All You’ll Ever Need
By Andrew Peterson
The blood of Jesus, it is like the widow’s oil
It’s enough to pay the price to set you free
It can fill up every jar and every heart that ever beat
When it’s all you have it’s all you’ll ever need
The blood of Jesus, it is like the leper’s river
Running humble with a power you cannot see
Seven times go under, let the water wash you clean
Only go down in the Jordan and believe
And I need it, I need it, the closer that I grow
The more I come to know how much I need it
The blood of Jesus it is like Elijah’s fire
Falling on the altar of your faith
All the wisdom of the world could never conjure up a spark
But no power of Hell could ever quench this flame
No power of Hell could ever touch this flame
And I need it, I need it, the closer that I grow
The more I come to know how much I need the blood of Jesus
The blood of Jesus, it is like the widow’s oil
When it’s all you have it’s all you’ll ever need
Jason said
It’s a problem how?
Simple, The Bible says
It’s a problem because so many people are being lead astray by the LDS False prophets and wolves that are going after them.
Rick, good to meet you – I’m glad you’re a priesthood holder and see nothing at all wrong with that. I’m a saved Mormon who attends temple and my local ward but am also a member of the Got Questions Ministries Christian church.
You really want one of us to say, here are the steps to be saved, do A,B,and C and your saved. Then you will say, see everyone I did A,B, and C and I also am a mormon who believe’s in Joseph Smith, that I can become a God some day, I believe in the BoM Etc
Too late. Already there. So ultimately even though you guys refused to offer the living waters to one seeking, it simply didn’t matter. I was already saved. But hopefully it shows the lurkers what your real motivations are. Instead of welcoming me as a brother in Christ and rejoicing in my Roman’s Road to Salvation I was met with violent rejection. If that’s the kind of religion you want to be a part of then good on ya. I can’t find that precedent in any other Christian church.
So yes I’m a saved Christian AND I believe in the greatest prophet to ever stride the world stage: Joseph Smith. And all that comes with that.
Jason said
Jason,
Since it appears that the rapture of the Church will most likely happen soon, I suspect in my life time, and you and your LDS friends will be left behind, Here is a website you can check out.
http://www.calvaryprophecy.com/
You can watch videos of what to do after your left behind, because it will suck for you all big time.
Rick, why don’t you send that link over to all my brothers & sisters at Got Questions Ministries. I’m sure they would love to find out they are not saved as well.
Be sure and let them know that you have taken it upon yourself to take the role of Christ and sit in judgement on our salvation. I’m sure they will love to hear that.
Jason,
Like 4/5 said, You cant just read some words, and live by the teachings of a false prophet and claim your saved. If you think you are then fine, but as the Bible says, or as Jesus said, Not everyone that says, Lord, Lord will enter into heaven.
You can believe what you want, and think your saved all you want, but it’s not a matter of works as you want to believe, or you feel we are implying, it’s a matter of you have a false prophet, that is clear, your fully embrace his teachings, and dont care that the Bible says, their are false teachers and false Christs and that satan can come in the form of an angel of light to device.
Also when you say I sit and judge you and your salvation, remember, the Bible says I can inspect the fruit, and I see rotten fruit when you follow a false prophet and lead people astray from the simple truth by teaching your false gospel.
Rick,
Like 4/5 said, You cant just read some words, and live by the teachings of a false prophet and claim your saved. If you think you are then fine, but as the Bible says, or as Jesus said, Not everyone that says, Lord, Lord will enter into heaven.
Then for the THOUSANDTH TIME Rick – WHAT DID YOU DO?? Lay out the steps YOU took to obtain your salvation. Good grief. What in the WORLD are you afraid of??
And stop coming with “the bible says this and the bible says that” and “you can think you’re saved but you’re not” etc etc. Just TELL me what to do. Why all the dancing around it? Geez.
Jasonrae,
There is nothing you can do to save yourself. Jesus did everything on the cross, defeating sin, death, and Satan and rose again for our justification. His blood covers all our sin and gives us His undeserved mercy and grace granting us eternal life. Do you believe in Jesus and His work on your behalf? Then thank God that He has redeemed you and that you will be with the One true God in eternity – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as revealed in Holy Scripture – He has given you faith and eternal life.
Jasonrae,
Here is an interesting site if you are interested: http://www.tilm.org
After leaving Mormonism I was an atheist for 25 years. In 2006 I simply re-read the Bible. It’s all in there. Jesus told me what to do, and his apostles gave it definition. It’s pretty simple.
I realized,
And,
I learned,
Jesus taught,
Therefore,
Jesus also taught,
And,
After believing in Christ,
That’s about it. I go to a non-denominational church that teaches from the Bible to worship, and I joined the Salvation Army to help people.
Grindael
It is good to see that Jason has got a good and decent answer from some body. It is also good you are working out your salvation with fear and trembling.
Jasonrae
“Ok… You pointed me to a scripture verse – but you have still failed to tell me actions you personally took to obtain your salvation.”
How many times do you need to be told? Just like everyone else here, with the exception of Mormons, I followed scripture, I believed. I can’t be any clearer than that. I won’t tell you any specific steps because they are personal to me & I will not give you cause to mock. Your record in here convinces me that is exactly what will happen. Grindael has as usual been very thorough & informative so I can add nothing to his comment but what I will do is give you a few suggestions.
Read the Bible to find out WHO Christ is, I recommend Johns Gospel & Philippians, in particular Philippians 2:6 then, when you have come to an understanding of the person of Christ, commit your way to him. After this commitment do what Rick said you must do, renounce Joseph Smith as a false prophet & the Mormon Church as a false church Yes I’m well aware that’s a lot more than you read in the site you talk about but you have been & still are following false prophets & a false Christ & it’s necessary for you to do this. I hope that’s clear enough for you because I wont be telling you again.
