Why Our Family Left The Mormon Church

Posted on April 12, 2012 by Aaron Shafovaloff

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63 Responses to Why Our Family Left The Mormon Church

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  1. Kate says:
    April 19, 2012 at 9:36 am

    Ralph,
    I have one question for you…..”Why use the Bible at all?” I’ve noticed that when you can’t really answer something effectively, you throw the Bible under the bus. All of the Mormons who post here seem to do that. I don’t know you, but I’m skeptical about the lady in Finland. I can’t see a Christian denying that Christ is God. Especially to a couple of kids on a Mormon mission.

  2. falcon says:
    April 19, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    Kate,
    I’ll save you some time and effort. I’ve gone back and forth with Ralph for a couple of years and Ralph has never met an atheist he doesn’t like, especially if he can find a means of trashing the Bible in order to try and prove something………..I guess it’s the five points of the Mormon testimony. Mormons and atheists have a great deal in common when it comes to Biblical Christianity.
    I’ll clue you in that right on this forum, Ralph told me he’d kill or steal if ordered to do so by the Mormon prophet. Now does that give any insight into the true believing Mormon Ralph?
    A zealot like that isn’t really someone you’re going to have a meaningful exchange with.
    Ralph does seem like a decent sort I guess unless the prophet told him to kill you or steal from you.

  3. Rick B says:
    April 19, 2012 at 4:28 pm

    Ralph,
    Me and many other Christians keep saying their is zero evidence for the BoM. Then you guys trash the Bible and claim their is no archeology to prove the Bible.

    So How about this. The Battle at the hill cumorh claims to have been so massive two million plus people died. We cannot find even a single coin proving the battle happened. Things are so bad for this that the battle field spot has been moved many times to try and help the cause.

    Yet in the Bible we read about Paul being ship wrecked and before he was ship wrecked the ship dropped two anchors. Well guess what Ralph and Fred? Two guys used the Bible and read the account and the depth given as to where the two anchors were dropped. Guess what? They found the two anchors and gave them to the island of Malta as a gift. Here is a link to one article on this and you can google it for more info.

    http://www.khouse.org/articles/2002/413/

    So please give serious thought to your eternity before you trust some book of fiction and toss the word of God under the bus when the word of God stands proven and JS word of fiction is still that.

  4. Kate says:
    April 20, 2012 at 10:42 am

    “Ralph told me he’d kill or steal if ordered to do so by the Mormon prophet. Now does that give any insight into the true believing Mormon Ralph?”

    Oh I know most Mormons would steal or kill if the prophet told them to. The sad part about this is the prophet would leave him high and dry after he told him to do it. Think Mountain Meadows. I’ve said before that non active family members have said if Romney gets into office, the LDS church will be running this country. Romney would do whatever his prophet tells him to do, just like Ralph and most Mormons I know. Now that’s scary.

  5. Rick B says:
    April 20, 2012 at 9:01 pm

    Forget where Wadlo? Where Ralph? I gave evidence and asked for some from him, now he is missing. what up?

  6. Ralph says:
    April 21, 2012 at 6:28 pm

    RickB,

    I am at the tail-end of 2 weeks of school holidays and I have been spending my precious time with my family out and about.

    Firstly, do you know what historical fiction means? It means that most of what you read can be verified from history and archeaology but the story revolves around fictional characters and/or events. So yes, there are many things from the Bible that can be verified. But from a skeptics’ point of view (I need to take these views for research so it’s easy for me), OK, four anchors have been found where some people postulated they should have been, and they match the type of anchor used back in the days of the story. Many ships were out and about in those days, can it be proven without a doubt that these four were from that ship? Can it be proven that the four anchors were from the same ship or from multiple ships from different times? Can the rest of the story be verified that Paul was bitten by a viper and survived without getting sick or any other malady? These are questions that need to be answered before anyone can say without any doubt that that story is historically correct. But just to let you know, I do believe the story because I believe the Bible.

    But what about my other ‘stories’? Sodom and Gommorah, and Jerusalem being an Empire in the Bible but archaeological and historical evidence only shows it was a city kingdom?

  7. Ralph says:
    April 21, 2012 at 6:28 pm

    RickB,
    You quoted me and said –

    (me) “there are many contradictions and mistakes in the Bible including at least 3 insertions that we know of.
    (you) Name them, Chapter and verse. Back it up instead of just saying it.”

    We have had a number of discussion and proof given in the past about this on MC. even Aaron did a blog about one of the most famous insertions, the Johannine Comma, found in 1 John 5:7. The oldest manuscripts that have been found of this book do not have this verse in it. Because of this, many of the new editions of the Bible either don’t include this verse, or leave it in but high light it somehow and state in footnotes that it is most likely an addition into the text of the Bible and not in the original manuscript.

    The next is found in John 8:1-11 about the adulterous woman. Again, in the earliest manuscripts found, this story is not written in them, although this one is still being debated.

    Then Mark 16:9-20 has been verified to be an insertion – and this is used by many LDS to prove that baptism is needed for salvation, so that blows their argument out of the water.

