On October 24th, the LDS First Presidency (led by Prophet Thomas S. Monson) wrote several letters that were to be read in Mormon Sunday services around the world. According to examiner.com, the first letter was “likely spurred by Boyd K. Packer’s most recent General Conference talk entitled ‘Cleansing the Inner Vessel.’ Church Headquarters has been receiving an increased amount of correspondence from its members about doctrinal issues. Because of this influx of correspondence, the First Presidency reminded and encouraged LDS church members to utilize their local church authorities – bishops, branch presidents, stake presidents, etc — before resorting to contacting Church Headquarters.”
In other words, the Mormon laity was told to quit bothering their church leadership on issues related to doctrine. We can only wonder why the church is apparently receiving so many inquiries. Could it be that Christians are asking their Mormon friends and family members difficult questions who are unable to provide satisfactory answers? Regardless, the leadership apparently feels the number of questions is overwhelming their resources. I just can’t imagine Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Malachi writing in the Old Testament, “You people are asking too many questions. We’re too busy doing other things, so leave us alone.” Yet this appears to be the attitude of Monson and his two advisers.
Since Monson and his counselors are supposed to have a direct connection with God—they are, after all, leaders of God’s supposedly restored church—it would seem that they have the necessary resources at their disposal to provide answers. Just direct the general authorities speaking at the biannual general conferences to deal with these befuddling issues. But Monson and the other leaders weren’t born yesterday. They know that deferring to local leaders means the hierarchy can distance themselves from any answers brought forth by bishops, stake presidents, and others below the general authority level. Their answers can not be considered official doctrine, so if they come up with unpopular responses or even contradict Mormon teaching, nobody will call their answers “official doctrine.” Letting the lower leaders take the heat keeps the pressure off those in Salt Lake City. Smart move.
I can only imagine the questions being asked that the LDS leadership would rather avoid, including:
- Is it true that Joseph Smith was married to some 34 different women at the same time, 11 of whom were already married to other men and 11 who were teenagers?
- How do I answer my Christian friends who have been showing me this DNA video saying there is no scientific connection between Native Americans and the Lamanites talked about in the Book of Mormon?
- President Monson, there must be archaeological evidence to support the Book of Mormon story, but I’m being told there’s none. Can you please direct me to these artifacts?
- Is it true that three of the apostles have been spiritually married in the temple to second wives for eternity?
- If we believe in free agency, then why is our church trying to buy a street in Manti in order to keep Christians from sharing their faith near the pageant grounds?
- I’ve been shown some very difficult verses in the Bible about salvation, as my Christian friends say it’s possible to know that we are forgiven because it’s not based on my efforts. It seems to contradict the way I’ve been taught. How can I answer?
- Why does our church emphasize Gethsemane for the atonement rather than the cross?
- I need direction on the Virgin Birth. We don’t believe there was some type of physical union between Heavenly Father and Mary, do we?
Are you able to see why the church had to write this letter?
Hey, wouldnt it be funny to see not only Mormon members writing letters, but other religions and non-religious people too? I would love to see an outpouring of mail to the church, and see what happens…..
Look the grand pooh bahs can't be bothered by the little people bugging them with these trivial matters that seek only to confuse people and serve the critics of God's one true church. There has to be order in the church and they need to take their concerns to their immediate upline in the endless Mormon hierarchy that eventually gets to the Council of the Gods. What these folks with questions need to do is to seek revelation from the Mormon god themselves. That's what Mormonism is all about isn't it? That was Joseph Smith's selling point to his converts; they could seek and receive revelation (from God). And why not? Mormonism changes its doctrine at the drop of a hat (whether it contains a magic rock or not).
No this is pretty much arrogance and yes they don't want to have to clarify their doctrine. It reminds me of a guy I worked for once who didn't want any policies because then he'd have to abide by them. It's amazing that Mormons brag that they have prophets that hear directly from the Mormon god and yet these so called prophets really can't be bothered to clarify matters for the rank-and-file little people.
BTW, just keep sending in your tithe folks!
Why do we need to keep the law when Jesus broke the law? The law shows how much we need Jesus not to keep the law so that Jesus will find us worthy to repent of our sins. Tore the veil between heaven and earth. Clean hands before using hand sanitizer idea.
Anyone who understands ministry would be able to define the roll of a Pastor/Bishop versus the Pope. A Pastor or Bishop is someone who presides over the local branches of a religious group. These General Authorities are merely referring disciples to their local leaders first. These local leaders are able to better serve those they have stewardship over because they know them personally and have the accessibility to help them as they see fit. Of course if someone went to their local leader first and was not able to receive the help they need, then they could contact a General Authority. This story is merely defining the way the church is organized- local leader first, then higher up if needs be. A church with over 13 million members has to have a leadership system in place.
And my comment probably wont be posted here because you moderate comments and don't allow any opposing views on your blog. A shame.
If you want ACCURATE information, visit mormon.org.
