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I don’t have anything deep to say; just that it was a real surprise to see Kirk Cameron on there!
I liked the video. From my knowledge they had all their facts straight about Mormonism..
One thing that gets me is..
My wife had left the Mormon Church almost a year ago and so this got me thinking about the mormon doctrine on “sons of perdition” going to outer darkness..
So.. according to Mormonism.. Hitler will be going to the lowest level of Heaven, and my wife gets to be with Satan.. Thanks Joseph Smith, that doesnt sound backwards at all..
Pretty smart way to keep people in the LDS church.. Unbelievable how tight of a strangle hold the LDS church has on its people with programs like that…
I agree with Jeffrey. The videos seemed very informative and accurate. They did not address baptisms of the dead, which is why Hitler gets to be in the low heaven. LDS does not respect the wishes or religion of anyone. The story of how Holocaust survivors were baptized by proxy is sickening. My own parents were baptized by proxy by my brother even though my mother was very outspoken against Mormonism. Not that it really matters; my parents were Christian. But as one Jewish man put it, 100 years from now we don’t want the names of our relatives to be found in LDS records.
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I just love how some people decide that they will interpret the LDS beliefs differenty to what they really mean, even after they have been told.
Only those who deny/blaspheme against the Holy Ghost (note NOT God nor Jesus Christ but the Holy Ghost) will go to outer darkness – this is the ONLY sin that we are told in the Bible, BoM and D&C that cannot receive forgiveness from God, not now, not ever. Now unless your wife admits that she had a really close ‘relationship’ with and witness from the Holy Ghost, then she is not destined for outer darkness. Most who will go there will be those who have been in high authoritive positions, eg Quorum of 70s and above and most will be from the true church fron this age and the past – but there will be some who were not members of the true church. I am not saying that all from those positions will go to outer darkness if they fall away from the church. It is those who have that strong witness that then turn completely away to actually fight against the church and their testimony. Most general members do have a relationship with the Holy Ghost and have received a testimony from it, but these expereinces are not as strong or ‘binding’ as someone from an authorities position. Since I am not going to be the final judge, Jesus will be, I can only speculate, but I believe that your wife, if she still believes in Jesus, will achieve the middle degree of glory (I get the terrestrial and tellestial mixed but its the one inbetween the lowest and CK.)
If you read all the comments from that past blog subject you were referring back to, you will find that nowhere does anyone, except non-LDS, state that these people will be on the LDS church records – in fact we all said that they will NEVER be on the LDS church records, and NEVER be considered as LDS. The only time that the baptism for the dead comes into play is at the final judgement where Jesus will give them the opportunity to accept or reject the baptism.
As far as Hitler goes, Jesus is the final judge and anyone saying where another person will end up after that day is only giving their opinion. Yes we are given a description of the types of people that will enter those kingdoms, but we are not told who. That is up to Jesus, not us. That Hitler will end up in the lowest degree of glory makes logical sense when reading through and understanding the LDS beliefs, but that is ONLY speculation.
So I go to LDS.org, click on FamilySearch.org, type in my mothers name or my fathers name, and I will find them listed. Their date of birth, date of death, their spouse. And at the bottom of the page it says: “An official Web site of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”
I can find all my deceased immediate relatives listed there. Okay, so this doesn’t mean they are LDS members. And maybe the site pretends to be just a place to organize your family tree. But my name is not there so I think it’s safe to say that my brother has baptized by proxy members of my family who were very outspoken against LDS.
Don’t tell me it’s done out of love. I believe it is done out or arrogance, that LDS thinks they are the only true church.
You say: “…outer darkness. Most who will go there will be those who have been in high authoritive positions” What is spiritual or holy about these stories Joseph Smith has made up. Can’t you see that as a boldface cult tactic to keep you all up in LDS?
Read the Bible for yourself. I’ll say that 1000 times. Just read it for yourself.
I think you meant your comments for jeffery b.
I was used to writing to you on the other site – those comments were for Jeffrey B.
I can go to the official Church of England parishes in England and get my family tree especially marriage, christening and death/burial dates. I know some of them were not Anglican they just got married in or burried by the church because of family pressures, etc but its official Anglican registers and an official Anglican church. It does not matter that their name is on a website for family history search – it is not the church records – so they are not considered LDS members. As far as your brother doing temple work for your parents – that’s between you and him. Also, if you want your name to be on that site with your other relatives you can put your name there when ever you want or get your brother to do it.
As far as the LDS church being arrogant in thinking that are the only true church – the same can be said about the Christian community saying that the only way to heaven is through their systems of belief in Jesus. That cuts out over half the people of the world and many other religious systems. So are you arrogant? If you are not then neither am I or the LDS church.
I admit, I have anger issues. I should try an approach from the standpoint of love, not anger.
