At NewsOK, November 30, 2009:
Utah’s Spanish Fork has Krishna temple
PROVO, Utah (AP) — Ask any Spanish Fork resident and they will be able to point you in the direction of one of the most unique buildings in town and possibly in the whole state. Perched on a hill just south of downtown Spanish Fork stands the Sri Sri Radha Krishna Temple. Completed in 2001, the Krishna Indian Hindu Temple certainly stands out among the surrounding rural fields.
Hare Krishna is an Eastern religion that worships Krishna, a god who appeared in India about 5,000 years ago. To followers, Krishna exhibited divinity unlike anyone before, during or since his time on earth. Krishna devotees, or Vaishnavas, spend their life studying and serving Krishna. Vaishnavas study a sacred Hindu scripture called the Bhagavad Gita…
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has supported the temple since its inception. In fact, the church gave $25,000 to help build it.
Hmmm. Passionate zeal for exclusive devotion to the true God is demanded throughout the entire Old Testament history of God’s dealings with His covenant people. When He led them into the land of Canaan, a land flowing with milk and honey, God ordered the complete destruction of all the marks of idolatry found in that place. The altars, the sacred pillars, the carved images were to be torn down. “You shall surely destroy all the places where the nations whom you shall dispossess served their gods, on the high mountains and on the hills and under every green tree” (Deuteronomy 12:2). God demanded that His people be holy — set apart — and that they, like Him, not tolerate pagan religion. They were to guard the purity of their worship of the one true God lest the presence of false gods become too great a temptation and compromise that true worship.
Destroying places of false worship is not what God’s people are called to do in this current age of grace. Instead, followers of Christ are instructed to be patient while reasoning with those who are in opposition to the truth, and always be ready with an answer for the hope that is within them. Even so, in the New Testament the Apostle Paul reissues the call for God’s people to be set apart. He argues, “What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion dies a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols?” (2 Corinthians 6:15-16).
A question arose in the New Testament church regarding the eating of meat sacrificed to idols in pagan rituals. Within the context of this discussion Paul asserts that, though an idol is nothing, behind pagan ritual is the reality of Satan’s work. These sacrifices are made to demons and not to God. “I do not want you to be participants with demons,” Paul says. His mandate is that believers flee from idolatry; have nothing to do with paganism (1 Corinthians 10:14-20).
Paul has given followers of Christ a rule to live by which is easily discerned: Whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. All Christian behavior should be for the glory of God and for the salvation of the lost, taking care that nothing is done which would cause anyone to stumble (1 Corinthians 10:31-33).
So I wonder: What would the Apostle Paul have to say about the LDS Church’s large donation toward the building of a temple for the worship of a false god?
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Comments within the parameters of 1 Peter 3:15 are invited.
———————-
I was wondering, at the end of the article, what Jesus would say. How about:
Matthew 7:13-15
“Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”
which, amazingly (?) enough, is followed directly by this statement from Jesus:
“Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.”
Why would Mormonism being trying to help assist others try to go through other gates?
Financing idolatry. I would be livid if a Church I attended gave $25,000 to the local mosque/hindu temple/synagogue etc. to build it. I would no longer be a member of said Church/Denomination. It betrays the basic foundation of Christianity as truth.
Can anyone in Mormonism actually say without a doubt that Krisha isn’t a god? How do we really know that the Bible is true when it claims that there is only one true God (at least that we have to do with)? Do you have access to the original time stamped autographs of every single ancient document? No? Then we can’t say beyond all possible shadow of a doubt that Krishna wasn’t a god, right? So for some people it’s ok to worship him because that’s their truth, and they’ll receive whatever it is that they want to receive, right?
What if the whole Krishna is a god thing is one of the plain and precious truths that was taken out of the Bible by some evil Jewish or apostate Christian guy and Joseph died before he got a revelation on it. We know that there are a lot of other religious books written. Maybe President Monson knows it now and is keeping it under wraps like the whole polygamy thing Joseph did. That’s why the church paid money to have a temple built. One day some LDS guy will see Monson coming out of the Krishna temple and write an email about it and Monson will have his computer and all the servers that distributed it destroyed. Realizing that it is futile to destroy the computer in an information age he’ll issue a new doctrine and covenant. Then all of the GA’s will come out and say, “Yes, worship of Krishna has been an everlasting covenant that ancient mormons practiced, but it was lost due to evil Jewish guys and apostate Christians. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and even Jesus Christ worshiped Krishna.” According to Sub, that’s the whole point of having a living prophet. You can’t prove it’s not true, can you? I mean, can millions of Indians be wrong?
Right near the Koyle Dream Mine!!
liv4j
I have a different take on this. When the church began to expand into other countries (that were non Caucasian) they had a dilemma. The first one was this: How do we account for all the intermarrying? How do we discern who had the blood of Cain and who does not?
The answer would seem simple in the light of ‘modern revelation’. Since the ‘prophets’ of today have a direct link with God, and with the smithian church the only true one (with the priesthood no less) how hard would it be to set apart men who could lay their hands upon a persons head and determine what their lineage is?
Oh, they already do that? With Patriarchal Blessings? Hmmm. Then why could they not do that with ALL applicants to the church? We all know the answer to this and so did the First Presidency. What they did instead was go against all the former prophets and lift the ban on those of the negro race so ALL could receive the Priesthood. Shows you what common sense can do when introduced into the mix.
This has become a pattern in the church today. On Feb 15,1978 – First Presidency letter that Mohammed and Confucius “received a portion of God’s light.”
This is really the key here. The smithians see no other way to perpetuate their gospel on these nations without cozying up to them.
Is it not surprising then to see this come out in 1981: Oct 1,1981 – New York Times reports official announcement that new edition of Book of Mormon changes prophecy that Lamanites will “become white and delightsome.” Instead of continuing original reference to skin color, new edition emphasizes inward spirituality: “become pure and delightsome.”
They were also having problems with women in the ministry & women’s rights, and so this on Oct 2,1988 – Michaelene P. Grassli, general Primary President, is first woman to speak in general conference in 133 years. (cont.)
. It appears that the current ‘prophets’ are radically reversing the traditions and the teachings of the former prophets, because their methods were not working.
They began to realize that the racism & suppression of women had to go. But they have now taken it a step farther, (they must be utilizing that PR firm) and have lowered themselves into actually helping other religions build themselves up to appear to be their friends.
One of these ways (apparently) is to help other religions build temples to false gods. What, to gain political advantage? (I thought God opened the doors to countries for missionary work, not PR tactics to soothe them.)
Mike Wallace did a revealing interview that shows the direction Gordon Hinckley was taking the church in, and Mike Wallace summed it up in these words:
“HE WANTED TO PORTRAY MORMONS AS MAINSTREAM, not extreme, and for that Hinckley had hired a Jewish-owned PUBLIC RELATIONS FIRM.” In a German Interview, when asked about other churches, Hinckley said this “I recognize that every church does good. There isn’t any question in my mind about that. They all do good. “
This is a far cry from Joes statement that all other religions were an “abomination” to God and that all the ministers were “corrupt”, and statements like this from John Taylor: “What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute best.” (John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225)
If even Christians are so ignorant, why in the world are mormons helping the Krishna’s build temples?