It's all the more interesting to me that you feel your organization can succeed in leading Mormons away from their faith. You're wasting your time.
I think many of the Mormon hierarchy realize that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is really, at it's core, a fraternal organization of sorts. That there are no real answers there – that the Masonic rituals being adapted/adopted really point to a bigger truth – LDS is just a group of guys that promote a lifestyle and certain morality, good works, and fraternal rituals. Monson knows he's not a prophet receiving Scripture from a 'godhead' for distribution to the faithful. Their lack of answers must be frustrating and embarrassing to them, but not so much so that they will relinquish the power and prestige of leading a huge multi-million dollar corporate fraternal order. Which only makes sense – the LDS are lead by successful businessmen, people with prestigious world positions of power and influence. People asking questions are really trying to get more out of the organization than it has to offer.
Very good description of Mormonism, Salt Lake City version. Part of the appeal of Mormonism is personal revelation and on-going revelation. These are two things that really keep the faithful stoked-up. They never stop to consider that the "revelation" that is received has no real standard by which to judge it. So there we have it. On-the-one-hand the faithful want answers to some pressing questions. On-the-other-hand, there are no answers to their pressing questions. Joseph Smith made it up as he went along borrowing from here there and every where to fashion himself his very own religion. He was a product of his times where religious experimentation was on a hyper track. The thing that keeps people stuck in Mormonism is the feeling that it's all true and once received, the feeling cannot be questioned. Apart from the feeling (supposing it came from God) is a whole bunch of unsubstantiated and easily debunked claims of supernatural events and amateur archeological claims and flawed understanding of history.
Look, we even had the great Mormon prophet Gordon B. Hinkley say that he wasn't sure that they ever taught that men will become gods. If he didn't know this or if he was lying about not being aware of it (pick the second), it's just further evidence that these guys are liars and are really clueless. The fact that they opted out of publishing further Bruce McKonkie's book on Mormon doctrine speaks volumes about the state of flux of their doctrine. He was, during his life time, the go to guy for the Mormon big wigs when it came to LDS doctrine.
It's very interesting to examine the beliefs of the Mormon sects who don't support Salt Lake City style Mormonism. Same origin totally different conclusions. Who to believe? None of them!
This would be like everyone gathering around Jesus to ask Him questions on Salvation and Him refusing to say anything but deferring them to His apostles. Christs whole purpose was to share the good news that He Himself would fulfill.
What is God thinking talking to the president of the LDS church when Monson won't open his mouth to those yearning to know. What a disgrace. Monson is worth about as much as a box of rocks. They truly are just business guys managing money. Pathetic disgrace.
You might be right if they only got a few letters each day. But I would assume they get hundreds of letters each day. It would be physically impossible for them to respond to each one. This is what the local leaders are for and I don't see the issue with this written reminder of that.
Courtney,
I'm not one of the mods here but I've been around for three years and I can tell you that I've never seen them nuke a Mormon poster unless the person went over the line in terms of civility and good manners. It's interesting that you told folks to head out to a Mormon website/blog if they want answers. Most of the folks who post here use Mormon references to support their assertions regarding Mormonism. What I sense here with you is the idea of Mormon persecution which is one of the fall back position of Mormons when they get their backs against the wall. The other is the old "I bear my testimony….." approach.
Stick around here and post. We could use some true believers to demonstrate to us how we are getting it wrong about Mormonism.
BTW, the Mormon hierarchy has done a very poor job over its history, of defining what LDS doctrine is. Just take a look at the Pratt vs. Young controversy regarding whether or not the Mormon gods are constantly progressing or if they have complete knowledge once they become a god. Also check out BY's adam-god doctrine, blood atonement and the need for a man to have more than one wife if he is to attain the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom and godhood.
Nice to have you here!
Courtney, You are so wrong.
Pastors and Bishops are servants, Jesus said He came to serve Not to be served. Also if a pastor claims he is burned out then that is nothing more than a job to him. We should never be burned out if we are serving the Lord and doing His will. Jesus said My yoke is easy and my burden is light.
The Church is supposed to be here for the People, not the people here for the Church. Also you Judge and you Judge in a wrong manner by saying your thoughts will not be posted. The only time I see some one being deleted, is for swearing or lying or things along that nature. But for simply not agreeing.
These verse sum up the Mormon leadership.
Hi, Courteny! Welcome! We'd love to have you stick around and respond and enjoy a dialogue with us. Just because the majority of comments come from non-Mormons, that doesn't mean we don't welcome a Mormon POV. In fact, I'd love to have more of it here.
I do have a question: can you point me specifically to a place on mormon.org where the content of this post and your comment would be answered as accurate information? I'm sorry, but I can't seem to find it. Thanks!
Why not categorize the questions and put them on an LDS website with "frequently asked questions" as a header? It couldn't be all that difficult and would be a great learning opportunity for both the leadership and rank and file. With technology the way it is, there's really no excuse for not getting back to people with a clarification.