    Another one that is being strongly debated is found in 1 Cor 14:34-35 in the KJV, but can be found in the same chapter, but at verse 41-42, while some others omit them all together. It is debated whether this was an insertion by Paul, himself at a later date to clarify what he was thinking, or a contemporary of Paul, or if it as in the original letter written by Paul.

    You can google these for more information.

  8. Ralph says:
    April 21, 2012 at 6:30 pm

    Kate,

    You don’t have to believe me if you don’t want to. I’m a big boy, I can handle skeptics like you. But I am telling the truth.

    As far as Mitt Romney becoming presidentt and the LDS church using him as a surrogate ruler – ha ha ha; don’t make me laugh. There are many checks in place to stop that from happening. For that to happen all of the rest of that party’s representatives would have to be LDS. Since they aren’t, if he tries to do something because of ‘pressure’ from the LDS authorities, they would be able to block it in parliament. My thoughts are that Mitt Romney would be left alone by the leaders of the church and that he will have to make many decisions that may go against LDS teachings but be allowed to do it by the LDS leadership without jeopardising his membership as he is in a major public position.

    Yes falcon,

    But I will keep adding – I will do what ever my God wants me to do – would you? And I believe that God speaks through His prophet on this earth. So if the prophet came to me personally, not over the phone or TV or letter, but personally and told me that God wanted me to do something, anything, I would do it. Just like when Moses and Samuel the OT prophets told the Israelites to commit genocide and kill every man, woman AND CHILD in different villages. Samuel, himself, slit the throat of an unarmed and bound prisoner while he was prophet under the command of God. Elijah commanded Israel to kill around 400 priests who were all unarmed. So my belief has precedence in the Bible.

  9. grindael says:
    April 22, 2012 at 12:10 am

    Next, we’ll have Mormons saying that if you can’t verify that someone stubbed their toe on a given day at a certain time, the Bible can’t be verified as an Historical Document. LOL. Keep em’ coming Ralph. You are too funny.

    Where in the Bible is Jerusalem (or Israel for that matter) ever called an “Empire”? I don’t recall ever reading that. Can you verify?

    Your “precedent” was under the rule of a theocratic government that no longer was in effect after the time of Christ. That is the problem with Mormonism. They try to amalgamate the Old Covenant with the New, and it can’t be done. There is no “precedent” under the New Covenant for such behavior. Bad, bad example, and the mark of a cult.

  10. Rick B says:
    April 22, 2012 at 9:17 am

    Ralph,
    When you said this verse was added to the Bible at a later time,

    Then Mark 16:9-20 has been verified to be an insertion – and this is used by many LDS to prove that baptism is needed for salvation, so that blows their argument out of the water.

    I honestly dont know if it was added or not, but this does not blow anything out of the water as you say.

    Just because Mormons teach Baptism and use one verse from the Bible does not prove Mormonism to be true. Their are overwhelming problems that prove Mormonism false. Like I said, two guys use the Bible and find Pauls shipwrecked anchors from roughly 2000 years ago. Yet the battle at Cumorh with over two million dead and you cannot find a single coin. Then the battle field has been moved many times.

    Again, I have been to Israel, and will be going again, I ate the food, spoke with the people, walked the city streets and country hills, took pictures as evidence and yet you or no other mormon can say this about the BoM and it’s places.

    Then as I have said before, You cannot take one verse and say, see this proves you must be baptized when The Bible tells us that Jesus did not baptize anyone, the apostle Paul said Jesus did not send Him to Baptize anyone, and he could not tell you how many people if any at all he baptized. If it really is that important, then off all people you would think Jesus would have done it, not have it say, He did not. Or Paul mention that it was required, not say, I was not sent to baptize, but then go on to say, Believe and you will be saved.

  11. Kate says:
    April 22, 2012 at 10:43 am

    Ralph,
    You don’t live in the States and we don’t have a “parliament.” Ever heard of an executive order? I live in the State of Utah and I’m telling you that this State is all abuzz talking about the white horse prophecy. There’s more to it than you think.

  12. Kate says:
    April 22, 2012 at 10:59 am

    Ralph,
    You told falcon that you would kill or whatever if the prophet told you to. Why do you think that Romney wouldn’t do the same? If his prophet told him to write an executive order for something, do you think he wouldn’t do it? If his prophet told him to veto something that Congress was trying to pass, do you think he wouldn’t veto it? Why do you think that Romney would go against his LDS doctrines and his prophet just because he’s in public position? I could actually see your leadership using this to their advantage. So do a lot of Americans.

  13. Rick B says:
    April 22, 2012 at 10:12 pm

    Ralph,
    You mentioned the the Johannine Comma. Regardless of whether this verse was added or has always been their, how exactly is it a contradiction? A contradiction would be like God saying He is the only God and knows of no other Gods, but then later saying other Gods do exist and He and these other Gods created the world. That by the way is found in the PofGRP. God says He is the only God and no other Gods exist. But then God says, He and these other Gods created the Heavens and the earth.

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