I wouldn’t say its an anger problem. My wife has mental and emotional issues and I know what anger is – I see nothing of it in your post. Frustration, maybe; a little fear from something you do not understand fully; a feeling of need to try and teach those that you see on the wrong path (especially your brother) the right path according to you. There are probably a few more but you get the drift.
Overall, I found the video amusing. Overstretching the truth in some areas and dramatising others for their own purposes.
Thank you for your kind words. Maybe I’m not overly angry but I still can’t drop the anger I have at the missionaries I invited into my home. For months we visited and not once did they mention that LDS god and Jesus have a very different character and history than the traditional Christian God and Jesus. So, as nice as it is of you to say I don’t have an anger problem, I do have a problem being angry when LDS say they are Christian. I feel it’s misleading. Jews and Muslims don’t put on one front and have a different agenda waiting in the background. Therein lies my frustration I guess.
Also, on a previous blog (the one about stereotyping LDS members, I think), yours was the only comment and you mentioned infants who die during child birth (or something similar), and it broke my heart. I had heard a pastor once describe God’s knowledge of His plan and purpose for our lives. It’s like needlepoint. He sees the top finished product; we see only the underside with all the strings hanging down. I wish I had time to look up supporting Bible verses. I hope God continues to guide you and you continue to seek Him and His Word, not the words of JS.
You and your wife could read the Bible together. You don’t need a prophet to understand it.
I thought this was very honest and appropriate. No matter how they try, the Mormons just can’t get past works-righteousness, and the word grace almost seems to be a bad word for them. They are only interested in enough grace to give them a stage for their good works. How sad.
Peace and Grace!
I have got to admit it was a bit weird seeing Kirk Cameron deal with Mormonism. How would you like to run into Kirk as you are going about errands (or even going to the temple) in downtown Salt Lake?
This is my first time posting on here but something Ralph said I want to quote
“Only those who deny/blaspheme against the Holy Ghost (note NOT God nor Jesus Christ but the Holy Ghost) will go to outer darkness – this is the ONLY sin that we are told in the Bible, BoM and D&C that cannot receive forgiveness from God, not now, not ever.”
if this is true then how do you explain D&C 42:18
“And now, behold, I speak unto the church. Thou shalt not kill; and he that kills shall not have forgiveness in this world, nor in the world to come. “
Good question. I have had a quick look at the reference you gave and the footnotes and they give the answer. I have not looked at other works (eg the Institute manual, or Gospel Doctrine) as I am at work and have only seen your question now. Here are the scriptures given in the footnotes for that verse –
D&C 76:34-37 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come— Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame. These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels— And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power;
D&C 132: 27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be cforgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord.
The verse you quoted is talking to the members of the LDS church – ie those who have received a witness from the Spirit about God and His gospel on this earth. D&C 132 basically is stating that once one has received this witness if they then go and commit murder it is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost that gave that witness. I guess it is referring to the sanctity of life as a gift from God and the witness from the Spirit that has confirmed the truthfulness of God. But that is my guess right now as I do not have time to fully research it here at work.
Basically one is denying/blaspheming Holy Ghost when they go against the witness they have received from it and to commit murder, once one has received a witness of God, is just that – denying your witness.
Ralph commented “…Christian community saying that the only way to heaven is through their systems of belief in Jesus”
Ralph, I understand that this is often how the message is received. Often its the message thats actually transmitted, but I consider that its fatally flawed.
The only way to heaven is not through a system of belief in Jesus, but through the person of Jesus himself. If I put my faith in my faith, then I’ve lost it. If I put my faith in the person of Jesus, then I’ve found it. Its a profound and important difference that’s not always properly expressed by Evangelical Christian teaching.
We Christians have got to be careful that our “systems of belief” actually reflect this difference.
Thanks for your answer. So if I read that right, once you are a member of the LDS church the blood of Jesus Christ is no longer sufficient to cover the sin of murder? Is there a biblical verse that the LDS church goes by to support this claim?
I beg you to research the entirety of the Holy Bible. We know the Bible to be the inerrant word of God and I encourage you to take a look at the teaching God has given us since before the establishment of the Mormon church. I have challenged myself with the same task, to study the Word in its entirety, and though I have not (will never) complete my study (because it is impossible to know our Amazing and Unlimited God fully in this form), I have found both old and new testament teachings that contradict what I have been taught by the LDS church.
In the end, there will be one truth. What if the Bible is right? The Bible says that we only have believe and accept Jesus as our saviour and we will be saved from eternal separation from God. It is found in Romans, look it up when you study the Holy World of God.
Please, I beg you to consider. James states that if we draw close to God, God will draw close to us. Ask God to reveal the truth to you. In my life, I do not have to work to receive salvation. I know that I cannot achieve glory in any form. Though I continue to live my life worthy of my calling (Ephesians), we have a sinful nature,
Thank you for your time,