But here's another thing to consider. It seems to me that Mormonism fosters an attitude of "learned helplessness" among it's members. Why don't the members simply do some research themselves and determine what the Salt Lake City brand of Mormonism has taught on a particular subject. I'm not a Mormon and I know where to go to look things up if I want to see what the Mormon church has said and taught on a subject. It's really not that difficult. The difficult thing is the confusing mess that is Mormonism. Walter Martin called it a "maze" and it's certainly all of that. There are so many contradictions in Mormon teaching that I can see where the average Joe and Jane Dokes gets confused.
Remember one other thing, the local leaders are not trained. They are administrators that don't do much without the OK from the boys in Salt Lake City. Their knowledge of the Bible is paltry. Thery'e stuck on surface level Mormonism with its platitudes, slogans and mottos.
They are good, however, at shaking down the membership for their tithe and grilling unsuspecting souls regarding their sexual habits and other points associated with sin and the word of wisdom.
Good afternoon Mike,
I certainly don’t expect them to respond to thousands of letters individually, but I’m sure there are common questions that multiple people ask. It would be inefficient for them to just write a letter back to the individual. THIS is precisely why General Conference could be so VALUABLE! – to take to heart and to God the questions of their faithful and broadcast the answers Monson and the other apostles receive from Heavenly Father.
Instead of a feel-good, do-good, be-good lame boring talk every General Conference, put some MEAT into your talks and bring it back to the old days of Brigham Young and Joseph Smith – who weren’t afraid to touch on deep doctrinal issues from the pulpit. General Authorities, your faithful are DROWNING in all the milk you been pouring down their gullets, and frankly, I think people are really starting to become bored with milk. LESS CALCIUM MORE PROTEIN PLEASE!
to be continued…
Continued..
It’s easy Monson and gang.. Make a commitment to read 10 letters a day (hell, our President does that). Take common doctrinal questions/themes from those letters and broadcast the answer you have or have received from God at General Conference. People will be like “Man, I been wondering about that!”
They won’t though, they are fake and they know it. Better to hold your tongue than show you’re a liar.
The Bible states, through Jesus's words, that no one but the Father knows the time of the end of the world. So, essentially, anyone who presumes to "predict it" is going against Jesus's own words and Biblical teaching. In essence, anyone who presumes to predict the end of the world is a false prophet because Jesus already said that no one except the Father in heaven knows the time.
Matthew 24:36 : No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. (NIV)
Matthew 24:36 : But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. (KJV)
Went to mormon.org. Searched 'general authority'. It went to a blog and this was one man's explanation. Can you explain to me the 'keys', and why it was necessary that the church be 'restored'. This makes absolutely no sense to me.
Why do you have 12 Apostles? They were just meant to be around for the time of Jesus Christ, not to be replaced with new apostles. This is part of the blog that I copied: This question was posed to G West and this is part of his answer that I cannot comprehend:
Have we come "unto a perfect man" like Christ himself? No. There never has been and there never will be another person like Jesus Christ. Thus, there will always be a need for living apostles and prophets to guide Christ's church. We see in the ancient Church that the remaining eleven apostles fasted and prayed, and cast their lots for Matthias to become one of their number. They acted to replace a vacancy in that quorum of twelve special witnesses of the Lord's resurrection. Some time later, James was killed on Herod's order. The Lord appeared to Paul. In time, he was added to the apostles' number. There is clear scriptural evidence of an intent to maintain a quorum of twelve apostles. The unity of the Church, of which Paul spoke, in Ephesians 4:5 depended not only on the the presence of the key-holders, but on the acceptance of those officers appointed by Jesus and the revelations he gave the Twelve. There came a time however, when even the Church rejected them. We read in the third Epistle of John, about a man named Diotrephes, who sought to usurp power and authority in the ancient Christian Church. He rejected the authority of the apostles and excommunicated those who opposed him and his ambitions. "I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church." 3 John 1:9-10 It seems unimaginable that a Christian man would defame "with malicious words" one of the chosen servants ordained under the hand of Jesus himself. Yet, it was the case. This is one of the symptoms of a general, widespread apostasy that led to the Lord removing the apostleship from among mortal men. Before the Church was organized in 1830, it was necessary that the apostleship, with its keys and authority be restored as it was in ancient times. Without those keys, the Church of Jesus Christ does not exist. When they are present, and those who hold the keys are accepted by even a small group of believers, God's power rests upon the Church.
Eric summed it up in this sentence – “the First Presidency reminded and encouraged LDS church members to utilize their local church authorities – bishops, branch presidents, stake presidents, etc — before resorting to contacting Church Headquarters.”
