‘After All You Can Do’ to Screw Up Your Life

All You’ll Ever Need
By Andrew Peterson

The blood of Jesus, it is like the widow’s oil
It’s enough to pay the price to set you free
It can fill up every jar and every heart that ever beat
When it’s all you have it’s all you’ll ever need

The blood of Jesus, it is like the leper’s river
Running humble with a power you cannot see
Seven times go under, let the water wash you clean
Only go down in the Jordan and believe

And I need it, I need it, the closer that I grow
The more I come to know how much I need it

The blood of Jesus it is like Elijah’s fire
Falling on the altar of your faith
All the wisdom of the world could never conjure up a spark
But no power of Hell could ever quench this flame
No power of Hell could ever touch this flame

And I need it, I need it, the closer that I grow
The more I come to know how much I need the blood of Jesus

The blood of Jesus, it is like the widow’s oil
When it’s all you have it’s all you’ll ever need

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162 Responses to ‘After All You Can Do’ to Screw Up Your Life

  1. jasonrae says:

    Falcon & Rick,

    So let’s say, for sake of argument, that I was wrong on some doctrinal point like the visit of Christ to ancient America – we could rightly classify that as ‘erroneous thinking’ – IF I were wrong on that, you guys are saying that the atonement of Jesus Christ FAILS because of it.

    According to you two scholars the atonement of the Son of God cannot overcome such a massive obstacle. Murderers can be forgiven, pedophiles, serial killers, Heinrich Himmler organizer of the Nazi death camps (millions dead), Pol Pot, Khmer Rouge death-bed repentance business and on and on – the atonement of Jesus Christ can allow these [insert curse word here] a place with God for eternity.

    But now I come along. Jason Rae. Ardent LDS. I do the exact same thing MILLIONS of Christians have done before me. The non-denominational Roman’s Road to Salvation (One Click version) and suddenly the atonement of Jesus Christ is halted in it’s tracks. It’s over. ALL of heaven breaks down. Suddenly – the atonement has NO MORE POWER TO SAVE.

    It’s really interesting that you are spending so much effort to DENY my salvation but the reality is if you deny it then there is NO WAY that you can believe your own salvation. It’s just not possible.

    I assure you, this is VERY educational for a lot of people reading this.

    The mark of a true Christian would say “that’s between you and God” and leave it at that. You guys have some deep soul searching to do. Probably Old Man as well but he’s not anywhere near as rabid as you two.

    Ultimately you just have to deal with it. I’m LDS and a saved Christian and there’s nothing you can do about it.

  2. jasonrae says:

    Grindael, the Restoration was about authority. So the way I read the statement from 4five was: (my additions in bold/italic)

    God always has a remnant. No need for a restoration of authority – God ALWAYS has a faithful remnant with authority – Jesus said His Church would never cease and it hasn’t. Simple but true.

    But if the church Jesus established never ceased then the authority never ceased as well. So where was this “faithful remnant” that passed the authority on to the gentiles? Just having a gentile pick up the bible circa 1600 didn’t suddenly confer authority on him to officially act in God’s name regardless of how much he believed in the atonement and work of Christ.

    Next, since you want to hang so much on it, what proof do have that there was indeed “always a faithful remnant”? You have more than a thousand year gap there to fill – so.. is there an official pedigree chart that I’m not aware of or is this all on faith and the word of you and 4five?

  3. Old man says:

    Jasonrae

    I dont think you’ve understood anything of what has been said, no one is claiming that a man like Hitler can be saved by saying “I believe” but you can’t be. What is being said & you really must make an effort to understand this, “I believe” has to be accompanied by an aknowledgement of the person of Christ & what He has done, followed by true repentance. You cannot say you have become a Christian because you went online & within the space of a few mouse clicks you were saved! It doesn’t work that way. Where is the repentance? you still insist on following a deception, you still follow a false prophet so how can you claim to follow Christ? Please try to understand this before making any more fatuous comments

  4. Old man says:

    jasonrae

    Addendum
    Make up your mind about who you wish to follow & end all this arguing, let it be Christ or Joseph Smith because you certainly can’t follow both.