“And how about this for unprecedented growth” &, “LDS missionary applications jump 471%”
Ever hear Winston Churchills saying? There are lies, damned lies & statistics?
The first part of your quotation, to be polite, is untrue, what Falcon told you happens to be the real growth figures & as for the second part, well, it illustrates what Churchill said about statistics very effectively. You quote a fact without qualifying it; the reason for the jump in numbers is simply that your church has recently reduced the age for missionaries thereby bringing thousands more children into the missionary fold. Incidentally, I use the term Missionary very loosely, the Elders, properly known as “children“ (Look up the definition of an Elder in the Bible) are not missionaries at all, they are salesmen for the LDS church. A missionary spreads the gospel, a Mormon missionary sells the Mormon Corporation, & when I say sell I mean exactly that, People have to pay (tithe) to be a member.
Look Jason no one is going to play your childish games. You’re an immature kid who has some growing-up to do.
Nice try Jason but what remains is that at least half of returning MM end up going in active. I believe the time-line is within five years. So I say, sign up all of the young people to be MM. Also, the Mormon church cooks the books on membership. They claim “X” number of members when in fact two-thirds are inactive. The LDS church is hemorrhaging members and you know it.
“This year, Elder Marlin Jensen, the Mormon Church’s outgoing official historian, acknowledged that members are defecting from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints “in droves” and that the pace is increasing.”
“This poses a particular dilemma for a hierarchical church that was historically isolated like no other. Church leaders can crack down and continue to see members, especially young people, leave. Or they can allow churchwide dialogue and changes relating to the church’s historical and doctrinal claims, financial dealings, proselytizing and treatment of women, skeptics and outsiders.”
Rick called you out on your game. BTW have you listed the steps that you are taking to become a god? I don’t think you have.
Jason for a guy who claims superior intelligence, you certainly aren’t very adapt at picking up on the fact that all the posters here can see right through you.
So Jason, buddy, how do you plan to become a god.
And you renounce all LDS false doctrine. Nice try. List those doctrines and the prophets who taught them. Do you know who teaches false doctrines? Well it’s false prophets.
Speaking of how the LDS church counts noses:
“The LDS Church claims that it has 12 million active members. The LDS Church counts members until they are 110 years old. Members who are excommunicated or have their membership removed are still counted among the membership of the Church. Inactive members and those who have moved on to other Churches are also still counted among the membership.”
“In all reality, Mormon membership is somewhere between 2 and 4 million, the first 2 million being Temple Worthy Tithing paying members. There are currently over 1 million members who have resigned yet are still counted as active.”
Now someone might ask what are my sources for this information. Well, following Jason’s lead I’ve decided not to provide my sources. I’ll just go with what he says, that he does a lot of reading and brings forth all of his information from his superior memory bank.
Here’s some more information from my unnamed sources. (I love saying that.)
“In 2011, the church added 309,879 members. Assuming 502 (active or inactive) members per unit, you would expect them to have also added around 617 units. But in reality they only added 124. Where are all those new members going? Apparently not to church. I suppose a member would say you can’t expect the church to generate that many units out of 300,000 brand new members. But since they’ve been reporting roughly the same influx of members annually for the last twenty years, you’d think at some point these new members would be ready to run a ward. But they’re not showing up.”
The problem is that the LDS church has way too many converts pushing the “agree” button. In-other-words, they can manipulate the convert in to the baptismal tank but they can’t get them to stick around. This is a variation on the “You can lead a horse to water……” saying.
I’ll have to look it up, but there was a MM program in some country where basically they were getting kids to take a swim and counting it as a baptism.
Let’s face it, getting someone to push the “agree” button isn’t much of a method for getting folks to become disciples of Jesus Christ.
Some folks believe in a “historical Jesus” but they aren’t saved. Others throw a prayer up occasionally when in trouble but that’s not saving faith. Even the devil testified to who Jesus is (see Gardadine Demonic), but would anyone claim salvation for the devil?
The Mormon church has a lot of button pushers but few stick around.
hi,
I am new to this site. I have been following it for awhile and decided to post today. I am an ex mormon and Orthodox Christian.
Grindael, I loved your last post.
Jason, I think people have given you the answer given by Christ time and time again. If you are looking for a place that is going to give you step by step procedures for salvation than you won’t find that here. Salvation is between you and the true God. The outline you are looking for is right where you are, the LDS Church, only problem is, it is a false outline. The people here are not out to hate on Mormons. They are only trying to point you to the true nature of God.
I might get some disagreement with what I am about to say. I can make no statement on anyone’s salvation. I really don’t know. I suspect there are people that I think are saved but aren’t and some people that I might not think they are but are. I believe even some Mormons are saved. I don’t believe the route given by the LDS Church leads to Salvation. But I believe as a Mormon I was saved. My loyalty was always to Christ. My view of Christ was skewed because of the LDS Church but my heart was always for him, even with an incomplete knowledge of his nature. The reason I left is because I came to the knowledge the the LDS Church wasn’t what I was taught and I wanted to worship and know and teach my children an untarnished view of God. I want to give my kids the complete uncorrupted picture of Him. I don’t think God holds it against me that I was deceived by the LDS Church. I think He always knew my heart was for Him and still is.