Note it states “BEFORE RESORTING”. Many of the questions asked can be answered by the local leaders and are trivial little things. But if the local leaders can’t answer the question, then it gets referred to the next level, and so on. This is only to keep the General Authorities free to answer the real letters that contain substance in their questions. And yes, they do answer letters like that, from what a friend of mine has told me (I haven’t had any personal experience yet – but I’ve never asked a question from any of my leaders, I’ve researched my own answers).
Sharon,
I don’t know why the person sent to you acted in that manner, but just remember, we are only human and not perfect. Maybe he did what he thought was a good job, or the best that he could do in answering your question. I would have done things differently and I am sure that someone else would have done things differently again.
Sarah, my sentiments exactly. Also, I might add.. What part of “Jesus Christ, son of God, became man, died sinless on behalf of all sinners so they may be united with their Creator in heaven” do you think is difficult for Christian brothers and sisters to comprehend? The Mormon church will always have more doctrinal concerns and questions because Joseph Smith and gang are the ones who professed these extra-biblical doctrines. He even made three books to reference them along with other apostles and prophets writings. Not only does the Mormon church have more doctrinal concerns, but they have the misfortune to have to base this all upon a 14 year old treasure seekers “vision” and stories surrounding that. The truth-claims of Mormonism (book of Abraham and connection between Native Americans and the lamanites for example) are all under the lens of a microscope and the findings don’t look favorably upon the LDS faith. Which based upon such proclamations causes the validity of the foundation of the LDS faith to come into question
Sarah,
Curious, is there an equal statement reguarding the hour of creation? There are people who claim to know the exact "Birthday" of the earth, down to the day, hour and second, using biblical sources. Its sort of the same question, but in reverse. This preacher addressed that particular verse. Honestly I don't recall, but it sounded good and 'biblical'. (he was holding the bible when he answered)
There always seems to be a loophole, or loopverse to evade problems with biblical predictions, prophesies etc…
I think Falcon has a very good idea. I would imagine the LDS leaders receive many letters dealing with the same question. Perhaps they could keep track of how many times they are asked a certain question, and place the top 25 (or more) into some sort of pamphlet or announcement. This would probably cut down on the number of letters they have been receiving.
I would like to share a few questions I'd be interested in hearing answers to:
1. In response to the question, "Is there more than one God," the Book of Mormon answers "No." Why does the Book of Abraham and many LDS prophets answer this question so differently?
2. Often, LDS people call Jesus Christ "the Savior." But if asked what they have been saved from, they don't know how to answer, or don't understand the question. If one hasn't been saved by Jesus Christ, why call him "the Savior?"
3. Did Brigham Young believe monogamy is a divine institution? If he did, then why did he say the following:
"This monogamic order of marriage, so esteemed by modern Christians as a holy sacrament and divine institution, is nothing but a system established by a set of robbers" (Journal of Discourses, 9:322).
Ralph, to be fair to your leaders, I'm sure the amount of letters they receive does hamper their
efforts to answer each one personally, that's understandable . The question I have on this topic
is, why are so many LDS asking for help on doctrinal questions ? Perhaps information from such
ministries like this one (MRM) is bearing fruit by causing sincere LDS to clearly see that there is
more to " Mormonism" than what they were first led to believe, and this might be troubling them .
ww
Quite frankly, I don't know why the LDS church doesn't encourage people to use their own personal seer stone like Joseph Smith had. At the very least, they could have every member buy an LDS official magic 8 ball they could use to answer their questions. I'd like to see what the questions are that the LDS members ask the apostles and prophets of their church. What could they be? The Mormon church is real good at giving sluff-off answers and "all better now blankies" to its members. One of the big problems of course is when the dutiful members start finding out information that the Mormon church has done its best to hide, whitewash or outwardly lie about. When the credibility of the "one true church" is called into question and it's all too much for an individuals testimony to handle, the whole house of cards starts tumbling down. This is truly a church built on a foundation of sand. It doesn't hold-up real well to scrutiny. Mormons who leave, go through predictable stages and the big enemy of their testimony is accurate information.
Sharon, I had a similar experience to yours. 30 years ago we had sold a horse to a young Mormon
woman. I began to ask her questions, she then gave the book " A Marvelous Work and Wonder " by
Mormon apostle LeGrand Richards.This was just about the time that Spencer Kimball claimed to
receive the revelation on blacks etc. I wrote to Mr. Richards concerning this "revelation " , and he
was kind to reply back. Although his answer was deficient ( he said that he did'nt have time to
worry about what recent past Mormon leaders taught on this, he was following the " living prophet "
and that meant all was ok ) . Years later when I sent a letter to Church headquarters, two local
LDS showed up at my door with the letter offering to answer my question etc . I have'nt wrote to
headquarters since. ww
Who said that all of the letters are doctrinal? From what I have heard many letters are about things like “when’s the second coming?”, or “shall I marry this person or that person?”, etc. Yes there are questions in there that are doctrinal, but there are also others that are not.