  5. Kate says:

    I love it when Mormons bring up the Nazi madmen and murderers. In Mormonism you can’t be forgiven for murder ( D&C 42:18) yet just read the IGI and see just how many of these murderers and Nazi mad men have had their temple work done by Mormons. A lot of the Nazi madmen have mysteriously disappeared from the index but even Hitler’s proxy work was done and more than once. Murderers such as Ted Bundy was done and also John D Lee (scapegoat of the Mountain Meadows Massacre) was done even though he had been excommunicated from the church for the horrible event and labeled a murderer. What else can you expect from a cult who does proxy work for Jesus and seals him to Mary Magdelena??? Even Mary mother of Jesus has had her work done and it says that she had another husband…..God the Father. Such craziness! Mormons obviously believe that murderers and Nazi madmen CAN be saved. More proof that Mormons don’t know their own doctrines.

  6. jasonrae says:

    You cannot say you have become a Christian because you went online & within the space of a few mouse clicks you were saved! It doesn’t work that way. Where is the repentance?

    Old Man, for some, repentance could be a tremendous amount of work. So are you agreeing that salvation in many cases requires significant work and effort?

    You ask me: “Where is the repentance?” – I do recall asking you multiple times to lay out the steps to salvation exactly as you did it but I got nothing.

    You also said on a prior thread about John “He believed, because that’s all God asked him to do.” NO mention of repentance.

    Old Man, with so much contradiction from you why don’t you just lay out the steps you took to obtain your salvation and let’s be done with it?

  7. Old man says:

    Jasonrae

    You still don’t get it, I’ve lost count of the number of times I explained it to you. You continuously go back to something I said 3000 comments ago & 3000 times I explained it to you. Yes I did say, “He believed, because that’s all God asked him to do.” & I told you exactly what that meant, at one point you actually accepted what I told you. Now you turn it all on its head again. I’m tired of explaining the obvious to you, If you’re too lazy to read the Bible or too arrogant to ask God for an understanding of what’s found within its pages don’t come to me demanding answers

    “Old Man, for some, repentance could be a tremendous amount of work. So are you agreeing that salvation in many cases requires significant work and effort?”
    In no way do I agree with you, repentance does in no way correspond to work True repentance is the cry of a broken man, a man crying out for God & knowing deep in his heart, his mind & his spirit just how worthless he is. It saddens me to have to say this but you don’t even understand what true repentance is. True repentance is very different to that practised in the Mormon corporation or by the Catholic church.

    “Old Man, with so much contradiction from you why don’t you just lay out the steps you took to obtain your salvation and let’s be done with it?”
    I have said nothing contradictory, the fact that you are incapable of understanding what is said to you shows only that & nothing else. Don’t lay the blame for your lack of understanding at my door.

    Time after time you have been shown that your arguments are deceptive, fatuous & dissembling but still you come back for more, perhaps it’s time you realised that your defence of the indefensible is doing that evil corporation more harm than good.

  8. falcon says:

    Jason,
    I’m feeling kind of bad for you but I guess someone has to be the bearer of bad news. I’ve been interacting with the website that you believe had the authority to grant you your salvation and it appears they’ve pulled your ticket.
    “……. nowhere do we say that a person is saved or becomes a Christian by clicking on our button. A person is saved by truly believing in the true Jesus Christ – something a Mormon cannot do.”

    Shea – GotQuestions.org

    What a total bummer Jason! Here you thought you’d gamed the system and the folks who you believed had the authority to grant you eternal life are now rescinding what you thought they had granted you.
    I wouldn’t say they’ve thrown you under the bus but they certainly have thrown you off the bus.
    Try another website with another button. Perhaps that one will work!

  9. jasonrae says:

    Such craziness! Mormons obviously believe that murderers and Nazi madmen CAN be saved. More proof that Mormons don’t know their own doctrines.

    Kate, anyone can submit names for temple work and they come in in very large numbers. However submitting work for Hitler or Ted Bundy does ZERO for their state in the after life. It’s no different than if Hitler had been baptized a Christian as a child and then went on to Nazi terror – the baptism would have been nullified.

    There are *some* Christians though that think that once saved you can’t lose that salvation. So for them had Hitler been saved as a child he would be with God right now. You may not fall into that camp, but many do.

  10. jasonrae says:

    Here you thought you’d gamed the system and the folks who you believed had the authority to grant you eternal life are now rescinding what you thought they had granted you.

