The Bible vs. The Book of Mormon?
An Evangelical – LDS DebateChrist Presbyterian Church invites you to join us for a debate on whether the LDS scriptures accord with the Bible. Our participants will be Jason Wallace and Martin Tanner. Mr. Wallace is pastor of Christ Presbyterian Church in Salt Lake City. Dr. Tanner is an LDS apologist who has contributed to the FARMS Review of Books and The Encyclopedia of Mormonism. He hosts KSL Radio’s Religion Today.
Location: University of Utah
University of Utah, Orson Spencer Hall Auditorium
Friday, November 7, 2008, 7:00 p.m.
Admission: FreeFor more information, call (801) 969-7948 or check out www.christpres.net.
Would anyone like to join me in attending?
can you some how post the debate here for us to read/listen to? thanks, rick b
streaming video would be even better!
This is off topic since apparently this topic hasn’t been blogged about…astonishing:
Why aren’t you guys taking advantage of all the negative press against the mormons? Because you support their cause in Prop 8, right? Then why is this not mentioned on your blog? This is BIG news. Or is your creed to only point out our differences? A lot could be gained about this important cause if we were able to come together rather than separate ourselves. It’s time you recognized the REAL assault on Christianity and the gospel of Jesus Christ. Bickering amongst ourselves is not what Christ wanted.
So we can argue silly talking points of the past, or we can see that if someone walks like a duck, looks like a duck– it must be a duck. The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints are Christians in theology…oftentimes lacking in practice (you might say it is the opposite), however, we aspire to do His will. Let us Christians Unite, not divide. We need to stand strong against the influence of the devil that we see all around us. Seek not to destroy those who seek His will. Yes, we disagree on the finer points. The meat of our desires is the same. We all seek Christ’s atonement and His will.
The devil is cunning and would have Christs’ followers contend with each other, because if he can distract us from what is important, then his influence can and will grow. Let us not be distracted! Let us all stand as a witness for Him in these last days. We have an extraordinary responsibility! We can do better.
http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/news-releases-stories/catholic-bishop-decries-religious-bigotry-against-mormons
This is a great example of my point. I think we would all do better to follow this Catholic Bishop’s example 🙂
I went to the debate, saw Aaron there (you took off without telling me where to meet for the late night snack!) and enjoyed the debate.
I thought the discussion was extremely polite, and both men were well versed in what they wanted to present. I would have liked it to have been more moderated, however, as it really had very little to do with the Bible vs. the Book of Mormon, but instead was really an attack and defense of LDS beliefs in general, with maybe 10-20 minutes of the two hours actually contrasting points of the two books.
I think this is one of the critical short-comings of a “debate” format, as we also saw during the recent presidential debates: The debaters can run with a topic however they want, even if not particularly topical. I much prefer a conversational approach allowing a moderator to be pointed enough to say things like “that doesn’t really address the question”, or “X is what I think they want to here you discuss, not “Y”, can you respond to that a little more precisely?”
They posed questions ranging from “Can you name a Church Father who taught God the Father was an exalted man?”, which was not topical, to a long discussion of changes to the text of English translations of the Bible, which likewise seemed a little misplaced because they did not tie together how this was a Bible vs. BoM kind of issue.
My only specific criticism of Jason Wallace was his apparently confused position on the inerrancy of the Bible and how the LDS belief in the Bible “as translated correctly” was somehow denigrating to the Bible, especially in light of his denunciation of the Westcott Hort Greek text (which the RSV is based upon), when he goes on to acknowledge there are problems in the Textus Receptus, used in the KJV. He noted, as an example, the text at 1John 5:7-8 WAS altered, and not original to the Bible. I of course agree with him, but his position is then similar to LDS views of the caution necessary in receiving the Bible.
No way, is that Amanda from long ago? if so, welcome back! I guess Mormon Coffee IS addicting eh?
Our gospels are entirely different, especially on the bigger points.
Answer me this –
If I came up with a religion with a “new” book testifying of Jesus, but found in that book and from teachings from my leadership were to say that all modern Christianity has it wrong (lump mormons in with that if you want) and that we have the restoration and we teach that Jesus Christ IS Satan and that we believe that God the father will talk Christ to his senses in the final days to redeem all of mankind. AND if I got millions to believe such heresy and lies, would you want to hold hands and worship Christ with me and my followers when obviously we hold to untrue doctrine?
Yeah, I didn’t think so..
It IS biblical to contend for the faith. If you have issues with that, perhaps you should take it up with the apostle Paul. What we say will most likely be perceived as an “attack” from your point of view, but hey, I’m sure the people that Jesus and the apostles rebuked had the same point of view as you. No one wants to be told they are wrong.