Someone mentioned earlier, why don’t they read and answer 10 letters a day like the president does. Yep that’s fine and dandy, but even if the 3 First Presidency does that and they receive (Lets be modest here) 100 letters a day, that makes 70 letters a day, or 490 letters a week they have not answered, and that brings in a backlog that cannot be completed. So to answer a certain number of letters, they want to choose those that are necessary to answer.
I like the idea about a FAQ on the LDS page, but I just can’t see that happening.
OOPS Brian,
The JD doesn't count; sorry. That's just opinion. Do you know why? Because it's embarrassing, that's why. Mormons are stuck with this inane gibberish. Here's a couple of questions I'd like answered:
1. What happen to the six foot tall men who dressed like Quakers that Joseph Smith said lived on the moon?
2. How come the BoA parchment says something different from what Joseph Smith said?
3. Is it adultery to marry a woman who is already married to one of your followers, as Joseph Smith did?
4. Why was it OK for Joseph Smith to drink alcohol and use tobacco in violation of the Word of Wisdom?
5. Why did Mormon leaders continue to marry more wives after the 1890 manifesto said that polygamy was no longer acceptable?
6. Why was Mark Hoffman able to fool the prophet and the apostles of the Mormon church with his scam to sell them bogus letters that exposed Joseph Smith?
7. Why did Joseph Smith try to sell the copyright to the BoM after he had written it?
Those are pretty good questions. Time for some Mormons to bear their testimony or charge that they are being persecuted.
I was wondering how many letters the Pope gets? I’m guessing he gets a ton a mail. I don’t know what the content of the letters are (fan mail?) but the fact that people would write him doesn’t seem that unusual to me. Catholics have a pretty well defined set of doctrinal beliefs so if someone does have a question they could look it up or ask the parish priest. I’m also wondering about the emotional maturity and intellectual horse power of the Mormons writing to their leadership. Another point, these leaders are like rock stars to the truly Mormon faithful. Getting pestered goes with the territory if you’re famous. And BTW, does anyone think that Billy Graham possibly got letters from people? I’m guessing he wore out more than a couple of mailmen in the years he was in active ministry. I’ll bet there was a staff in Minneapolis that handled the volumes of mail he got.
Here’s another thought and it comes from the Bible. Exodus 18 starting at about verse13. Moses’ father-in-law observes how Moses is handling the hordes of people he had to deal with. Jethro gave Moses some advice. The problem was that everyone wanted to speak with Moses. Here’s what the Bible says: “And it came about the next day that Moses sat to judfge the people, and the people stood about Moses from the morning until the evening. Now when Moses father-in-law saw all that he was doing for the people, he said, ‘What is this thing that you are doing for the people? Why do you alone sit as judge and all the people stand about you from morning until evening?” And Moses said to his father-in-law, ‘Because the people come to me to inquire of God. When they have a dispute, it comes to me, and I judge between a man and his neighbor, and make known the statutes of God and His laws.’ And Moses’ father-in-law said to him, ‘The thing that you are doing is not good…….’Now listen to me………You be the peo0ple’s representative before God, and you bring the disputes to God, then teach them the statues and the laws, and make known to them the way in which they are to walk, and the work they are to do…furthermore, you shall select out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain; and you shall place these over them, as leaders of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties and of tens.’
Now it seems that the Mormons have come up with some sort of organizational hierarchy but the problem is two fold. First of all they don’t know God just as the Hebrews didn’t know God before Moses led them out of Egypt. This is no small matter. If a people don’t know God, they don’t know anything and are heathens. Secondly the people were to be taught the laws and ordinances of God. The Mormons have a confused mess of doctrine that reflects their first problem; they don’t know God.
So the Mormon faithful can wallpaper the LDS HQ in Salt Lake City with their inquiries and because their leaders don’t know God, any answer they might receive is merely dust that will blow away.
In First John chapter 2 verses 26-28 the apostle writes the following:
"These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. And as for you the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for any one to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him. And now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming."
Questioning Mormons run into a road block in more ways than one when they attempt to get their questions answered by a general authority of the Mormon church. First of all, since these men themselves are deceived, the chances that they might be able to provide an accurate answer grounded in truth is not possible. When the apostle wrote his Epistle he confronted this issue of appointed but not anointed people, misleading others.
Those who have been born again by the Spirit of God have an inner witness that leads them into all truth. Those who don't have this inner witness have a lot of confidence but this confidence is more akin to bravado than the confidence a born again believer in Jesus Christ has.
Mormons have chosen another path, another god, another Jesus, another spirit and a deception that cannot provide salvation for their souls. Committing the sin of rejecting God and elevating themselves to an illusion of godhood, Mormons have turned away from their only hope to embrace the pride of men. Hoping that this false god and their own works will attain for them the status of a deity will not end well for Mormons.
Mormons can send off their questions all day long to their false prophets and apostles but they may as well be sending their requests off to Santa Claus at the North Pole. Even if one of these false prophets would consent to answer the faithful Mormon's question, the answer would not be one inspired by the Spirit of the living God.