    Falcon, please. Just face it. You got checkmated many many posts ago. Your king is horizontal on the board. And here you are still moving pieces around, backtracking moves wondering how it happened etc. BUT it did happen and you’re playing a losing game. They or SHEA didn’t grant the salvation in the first place – so how can they take it away? Sorry pal but not going to work.

    The Roman’s Road to Salvation (One Click Version) is FULLY independent of any organization – their Website was simply the conduit of the salvation message.

    It is incredible that I have to explain this. When someone is saved in the Christian world they can either find a church they are “comfortable” with or they can remain nondenominational.

    Checkmate.

  11. falcon says:

    Sorry Jason,
    Everyone on this site has been eating your lunch. You’re not even a very worthy adversary. The site that granted you your salvation says that as a Mormon, with your Mormon beliefs, you don’t qualify as a Christian and hence your pushing of the button was fraud.
    Your telling us:
    “When someone is saved in the Christian world they can either find a church they are “comfortable” with or they can remain nondenominational.”
    Who came up with that rule? You really are low information. I’ve scored about ten TDs in a row on you and my arm is getting tired spiking the ball.
    Nope, you got your salvation rescinded and there’s nothing you can do about it until you admit your fraud and repent. That organization was pretty plain on where you stand. So dry your tears and quite sobbing and face it. You’ve been bested, again.

  12. jasonrae says:

    Falcon, you truly are a lost sold. Got Questions Ministries has a page specifically for Mormons to be saved.

    At the end of that page for Mormons they have a One Click option as well.

    Have you placed your full trust in Jesus Christ as your Savior because of what you have read here? If so, please click on the

    “I have accepted Christ today” button below.

    Not a single line in the prayer asking to renounce Joseph Smith or the BoM etc. Nothing.

    Maybe Shea was a low-level type there? And didn’t realize they had a page specially for Mormons? But doesn’t matter anyway – I’ve already follow the Roman’s Road version.

    Maybe you should have checked into that before wasting time with “Shea”. You can all the “TDs” you want but when you’re getting consistently Nagasakied it doesn’t really matter.

  13. Old man says:

    jasonrae

    I have no idea if you read my previous post in which I answered your comments on, among other things, repentance. If you did you very conviently ignored it so I’ll just paste a little of it along with my closing comment.
    “True repentance is the cry of a broken man, a man crying out for God & knowing deep in his heart, his mind & his spirit just how worthless he is. It saddens me to have to say this but you don’t even understand what true repentance is”
    & my conclusion………
    “Time after time you have been shown that your arguments are deceptive, fatuous & dissembling but still you come back for more, perhaps it’s time you realised that your defence of the indefensible is doing that evil corporation more harm than good.”

    Far from strengthening your case, your arrogance, your lies, your deception & the way you twist evidence to suit your pre conceived ideas, actually destroys it & only serves to demonstrate your need of true repentance.

  14. Rick B says:

    Jason, Even though I left a long reply to you, their is another part, but it has been in Mod jail since early this morning, So keep an eye out for it, once it gets posted it will be back in the group a ways.

  15. falcon says:

    Wrong again Jason.
    You’re not getting any support from that ministry. The representative, Shea, has turned you out. They’ve disavowed you and your low-level con. It’s documented. You’re the only one who hasn’t the insight to realize that your game has been exposed. So continue to make a fool of yourself.

  16. jasonrae says:

    Falcon, guess what came in the mail today. Just brought it in. In the envelope were:

    1. A letter from the Got Questions Staff
    2. Two cards with their info
    3. A welcome brochure

    The welcome brochure says:

    I’ve put my faith in Jesus… NOW WHAT?

    Congratulations! You have made a life-changing decision! Perhaps you are asking “Now what? How do I begin my journey with God? …”
    The five steps mentioned inside will give you direction from the Bible…

    And then they list 5 steps for getting started. Guess what step number two is Falcon? Any guesses? Here it is for your perusal:

    FIND A GOOD CHURCH THAT TEACHES THE BIBLE
    Don’t think of the church as a building. The church is the people…. etc etc

    Exactly as I said would happen. It was more than obvious at the time I followed the Roman’s Road to Salvation (One Click Version) that I was NOT joining their church. I mean seriously Falcon, they’re in CO. Get a grip.

    The salvation walk is independent of their org just as the welcome brochure proves. If you need to see it scanned I’m more than glad to do that and send it to you.

    For now though I will display it prominently in my office as evidence for all that I’m both ardent faithful LDS and a saved Christian.

