Can you guess where this is from? (Updated)

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We asked folks to guess what this is and where exactly it is from, offering a free DVD copy of The Gospel of John to the first non-evangelical who guessed correctly. After two days of waiting for people to guess, Peter Ould, our evangelical friend in Christ from the UK gave the answer: The above picture was taken in the children’s section of the LDS museum in downtown Salt Lake City. It is, as someone correctly guessed, a representation of what is on the Nauvoo temple. As I’m sure some Mormons want this conversation to cover historic iconography and symbolism, let me just say this: I know you can find some historic positive uses of the pentagram. I just find it disconcerting 1) that the symbol is, like many other things about the temple, so obviously of Smith’s masonic influence, and 2) that Mormons feel so much more comfortable with the pentagram than they do the symbol of the cross.

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Here are some other pictures I took at the museum:

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40 Responses to Can you guess where this is from? (Updated)

  1. Anubis says:

    Does an ex-mormon get to vote?

  2. pould says:


  3. Anubis, sure, as long as you’re not an evangelical Christian 🙂

    Peter, you’re hilarious!

  4. pould says:

    Yeah, but do I get to tell everybody? Vote now!!! Ignore the facist controlling Wasatch based MRM flunky and tell him that YOU want a Englishman to tell you what it is!!! Do it now!!

  5. Peter, it’s not secret, but it is sacred. So don’t tell anyone!

  6. Sharon Lindbloom says:

    Peter, are you so desperate for the DVD?

    It is good to “see” you, brother. I have missed you when you’ve visited this side of the pond, being far removed from the parts of this vast country you have explored. Perhaps on your next visit you would consider skipping BYU for an exciting trip to the Mall of America. ;>)

  7. pould says:


  8. Anubis says:

    Ok since I am technically just a “Christian” not an Evangelical Christian. I’ll throw out a few questions in hopes of a hint for someone else.

    Does it reside in Nauvoo, IL in a big white super secret (*cough* “sacred”) building?

  9. pould says:


  10. Anubis says:

    Peter, I can’t hardly hear what you are saying. Are the hands raised in the air symbolic of some kind of “true order” of something? And the moving your hand from right to left across your neck some kind of “token or sign” of something?

    I guessing from what you said that this image maybe in some type of visitor center….???

  11. Peter, you have given Bill and I some good belly laughs today!

    Anubis, I won’t give “hot” or “cold” indications, but as soon as someone guesses correctly (and when I see that they’ve posted it) I’ll affirm it!

    Grace and peace,


  12. Wow, no more guesses? Tomorrow morning I’ll give a hint?

    Trust me, you guys want this Gospel of John, DVD… it’s great!

  13. Ralph says:

    I’ll hazard a guess. It looks like its from a recently new building and since Bill and others have been to Rexburg Temple opening I think thats where its from – the Rexburg temple.

  14. pould says:

    I know where it is. I know where it is!!!!

  15. Okay, here’s the only hint I’ll give:

    It is found within Salt Lake City, but it represents something outside of Salt Lake City.

  16. pould says:

    Can I put them all out of their misery?

  17. pould says:


  18. Hehe. 😀

    Peter, you can be first to disclose the answer Friday, at 12:00am MST!

  19. Ralph says:

    Not knowing much about SLC (I did visit Provo MTC to learn Finnish before my mission almost 20 years ago but did not visit SLC), after your hint my next guess would be its a scale model of the new Nauvoo Temple. As for where, I think it’s most likely in the SLC Temple Visitor Centre or in the foyer of the new conference building (if it has one), or in the church administration building opposite the SLC Temple. But again, having not visited there I am only guessing about location.

  20. soulvader says:

    It’s from my house!

  21. pould says:


  22. Danielle says:

    Good Morning Everyone!! This is very entertaining. When I see stars like this……. I don’t know why, but I think of a pagan religion. It is in lots of church’s right?

    I love watching the videos.


  23. Danielle says:


    I should have watched pould’s last video before I posted my last comment. DUH ME!!


  24. pould says:


  25. pould says:


  26. Chuck, you’re free to link to Mormon apologetic articles as long as you provide a summary of the article in your own words.

  27. chuck5000 says:

    I apologize for not providing the summary. I must admit I didn’t read the rules for posting links.