Thinking that their good works and fruit proves the truth of their false gospel, Mormons need to be reminded that even atheists can do good work and produce lushes looking fruit. But the living God only recognizes those who have been born again by His spirit and claim eternal life based on the sacrifice of His Son Jesus Christ who is the only qualified redeemer.
Exactly. Ralph. We are only human and not perfect' 'Maybe he did what he thought was a good job, or the best that he could do in answering your question. I would have done things differently and I am sure that someone else would have done things differently again.' That is exactly why man cannot follow man. Man will be led astray. Men follow God's Word only. The scripture reads something about the Word was God. Men can have good intentions but isn't the path to 'he**' paved with good intentions. Anything that leads anyone away from the direct path to Jesus is leading people away from Jesus. Men become power hungry, or like Joseph Smith said, 'Give me your farms and the church will divide everything equally so that no one may need charity.' This is when the 'totalistic authoritarian pyramid' thing scares the average person. That is scary. Just do as I say. Don't think for yourselves. Let us do the thinking. God put a stop clause in the Bible for that. Listen to Jesus only.
falcon. Perfectly written. An answer to my prayers.
A word aptly spoken is like apples of gold in settings of silver. – Proverbs 25:11
And what about: II. Controlling Leader/Leadership.
Frequently, near to total submission is implicitly or explicitly demanded by the leader/leadership. This is because they have "the mind of Christ," special revelation, are "God's anointed," etc.
* The leader/leadership has a special pipeline to God with no actual accountability. This gives to them a special authority and weightiness in their pronouncements, even in non-essentials.
* Scriptures like Hebrews 13:17; Psalm 105:15, etc. are used to manipulate the member and justify the leader's position. These verses are taken out of context and were never intended for leaders who are not accountable.
* The leader/leadership often determines the areas of your life that are important for you to submit in. Refusing their counsel is to be rebellious.
* The problem is that members of these aberrational groups tend to abdicate their decision making power to the group or leader.
Thank you very much for the encouragement. This really is the crux of the question, "By what Spirit are the Mormon general authorities led?" Jesus told His disciples that when the Spirit of truth came, they would be led to all truth. So I think that would be a good question for a Mormon to ask the general authorities; "Who is the Mormon Holy Spirit?"
Let me provide an answer. In Salt Lake City Mormonism there is a Holy Ghost AND a Holy Spirit. The Spirit is a force likened to electricity. The Mormon Holy Ghost is a god who became a god without having a body and progressing to god status from human form as did/do all of the other Mormon gods. Now do all of the other Mormon gods with their planets to rule also have an additional god whom they refer to as the Holy Ghost? That might be a good question for one of the apostles or the prophet to answer.
Well I know what the answer would be. It would be that such a question was not important. But I would counter that it is the most important of questions. Back to the beginning; who is the spirit of Mormonism? The Spirit of Mormonism certainly isn't the Spirit of Truth that Jesus talked about and who the disciples waited for until the day of Pentecost.
The Spirit that God the Father gave as a gift to the Church on the day of Pentecost testified to Jesus and His completed work on the cross. The spirit that leads Mormonism says that Jesus was the offspring of a union between the Mormon god the father and one of his many goddess wives. The spirit of Mormonism equates Jesus with a created being and not God incarnate. The Mormon Jesus, Bringham Young taught was conceived through a sexual union between the Mormon father god and the virgin Mary. This is actually incest when you think about it.
So when asking a Mormon authority a question we can anticipate that the authority will be led by the spirit of Mormonism and therefore the answer will be consistent with Mormon error. The unfortunate thing, from my perspective, is that these questioning Mormons have a desire to know God and be devoted to Him. But having given themselves over to a false spirit does not bring them closer to God or His truth.