    Rick, will look for your other post.

  17. jasonrae says:

    Rick,

    I appreciate your *somewhat* long-winded post – but as an ardent LDS believer and a saved Christian you are kinda preaching to the choir you know. You can save your posts and your typing for other LDS.

    I however can speak for both sides. Which, I think, gives me a distinct advantage. So if you need any LDS info, just ask me. And if you need any general Christian info I’m your man.

    Let’s just say I consider myself an authority in both now. And a little advice to you and Falcon: you both need to shape up a bit when it comes to sharing the exact steps you took to obtain your salvation.

    I asked you both pointedly. You danced around it a little but Falcon hasn’t said a word. As a brother, I’m concerned about that kid. Maybe he’ll open up more as he gets older.

  18. grindael says:

    Ok Jason,

    We all get that you are calling yourself a Christian now. Yawn.

  19. grindael says:

    Adolf Hitler was “baptized” on September 4, 1993, “endowed” on October 12, 1993, and “sealed” to his parents and also Eva Braun on June 14, 1994 in the Los Angeles Temple. The June 14 sealing of Hitler and Braun is the same sealing of which Roberts sent copies to McAreavy and Ashton. These entries could once be found in the IGI (International Genealogical Index) . They have since been deleted, along with other entries for prominent Nazis.

  20. grindael says:

    for some, repentance could be a tremendous amount of work. So are you agreeing that salvation in many cases requires significant work and effort?

    Of course it can. But here is where the Mormon Church goes wrong. You don’t need anyone to make RULES for you, and you can’t EARN it by doing them. The Holy Spirit tells you what to do with the help of God’s word. The road to Salvation is different for each person. God knows people’s hearts. He knows who His people are. He draws them to Him.

    What don’t you get about this?

  21. grindael says:

    So if you need any LDS info, just ask me. And if you need any general Christian info I’m your man.

    So far, you’ve provided little of anything.

    So why would anyone go to you for info? There is a whole line of Mormon “apostles” and “prophets” who have told us everything about Mormonism. They claim they have the “authority” to reveal what they do. Why would anyone want to get information from you Jason, who has no authority to declare any doctrines or interpret them. How can anyone here even know you really are a Mormon? If you used the same process you did to become a Christian (snidely and flippantly), I’m sure anyone reading anything you say won’t take your claiming to be a Mormon seriously either.

  22. jasonrae says:

    Grindael, I think the message is that if you TRULY want to convert LDS just have them do what I did. Why spend hours and hours and hours on Joseph Smith, BoM, Christ in America, Adam God, and on and on when all they really have to do is say the prayer, click the button and done? I mean, honestly, if that’s truly the salvation you believed in – it’s all you would teach and let the chips fall where they may.

    If you TRULY have the ONLY way to salvation it would be your ONLY message. And you know that. But it’s not what you teach – instead of being focused on the salvation message you claim to have and offering it the end goal as we learned SO clearly is the rejection of Joseph Smith. NOT the acceptance of Jesus Christ. This played out on the board in plain view of everyone and in the full light of day.

    Clarity is a good thing isn’t it Grindael? Beautiful clarity. Clarity that your true hope is the rejection of Joseph Smith not the acceptance of Jesus Christ.

    You saw how violently the board rejected my salvation. Rick was up in arms, Kate was yelling, Old Man said it wasn’t possible and Falcon even contacted Got Questions Ministries to have them “take away” my salvation. Though he failed miserably.

    And, the boards rejection of my salvation has ZERO to do with my “attitude” – I mean we’re not dealing with a bunch of babies here – you guys are adults and can hold your own right? Right. So it’s nothing to do with my attitude but rather has everything to do with the the fact that I’m a saved Christian AND I still sustain, promote, love and revere the prophet Joseph Smith. And always will.

    Becoming a saved Christian took less than two minutes. So, what do you have to offer the informed LDS? Nothing. So you many want to find yourself a new religious career because offering a 2 minute salvation to an LDS members who’s lives are filled to the brim with the love of God, Christ, family and country is a bit on the shallow side. It’s the height of low-info to think you’ve got something seriously on the table to offer.

    I guess though it’s just a bunch of busy work for you guys. Kinda the way we give the 3 year old’s Cheerios in sacrament to keep them occupied.