Mormons will see this and ask, so what is the problem? The problem is that smith said he restored the church, (and they speak to God) and that because it is supposedly the Lords church, it has a higher standard to be judged by. Would not the Lord have foresaw all this? Then why all the changes? Why the PR firms? Why the need to go more mainstream? This would never have been considered by smith & the early prophets.
Grindael, you’re right. I read your remarks and I think, “So?” What is wrong with reform in the Mormon Church? Don’t you want the Church to become more sympathetic to women, more racially egalitarian, more loving and tolerant toward others? Isn’t this considered positive when it happens in Christian churches?
Try this on: What if the Mormon church, with its continuing revelation, began to change some of its doctrines to agree more with evangelical Christianity? Would you see this as a positive step forward, or would you continue to rail against us and trot out old Brigham Young quotes?
I recently had the “opportunity” to drive by a Mormon temple and as I passed by I noticed a large inscription above the door that said something like “dedicated to God and His holiness”. I reflected on this and thought to myself, “Mormonism isn’t a perfect counterfeit but it is certainly an effective one.” The reason I thought this is because when I see something that announces God and His holiness it generates positive emotions because I know Him, acknowledge Him, worship and adore Him. The problem of course is that when Mormons say “God” and Christians say “God” we’re not talking about the same God/god. So an unsuspecting soul will see “God” and think “God”. In reality what they don’t know is that this Mormon “god” is not “God”.
It not surprising that Mormonism would support another temple dedicated to another god. Why not? They already worship an idol, why not one more. Mormonism is an effective counterfeit because running through the tapestry which is Mormonism, are some threads of “spirituality” which gives it the appearance of being the faith of the Bible when in fact it uses the Bible as a convenient prop to fool the unsuspecting.
Mormons make Mormonism “work” by taking a scissors to the pieces of this jigsaw puzzle of religion and cutting (the pieces) to fit. Because they have accepted this lie as the truth their personal integrity and veracity are sacrificed on the alter of the Mormon idol. So they support a temple built to a foreign god? Why not? That can work. A little snip here and another snip there and poof, it fits!
Back in my days in Catholic school one of the things we memorized was to “know, love and serve God”. Mormons don’t “know” God. The god they love and serve is an idol who is full of false promises that will lead to their eventual spiritual destruction.
O Lord God Almighty, not the God of the philosophers and the wise but the God of the prophets and apostles; and better than all, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, may I express Thee unblamed?
They that know Thee not may call upon Thee as other than Thou art, and so worship not Thee but a creature of their own fancy; therefore enlighten our minds that we may know Thee as Thou art, so that we may perfectly love Thee and worthily praise Thee.
What comes into our minds when we think about God is the most important thing about us. The mightiest thought the mind can entertain is the thought of God. No religion has ever been greater than its idea of God. Always the most revealing thing about a religion is its idea of God.
The person who comes to a right belief about God is relieved of ten thousand temporal problems.
Among the sins to which the human heart is prone, hardly any other is more hateful to God than idolatry, for idolatry is at bottom a libel on His character. The idolatrous heart assumes that God is other than He is-in itself a monstrous sin-and substitutes for the true God one made after its own likeness. A god begotten in the shadows of a fallen heart will quite naturally be no true likeness of the true God.
Wrong ideas about God are not only the fountain from which the polluted waters of idolatry flow; they are themselves idolatrous. The idolater simply imagines things about God and acts as if they were true.
Perverted notions about God soon rot the religion in which they appear. The masses of adherents to a false God come to believe that God is different from what He actually is; and that is heresy of the most insidious and deadly kind.
(attribution: A.W.Tozer)
Do Mormons openly proclaim their “god” to the world? No of course not. They proclaim simply “God” but don’t really explain who that “god” is. To reveal to the world their false god would uncover what Mormons seek to hide.
There isn’t any such thing as “some knowledge and light” when it comes to our beliefs about God. We either get it right or we get it wrong! Anything else is idolatry. God has provided a revelation of Himself in His written Word the Bible and in His Living Word, Jesus Christ. There can be no mistaking who God is. He hasn’t cloaked Himself to such a degree in total mystery so that those He created and loves won’t recognize Him. The question is, will people accept God or create one of their own liking?
The rags to riches story of the Mormon god is attractive to those who through pride and vanity want to believe that they can achieve this status too. What a thrill and an emotional buzz to entertain thoughts of becoming a god. Mormons are quick to point out that they don’t want to displace their god, they just want to become “like” him. What a noble venture and goal! And it sounds so innocent and “good”.
The problem starts at the very onset with the notion that god was once a man. Can we find these concepts clearly taught in God’s holy Word? No! Are these concepts even cloaked in secrecy within the pages of the Bible for only the truly spiritual to discern? No!
Even the religious traditions of early Mormonism point to the One, eternal, everlasting God. Borrowing ideas from other religions and religious movements, Joseph Smith settled on a new notion of God; one in which he himself could become exalted. He proclaimed a new god, a new scripture and declared even God’s holy Word the Bible in error. God’s Church, the mystical Body of Christ, had to also be dispatched because it stood in the way of his personal religious ambitions.
That Mormons would support another temple and another god is not all that surprising. The confused and knotted ball of string that is Mormonism keeps its adherents bound in a tangled web of deceit and human folly.
liv4jc,
I think you make a great argument. Does the Mormon know that Krishna has not become a god? If Krishna is a god, would the god of our world hold it against these Hindus for worshiping a true god? Is this $25,000 donation the first signal of a new revelation coming from the prophet and president? I think that the answer to that question COMPLETELY depends on the American culture and where it heads as far as diversity and a continuing acceptance of a multiplicity of viewpoints as “true” – basically a Hindu point of view. Mormons tend to follow American culture and change their revelations to match the current society (to a point). It will be interesting to watch this man-made religion as the Christian influence on the U.S. continues to fall to see how they combine pluralism with moralism.
bored in vernal,
No matter how much the SLC ‘prophets’ try to sugar-coat it, smithism ‘is what it is’. You missed the point entirely.
There will be no ‘revelations’ bringing smith’s church ‘in line’ with Christianity. They might work within the framework of what they have to hide doctrines that are out of sync with todays world, (as they are) they might use double-speak to try and cover up beliefs that are not at all christian, (as they are) but to change smith’s ‘revelations’ back to an earlier day when his teachings WERE more ‘in line’ with mainstream christianity would be to admit that smith was a false prophet & go down the road of the RLDS Church.
smith himself taught in his church (and it was affirmed by the church) that God was a spirit, Jesus was God made flesh and the Holy Ghost was
the mind of the two. (1835 D&C) He invented the first vision to change this to God & Jesus are immortal men & the HG is a spirit man.
This was to open the door for the temple endowments & polygamy. Notice that you do not practice polygamy but it is still an ‘eternal principle’ & believed. SLC is all about hiding things and obfuscating the truth. That is why it is so important to ‘trot out’ the quotes of your former prophets.
God is the same yesterday, today and forever & not the author of confusion. One look at mormon history & that goes out the window.