So Jason, I can’t give you a list of things to do. It doesn’t come from clicking a button on a screen. Your salvation comes from Christ freely, but can only be excepted from a sincere heart. If you sincerely accept Christ’s atonement than who am I to say God doesn’t save you. But what you need to realize is that your Church teaches that I am not saved. Salvation is deliverance from sin and its consequences. Any other “kingdom” that is not life with God is not Salvation, no matter how the LDS church wants to spin it. Resurrection without life with God is not Salvation because I am not completely delivered if I am not with God. LDS church teaches that salvation is not through Christ alone but through the LDS Church. LDS Church doctrine leads to you needing Joseph Smith as much as you need Christ. without your supposed restored gospel, you have nothing, no hope. according to LDS, without the restored gospel through Joseph Smith, Christ died in vain. He is as much a key player in the LDS gospel as Christ. If you sincerely read your Bible with new eyes, you will see that this is not what Christ teaches. This is not His gospel. He is the only way to the Father. mormons tell me they believe that all the time, but the truth is you don’t really believe Christ is all you need if you think some ordinances given to you by Joseph Smith are going to bring you to God and no one else that doesn’t accept them. Your Church teaches that all the Christians in the world that love and serve Christ daily are not saved. LDS Church teaches that they can never be with God because they didn’t accept Joseph Smith as a prophet. All the nice people on this site are trying to do is tell you Christ is all you need. You and Him know if you are saved, but you can only know through Him. That might sound too easy, in many ways it is, but once you accept his gift, your life changes completely. That is why it isn’t so easy. BEcause this new life that has been created within you changes you in such a way that you are only living for Christ. Works will pour out of you as scripture says. The new life in Christ is not an easy one, but it is a blessed one.
Falcon, if you want to live in your fantasy-land of made up numbers then that’s your business. Any church that increases missionary applications by nearly 500% is showing strong signs of a vibrant, active, engaged and growing faith.
58 NEW missions are being created in 2013 just to accommodate this massive influx of new missionaries, 17 of those in the US.
Have you heard of the The Gospel Coalition Falcon? This is part of their official statement:
“We are a fellowship of evangelical churches deeply committed to renewing our faith in the gospel of Christ and to reforming our ministry practices to conform fully to the Scriptures.” (thegospelcoalition .org)
Here’s what they say in a 2012 article: “6 Reasons Why Mormons Are Beating Evangelicals in Church Growth”
Our churches face a demographic crisis.
Young people are leaving, even the Southern Baptist Convention is losing members, and when you drill down deeper—comparing church attendance with population growth—the picture looks even more bleak. Simply put, when America’s fastest-growing religious segment is “nonreligious,” we have a problem.
But one religious group shows consistent growth year by year and decade by decade. Mormons, living in the same country and culture as evangelicals, keep growing their church. Why? I propose six reasons.
And then he goes on to give six very excellent reasons why. Do a search on the article title and you will find it. You’ll find it. You’ll read it for yourself. And you’ll say it’s a lie.
And this from Charisma News (a Christian magazine): “Mormon Church Set to Become World’s Largest”
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS), better known as the Mormon church, is on track to become the largest both in the United States and in the world at large
Contrary to popular belief, Koltko-Rivera reports that more than 90 percent of Mormon growth is the result of the baptisms of converts—not the baptisms of children raised in the faith. Mormon missionary work has a major effect on Mormon growth.
Koltko-Rivera—who has taught more than a dozen statistics courses at NYU—found that Mormon growth slowed after 1990 because the LDS church expanded its missionary efforts into many new areas where missionary work was more difficult, such as the former Soviet Bloc nations, and other countries in Asia and Africa. However, several of these countries now show huge LDS growth. Specifically, Russia saw an 83 percent increase in Mormon membership from the end of 1999 through 2009.
Koltko-Rivera also found that the slowdown of Mormon growth is about to end. A combination of factors—a forthcoming increase in missionary numbers; improvements in missionary preparation; the recent formation of Mormon “stakes” (dioceses) in places like Russia and India—has set the stage for major Mormon expansion worldwide.
Again, search the title and you can read the article – from a mainstream Christian source.
People leave the church EVERY day Falcon. Who cares? That’s been going on since inception and will never change. I just don’t see why you think that is such a big deal. Folks are leaving the general body of Christianity as well.
I remember asking my mother, who was a devout and dedicated Catholic, the classic question: “Suppose you died today and were standing before Jesus and he were to ask you, ‘Why should I let you into my heaven?’, what would you say? My mother replied, “I’d tell Jesus because of what He had done for me.” My mother knew in her spirit what the path to salvation is.
In reality we can’t do anything to merit eternal life. The key word here is “merit”. God grants us eternal life on the basis of saving faith. Jesus merited eternal life for us by being our substitute on the cross.
The Bible is clear regarding the pathway to salvation. The Apostle Paul wrote in Ephesians 2:8-9, “For by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works that no one should boast.”
I know we get a large number of “hits” on MC everyday from Mormons who are seeking answers. We have former Mormons who post here who discuss their path out of Mormonism into faith in Jesus Christ. Ephesians 2:8-9 is a definitive statement regarding what God has revealed about obtaining eternal life.
I find it amazing that so many Mormons don’t know that the Mormon god and the God of the Bible are not the same. Also that the Mormon Jesus and the Jesus of the Bible are totally different. Learning that fact is a break-through moment for a Mormon. Because they realize that Mormonism is a false religious system with no resemblance to the Biblical revelation.
Coming to a realization of who Jesus is and what He has done is that big “Ah-HA!” moment for a Mormon. It leads them out of the dead religious system of Mormonism and into the light of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.
