is the prerequisite for forgiveness, it’s hardly intellectually honest to say Holland’s quote doesn’t concern forgiveness. In fact, Robert C. Line quoted Holland in his paper, “The Interplay between Forgiveness and Lost Opportunities”, which is where I got the quote (as noted above in the post).
As for your statement, “we don’t control His timetable“. This can be extremely misleading. Mormon leaders have very clearly laid out an objective timetable that God abides by in bestowing forgiveness, specifically the completion of the six steps of repentance.
“There is one crucial test of repentance. This is abandonment of the sin. Desire is not sufficient. In other words, it is not real repentance until one has abandoned the error of his ways and started on a new path… the saving power does not extend to him who merely wants to change his life. Trying is not sufficient.” – Spencer W. Kimball (Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 163)
“Oh, but then there is the joy of experiencing the joyful heart and the peace of mind that come from feeling the Spirit and being granted the remission of our sins after attaining full repentance from our transgression because of our faith in Jesus Christ.” – Robert D. Hales (“That Ye May Be the Children of Light”. Fireside address given at Brigham Young University on 3 November 1996.)
“Another type of comforting revelation is the assurance received that a sin has been forgiven. After praying fervently for an entire day and night, a Book of Mormon prophet recorded that he heard a voice, which said, ‘Thy sins are forgiven thee, and thou shalt be blessed.’ ‘Therefore,’ Enos wrote, ‘my guilt was swept away’ (Enos 1:5–6; also see D&C 61:2). This assurance, which comes when a person has completed all the steps of repentance, gives assurance that the price has been paid, that God has heard the repentant sinner, and that his or her sins are forgiven.” – Dallin H. Oaks (“Revelation”. Devotional address was given at Brigham Young University on 29 September 1981.)
Grace and peace in Christ, who justifies the ungodly like me by faith (Romans 4:4-8),
Aaron
Satanic suckerpunch. I like the phraseology. What I get out of comparing those two quotes is that because repentance is a difficult process, people who have sinned (all of us) will find it hard to even begin the process. Once Satan has got us to sin, we’re likely to remain sinners because we don’t want to do what it takes to achieve forgiveness.
Although full and total forgiveness is available to us, we don’t reach for it because we’re lazy whiners. That’s what I read. Yeah, Satanic suckerpunch it is.