Joseph F. Smith had this dilemma and actually was fined over polygamy. He caved. (In public) It was give it up or the church would go down. He must have been very frustrated that God did not come down & defend it & saw it repealed with a one page ‘revelation’.
And the god of the mormons has been strangely silent on all these changes. (Except the ’78 ‘revelation’ on blacks) No more writing down god’s conversations like smith did! Why?
Jesus is out there. The Bible is out there. That is all one NEEDS for salvation. In smith’s cult, Jesus is NOT enough. For Christians He is everything and ALL we need
I think most of the comments on this thread are missing the point. The question we should be asking ourselves is “Why would the LDS church donate money to the building of another religion’s temple?”
Being an active member of the LDS church myself, I find this information interesting. I don’t know the answer to that question, but I have a few possible ideas. Here are my thoughts:
1. To promote religious diversity in Utah. This temple may make Utah appear to be more diverse and accepting of religions other than Mormonism.
2. Missionary Work. This temple might encourage more members of the Hare Krishna religion to move to Utah where they may learn about and become converted to Mormonism.
3. Community beautification. Maybe the church is merely supporting the addition of new and interesting architecture to the area, regardless of its use.
Those are just three possible reasons. I’m sure there are many more.
WOW! I am always blown away by how our Mormon posters can spin things. Maybe the Mormon church contributed to the temple of another god because then all these worshipers will come and hear the truth out in Happy Valley? Why not; all these worshipers of the false god will move to Utah and contribute to the tax base by buying homes?
In Mormonism any explanation will do. It doesn’t matter. Pick something out of thin air and as long as it supports Mormonism, it works. It’s really difficult for me not to get cranky with the Mormons who show-up here. I must admit I lose my patients. Is there no explanation that is not acceptable to Mormons? Does Mormonism turn people into children waiting for Santa Claus on Christmas eve?
Why have the Community of Christ and the Temple Lot sects returned to the roots of Mormonism with its more conventional view of the nature of God? Somebody figured something out. Even Joseph Smith’s wife and son didn’t support the Brigham Young sect of Mormonism with its belief in plural wifery and multiplicity of gods.
When Joseph Smith first gave his account of his experience out in the woods, it was all about receiving assurance for the forgiveness of sins. Being the teller of tall tales that he was, the embellishments grew by leaps and bounds until he had himself a whole new god, a priesthood, temple rituals, a brand new plan of salvation and a whole new bunch of sex partners.
Yea, this is a guy you really want to follow. Real stable guy! Would you buy a used car from him? Why not, his clunker of a religion looks like a cream puff to the TBMs.
Falcon,
Interesting response. I actually don’t think any of the three options I gave “support Mormonism”. If anything, all three seem to make the church look like it is trying to “buy” good publicity for itself and the state. So I guess I don’t have the same view of these options as you do. They seem like three pretty selfish reasons on the part of the LDS church. Wouldn’t you agree that donating money with a selfish ulterior motive negates any positive aspect of giving?
The LDS church donates money to a variety of social causes around the world. I can see how this particular instance might stand out from the others though. Would you feel the same way if the church donated money to the Red Cross to build homes for poor, idol worshiping Hare Krishna believers in the developing world? And yes, I see the difference between a home and a temple.
A few months back Andy Watson wrote an excellent series of articles on the marvelous job Joseph Smith did in translating the papyrus which was, according to Smith, the Book of Abraham. Smith identified an image on a facsimile as “god”. As it turned out it was an Egyptian fertility god sitting on a throne fully exposing his…….manhood.
Well so is it any wonder that the Mormon church would make a contribution to the building of a temple to a false god. This is classic Mormonism. Hay, were dealing with a guy in Smith who was willing to rip-off the Free Masons and borrow more “truth and light” in developing these very sacred temple rituals from ancient wisdom.
But I guess if someone would believe that Smith had a magic rock that he put in a hat to “translate” some golden plates, why not buy the rest of the program?
“Well so is it any wonder that the Mormon church would make a contribution to the building of a temple to a false god. This is classic Mormonism.”
Really? You think the purpose of this donation made by the LDS church was to support the temple of a false god? I don’t see this as an endorsement of the Hare Krishna religion as true at all. If the LDS church donated money to help a Catholis or Baptist church to be built I wouldn’t see that as an endorsement of those religions as truth either.
I don’t forsee an anouncement coming out from the First Presidency any time soon that the Hare Krishna religion in also true (there are now TWO true churches!). Interesting that this seems to be what you are taking from the news of this donation.
I tend to go with my three previously mentioned options. Even though I don’t think they are all too positive towards the church either.
I’m actually OK with this. A lot of the Christian churches in the city where I live got together and helped build a synagogue for our Jewish community. It’s helped to build bridges between our faiths, and no one’s ever thought it implied we think Jesus isn’t the Messiah. (otherwise we’d close up shop!)
(I’m an ex-mo and I’ve only commented here a couple times I think.)
Mikey-Petey,
The three ideas you listed are all possible I
guess. As for me, I’m going with your #2.
Another thought I have is,if I were an LDS
such as yourself,I would ask if any of my
tithe money was involved. As a believer in
the Lord Jesus Christ, I would help out my
non-christian neighbor with most anything and
it would be a blessing to do so.Yet if my
Church helped pay to build a Temple, such as
the one in the story on this thread, then that
might be a big problem for me considering what
Sharon referenced above.
If done in the spirit of repentance and integrity and confession, that’d be wonderful.
But if not, it’d be like Tiger Woods never cheating on his wife again but never admitting his former adultery to begin with. Or like Ted Haggard ceasing his adulterous homosexual practices yet never confessing to having done it nor publicly repenting over having let millions of people down.
Changing behavior and doctrine doesn’t necessarily mean a person or institution is saved or beyond rebuke. Especially when there aren’t the fruits of repentance showing the convicting work of the Spirit.
It seems some Mormons want us to let Mormonism change some of its teachings but to let the Mormon institution pretend they former teachings never were taught. And I can see why: it helps the Mormon institution save face. It saves a sacred cow from being tipped. But that kind of protectiveness of a religious institution is sinful and proud. As long as the Mormon Church won’t own up to its past mistakes and the implications thereof, I’ll be piling on the Brigham Young quotes.
See where I’m gettin’ at?
Take care,
Aaron
Look, lets be straight here, Joseph Smith’s god was/is a false god. The god of Mormonism is an idol and is not the God of the Bible. Mormonism borrows plenty from various religious traditions, sects and cults. Mormonism flies under the banner of all religions have some “light and knowledge”. As far as Mormons are concerned, maybe this Krishna god is just one of the bunch of gods roaming about the universe. Who knows, he could be an exalted man also just like the Mormon idol god. If Joseph Smith could identify an Egyptian fertility god as “god” then everything is open to possibility. Continuous revelation is just another way of having a progressive redo.
If Mormons want to honor a Krishna deity and help build the temple to this idol, what’s the big deal? It all fits together nicely. Joseph Smith probably would have ripped something off from this religion also given the chance.