Falcon,
You have absolutely zero authority to tell Got Questions Ministries that my One Click salvation is bogus or not real. ZERO. I did exactly as they said, the welcome pack is on the way and as much you want to convince everyone I’m not saved it’s too late.
You can call them and complain but they would probably think you’re part of some kooky Christian cult with a overtly Mormon fixation.
Besides being a saved Christian (and LDS) helps me understand my creedal brothers a lot better. As a saved Christian I totally grok where you’re coming from now while remaining an ardent unshakable believer in the Restoration.
jasonrae
I’ve been waiting several hours for my previous post to be accepted so until that happens I’ll leave with you the latter part of what I said. Please read it & discover the difference between truth & propoganda.
“And how about this for unprecedented growth” &, “LDS missionary applications jump 471%”
Ever hear Winston Churchills saying? There are lies, damned lies & statistics?
The first part of your quotation, to be polite, is untrue, what Falcon told you happens to be the real growth figures & as for the second part, well, it illustrates what Churchill said about statistics very effectively. You quote a fact without qualifying it; the reason for the jump in numbers is simply that your church has recently reduced the age for missionaries thereby bringing thousands more children into the missionary fold. Incidentally, I use the term Missionary very loosely, the Elders, properly known as “children“ (Look up the definition of an Elder in the Bible) are not missionaries at all, they are salesmen for the LDS church. A missionary spreads the gospel, a Mormon missionary sells the Mormon Corporation, & when I say sell I mean exactly that, People have to pay (tithe) to be a member.
As I’ve said several times before, you cherry pick your sources in order to disguise the truth.
Ps. your arguments are a joke, I remember seeing better ones in a MOnty Python sketch.
Old Man, my Creedal brother.
First, I think we as Christians should focus more on our own faith rather than other organizations like the Mormons. We have one message of salvation for ALL people right? Well, that’s what we should share with everyone including them. Just wanted to get that out there.
However, since you insist on being up in the business of the LDS (a group you are not a part of) I will tell you that yes I am fully aware of the reasons for the increase in our missionary application numbers. I was there when the historic world-changing decree was announced. It’s only the single largest cultural impact in my lifetime. To think you would think I wouldn’t know that – sheesh.
My earlier statement still stands: we have an extremely vibrant, active, engaged and growing faith. The numbers clearly show that and are actually unprecedented and a far cry from Falcon’s dead, dying and anemic claims. Informed folks now know to ignore Falcon and his ‘calculator’.
jason rae
“Again, search the title and you can read the article – from a mainstream Christian source”
You have to be joking! a mainstream Christian source that supports Benny Hinn? Quoting from that source shows once again that you have no grasp of Christianity. If that’s the best you can do you might as well give up & go home. As for the Gospel coalition, did you read any of the article apart from the little you quoted from? The writer simply says that the Mormon church show consistent growth, so what if he did? He’s quoting from Mormon sources! Finally I suggest that you take a look at the growth figures for the seventh day adventists, they beat you by a country mile in terms of growth
jasonrae
“I will tell you that yes I am fully aware of the reasons for the increase in our missionary application numbers”
In that case why did you use those figures to distort the facts, you attempted to give the impression that those extra missionaries were an indication of growth when in fact they were not.?The increase was due to orders being handed down from your leaders.
If you can’t be honest then you may as well leave.
Ps. are you going to reply to my other comments?
Old Man, so in your book, when missionary applications jump 471 percent regardless of the reason that’s not sign of a vibrant, active, engaged faith among our membership?? Really? That was my core point.
And bravo to the seventh Day Adventists – I applaud their growth. More power to them. Honestly I expect more from my Christian brothers. Looks like I have lot educating to do.
jasonrae
Once again you ignore & distort what is being said, my point which, unlike you, I made very clear, was that you used those figues to create a false impression. Further to the point, will you now tell the people in here that your salesmen figures are high, not because those kids do it from desire but because they will be ostracized if they dont apply. Dont bother denying that because it came from a salesman who tried to convert me, he knew what awaited him if he didn’t comply. Those kids you send off to foreign lands ill prepared for anything that comes their way, are used & abused by your church & if they complain, well, heaven help them.
My contempt for that evil corporation you are a part of is beginning to get to me so I’ll leave it that for now.
By the way, don’t even think about educating me, I’ve forgotten more about reality than you will ever know.
Our Buddy Jason writes:
“You have absolutely zero authority to tell Got Questions Ministries that my One Click salvation is bogus or not real. ZERO. I did exactly as they said, the welcome pack is on the way and as much you want to convince everyone I’m not saved it’s too late.”
Jason, every time you post something here, your childishness and immaturity are exposed. Please keep it up. I enjoy watching you make a fool of yourself.
You have a habit, as do all Mormons who show up here, to insinuate that we have said or implied something that we haven’t. Does the website that granted you eternal life have the “authority” to grant you (eternal life)? What a great question. Does this website provide a statement of faith? If so you need to tell us if you agree with that statement of faith.
BTW Jason, what does a person have to do to become a god. I keep asking but as usual you won’t answer my question.
Also, I guess I’ve won the argument regarding the fact that the LDS is losing members at an alarming rate.
Perhaps they could increase membership if they created a website that would allow people to be counted as a Mormon if the press the “agree” button.
I am impressed that you have concluded that the website you have joined has “authority”. I know that’s big in the Mormon church. So you have agreed that this group has authority. Do they have a living prophet? Must have. You are widening your horizons and expanding your beliefs.
It won’t be long now until you’ve tendered your resignation to the LDS church.
Just a reminder to Jason, when are you going to answer the points that Falcon, myself & others have raised, it’s quite striking how quiet you become when your arguments are shot down in flames.