  23. Kate says:

    jason,
    Please show me where I was yelling or where I have engaged you in conversation? Didn’t I tell you that I’m not interested in the likes of you? I have commented generically to the board in general, but not specifically to you. You are a bratty child and I’m surprised that you haven’t been banned from this board already. Speaking of BORED, that’s all I am while reading your posts. You have said the SAME thing over and over for DAYS! Could this be any more boring?? Either show some intelligence or go find another sand box to play in. I was LDS for 40 years, just about everyone I know are LDS and please believe me when I say that none of them would be impressed with your behavior here. I don’t think your leaders would be impressed either. Do us all a favor and grow up.

  24. jasonrae says:

    Grindael, one more thing: one should spend their lives promoting what they are FOR not what they are against. Take a look at my Website (click my username) – laser focused on Joseph Smith, The Book of Mormon and general Restoration topics. What a joke it would be if all I talked about was other religions or religious ideas I take issue with. There may be a thousand things I’m against in the world. But why give them any energy?? Or my valuable time? Would be such a colossal waste. But to each their own.

    Kate, I have ZERO concern for what your LDS friends would think of my “behavior” here. I mean ZERO. If you’re bored with my posts you can always read Falcon – his are quite entertaining.

  25. Old man says:

    jasonrae

    Is that the best you can do Jason I must confess to being rather disappointed, here I was thinking that you might come up with some pearl of wisdom to enlighten us but instead we get another ill thought out rant that takes up a lot of space saying exactly nothing. Take, as an example, what you have done with Grindaels comments, you make no attempt whatsoever to debate the issues or to answer the points that he makes, instead you take his comment totally out of context, you then distort it in yoir mind far beyond what was originally said & then, lo & behold, you reintroduce it with a totally different meaning as your defence. That’s a typical ploy by decievers in general & Mormons in particular.
    You know nothing about Christianity, you have no idea what being a Christian means, all you have is contempt & mockery for Gods word & for His Church. One day you will have to give account of youself Jason. think long & carefully before you mock again.

  26. jasonrae says:

    Kate, since you asked “Please show me where I was yelling or where I have engaged you in conversation? “

    You engaged me directly here:

    jasonrae,
    You are barking up the wrong tree kiddo. I have absolutely no desire to converse with a demanding, foot stomping, tantrum throwing, belligerent child. You show clearly from your posts that you could care less what Christians believe and from what I’ve seen you don’t answer questions, are mean spirited and a waste of my time. Unlike other Christians on this board, patience is NOT one of my virtues. Something I may need to work on but not with you.

    That was your response to my very simple request for you to “kindly tell me exactly what YOU did to obtain your salvation” . And by the way that request is still open. Enlighten the board and share your message of salvation.

    On the new current post about atheists Falcon says:

    “My concern for folks is their immortal souls.”

    But yet you saw how much effort and work he put into ensuring that salvation for my immortal soul was quickly revoked. Falcon spent night and day scheming how he could ensure that I did NOT have salvation. Hours engaged in that very effort. Contacted the ministry and being a general busy-body in rejecting saving grace for me. Rick wrote post after post that he would not accept me as a brother in Christ and on and on.

    You left the restored gospel for this? SMH.

  27. Kate says:

    jason,
    That comment to you was not engaging you at all. It was my refusal to engage with you. You said that I yelled while rejecting your Salvation which is simply not true. Maybe you could stop assuming and actually read what is posted. You show your ignorance and lack of comprehension with every post.
    My comment about your behavior and what your leaders and other Mormons would think of it wasn’t actually for your benefit, it was to show the other posters here and anyone lurking that Mormons don’t usually act this childish.

  28. jasonrae says:

    Old Man,

    “True repentance is the cry of a broken man, a man crying out for God & knowing deep in his heart, his mind & his spirit just how worthless he is. It saddens me to have to say this but you don’t even understand what true repentance is”

    Repentance also encompasses making restitution where necessary. If you steal you must make up for it etc. You get the idea I’m sure. So for some folks the road to salvation may require a lot of work and effort. You can’t say: “God forgive me for stealing my neighbors iPad” and then expect forgiveness and salvation until you actually return the iPad – and that requires effort.