Sorry Falcon, I’m starting to feel like I’m talking with a conspiracy theorist. You said:
“As far as Mormons are concerned, maybe this Krishna god is just one of the bunch of gods roaming about the universe”
“If Mormons want to honor a Krishna deity and help build the temple to this idol, what’s the big deal?”
Really? Mormon’s believe that the Hare Krishna god is roaming about the universe and want to honor him? Comments like these are making it difficult for me to have this conversation.
Also, If you want to discuss the Book of Abraham, Book of Mormon translation methods, eternal progression, etc, that’s fine. But I don’t think this thread is the place for that and it is distracting from the content of the original post.
Mike R, thank you for your comments. I undertand why it might be a problem for you if your church helped pay to build a temple for another religion. It doesn’t bother me so much, but that’s just me. It seems like some Traditional Christians, such as spartacus007, agree with me. Not that I think there is anything wrong with either view.
Spartacus,
Okay – building a Jewish Synagogue is fine with you. I live in a heavily Jewish neighborhood and have no problem with Jewish neighbors – in fact, they make good neighbors. However, I would not expect them to support the building of a new Messianic Jewish Church. Neither would I expect the local Presbyterian Church to do a fund raiser for a Reformed Synagogue. But, actually, I can see how this might not be too offensive. However, where do you draw the line? How about a temple to Shiva, Hindu goddess of destruction or transformation? Or how about a building project for a witches coven, or neo-Pagans? Where exactly would you draw the line without it being arbitrary? If not on the principle that this is a false religion, then any line after that would seem to me to be arbitrary.
“Paul has given followers of Christ a rule to live by….”
this is the most insightful phrase of the whole article…my oh my, how the modern day Ev truly has strayed off the true course (paul’s commandments?).
This thread may be the most outlandish topic i have ever read on MC. I am not really sure how (or why) anyone would care what Paul “thinks”.
considering that the basic tenets of the Mormon faith include helping others and respecting their beliefs this is not really a surprising cooperative event (especially since the Hindu believe that there are many paths to God)
So, since there seems to be a lack of insight to draw the obvious “manifestation of God” into this discussion, i may have to sit out of this rather pedestrian topic.
falcon
lather, rinse, repeat
LDS church change doctrine to be more like evangelical chrisitianity?
wha? instead of “change” dont you mean “abandon”?
a more absurd notion would be difficult. To be more like the modern day EV would be nothing less than a “watering” down of LDS doctrine, amongst other things.
by the way all churches have been subject to continued revelation concerning their doctrine.
Subgenius,
Unlike you, I think this is huge. I am sure quite a few Mormons are troubled by it as well. I do think you nailed it though with the comment about the Hindu belief there are many paths to God. Aha! That is the connection! Mormons also believe there are many paths to God – as a matter of fact, just about any old path will take you there with vicarious works for the dead.
Hold on though. The many paths to God has a problem. It doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. Let’s say, I believe that denying God has a Son is a tenet of my faith, while someone else believes that only through God’s Son can one be saved, while another believes God has many literal children with Jesus just being one among many who share his basic nature. Now all these paths- each self exclusive cannot all be TRUE at once in any real sense. If one believes that these beliefs don’t matter and there are “many paths” you are essentially adopting another exclusive belief – Hinduism. Hinduism essentially DENIES that what all the other faiths say are true and creates ANOTHER exclusive “truth.” With it’s pantheon of gods, and “many paths” I think you have stumbled upon the truth – Mormonism is essentially another form of Hinduism. Moralistic, Self-Righteous, All-American Hinduism of sorts.
I’m not a Mormon and I found this news item to be pretty shocking for many reasons. One, I receive the “Mormon Times” and “Church News” weekly in my mailbox on Monday nights. I don’t recall reading this anywhere in the past year. I also read the “Ensign” and I don’t recall reading anything there either. It appears that the LDS Church has once again done a masterful job of keeping this donation out of the news for its members to know. I say that because so far not one Mormon has stated on here that they knew the Church had done this. I can guarantee that very few, if any, Mormons where I live (outside of Utah) know about this. This kind of secretive behavior seems to be condemned in the Book of Mormon:
2 Nephi 30:17 – “There is nothing which is secret save it shall be revealed; there is no work of darkness save it shall be made manifest in the light”
Second, if I were a Mormon, I would be enraged that money which has been given by members for supposedly worthy spiritual purposes in spreading the “restored” gospel was used to build a Hare Krishna temple. I think it’s grossly irresponsible for the LDS leadership to have come to this decision. By them being “hush-hush” about it, this appears to give it away. They waste no time in making known to the public what they do when they are proud of it. One of the GA’s can’t get to a microphone fast enough if a BYU professor doesn’t beat him to it.
How would you feel if you were a Mormon who left the bishop’s office today after making your end-of-the-year tithe settlement and had to write out a large check and then heard this news? What about all of Mormondom this Sunday that are going to participate in a fast offering this Sunday? $25,000 is a lot of money. To give this money to a blatantly pagan religion is a misappropriation of funds at the sacrifice of the Mormon people who will go hungry this Sunday for two meals so the LDS Church can put back into its account what they gave for the Krishna temple.
Couldn’t that money have been better served somewhere else? Could that $25,000 have been given to the poor and the Mormon people been told that they can now eat three meals this Sunday? With the national unemployment rate of 10% and many families and individuals in Utah hurting in various ways financially, couldn’t they have been wiser stewards with the money that the Mormon people gave the church and given this money to those families that really needed it? I know a lot of places in Utah that are heavily LDS that could use a Church sponsored stimulus package of $25,000!
Mormon 8:37 – “For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and needy, the sick and the afflicted.”
CASE #2: A Mormon couple who has been inactive like most of the LDS membership decides to get it together now and get caught up on their temple ordinances instead of camping out, being lazy and pushing it on to their relatives to do it for them by proxy later. They want to be married in the temple so they can become gods as stated in D&C 132. This couple is way behind on their tithing and they are now seated in front of the stake president who is willing to sign their temple recommend only if they sign over a check to get caught/paid up with the Church so they can then be declared “worthy” to enter the temple. Lo and behold, the amount adds up to $25,000 that they owe. They write out the check, get their temple recommends and head for the parking lot.
They head home, turn on their computer and find out that the LDS Church has given $25,000 to help build a Hare Krishna temple which is the worship of a pagan god in the form of pagan rituals. Should they be mad? If it were you, would you be upset?
I think deep down there will be Mormons who are truly outraged at this unwise decision of their leaders. No, they won’t say anything because the prophet would never lead them astray.
There are no justifiable reasons spiritually and biblically for LDS support in this venture. If it was for public relations – WRONG. If it was to rope them in later by flooding the place with missionaries for possible conversions – WRONG. There are no good reasons – NONE. Mormons also aided in the construction? How do they reconcile labor and money with this:
Alma 34:36 – “And this I know, because the Lord hath said he dwelleth not in unholy temples”
Will the Mormon god reside in this temple? I doubt any Mormon would say “yes”. For the Christian/non-LDS, we know that God doesn’t reside in temples anyway so the elaborate temples are meaningless for the reasons the Mormons point to them (Acts 7:48-49).