This isn't the first time the Mormon Church leadership felt pestered by doctrinal questions from members. At the April 1916 General Conference Charles W. Penrose said:
"There still remains, I can tell by the letters I have alluded to, an idea among some of the people that Adam was and is the Almighty and Eternal God. He is the father of his race, of course, the great patriarch over the human family, and being begotten unto him, he is the father of us in our earthly condition, in our mortality, and stands as the primal patriarch. But God says He put him there… [T]he notion has taken hold of some of our brethren that Adam is the being that we should worship. This has been explained, I think, from this stand several times, but notwithstanding that, peculiar ideas get into people's minds, not always because they are stubborn and willful and wicked or that they desire anything that is wrong, but because it gets into their heads and it is a very hard job to get it out of their heads, like the Scotchman who asked the Lord to keep him in the right path so that he might not go 'wrong, for the Lord knew that if he once got anything into his head, it would be a mighty hard job to get it out of him.' That is the way it is with lots of our folks, not because they are all Scotchmen, however, the idea has obtained in the minds of some of the brethren and we ought to get right concerning it. I am sorry that has not been rectified long ago, because plain answers have been given to brethren and sisters who write and desire to know about it, and yet it still lingers, and contentions arise in regard to it, and there should be no contentions among the Latter-day Saints. It is all right for people to have their own views and express them, if they will do it in a proper spirit; it is all right for people to stand up for what they really believe to be true, but when this spirit of contention comes, then, as we are told in the Book of Mormon, it is of the devil. Now, if Adam, as claimed by some of our brethren, is the being that we should worship, to whom we should pray, who was that person that put Adam at the head of his race? … I want to draw a clear distinction between these individuals that we may stop this discussion that is going on to no purpose. Who is Adam? Adam is our father, certainly. He is the great father of the race, but we have had fathers that corrected us at home and we gave them reverence. Yes, that is right, but do we worship them and pray to them? Oh, no. Then why should we want to pray to Adam, who away back in the remote centuries was at the head of his race and in that sense is our father? … God help us to see and understand the truth and to avoid error! And don't let us be too strong in our feelings in regard to our opinions of matters." (Charles W. Penrose, Conference Report, April 1916, p.15. Read)
The NT book of the Bible, "The Acts of the Apostles" could also be rightly named, "The Acts of the Holy Spirit" because it's in this Book the first century Church becomes empowered to carry out the Great Commission. These first century Apostles were actual "Apostles" anointed by God. They were not a bunch of men who had come up through the leadership ranks of some structured religious organization. When someone went to an apostle with a question, the questioner could be confident that the apostle was actually inspired by God to provide an answer.
The Holy Spirit is God's gift to the Church. The Church is the mystical Body of Christ and is made up of those who are born again by the Spirit of God through faith in Jesus Christ. These "members" swear no allegiance to a particular religious brand (although they may be on the rolls of a Christian church), but are dedicated to our Lord Jesus Christ first and foremost. If they have a question, they can go to Jesus in prayer and consult God's scripture the Bible for an answer.
We read in First Corinthians chapters 12-14 how God has given "gifts" to believers in order that they may carry out works of service in His Name and also have a spiritual connection to the Almighty. Growing up to be mature believers in Christ, the Christian can claim a special relationship with Jesus that includes a particular sensitivity to God's voice and therefore follow His will in the conduct of their lives.
This is what is known as growing up spiritually and not being tossed here and there by fruitless speculation and every whim of doctrine that might come along. Knowing who God is, who the Redeemer actually is and what God's plan of salvation includes (the exercise of faith as God provides the grace) frees the believer from the tyranny of legalistic religion. The matter of ones' salvation is then settled and the believer no longer has to strive in some futile attempt to do enough works to satisfy some hopeless requirement for an empty promise.
Jeff,
There have been many, many subsets of christianity for a very long time. The fact that there have been so many movements indicates that SOMETHING is difficutl to comprehend. That there is a lack of complete unity and agreement indicates any number of things can be a point of disagreement with doctrine.
Its just that is easier to find fault with a particular centralized, organized religious body. In a disunified movement a fault in one doesn't knock down them all. For instance "Alameda Bible fellowship" has distinct teachings, advanced by Herold Camping. He claims the bible as the sole authority, and has set a rapture date of 5/21/2011. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Camping
Now when that prediction fails, it doesn't mean much to evangelical christianity because its only that particular subset of believers that has a problem. Something similiar with mormons I suppose. If only they set a particular date for an event to fail.
mormon.org is yet another place where the doctrine has been changed to placate (and convert) more people
"There always seems to be a loophole, or loopverse to evade problems with biblical predictions, prophesies etc…"
There goes the jokster again.
Give me a break. Am i supposed to accept anyone´s interpretation just because it sounds Biblical? A loopverse to to evade problems? What are you talking about?
You compare what the people are saying, with what is written in the Bible, if what the person is saying contradicts what is written, the person is wrong. Simple, really.
Now, if you want to take whoever you want as the authority for interpreting the Bible, and then claim that those that show those interpretations wrong as presenting "loopholes"… that only means you just want people to pay attention to you. Hey, look at me, i know how to take non-existing controversies out of my hat!!
The Keys he is referring to is the actual permission to use the priesthood authority in a specific capacity. For instance, all elders have the same priesthood, including the prophet. Yet your area of action is limited to your keys that are given in your calling.
For instance, even though an elder´s quorum president has the same priesthood as the prophet, he can only exercise it in the capacity of elder´s quorum president to the assigned people of his ward. He can´t exercise that authority on other wards and he can´t receive "revelation" from god for people outside his assigned area.
Another example is that of Joseph Smith receiving the Keys of the gathering of Israel, or the keys of eternal sealing.
He could not seal people one to another for eternity, even though he had the melchizedek priesthood, until Elias/Elijah came and gave him those keys… something like that, i might have gotten the names wrong, but the example is correct
Jersey Tomato said,
It does not mean that it is to hard to understand, It could be that people do not want to believe the Bible or hear the truth. Look at Homosexuals for example, The Bible is very clear about Homosexuals, yet the Homosexuals dont care what the Bible says, They want to believe what they want to believe.