    The article found at talks about inverted starts on the temples. It discusses the use of these inverted stars within the cultural context of the early saints and how they were not the only ones who uses them, but that they were “utilized in American Society without any association with the occult or with Satan.” I goes on to show many of the usages of the inverted star.

    It also discusses the fact that the inverted star had sacred meaning among the ancient Christians. It was only later in history (mid 1800s) when a defrocked monk made reference to the inverted star that it started to be associated with the occult. But it originally had no demonic meaning.

    As for the cross, we do not use it as a symbol because we celebrate the life of Christ, not his death. This article is an explanation of such. It provides insight as to why we do not use the cross as the symbol of our religion. Our message is one of the living Christ who emerged from the tomb. It also explains that we do not criticize others for wearing or using the cross in their religions. For as the 11th Article of faith says, “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.”

  28. It seems like an implicit insult to Christianity when Mormonism explains its rejection of the usage of the symbol of the cross with, “Our message and focus is on the life of Christ.” It implies that those who do use the symbol don’t have any substantial focus on the life and resurrection of Christ. It implies that there is some sort of mutually exclusivity between focusing on his death and then on his life.

  29. Arthur Sido says:


    “As for the cross, we do not use it as a symbol because we celebrate the life of Christ, not his death.”

    Our focus as Christians, like that of Paul, is on Christ and Him crucified. It is silly to say that you focus on the living Christ because the culmination of His earthly ministry was on the cross and the empty tomb. Without the cross where He bore in my place the penalty of sin and the wrath of the Father than I deserved, there is no empty tomb. There is no resurrection and there is no church. Without the cross, no one is saved. The cross represents the cost in His blood for my salvation. We don’t revere the cross, but we worship the One who hung on the cross as propitiation.

    When we are first investigating mormonism, one of the missionaries (Henk Fisher) likened it to someone shooting our eldest daughter and then hanging the gun on the wall. I guess it is wrong to have a cross on the wall, but fine to have pictures of temples, of “prophets” and a blue eyed Jesus.

  30. amanda says:


    1) Who said we find great significance in the pentagram?? It’s a symbol that is in the children’s museum…we don’t sell them as necklaces and wave them up in the air like Christians’ do crosses. Symbols are only important for teaching. We don’t worship symbols. So who cares if that symbol is in a museum…?

    2) What exactly are LDS supposed to apologize for again? I guess I missed the point of this one…??

    By the way, I missed you guys, I’ve had bronchitis for a week and I’m finally able to break away from the tissues. I know many of you have missed my words of wisdom- I will try to post more of them soon but you have to make these posts a little more compelling 🙂

  31. amanda says:

    Speaking of symbols…

    Aaron, it’s actually quite sad to see your attempts at trying to scare people about what we do in the temple. Again, symbols are not for the weak-minded. They are used for teaching principles and doctrines. Christ used symbols through parable. I would think you would appreciate symbolism, being a writer yourself.

    But getting down to the heart of the matter, this isn’t about what LDS believe- this is about a forum where you, Aaron, can sit on your high-horse and pretend to know more about God than we do. That suits your ego- but it doesn’t suit you as a Christian. A real Christian man would not even attempt to poke fun at what others hold sacred. What kind of fellowship is that??? The more you post, the more you spit venom- the less you resemble anything Christian.

    And I don’t care if you delete, or “trim” this- I only desired you to read it.

  32. falcon says:

    The pentagram makes perfect sense within the context of Mormonism. I heard a guy on the radio (forget his name) who is a Mormon and has written a “Mormanism for Dummies” book. In regards to the question about Masonic rituals being incorporated into Mormon temple rites, he said that Mormonism borrowed wisdom and practice from all religious traditions including the secret society of Free Masonry. So if something is borrowed from what we as Christians would see as occultic, it makes sense in the blurring of the spirtitual lines within the Mormon system. Joseph Smith was known to be a practioner of folk magic. The spiritual experiences Mormons claim are indeed spiritual in nature. The use of the pentagram and Masonic rites gives a clue as to the source of those experiences. This is indeed a spiritual battle.

  33. amanda says:

    Am I in the twilight zone?