Grindael
Gee, thanks Clyde. Christians believe salvation is a free gift… Therefore you are not required to do the works of the law … But… The Spirit changes you so that you want to do “good works”. That is why Jesus said,
Anyone born of the Spirit takes these things seriously. But the Spirit dictates to the individual what they must do. There are no “requirements”, only that you do what the Spirit leads you to do. The act of any man making “rules” for another man works against the Spirit of God. As Paul eloquently explained,
Paul again,
Jesus,
We are back to the beginning.
So then, Mormons are not “Christians”, and only an “organization”?
Bravo.
LOL. Of course a Mormon would think so. http://www.christianpost.com/news/2011-church-membership-southern-baptists-decline-cults-growing-48984/
Here are the raw numbers:
SBC declined 0.42% = 16.1 million members X 0.0042 = 67,620 people. So SBC is still at roughly 16.1 million.
Mormons grew 1.42% = 6.1 million members X 0.0142 = 86,620. So Mormons are still at roughly 6.1 million members.
The changes here are not that dramatic except when you look at the percentages. Even if the SBC had flat growth and the Mormons grew at 3%, they would be nowhere close to catching up.
But, let’s do apples-to-apples because headlines always compare Mormons to Evangelicals.
According to the World Christian Encyclopedia, churches in the Evangelical tradition (broader than just SBC) growth was fairly consistent at 0.85% p.a. Great Commission Christians (the WCE’s indicator which is a little closer to what we mean when we say little-e “evangelical” vs big-E Evangelical/mainline traditions) was 1.19%. Marginal groups, on the other hand, averaged 1.21%. It looks like the Marginals are winning, right? No: because what you don’t see is the huge numbers involved, compared to the relatively tiny 6 million Mormon population.
Operation World has similar numbers although its definition of “Evangelical” is a little different (and probably closer to what most of my readers think of “Evangelical”).
Evangelicals in OW are 91 million, and like the WCE, it estimates their growth rate is 0.8%:
0.8% is about half of 1.42%. However–
91 million X 0.8% = 728,000 people per year.
That is NEARLY 10X as fast as Mormons are managing in terms of REAL PEOPLE being added.
Even faster growing are the 62.7 million Pentecostals, who are achieving a growth rate of 2.4% per year: that’s an additional 1.5 million mew members per year.
Mormons may be growing faster than Southern Baptists right now, but they are not growing faster than the Evangelical tradition. While Evangelicals still make up a minority of the United States, they are over 15X larger than the Mormon community, and very likely to remain that way.
People like David French at the Gospel Coalition can cry doom and gloom, but the fact is, he is only doing this for attention to galvanize his base. And that same author who praises the Mormons is part of a group that calls them a cult.
Jason, I still didn’t see a specific renouncement of Adam-God, only a renouncement of false doctrine in abstract, general principle. Do you specifically renounce Adam-God?
Old Man,
Further to the point, will you now tell the people in here that your salesmen figures are high, not because those kids do it from desire but because they will be ostracized if they dont apply.
Amazing how you paint some bizarre LDS dystopia picture but what you cite is simply fiction. Sure, there are *some* who are pressured to serve a mission but what culture is free of that kind of behavior?? The overwhelming majority of youth in the church go out of a genuine desire to serve. That is MY direct experience not only for myself but nearly all of my friends as well.
To think otherwise means 1) you are not involved at the low levels to see the actual truth and 2) Falcon must have loaned you his darkside calculator of doom. When you two get to adding numbers on that thing who knows what you’re going to cook up. Just a bunch of fantasy numbers so that you feel like your religious career has meaning I guess.
Falcon,
BTW Jason, what does a person have to do to become a god. I keep asking but as usual you won’t answer my question.
I think I’ve said multiple times, list the steps you took to obtain your salvation clearly and plainly and then I would tell you. No need to write a book like Grindael and certainly don’t just point to a scripture verse like Old Man – just list the steps. Capiche?
Jaxi, nice to meet you. I’m LDS and a saved Christian. Newly minted but still 100% saved via the Roman’s Road One Click Salvation from Got Questions Ministries.
Jason,
I am so excited for you. I just went out on the website where you gained you push button salvation and found their statement of faith. Here’s the link for all to look quickly but I’ll post the most critical aspects of what they believe. You know Jason, by pushing the button you have “agreed” with this statement of faith.
http://www.gotquestions.org/faith.html
Here we go. I am so pumped!
Section 2: God
We believe in one God, who is Creator of all (Deuteronomy 6:4; Colossians 1:16), who has revealed Himself in three distinct Persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (2 Corinthians 13:14), yet who is one in being, essence, and glory (John 10:30). God is eternal (Psalm 90:2), infinite (1 Timothy 1:17), and sovereign (Psalm 93:1). God is omniscient (Psalm 139:1-6), omnipresent (Psalm 139:7-13), omnipotent (Revelation 19:6), and unchanging (Malachi 3:6). God is holy (Isaiah 6:3), just (Deuteronomy 32:4), and righteous (Exodus 9:27). God is love (1 John 4:8), gracious (Ephesians 2:8), merciful (1 Peter 1:3), and good (Romans 8:28).
Jesus
We believe in the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. He is God incarnate, God in human form, the expressed image of the Father, who, without ceasing to be God, became man in order that He might demonstrate who God is and provide the means of salvation for humanity (Matthew 1:21; John 1:18; Colossians 1:15).