  29. Old man says:

    jasonrae

    “Repentance also encompasses making restitution where necessary. If you steal you must make up for it etc.”
    Restitution as you call it naturally follows repentance, I felt no need to explain something that should be obvious to any thinking person, Repentance doesn’t need additional explanations. Those who know Christ know exactly what I mean. I guess you don’t know Him as much as you would have us believe.

    “You get the idea I’m sure”
    Your condescending attitude is becoming a little tiring Jason, how long will it take before you realise that you do yourself & the corporation you represent no favours at all. Every deceptive & arrogant word that spews out of your mouth is an indication of who controls your heart & mind.
    Here’s a clue, it’s not Christ.

    By the way, I have been on your site, but for the life of me I don’t know why you invite Christians to visit it. It’s nothing more than a propaganda exercise designed to bolster the faith of members of your corporation. As for it being a site where something can be learned, well, at that it’s an abject failure & merely a place where your fantasies & made up stories can be displayed to all & sundry.

    One last thing, if you think you are capable of defending that nefarious organization then why don’t you do that? You come in here demanding that we prove ourselves to you, you mock & attack our beliefs, & at the same time show us that you are incapable of providing any coherent explanation of your own beliefs! Who on earth do you think you are? Don’t walk into a Christian site & expect your words to mean something! Prove to us that you have something real to offer. People in here don’t believe in your fairy stories.

  30. 4fivesolas says:

    Jasonrae, have you made restitution for every sin you have ever commited? No? Then quit posting on here and get busy earning your eternal life. One thing, as long as you think you are earning forgiveness and eternal.life you never will. Jesus already perfectly fulfilled the law in your place, and was the sacrificial lamb for your sins. Even repentance is a gracious gift of God. You can do nothing to save yourself. Nothing.

  31. jasonrae says:

    4five, we actually agree with you that salvation is free. In fact our salvation worldview is actually more liberal than mainstream Christianity. Except for a very few we believe everyone will be resurrected to some degree of significant glory – that covers more than 99.999% of all people that has ever lived.

    Mainstream Christianity has pretty much condemned more than 80% of everyone that’s ever lived to an eternity of torture in the heavenly torture camps. The rest, the ones that are ‘saved’ worship God unending in a socialist-style construct with little if any self-will.

    “What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods” –Thomas Paine

    Salvation is free but for exaltation there are specific requirements and efforts to be made. But even there the grace of God is absolutely required. “It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” (2 Nephi. 25:23)

  32. 4fivesolas says:

    Jasonrae, earning that exaltation is going to take even longer. In fact, earning your god status takes longer than eternity, longer than you have. In fact Scripture says there is only one true God, none were formed before Him or after Him. Exaltation is based on erroneous unscriptural teaching. God has promised us eternal life and forgiveness of sins through Jesus death and resurrection. And what an amazing freeing gift that is – Jesus has called me His own and given me eternal life. I trust His promises to be true reliable promises.

  33. grindael says:

    Grindael, I think the message is that if you TRULY want to convert LDS just have them do what I did. Why spend hours and hours and hours on Joseph Smith, BoM, Christ in America, Adam God, and on and on when all they really have to do is say the prayer, click the button and done? I mean, honestly, if that’s truly the salvation you believed in – it’s all you would teach and let the chips fall where they may.

    Jason,

    You know in your heart that it’s not just “one click and done” and I’ve shown you from the scriptures that Christians don’t believe that. You are reading into that website what you want to see, not what is really there. There is of course the matter of sincerity, and then study, prayer, and seeking the Holy Spirit, as I showed you above. All of that is just left out by you, as is the entire process outlined by Jesus and his apostles.

    If you TRULY have the ONLY way to salvation it would be your ONLY message. And you know that. But it’s not what you teach – instead of being focused on the salvation message you claim to have and offering it the end goal as we learned SO clearly is the rejection of Joseph Smith. NOT the acceptance of Jesus Christ. This played out on the board in plain view of everyone and in the full light of day.

    I gave you my experience. You didn’t even comment on it (except for snidely saying it was book length – a whopper if I ever heard one) and so didn’t deserve your scrutiny I guess. Anyone who reads the Bible and understands what it says would reject Jo Smith and Mormonism. He and his organization are a long way from what it really teaches. What you did with that website was just a stunt, and everyone here (along with yourself knows it). It wouldn’t do much good to preach Jesus to you, you’ve made that perfectly clear with everything you’ve said.