It’s one thing to participate in a community effort or project that all religious faiths are participating in (hurricane, flood, tornado clean-up, soup kitchens, etc.) It’s quite another thing to help in labor and in money in the bringing forth of a religious temple for the purpose of pagan worship to a false god. Do you see the difference? I think 2 Cor 6:14-17 needs to be read.
Here are some questions to think about:
1. Would Jesus Christ and His disciples who He instructed to teach us have approved of something like this and encouraged believers to do it?
2. Would they have participated in the donation or construction?
3. Does this make God happy? (Scripture is clear how God feels about false gods!)
4. Would this have taken place in Nauvoo in 1843 with Joseph Smith approving and giving money for the project?
5. Would Brigham Young have approved of it, financed it and gave men for labor in Salt Lake City in 1860?
6. If the Temple of Set or the Church of Satan decides to put up a temple in Provo, will the LDS Church repeat this performance? How about a Buddhist temple? (Don’t be a hypocrit!)
The questions could keep going. Mormons, if it were me I’d be eating 3 meals this Sunday and letting the bishop hear about it!
Bored in Vernal asked
I’m with Aaron here.
I even hope that the “Reformed Mormon Church” (or whatever it might be called) would engage, contribute and challenge the Ev community
However, even for the sake of your own internal dialog, you’d have to acknowledge your prior allegiance to Joseph Smith, and your present jettisoning of his “doctrines”.
I’m guessing that your perception of the Orthodox Christian traditions (including the Ev traditions) is that we’re a confused, bickering bunch. But we do hold to some central “doctrines” and “values’, which are well articulated in the historic creeds. Just to illustrate what it means to join in our dialog, and how far it might be from yours, here’s my quick shortlist;
* Jesus is fully and wholly God; He always has been and always will be.
* Jesus is fully and wholly human
* Put these two together and Jesus not only sets the pattern for us, he also provides the means by which we meet God and live with Him
* The Bible is God’s Word, meaning that it is the “thing” that guides us, and it does so reliably (no matter what its early history might have been)
* Truthfulness is valued highly, and the Christian community is called to articulate God’s love to the world clearly, in a way that the world might comprehend it
* The Christian community is called to worship God and to serve others.
* Salvation is God’s free gift
This is just a start, and others here will point out that I have left out this or that (the Holy Ghost, justification by faith etc).
However, I’d like to make one important point; we look firstly to whom God is, and our “doctrines” flow from that.
That’s why we get so prickly when people like Joseph Smith present a god that looks nothing like the God we see, and they do so with the claim that they are “restoring” true Christianit
subgenious,
Usually I don’t pay much attention to what you have to say, but your dig at Falcon is really rather immature, and your comment about this “pedestrian” topic is rather arrogant. It makes me wonder how old you are, if we’re dealing with an adolescent who ought to be pitied for your lack in all areas of life. Then, I realize that you just might be a full-grown adult who is so rattled by the truth proclaimed by the Christians that you just don’t know how to respond. You see, I am trying to understand you, the way you think, why you think that way, and why you attack Falcon the way you do. Since I used to be a Mormon, I can truly understand why you believe the way you do–it’s called indoctrination. It’s like an addiction in that it’s built on believing lies. When the lies are exposed, you have the need to fight against the truth and resort to irrational logic and arguments to defend yourself. It’s part of being a fallen human in a fallen world. It’s called self-preservation. Because I know this about humans, I can pity you and pray for you. I imagine you’ll either disregard what I’ve said or attack me the way you attack Falcon. It doesn’t matter because you are responding out of your brokenness, and I know what that’s like.
Blessings…
I guess it’s time for me to do a PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT for our new Mormon posters. Often times literary devices such as absurdity and hyperbole are used to dramatize and draw attention to a point. For example, Jesus telling people if their eye causes them to sin they should pluck it out or if their hand causes them to sin they should cut it off. In the nineteenth century, Johnathan Swift wrote an essay titled “A Modest Proposal” whereby he suggested one way to deal with rampant hunger in England would be to practice cannibalism.
If, for example, I talk about Mormons catching on to the Krishna god floating around in the universe, it draws attention to the fact of the Mormon belief in a multiplicity of gods and why couldn’t this god be like any of the other gods that Mormons acknowledge as legitimate gods. After all Joseph Smith was a great borrower of ideas that he would claim as “revelation” and introduce to his aberrant sect.
There are many Mormon “lurkers” who pass by this blog on a daily basis who are at the beginning stages of figuring Mormonism out and will eventually work their way free from the bondage of this false religious system. Many don’t have any idea about the real history of Mormonism and its founder, the aberrant and heretical teachings of a claimed “restored” gospel, and while they are experiencing the blatant hypocrisy and abusive nature of the Mormon system, don’t feel empowered to openly question it.
Now if there’s anything that I’ve learned about our TBM friends its that they wear their underwear way too tight and that Mormonism keeps them in a perpetual state of spiritual and emotional arrested development. Some, of course, are beyond breaking free from the Mormon thought box but the lurkers have at least reached the contemplative stage (as jackg terms it) and have some hope of breaking free.
So that’s my Public Service Announcement that is given one Saturday a month, usually at noon, like the old NORAD alerts.
I have enjoyed this dialogue. Thanks to all. Religion in culture globally is going through many changes, from the theocratic model of the Moslem world, to the whatever sectarianism of Europe. In the desire to be pluralistic, many want an ignorance based inclusivism – that is, I don’t want to know about your claims, and I don’t want you to know about mine. Or, to put it differently – neither of our claims is important to life, so we will ignore them, in public. What would I do about the Hindus in the neighborhood? My first task is to be a good neighbor to them. Smile and wave. Stop and chat. Pet their dog. Joke with their kids. Be respectful when I hear their early morning chants on summer mornings when the windows are open. Enjoy the smell of curry (Oh, wait, I AM already doing this). Respect them as people and as individuals and as seekers.
Then I would strive to be a good storyteller with them. Stories about my life and history. About my own religious pilgrimage, my ups and my downs. I would relish their stories.
Then I would strive to become a good trader with them. We would trade ideas and thoughts. I would share how I got this way, and how the Bible helps me through life’s issues. I would struggle with them through both of our problems. I would bring them to church, where I would explain how things work the way they do. I would explain the mystery of worship from my perspective and invite them to be respectful observers. I would do the same respectful observation at their temple and celebrations. I would treat their religion as real for them, as I ask them to do the same for me.
Perhaps that is too long of a journey for some, but the time frame is different with each person. I have had many conversations over the years which have led to deep spiritual discussions in a short time. I am not as gifted as Andy or Aaron in a more direct approach. I can’t talk like Falcon. But I submit that each of us is called to tell His story in and through our lives every day. If I was around that Krishna temple, I would strive to be a good neighbor to them. To love and honor and cherish them, as a reflection of the awesome love-gift that we have been given.
The bottom line is that we have an exclusivistic belief. We cannot deny it. But we can and do show others how to know the same truth. Some are disinterested. Some are intrigued. Some are offended. Some are changed.
Have a great weekend!