    The thing that defeats this secretive ritualistic crap that evangelicals spew is that the temple is for ANYONE who wishes to attend. Yes, you have to want to be there…but the truth is that the Lord would have everyone enter into its’ walls and worship Him. Nothing secretive about that…its’ sacred nature, however, is something we take very seriously—this is why we don’t let people like Aaron Shaffavovvovloff enter in to take pictures and flail his arms around like a monkey attempting to poke fun like a 3rd grader. Those are things that are simply inappropriate for the House of God.

    And Aaron, if you delete that last section, which was about as immature as YOUR video post- then I’ll know you are a hypocrite.

  34. jer1414 says:

    Falcon is right, this is a spiritual battle, for “We destroy arguments and every proud obstacle raised up against the knowledge of God…” (2 Cor. 10:4-5) and “it is shameful even to mention what such people do secretly; but everything exposed by the light becomes visible” Eph. 5:12 – 13)

    Amanda said “A real Christian man would not even attempt to poke fun at what others hold sacred.” It’s hard to take this comment seriously based on 1 Nephi 14:10, JoD 5:73, 8:171, 8:199, 6:25, 6:167, and myriads of other examples… so based on this comment, Mormon founding fathers aren’t “real Christian men”.

  35. amanda says:

    Aaron, (FYI-the video post I referred to above was not the most recent of your video posts)

    Yes, this subject has implied several times that mormons have this secretive tie to the pentagram (twilight zone stuff)…it’s just a symbol- that’s all. And your attempt at trying to make this a mormon mystery is laughable at best.

    Yes, it’s on the temple, AND? I just noted above that we use symbols for teaching- Again, I’m not sure what you expect me to apologize for–???

    Its’ not like the free masons just made stuff up- they took a lot of their symbols and traditions from older traditions. The restoration of truth might also resemble other traditions that have taken from the original. That’s why we resemble a lot of evangelical Christianity- because they took a lot from the original- The original has been restored, however.

    I apologize for not watching the rest of your video- the website is not working properly (or my computer)- and it’s taking forever. Maybe respond with text this time.


    Mormon founding fathers aren’t “real Christian men”. ???

    Secretive? what exactly is secretive?? Doesn’t matter how many times these ridiculous sentiments are addressed, you continue to spew them.

    I think these comments fall under the “I have no basis for making such claims” category. But thanks for playing.

  36. falcon says:

    Why do Christians view Mormonism as having occultic features? Mormons embrace the pentagram, an occult symbol, but reject the cross, the symbol of our atonement. Mormons practice temple rituals that come directly from Free Masonry, which many Christians view as occultic. Mormonism was established by a man that claimed to be a prophet…..who was known to practice folk magic using a seer stone to hunt for buried treasure. This prophet preached a different god, one who progressed to being a god from being a man. Thus taking his followers away from the God of the Bible to a different god. This is spiritual warfare. What Mormons do and what they experience comes from the side of the battle opposite of Yahweh the one, only and true God. The spiritual armies are well defined, a choice has to be made as to who we will follow.

  37. Arthur Sido says:


    Thanks to your prompting I finally got around to finishing up and posting our testimony. Moderators, with your permission, I am providing the link to our testimony of God’s saving grace in leaving mormonism. You can read it here.

  38. jer1414 says:

    Yes and Amen to what Falcon says above.

    Amanda, you said “A real Christian man would not even attempt to poke fun at what others hold sacred.”

    Read 1 Nephi 14:10 (whore of all the earth), Journal of Discourse 5:73(Christian world was grovelling in darkness), 8:171(Christian world, so-called, are heathens ), 8:199(a more ignorant people never lived), 6:25(Christians ignorant), 6:167 (the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than Christianity)for just a few of the Mormon comments that have “poked fun of” something I hold sacred.

    Remember, you said “A real Christian man would not even attempt to poke fun at what others hold sacred.”

    Amanda, my question to you is, can we apply your comment to Mormons?

  39. falcon says:

    I would highly recommed Arthur’s testimony. It’s worth reading and considering. The part that I found most interesting was that his friends and associates within Mormonism couldn’t accept the fact that he could leave because he concluded that the sect did not have the restored gospel. It is truly a spiritual battle ground with deception as the main tactic.

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