    Clarity is a good thing isn’t it Grindael? Beautiful clarity. Clarity that your true hope is therejection of Joseph Smith not the acceptance of Jesus Christ.

    More bitter blather.

    You saw how violently the board rejected my salvation. Rick was up in arms, Kate was yelling, Old Man said it wasn’t possible and Falcon even contacted Got Questions Ministries to have them “take away” my salvation. Though he failed miserably.

    The board rejected your CLAIM to Christian salvation because it is obvious it wasn’t sincere and you don’t believe in the Christian God. Your adherence to Smith as a “prophet” and belief in Adam-god proves it.

    And, the boards rejection of my salvation has ZERO to do with my “attitude” – I mean we’re not dealing with a bunch of babies here – you guys are adults and can hold your own right? Right. So it’s nothing to do with my attitude but rather has everything to do with the the fact that I’m a saved Christian AND I still sustain, promote, love and revere the prophet Joseph Smith. And always will.

    You can claim to be anything you want Jason, but putting Christian and Jo Smith in the same sentence is an oxymoron.

    Becoming a saved Christian took less than two minutes. So, what do you have to offer the informed LDS? Nothing. So you many want to find yourself a new religious career because offering a 2 minute salvation to an LDS members who’s lives are filled to the brim with the love of God, Christ, family and country is a bit on the shallow side. It’s the height of low-info to think you’ve got something seriously on the table to offer.

    You are not a saved Christian, because you are insincere and don’t believe in the Christian God and believe the BOM fiction. And there are many “informed” Mormons that have left the Church. Steve Benson is a good example of this. Tal Bachman, The Tanners, myself and many, many others show that you don’t know what you are talking about. You have chosen to believe in someone that was a con artist, morally bankrupt, and who thought that a picture of the fertility god MIN was God the Father sitting on his throne.
    You may call such things “low-info”, but it is only your way of deceiving yourself and patting yourself on the back for showing us that you know all about these things and have still decided to believe the lie, and then scorn those that look on Jo with horror at what he really was when they learn the church has deceived them. That won’t deter us, and you can rant and rave all you want and it won’t change a thing, and we will keep chipping away at the lie until all that are left are those who are like you, full of bitterness and hate for anyone who doesn’t agree with your version of historical Mormonism and will hold on for dear life to any stupid made up piece of evidence to support it.

    I guess though it’s just a bunch of busy work for you guys. Kinda the way we give the 3 year old’s Cheerios in sacrament to keep them occupied.

    What it is Jason, is that you are worried and angry that we ARE reaching Mormons. You can’t stand it. You can’t stand the fact that we know all about Jo and his lies. And when we, like the apostle Paul, Peter, and Jesus call out your false prophet, you foam at the mouth in bitter hatred for those that do so. You offer nothing. No rebuttal to evidence, just retreaded “evidence” that the desperate cling to because they have nothing else to prove the reality of Jo and his fantasy world of the Nephites.

    Grindael, one more thing: one should spend their lives promoting what they are FOR not what they are against. Take a look at my Website (click my username) – laser focused on Joseph Smith, The Book of Mormon and general Restoration topics.

    You are just like every other Mormon who runs into critics. Have you seen the backlog of comments in Moderation? That is because I’m busy doing other things. This is a stupid argument. You forget what an impact your cult may have had on the lives of people that have left it, and that they don’t want to leave their family and friends behind, and because of that experience it is natural for them to do what they do.
    I’ve seen your website. It looks like something produced by a teenager. Just a bunch of links to news stories and a few graphics. Maybe you should spend some time there, instead of acting like a fool here.

    What a joke it would be if all I talked about was other religions or religious ideas I take issue with. There may be a thousand things I’m against in the world. But why give them any energy?? Or my valuable time? Would be such a colossal waste. But to each their own.

    Sure thing Jason. Tell that to investigators who dedicate their lives to catching murderers, or people who spend their lives fighting against injustice, or a “thousand” other “things”. You don’t see the value in anything that might help someone else, but “to each their own” I guess. Don’t want to waste your valuable time and energy. The whole concept of Mormonism was because Jo Smith “took issue” with Christianity. He didn’t like it. He didn’t want it. So he made up a fantasy that God told him it was wrong in contradiction to everything the Bible says.
    And if your time is so valuable, then why are you even here? If we are only appealing to “low-information” Mormons that you, the GREAT Jason, wouldn’t waste your time on, then why be here at all? Why waste your “valuable” time?