Good job Ward. You are a great contrast in style to me and I enjoy your perspective.
I have a hard and fast rule that I don’t support what I don’t believe in. I would guess the Mormon church follows that same principle. For example, I doubt if they would make a contribution to the building of an abortion clinic in Salt Lake City. Likewise they probably wouldn’t distribute condoms on Temple Square or sponsor a heavy metal concert there.
However they have seen fit to make a significant financial contribution to a Krishna Temple which celebrates a god of some sort. So I deduce that the Mormon church supports and perhaps even celebrates this Krishna god that is acknowledged within the walls of this temple.
Through out the OT we see revivals taking place among God’s people where by they tear down the worship centers on the “high places”. God was very clear with these folks that He wouldn’t tolerate this acknowledgment of stone cold false deities. Some of these deities had connections to demonic spiritual entities in the heavenlies.
Mormonism is much like these false religious cults of the OT with an acknowledgment and worship of a false spiritual deity. It’s so simple to figure out but like I stated in a previous post, Mormonism is not a perfect counterfeit, but it is an effective counterfeit. Mormonism projects a form of spirituality that on a surface level looks like a mainstream Christian religion. It’s only after the surface is scratched that the insidious cultic nature of Mormonism is exposed.
There are enough threads of “spirituality” running through Mormonism to give the tapestry the look and feel of a regular Christian denomination. There is only one topic that needs to be debated with Mormons and that is “who is your god”. All other topics are ancillary to this one fundamental basic belief.
By financially supporting a Krishna Temple, we learn that the Mormon god obviously doesn’t care if Mormons take a liking to other gods.
We know that Mormonism is not opposed to the acknowledgment of other gods as is seen by its very generous support for a center of worship to “another” god. We also know that Mormons can find “knowledge and light” and even “ancient wisdom” from a variety of sources including Free Masonry. We also know that Mormons aren’t opposed to embracing spiritual entities that may make appearances during various temple rituals. These spiritual entities may take the form of long dead relatives or even, in the case of Willford Woodruff, the dead signers of the Declaration of Independence.
Some Mormons absolutely groove on these spiritual manifestations seeing them as some sign coming right out of the Celestial Kingdom. They don’t have the discernment to recognize that what they are really dealing with comes straight out of someones fertile imagination or the demonic world.
I bang this drum often and loudly because Mormons need to recognize the clear difference between the spiritual being they call “god” and the God who reveals Himself in His holy Word the Bible.
Joseph Smith messed around with black magic, claimed second sight visions and had all manner of appearances by other worldly spirit creatures.
The fact that the Mormon church sees fit to support a temple to another false god is pretty much par for the course and fits well into Mormon folk lore and the world of spiritism that Smith wandered in. The fact that Mormons can’t discern the difference shows how they are willing to substitute the Living God for a vain idol that promises much but can deliver nothing.
It’s time for a revival within Mormonism where the high places are torn down and left in a smoldering ruin. It is only then that the salvation of God can be announced and be received as the Good News that it is. Until then, Mormons are left with a spiritual delusion that will result in their eventual personal spiritual destruction.
My initial post about Monson becoming a Hare Krishna may seem far-fetched, but no follower of Smith can say with finality that it could never happen. If the LDS GA’s issued a doctrine that Krishna was “a” god that is also worthy of worship there would be no recourse for the members. What this is the bedrock foundation of our faith truth would they have to fall back on to refute the prophet’s revelation?
The universlist post-modern mindset of many Smithians is revealed when Ralph makes comments like, “If that is what you believe then you will receive what you want” (paraphrase). It is revealed when a Smithian is questioned about their church’s doctrine and they respond, “Why can’t people stop tearing down our church? If you have a religion that works for you then practice it and leave ours alone.” If that’s true, then stop making the young-skulls-full-of-mush traverse the world on bicycles spreading the “gospel”, and leave other faiths alone.
I think statements by Hinkley like, “all religions contain good”, reveal that to the LDS GA’s it’s ok to support other religions because there is no actual “truth” in Mormonism. This statement may have just as well been, “All religions contain some truth.” Since no member can demand to know where church money is spent there is no telling which causes the church has given money to, and in reality the prophet can justify anything he does. That’s the purpose of having a living prophet, correct? This creates a “living evolving theology” that nobody can refute.
I want the authority to create a living measurement system, and I want people who believe in my system to build houses and cars to my ever changing standards. How would that go over in the minds of rational people. Smithians are irrational. There has to be a consistent standard to look to otherwise chaos results, which is what we seen in smithism.
This is the standard, “I AM the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father, but through Me.”
“I doubt if they would make a contribution to the building of an abortion clinic in Salt Lake City. Likewise they probably wouldn’t distribute condoms on Temple Square or sponsor a heavy metal concert there.”
Historical Record:
Dec 9,1869 – ZCMI Drug Stores advertises that is has just opened on Main Street with “Liquors, Draught & by the case.”
Jan 15,1897 – Apostle Brigham Young, Jr. temporarily resigns as vice-president of Brigham Young Trust Company because first counselor George Cannon allows its property to become “a first class” brothel on Commercial Street (now Regent Street), Salt Lake City. Apostle Heber J. Grant is invited to its opening reception and is stunned to discover himself inside “a regular whore-house.” This situation begins in 1891, & for fifty years church controlled real estate companies lease houses of prostitution.
July 11, 1901 – First Presidency & apostles agree that Danish beer is not harmful or in violation of Word of Wisdom and release an official statement to the same affect.
Apr 14,1904 – First Presidency & apostles decide to resume sale of liquor at church resort of Saltair due to need for non-Mormon patronage.
May 22,1925 – Deseret News editorializes in favor of new Utah law which legalizes horse racing & pari-mutual betting. Legislature has appointed Brigham F. Grant as chair of Racing Commission. He is manager of Deseret News & brother of church president, Heber J. Grant.
Mar 10,1941 – First Presidency orders Clayton Investment Company to get rid of its “whore-houses,” no matter the financial loss, so that church affiliated company can merge with church-owned Zion’s Securities Corp. Ends fifty years of church’s leases to brothels.
Oct 16,1951 – Temple council of First Presidency, Quorum of 12 and Patriarch to church decides to allow beer commercials on church-owned KSL television station.
July 3,1981 – After nearly eleven years of losing advertising revenues, Deseret News begins publishing ads for R-rated movies.
jackg
“I don’t pay much attention to what you have to say”
…then allow me to reciprocate.
Andy Watson
“if I were a Mormon, I would be enraged that money which has been given by members for supposedly worthy spiritual purposes in spreading the “restored” gospel was used to build a Hare Krishna temple”
this is why you are not Mormon…the only commandment from Christ is the one that the modern day EV has lost, or has diluted…that commandment os to love one another…not only love those who you deem worthy. This is why the vitriol of falcon and others is exposed as being sourced from a diluted message.
Failure to follow this simple commandment from Jesus is why the Ev is unable to “convince” anyone to fall with them.
So, yes, there are doctrinal and organiztional differences between the Mormon church and the Hindu temple. But LDS are fundamentally “indoctrinated” to serve others, as Christ would have all of us do. So, by helping this temple be built the LDS church has fulfilled not only a fertilizing of missionary ground, but also fulfilling the will of Our Heavenly Father and the commandment of Jesus.