We believe that Jesus Christ was conceived of the Holy Spirit and was born of the virgin Mary; that He is truly fully God and truly fully man; that He lived a perfect, sinless life; that all His teachings are true (Isaiah 14; Matthew 1:23). We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died on the cross for all humanity (1 John 2:2) as a substitutionary sacrifice (Isaiah 53:5-6). We hold that His death is sufficient to provide salvation for all who receive Him as Savior (John 1:12; Acts 16:31); that our justification is grounded in the shedding of His blood (Romans 5:9; Ephesians 1:17); and that it is attested by His literal, physical resurrection from the dead (Matthew 28:6; 1 Peter 1:3).
We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ ascended to Heaven in His glorified body (Acts 1:9-10) and is now seated at the right hand of God as our High Priest and Advocate (Romans 8:34; Hebrews 7:25).
Section 7: Salvation
We believe that salvation is a gift of God’s grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross (Ephesians 2:8-9). Christ’s death fully accomplished justification through faith and redemption from sin. Christ died in our place (Romans 5:8-9) and bore our sins in His own body (1 Peter 2:24).
We believe salvation is received by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. Good works and obedience are results of salvation, not requirements for salvation. Due to the greatness, sufficiency, and perfection of Christ’s sacrifice, all those who have truly received Christ as Savior are eternally secure in salvation, kept by God’s power, secured and sealed in Christ forever (John 6:37-40; 10:27-30; Romans 8:1, 38-39; Ephesians 1:13-14; 1 Peter 1:5; Jude 24). Just as salvation cannot be earned by good works, neither does it need good works to be maintained or sustained. Good works and changed lives are the inevitable results of salvation (James 2).
Jason has agreed to all of this. Letter of resignation to the LDS church to follow!
Falcon,
The Roman’s Road One Click Salvation was simply that – salvation in accepting Christ – not their statement of faith. In fact, the welcome kit will state that I simply need to find a local Christian church to attend. So no the Button Click had nothing to do with their particular statement of faith. And since I already attend a local Christian LDS ward I just stay where I am. See how that works?
Aaron, renouncing ALL false doctrines should cover that IF it’s a false doctrine. Like Rick trying to get me renounce Joseph by name I don’t think the bible says I need to renounce each and every false doctrine by name.
.
For all your “intelligence” Jason, you might want to look up what a book is.
Jason,
I’m stating for the record here and now, You are either the most ignorant mormon ever to come on this blog, or your the biggest lair and most deceptive. I am going with the biggest liar and here is why.
You Jason said to me,
Sadly Jason, You have ignored almost every question Me, Aaron, Falcon and others have asked of you, so if you refuse to answer questions, or ignore them like we never asked them, then that makes you a lair since you claimed your the smartest person on this blog. If your so smart, why is it so hard to answer questions?
Jason then says to me,
Really Jason, I want to add works? This now makes the second time I am asking you, what works do I want to add to you? You said I said that, so now back up what you said, If you cannot back it up then that means you lied since I never said what you claim.
Jason said
Lets see here, First off we never denied you any living waters, we told you want you must do to be saved, you rejected what we said and tried turning it into a formula, We were clear, the Bible says believe in/on Jesus and you will be saved. Anyone can go back and re-read what was said and see we told you that, so that makes you a liar. Then you claim you cannot find that kind of precedent found in any other religion. So here this shows your either ignorant of what your church teaches and believes, or you know what they teach and ignore it and wont talk about it, in that case it makes you a liar. Your BoM teaches their are only two Churchs, the TRUE church and the church of the Devil, So since I dont believe what you believe, I am by default part of the church of the devil. Thats pretty harsh and Violent dont you think?
Now Jason, Mormons claim they use the Bible and LOVE the Bible, But yet what you guys never mention to people is, You believe the Bible is not translated correctly and cannot be trusted, and then you went onto say to me,
You mean the Bible says this,
But yet despite this you want nothing to do with the Bible? I have never meet a christian that has ever said to me, Dont tell me what the Bible says.
Here again Jason you said
Now here is another case of, either you ignorant or a liar. Here is why? Are you aware your prophets said and taught this
And this
So Jason, Either you know your Church teaches this and you never mention it, and by leaving it out shows deception because you are aware of it and by leaving it out on purpose means you want someone to believe something by not giving all the facts, or you are ignorant because you did not knwo you church taught this.
Now you said,
No Jason we dont, again, you either know this and are lying, or you feel we do showing your ignorant, Here is some things your church teaches that we as Bible believing Christians dont believe.
Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God and JS taught
Too bad Jason,
but by clicking that button you have agreed to what that site states as their statement of faith. You can’t start back-peddling claiming you didn’t know. What did you expect a Christian website to have as it’s core beliefs. You my friend are in deep trouble. I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes. To make a commitment like that and then start playing games is mocking God.
You, my friend, are a mocker and a blasphemer. You should have known better before you started playing your childish little games. This is what else you should have checked out before you joined up with this group.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Mormons-Christians.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/Mormons.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/book-of-Mormon.html
Jason you are a little too clever by half and you have been exposed as the phoney you are. No getting out of this one son.
Jason,
Your game is up but it seems you’re the only one who hasn’t gotten the message.
The fact is that if you pushed the “agree” button, you were agreeing with the statement of faith that supported your invitation to receive Christ.
It’s obvious you are not a very serious person but some kid who has gotten bored playing video games.
You also should have taken a look at what that site says about Mormonism. Not good Jason. I wish I knew who your bishop is. I’d give him a heads up on what you’ve been up to. I don’t think he’d be too amused with you agreeing with a website that takes Mormonism to task as a false religion.
You’ve agreed now with every basic doctrine of Christianity and have rejected Mormonism.