The “everybody be nice and lets just accept everything and just focus on what we DO agree upon” is something the homosexual community is saying.. and now, you are saying the same thing about Mormonism and Christianity.
“all modern Christianity has it wrong”
I must stop you here because I am not familiar with anyone ever stating that effectually all pre-restoration Christianity is wrong. A restoration means that it is restored to its original…to the Saviors entire and whole gospel. Interpretations of his gospel after his crucifixion are extremely diverse and completely contradictory. Even christian denominations before the “restoration” were arguing amongst themselves about doctrine, and today still do. Hence Joseph Smiths initial interest and desire to know where to find HIS truth. Your example doesn’t render the restoration a farce…because quite simply we do not teach those things. I found it ineffective, at best. (Unless I’m missing something?) Obviously if untruth was being taught, then of course one should not believe or follow. This isn’t a matter of opinion or perspective, however. The only opinion and perspective that matters is the Savior since it is HIS gospel we claim to seek.
You completely misunderstand me. My apologies. When I said contend, I meant contention. Of course we contend FOR the faith. Not anti-other faiths. This includes the gay community. Even prop 8 itself does not mention anything against gays…it only supports an important eternal truth that we espouse (no pun intended)- marriage is between a man and a woman.
Christ is the perfect example, right?…You have charity for all human beings and speak plain truths but mostly you love and show by example who you are and what you stand for- this site is mostly designed to tell mormons they don’t belong to the club of “Christianity” as if they owned His trademark.
Amanda wrote: Of course we contend FOR the faith. Not anti-other faiths.
First welcome back to the blog. I have to ask you though what you think Paul meant when he penned the following words. “For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ.” 2 Corinthians 10:3-6
Amanda wrote: Christ is the perfect example, right?…You have charity for all human beings and speak plain truths but mostly you love and show by example who you are and what you stand for- this site is mostly designed to tell mormons they don’t belong to the club of “Christianity” as if they owned His trademark.
If Christ is our example then ought we follow his example, and teach those who are in error of this, even though they “know” they are right? (Matt 7:21-23) Isn’t this what Jesus did? Was He simply being pro-proper use of the temple rather than anti-misuse of it when He made a whip and drove the money changers from the temple? (John 2:13ff) I submit that Jesus is very intolerant as we see in the following passages (Matt 10:34ff, Matt 23, Mark 10:17ff, Mark 11:15ff, Luke 11:37-12:3, John 6, 8, 10).
Lautensack
Funny thing about anti-(Name your group). They like to include things which don’t count. For example, Christ could not be “anti-Jewish” since that was the faith he was actually promoting. He was “anti-Jewish-Hypocrites” to try to correct the faith. But that is correcting the Faith he belonged to. He never went to the Romans and threw their pagan coins at them, or cursed the non-Jews in the land, like the Samaritans. He did, however, instruct the Apostles to go and teach the things he taught. Paul mentions he taught nothing but Christ. Which is why I find attacks against any other faith definitionally unChristian. Christ never did it.
Unless, of course, you non-LDS are in fact acknowledging we Mormons are Christian, at which point you would just be trying to correct our non-essential doctrinal errors.
If the Son is Jehovah, then we have a whole Bible of examples of the Son engaging in religious criticism.
If Mormons believe they are inside Christianity, then criticizing evangelicals for criticizing Christians (since Christians should supposedly only criticize insiders) seems odd. Do you want to consider yourselves insiders or not? You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
If “teaching nothing but Christ” includes the letter to the Galatians, then an theological attack on Judaizers is part of teaching Christ.
People should just stop whiiiiiiiiiining about religious criticism and stick to the issues. The whining reminds me of my two-year-old when his Barney video is over.
Well I see we’re back to religion 101. Ask any Mormon if evangelical, fundamentalist, Biblical, maninstream (pick any or all) Christianity are the same as Mormonism. What’s the answer a Mormon will give? I’ll try my impression of a Mormon and answer, No they are not Mormonism…..not even close. Ask a Christian the same question about whether or not Mormonism is Christianity. Answer? No…..again.
This is all pretty easy. We don’t need to go any further than the doctrine of the nature of God. Christians and Mormons don’t acknowledge the same God. Christianity flows from the Jewish religion. Ask an orthodox or reformed Jew to describe God’s nature. It won’t match the Mormon God. So, if Mormons want to call themselves Christians, that’s their perogative, I guess. However it doesn’t meet the standard of that of Christianity. So Christians don’t recognize Mormons as part of the Christian family. Why should that be a big deal for Mormons? They can call themselves anything they want, even Hindus. Come to think of it, the Mormon concept of the nature of God is closer to that of that religion than Christianity any way. If two religious groups do not believe the same thing regarding the nature of God, they are not the same.