So, as falcon “beats his drum” ad nauseum, and humbles himself to provide such gracious “public service proclamations” and others clamor about screaming polygamy this and magic rock that…the rest of us are busy living in the present time fulfilling what Jesus has shown and taught us.
prove your own selves-This should be your first aim, rather than “seeking a proof of Christ speaking in me”
please let the Ev who is “proven” step forward and proclaim it and then cast that first stone at my church…the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
(see also 2 Cor 13:5).
From Audarya Fellowship blog: (2001)
“Vaibhavi devi, the designer and supervisor of the construction, gives credit to others for making the vision a reality. Not only the dedicated Hindu community of Utah has aided our efforts, but the
local MORMONS have been wonderfully helpful, giving DONATIONS INDIVIDUALLY AND COLLECTIVELY, as well as coming in groups as large as 200 to do service projects on the premises. Many contractors have done work for free, or at discounted prices. We’ve invited them and their families to come, HAVE SOME FOOD, and receive our public thanks on opening day.
At 10 am June 23rd brahmin priests will chant Sanskrit mantras, sanctify the building with the traditional fire sacrifice (Homa), and conduct the ritual bathing and installation (Abhishek) of the 40′ high Radha Krishna MARBLE DEITIES, which were hand carved in Jaipur, India. From 1pm on the outdoor stage there will be a full menu of speakers and entertainment. Some of the expected speakers are Senator ORRIN HATCH, the STAKE PRESIDENT of nearby West Salem, Dr. Stanley Green,
Dr. Dinesh Patel, the leader of Salt Lake’s Indian Community, Dr. Neila Seshachari, professor of English at Weber State University & Governors’ appointee to the Utah Arts Council, and visitors from out of state to be announced. Preceding the main event on stage will be Utah’s own Pallavi Kharkar with selected dance offerings of grace and
beauty.
Delicious HOT MEALS of Indian curry with home made cheese (paneer), blueberry hallava, spicy Bengali rice, giant lentil chips (papadams), and samosas will be AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE from noon on. There will be Indian drinks such as mango lassi, and Nimbu pani, as well as sweets and pizza for the less adventurous. A large gift area will be
freshly stocked with items from Asia to take home as souvenirs of the landmark event-the opening of Utah’s FIRST Krishna Hindu temple.”
1 Cor 10:14-20 was quoted above. The next two verses, (not quoted) are interesting:
(cont.)
“You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons. Are we trying to arouse the Lord’s jealousy? Are we stronger than he? “Everything is permissible”—but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible”—but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.
Paul asks two questions of those who were eating at the pagan temples: “Are we trying to arouse the Lord’s jealousy? Are we stronger than he?” Paul is
explaining that to eat at pagan temples, knowing that demons are involved in that kind of activity, will arouse God to wrathful jealousy. There are two kinds of jealousy.
One kind is beneath God. It is a weak, insecure attitude of mind. For example: because of immaturity and insecurity, those who cannot let their spouse out of their sight. They have no trust in their partner, and constantly think the worst of them. That is ugly and does not represent God.
The other kind of jealousy however, comes from a heart of love and devotion. If I saw my wife drifting into a relationship with another man, I would be hurt and alarmed. My concern would cause me to speak with her about the problem. All couples enter a covenant with God when married. That covenant demands that we die romantically to all others. For her to break that covenant will put her in harm’s way.
What is true in marriage is also true in our relationship with God. There is no room for another god in a Christian’s life. If we flirt with false gods, you can be sure that the true and living God will confront us. It is what love does.
Pauls other point is also key. Are the smithians ‘seeking their own good’ in all this? You bet. “Everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial.” Take that to heart! More and more the smithians are looking for means to convert people despite the cost. Let’s help Satan now, we might benefit from it down the road… This is wrong & evil.
I see sub responded in the way I figured he would. Ah, then comes the lesson on love. Let’s see…the first commandment is to love God with all our hearts, might, mind, and strength. When we set that as our foundation, then paying for the temple of a false god is really tantamount to worshiping false idols, which is what this thread is all about as expressed in the title. This is OT stuff, and it’s pretty basic. So, how can I love God the way He commanded and support paying for the building up of high places and false gods? I can’t. There’s no wiggle room here no matter how much of a spin sub wants to put on it in his flowing overtones of arrogance without substance. Next, comes loving our neighbors. But, wait, we can’t really do this unless we’ve got loving God down. If I’m supporting the building up of idols, I would have to conclude that I don’t know what it means to love God. Okay, sub, I have concluded that you really don’t know what it means to love God. You will say you do or at least say it in your silence, but to love God is to build up His kingdom and not the kingdom of false gods. But, wait, that’s what Mormonism is all about, isn’t it? Building the kingdom of a Mormon god who had a beginning and was not always God. When you can get this first part of the commandment down, then we can talk about what it means to love others as ourselves. Love God, sub, and you will come to the Light regarding the actions of your church, which isn’t a Christian church. Thanks for expressing yourself so boldly and revealing the holes in Mormonism.
Blessings… and I really mean it.
I think subgenius has blown a fuse. He is confusing love one another with being ‘friends with the world.’
Perhaps all the smithians should contemplate what James says:
“You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.” (james 4:4)
It is one thing to love one another, to help those who are in need, to assist the poor, to forgive your enemies. Is helping to finance a temple dedicated to idol worship part of this? It is not. To support idol worship (whether financially or otherwise) is breaking a Commandment of God: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.” Helping pagans to build temples to idols is like helping men to commit a crime. It is a crime against the Lord.
What is the real motive behind all this? If what subgenius says is true: that they are commanded to help the Krishna’s, (and all men in this context) then why are they opposed to helping the gays with same sex marriage? Why don’t they help them finance their quest for equal rights? If they help them with that, perpaps they will also get some fertile missionary ground, but you don’t see that happening.
How about helping finance Islam, help them build mosques? Help the polygamist splinter groups build churches in Utah? His argument is wrong, unscriptural, and he is twisting the scriptures to support the smithians ulterior motives in helping these pagans.
It is all about context, remember? You can help the pagan in the street if he is hungry, homeless, and teach them about God, it is another thing entirely to help them build a temple to worship false gods.
Did smith examine himself when he called all of us an “abomination “and “corrupt?” I don’t think so.
Sub said:
“But LDS are fundamentally “indoctrinated” to serve others, as Christ would have all of us do. So, by helping this temple be built the LDS church has fulfilled not only a fertilizing of missionary ground, but also fulfilling the will of Our Heavenly Father and the commandment of Jesus.”
I have to tell you sub (aren’t you the same one who accuses Paul the Apostle of apostacy?), this comment made me a bit sick.
You’re not only using this to puff-up yourself, but you’re going to claim it’s the will of God???
An LDS man asked me once, why aren’t we Christian-witnesses-to-Mormon types spending more of our time, energy, and money assisting the poor instead of doing what we do? The answer to that is simple. Which “serving of others” is temporal, and which is eternal? The man who asked me realized immediately that what we are trying to do, save LDS’ souls, is the more important of the two.