Nice going Ace!
I think a couple notes from Scripture could add to the themes on this thread – God often uses a remnant and God always has a remnant:
1) God often uses a remnant – so God’s not so into numbers; He is about real. So the size or growth rate and not things God cares about. He has given us His law and gospel and God desires that we faithfully preach and teach Christ crucified for our sins and raised for our justification. I see no problem with challenging LDS claims on growth, but even if they were growing gang busters and couldn’t build temples and ward buildings fast enough it would be meaningless.
2) God always has a remnant. No need for a restoration – God ALWAYS has a faithful remnant – Jesus said His Church would never cease and it hasn’t. Simple but true. There’s no need for Joseph Smith’s supposed restoration because Jesus did a good job establishing His Church and promised it would not fail.
4/5
I get what you’re saying but Mormons are into numbers as if it’s a testimony of God blessing them with growth. It’s also a back-handed way of them trying to connect growth, false as it is, with truth, as false as it is in Mormonism.
My guess is that one of the reasons that the alarm bells are going off in SLC is because the reduction in membership is going to hit the bottom line of LDS Inc. pretty hard. My guess is that the next generation of Mormon leaders will tweak the program significantly. There’s only a small number of people who would be attracted to all the Mormon hocus pocus and demands on their time, energy and of course money.
Let’s face it, it takes some significant coin to be a temple Mormon, relatively speaking. No Mormon gets to the god level of the multi-level marketing plan of the LDS religion without going full bore. Few will be interested in doing it.
Falcon, more nonsense. The Roman’s Road to Salvation is non-denominational. Seriously. YOU should know this stuff. It’s not rocket science. The salvation prayer (as listed on their site) has ZERO to do with their statement of faith or the doctrinal slants of the pastor. Zero. Continue if you want but you’re playing game you’ve already lost.
4five, NO ONE brought up numbers until Falcon did. He’s the one out touting with his calculator of doom. I simply responded.
God always has a remnant. No need for a restoration – God ALWAYS has a faithful remnant – Jesus said His Church would never cease and it hasn’t. Simple but true.
Considering the Bible wasn’t translated into English for over one THOUSAND six hundred years and by that time was out of the hands of the Jews – who was the remnant?
Falcon,
I understand why it’s important to challenge unsubstantiated and ridiculous claims (i.e. Mormonism is to become a world religion with a gazillion adherants – more than Christianity and Islam combined! – okay… but do the Mormons ever have a long way to go…) But I wanted to challenge the underlying premise – growth equals blessing. Growth can also mean you are appealing to people with a false message that makes people feel motivated and good – but doesn’t convict of sin and bring people to repentance and faith in Christ. So to further my claim that growth does not equal blessing or truth, I am not joining Islam – or Seventh Day Adventism for that matter – based on growth rates or adherant numbers. The Mormon meme of growth equals truth is false.
Jason,
The remnant was the believers saved by Jesus – who knew His sacrifice for their sins and had the gift of faith for the forgiveness of sins. They understood Christ’s sacrifice for their sins and as they took communion, they believed in the atonement. It’s the same today – the remnant that understands Christ’s sacrifice and believes and trusts that His sacrifice is sufficient for them and understands they have been baptised into Christ and washed clean because of His blood shed for them. They are part of the invisible Church – the Church of the redeemed.
4five, even the Reformation leaders claimed no authority to act in God’s name and for a “faithful remnant” to have any validity we need that authority. Without it you *may* just be making up whatever doctrine you want. So can anyone else.
So in that spirit, what covenant did God have with the gentiles to keep His authority chain unbroken? Where did He plainly state a transfer of power and authority from the Jews to the gentiles? Can you cite specific scripture and verse?
As well you have another obstacle to mount: by the time Paul comes on the scene he’s spending considerable time fighting heresy cropping up pretty much everywhere. And much later the councils and the creeds were outgrowths of absolute and total doctrinal confusion. Where do you think “of one undivided substance” comes from? It’s NOWHERE to be found in the Bible. It IS un-biblical. Yet – I assume you embrace it. And that is where we part ways. And where the remnant line fails.
Anyone who believed in Christ. And there were a lot of them. God did not forsake his bride, and they did not forsake him.
All authority was given to Jesus. He gave that authority to the world thorough his disciples and the Holy Spirit.
It is found in the Bible. It is found here:
“Fullness” is pleroma πλήρωμα in the Greek, and it means the totality of the divine powers. God is one God. Jesus in his bodily form was the fullness of the Godhead. That is why he is the head over EVERY power and authority. And he gave this authority to his disciples on earth along with his Holy Spirit. He never left his bride. Ever.
Jason,
It’s obvious to everyone here that you’ve lost your little boy game. Your defense is that it’s “nondenominational”. You really are low information friend. You know absolutely nothing about the common core doctrinal beliefs of Christianity. Man are you weak. You signed on to a set of beliefs that govern Christianity by pushing your “agree” button. A ten year old kid could go on that website and determine that the folks that run this ministry are orthodox in the Christian beliefs. Not only that, but they take Mormonism apart false doctrine by false doctrine. By pushing the “agree” button you not only give tacit approval to what is taught on this site, but you have “agreed” with and endorsed it. Man are you a total fool. You’ve been caught in a trap of your own making through your incredible ignorance and pride.
I wonder what your bishop would say about your mocking and bearing false witness.
My guess is he’d pull your ticket right now.