Same with Athiests, The Bible is very clear, Creation testify's that a creator created the heavens and the earth, yet Athiests deny that claiming evolution. That is only to examples of people believing what they want to believe despite what scripture says.
"Its just that is easier to find fault with a particular centralized, organized religious body"
You´re completely wrong. That has nothing to do with a "particular centralized, organized religious body"
It has to do with a "particular centralized, organized religious body" that claims direct contact with god and therefore should be ready to provide answers. An organized religious body, if they don´t claim special communication privileges, has no problem if they don´t have answers – they never promised they would…
"Alameda Bible fellowship"
is not an authority over any Christian, let alone an authority on Bible interpretation.
"Now when that prediction fails"
Who has made them prophets, seer and revelators over the Christian Church? Why should i take what they say seriously?
Again you´re just: "Hey, look at me, i know how to take non-existing controversies out of my hat!!"
OK, so if i ask a bishop a difficult question the "brethren" doesn´t have the time to answer, will the Bishop´s answer be official church doctrine? Can it be taught as such? Could that answer be disputed without threat of excommunication? Would i have to believe it to be exalted as a god?
Ralph, do you consider yourself an internet mormon?
I´ve done some reading about it here :http://www.mormoninformation.com/imvscm.htm
answers i would give you when i was a mormon:
1 – In the Book of Mormon they had only the fullness of the gospel for those times, or what was determined to be known in that dispensation. This dispensation is different, and God revealed a little bit more.
2 – Jesus saved us from physical and spiritual death. Jesus paid the debt we owed to justice, and gave us the resurrection of the body freely, but eternal life with him comes with a price. That price are the new commandments Jesus gave us through Joseph.
3 – Brigham Young, as any man, also grew little by little, step by step. When he said that he probably hadn´t understood everything he was supposed to and made statements based on his understanding at the time.
All answered – now your tithing money please. See ya in the Celestial Kingdom 😛
Falcon, you nailed it.
That´s exactly why they can´t answer the most difficult questions, even though they are supposed to talk to god face-to-face.
"If Mormons want answers to their questions what they need to do first of all is ask the right questions. "
You´re 100% correct.
I´ve had someone in my family ask me, in a challenging way "if this isn´t the true church, what is the true church. this is the only true church, i assure you"
That is the mentality that there is a true "denomination", and that all others are false. The mormons have no concept of anything outside their little universe. It never crosses their mind that the Church established by Jesus isn´t any particular denomination…
How can they ask the right questions, when their "apostles and prophet" make sure to sabotage the way they think?
They would recycle them all – and then claim that´s another good fruit of mormonism.
You know it's funny. I once used my required bishop's interview to get some one-on-one question-and-answer time with my bishop. I wanted to ask him if those weird pictures in the Book of Abraham had yet been translated (you know, like by another prophet after Joseph Smith). I had a couple of other scripture questions for him too. You know what happened? A blank stare. It was as if he had 1) never ever expected to answer a Mormon doctrine question, or 2) no idea of what I was talking about at all, because he'd never had a similar desire to understand.
This last summer at the Manti pageant, the local LDS authorities arranged for the evangelicals and themselves to get together to get to know each other and each other's beliefs and concerns better. It was just like Sacrament Meeting… a man behind a podium, droning on and on off a pre-approved script, while no one else really had a chance to ask anything or have it truthfully and openly answered.
No… the general authorities giving back the responsibility to the local authorities is just as Eric has called it here…
falcon, you said, " …..these questioning Mormons have a desire to know God and be
devoted to Him. " That is a acurrate description of the Mormon people. They are striving
to serve God. They are moral, sincere decent people. When Jesus taught the people to
beware of false prophets, it was for good reason because good decent people can be
convinced by men who claim to be annointed by God and speak for Him , with the thought
subtly conveyed that in order to gain God's approval you must submit to and follow
these men as they are God's " mouthpiece " . Mormon prophets have become roadblocks,
as it were, by their adding more requirements for the people to meet in order to gain God's
approval. ww
Aaron, the doctrinal mess that one Mormon prophet ( B.Y. ) created was still causing grief to Mormon
leaders decades after his death , and as we see form the reference you provided its the Mormon
people who are to blame for believing this , not the prophet who created the doctrine ! This reminded
me of a Mormon apostle chastising the sincere Mormon people who were writing him letters in 1978
after Blacks were allowed to now hold the priesthood when past Mormon leaders said it would'nt
happen until all other peoples had received it etc. Apostle McConkie told these sincere LDS to
" repent and get in line " , i.e. submit to the " living prophet " ! Thanks be to God for the multitudes
of sincere Mormons who have traded " follow the prophet " for , follow Jesus . Heb 7:25