LDS claim to have the restored temple stuff. Which is weird, because their stuff bears remarkably more resemblance to Freemasonry temple stuff than anything you can find in the Bible.
And then they’re willing to help another religion set up a temple.
I have two thoughts on this. Perhaps it’s the temple buildings that are the thing… can’t have God around unless there is a physical building, Mormon or otherwise.
Or… perhaps from the $25000, the LDS church is hoping to receive a list of members from the Krishna’s… and they’ll rush in and do proxy work for them.
Mikey_Petey: I enjoyed your comments above, not because of how Mormon they sound, but because of the air of teachability. It almost sounds as though you are not going to just let this one slide off your back. I hope so. And I hope you continue to post.
jackg
your conclusions are biased and unfunded. its amazing how you pervert the commandment for your own ego.
1 Cor 10:33 is at the front of my mind here, especially the whole chapter.
the unproven assumption being made here is that this Hindu temple is a place of idolatry.
For it is the EV, such as yourself, that lack the understanding. You are bound to the earth and parade your banner of “born again” and tout the promise that it is only you that knows who God really is….all the while stepping on the true Word with dirty boots.
grindael
brevity is still in the forest, eh?
your comment about helping gays and same-sex marriage has finally exposed the shallow end of your reasoning….feeble indeed. you can rely on Paul but i rely on Jesus.
grindael,
You write as a Christian with a Christian’s perspective on the nature of God. Mormons don’t get what you’re talking about because they don’t acknowledge or worship God. They have attached themselves to one of many “gods” tooling around the universe somewhere hitting all of the hot spots with his many goddess wives.
So when you speak of God, they can’t relate in any way to what you say. There’s millions and billions perhaps of these Mormon gods making the scene and they hope to be on board with them as soon as they gasp out their last breath.
As Christians we believe in one everlasting, eternal God who has no beginning and will have no end. Our God is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. He is all knowing, He is every where, and He is all powerful. Contrast that with the Mormon god. Mormons have managed to shrink their god down to managable size.
There is no support for a being like the Mormon god in the pages of scripture. So Mormons solve that problem by down-grading the Bible. There is no support for Mormonism period within the pages of God’s holy Word so Mormons imagine fantastic conspiracy theories that make the “who really shot JFK” crowd look like kindergarden level conspiracy freaks.
So the only question is, is there someway the Mormon church can manage to extract 10% of the income from the Krishna crowd?
subgenius,
What don’t you get about Paul being Jesus chosen intrument? If you bother to RETAIN anything you read, you would realize I’ve had this conversation with you about Paul. I’ve made my beliefs known in reference to Jesus. But I forget, you believe in Jesus, the Joe version. YOUR Jesus is totally different than the one Paul saw on the road to Damascus. Perhaps what Joe said will change your mind:
“When any man obtains this last Comforter, he will have the personage of Jesus Christ to attend him, or appear unto him from time to time, and even He will manifest the Father unto him, and they will take up their abode with him, and the visions of the heavens will be opened unto him, and the Lord will teach him face to face, and HE MAY HAVE A PERFECT KNOWLDEGE of the mysteries of the Kingdom of God; and this is the state and place the ancient Saints arrived at when they had such glorious visions—Isaiah, Ezekiel, John upon the Isle of Patmos, ST. PAUL…”
If Paul had such a PERFECT KNOWLDEGE of God, it might be best if you give heed to him. Did Joe know him? Obviously:
“He is about five feet high; very dark hair; dark complexion; dark skin; large
Roman nose; sharp face; small black eyes, penetrating as eternity; round shoulders; a whining voice, except when elevated, and then it almost resembled the roaring of a lion. He was a good orator, active and diligent, always employing himself in doing good to his fellow man.” (Teachings, pg. 104)
Perhaps you should seriously consider finding that stone and hat. Then you might get on the same level as your god smith was on. That is what Heber C. Kimball tells you to do:
“You can call us fools: but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will … look upon him [Joe] as a God, and also upon Brigham Young, our Governor in the Territory of Deseret. (JOD, Vol 5, pg 88)
If all else fails, you can move to Spanish Fork and choose one of the Krishna gods.
Why be brief when there is so much to share?
Sub, how can a temple built for the purposes of worshiping a false god not be a place of idolotry. What is the second commandment?
I’m pretty sure the marble statues of the dieties are exactly what the commandment speaks of.
As for as Jesus’ commandment to love one another, it was spoken to His disciples, not just mankind in general. To love another as we love ourselves does not mean to leave those who are bound for hell secure in their idololtry. It is truly loving to tell someone that they are lost in their sins with no way to pay for them. Neither Smith’s god(s) or Krishna can pay for your sins. Only submission to the true Jesus Christ of the Bible because He alone has made full payment for you frees you from the penalty for your sins: eternal hell. You have heard the gospel clearly dozens of times because we sincerely hope to see you saved. Even though you are a bitter pill it is still out of true love for your soul that we continue to argue with you. Read how Jesus responded to the scribes and Pharisees. You would say he was unloving because he was not kind. I would say he truly loved because he told them the truth about their sin and its consequences.
My church would not support the building of a Hindu temple, a Mosque, an LDS church building, or a Kingdom Hall. My church would assist those people in meeting their temporal needs, but as we were giving them the true gospel. This is why I don’t knowingly support LDS businesses or doctors, but I have LDS friends. I know that a portion of my money will go to support your church, which preaches a false god and false message of salvation.
sub wrote
I find it hard to believe my eyes, when I read this. Nothing could be further from the expressed intents and purposes of Jesus’ mission.
However, it does provide an insight into why LDS would support the building of a Hare Krishna temple. It appears to be very much aligned to the LDS instinct to build temples (as in real brick and stone structures). The fact that its a Hindu, rather than a Biblical temple, is a mere detail. Maybe LDS consider it to be an approximation to their own temples?
The real question is why they should be building temples at all. Here are my queries;
* Its a kind of “priming” excercise – when people orient their faith around the Hare Krishna temple, then they can be habituated towards orienting their faith around the LDS temple
* Everybody needs to build temples to get God’s attention. Surely, he’s got to give us credit for building a temple, even if some of the details are wrong (e.g. 40 marble statuettes/idols)
* The LDS people are so doctrinally weak, they’d accept anything that came along dressed in religious language.
All this totally ignores the fact that Jesus and His followers comprised a counter-temple movement.
The defining distinctive of the Christian Gospel is that the locus of our religious enterprise has moved from the Temple to the person of Jesus.
Jesus is the true Temple (Rev 21:22). We worship God in Jesus, we get forgiveness in Jesus, our cleansing, salvation and righteousness is secured in Jesus, the Christian community’s identity is centered in Jesus, we meet God in Jesus, our treasure is invested in Jesus. Not the temple.
Any attempt to substitute Jesus with buildings of brick and stone undoes the work and mission of Jesus
Grindael,
That was some interesting info you posted under
the “Historical record”.
Do you think that those Mormons mentioned there
relied on personal revelation to make those
moral and business decisions?