Cont for Jason,
Your Church also teaches,
And this
And this
And
Joseph F Smith feels this is of major importance. If it is then how can we know what is correct and what is false if no one can seem to get things straight. If salvation is of major importance then how come the Bible teaches we must call upon the name of the Lord to be saved, no works needed, look at the jailer in Acts. Then no mention of all the works needed to be saved in the book of Mormon, yet Mormonism teaches we must obey all the laws to be saved.
And
In that section there J.F.S. states eternal life is the same as exaltation and no works expect belief are mentioned. But in an earlier post from the same book he stated not half the LDS will be saved. If belief as he states is all that is needed then you could be lead to believe LDS don’t believe.
So Jason, You refuse to renounce JS By Name, but you again show your a liar or ignorant, I suspect Liar, You claim to renounce all false teaching, but embrace a false prophet, You refuse, and simply cannot answer How you can claim to be saved, yet preach a different gospel, so in light of Gal 1:8-9 you teach another gospel but cannot answer how you can do that and also be saved? You also are no brother of Mine, no matter how much you say it you simply are not, this again shows you do not know your Bible since you reject this,
You bring a false Gospel and I cannot and will not call you brother.
So Jason,
Your excuse is that the website is “nondenominational”? Man are you weak. If you were a pitcher you’d get pulled after a third of an inning and sent to the showers.
This site is very up front and transparent regarding their foundational core beliefs. All you have to do is click on their statement of faith. There’s no bait and switch here as is practiced in the LDS church when they are courting prospects to sign on to their program.
The core beliefs expressed in their statement of faith are those of basic orthodox Christianity. They also take Mormonism apart and demonstrate why it’s a false religion and not Christian.
The Bible tells us that he who digs a pit will fall into it. You, buddy, are in the pit and we’re not going to let you out of it. Everyone here knows that you are a mocker, a deceiver and a bearer of false witness.
You need to either recant the false commitment you made or suffer the consequences.
The website that Jason has been mocking says this about Christian apologetics.
Question: “What is Christian apologetics?”
Answer: The English word “apology” comes from a Greek word which basically means “to give a defense.” Christian apologetics, then, is the science of giving a defense of the Christian faith. There are many skeptics who doubt the existence of God and/or attack belief in the God of the Bible. There are many critics who attack the inspiration and inerrancy of the Bible. There are many false teachers who promote false doctrines and deny the key truths of the Christian faith. The mission of Christian apologetics is to combat these movements and instead promote the Christian God and Christian truth.
The last two sentences are the key. This site combats false teachers, false doctrines and those that deny the key truths of the Christian faith. This site seeks to combat such movements and promote the “Christian God” and “Christian truth”.
So I ask, what in the world is Jason doing “agreeing” with the folks on this site and their mission when he professes a faith in Mormonism?
The mission of this group is to present folks who are trapped in groups like the Mormons the truth and lead them to a saving knowledge of God and Jesus Christ.
Why would someone go on a site like this, “agree” with what they are doing and send for literature?
If Jason doesn’t “agree” then what’s his game? He’s being deceptive which is a polite way of saying he’s a liar, a mocker and a bearer of false witness.
I wasn’t allowed to post this last night as I had exceeded a limit I was unaware of, I was informed that the limit was 6 comments, which surprised me as others had 8 postings accepted on the same day. Anyway, be that as it may, I’ll post my response to Jason again. The debate will have moved on so it will be a little out of date. Before doing that I’ll say hi & welcome to Jaxi, I couldn’t do it last night due to the above. As you all know I’m fairly new here & am still finding my feet.
jasonrae
“Amazing how you paint some bizarre LDS dystopia picture but what you cite is simply fiction.
I didn’t paint a picture, I described one part of your organization & for your information I don’t engage in fiction.
Sure, there are *some* who are pressured to serve a mission”
Some? More dissembling as we’ve come to expect of you Jason, anything that will deflect criticism. All missionaries have to apply, to use your words, so by using the word in that context you are being deliberately misleading. Almost from birth Mormons are taught that they must, as the words of a popular LDS hymn declare, “follow the prophet” in other words they are expected to follow whatever the current doctrine might be. Mormons are raised to believe that they must serve on a mission, & I repeat, if they refuse they are ostracized. You know this! If that’s not pressure then I don’t know what is! The entire Mormon corporation is based upon obedience to the leader & your so called missionary work is no exception. It is an obligation not a choice; It’s a case of do what you are told or risk losing your eternal family, & by the way, that idea in itself is utter bunk as the concept of a “forever family” makes no sense whatsoever. Compare that scenario if you will with the Christian way. To do missionary work a man is personally called by God, not by any man. That kind of calling does not involve the use of children en masse to spread the Gospel. If as you no doubt believe God calls missionaries in your church, why is the conversion rate so abysmally low? Perhaps your god doesn’t know what he’s doing.
“What culture is free of that kind of behaviour,”
We’re talking about your church not a culture. There is NO CHRISTIAN CHURCH on this Earth that expects young people to act as salesmen for multi billion dollar corporations & before I forget, what on earth is this LDS Christian church you mentioned? That’s a contradiction in terms & once again you betray your ignorance of Christianity.
“No need to write a book like Grindael and certainly don’t just point to a scripture verse like Old Man – just list the steps. Capiche?”
You can’t help yourself can you? Why the constant need to twist what people say? Yes of course I pointed to verses in the Bible as any Christian would; I also went to great lengths to explain what I was talking about in the futile hope that you might understand. You were very careful to omit that weren’t you Jason? If you must lie about the things I say go elsewhere & do it. By the way, why use urban slang rather than English to demonstrate your superiority? Why not just say, “do you understand”
So be careful Jason, your desire to sound clever betrays your age.