    Maybe because you are bitter, jealous, and can’t stand that we are indeed making an impact.

  34. Rick B says:

    Jason said that if I have any questions I can ask them, Thats about all I can do Is ask them since Jason is not able to answer them. I have asked many questions to which Jason has answered none of them.

    Then Jason says . In fact our salvation worldview is actually more liberal than mainstream Christianity. Except for a very few we believe everyone will be resurrected to some degree of significant glory – that covers more than 99.999% of all people that has ever lived.

    So you again show you dont really believe the Bible and dont believe God. Both the Bible and God said that the way to destruction is Broad and many go their, and the way to life is narrow and few are there that find it. Then the Bible in many places state who will go to hell and why. So you can say your saved and cry when we say your not, but your only fooling yourself since your clearly dont know or believe the Bible.

  35. jasonrae says:

    You are not a saved Christian, because you are insincere and don’t believe in the Christian God and believe the BOM fiction. And there are many “informed” Mormons that have left the Church. Steve Benson is a good example of this. Tal Bachman, The Tanners, myself and many, many others show that you don’t know what you are talking about.

    Grindael, first off you have NO way of knowing my sincerity. Zero. It’s impossible for you to make the claim. Same goes for Falcon, Rick, Old Man or anyone. And like I told Falcon, if you reject or deny my Roman’s Road to Salvation experience – you logically reject your own – or at least would have to have doubts about your own.

    I’ve known many many Christians and I know exactly how the salvation process works. The Roman’s Road to Salvation is nothing new – millions of Christians have used it to become ‘saved’. If they can do it I can do it. Simple as that.

    My uncle was pastor at a Bible Christian church in the South – I attended many times at a very early age. So I know for a fact the Ev salvation process can be fast and happen in a moment since I’ve seen it first hand. As well the One Click Salvation process is real – otherwise Got Questions Ministries wouldn’t offer it. And they wouldn’t bother sending me the welcome packet.

    But the real bottom line is it’s not your call. You can’t make the judgement. As well you have nothing but your opinion on Joseph Smith and BoM. We already established on other threads that you cannot prove it a fraud. Took a long time but I think it finally got through.

    Really? The Tanners? Tal Bachman? Steve Benson. Wow. NO ONE cares. And I mean no one. This is not a popularity contest Grindael.

    Half the membership could quit tomorrow – *yawn* – easier to find a pew on Sunday mornings. It just wouldn’t mean a thing.

  36. jasonrae says:

    Jasonrae, earning that exaltation is going to take even longer. In fact, earning your god status takes longer than eternity, longer than you have.

    4five, discovering how God came to be God is the chief purpose of being here. If you miss that I’m sure the afterlife will still be all that you expect and more.

  37. grindael says:

    Half the membership could quit tomorrow – *yawn* – easier to find a pew on Sunday mornings. It just wouldn’t mean a thing.

    Like I said, You’re not a Christian.

  38. grindael says:

    Grindael, first off you have NO way of knowing my sincerity. Zero. It’s impossible for you to make the claim. Same goes for Falcon, Rick, Old Man or anyone. And like I told Falcon, if you reject or deny my Roman’s Road to Salvation experience – you logically reject your own – or at least would have to have doubts about your own.

    Yes I do, by what you wrote here on this blog. (For instance the comment above). I have no doubts about my own because it’s my OWN, given to me by God. Everyone is different therefore salvation is different for everyone. But you are a phony who can’t even be consistent in the things you say, therefore I reject your sincerity.

    Really? The Tanners? Tal Bachman? Steve Benson. Wow. NO ONE cares. And I mean no one. This is not a popularity contest Grindael.

    So you think all of these people are POPULAR? LOL. Read my comment with some comprehension, if you are capable.

    My uncle was pastor at a Bible Christian church in the South – I attended many times at a very early age. So I know for a fact the Ev salvation process can be fast and happen in a moment since I’ve seen it first hand. As well the One Click Salvation process is real – otherwise Got Questions Ministries wouldn’t offer it. And they wouldn’t bother sending me the welcome packet.

    And I bet they weren’t claiming to follow Jo Smith after they went through their process. And you believe everything that someone offers just because they offer it? Ok. I’m sure they send EVERYONE the welcome packet. An offer is an offer, it doesn’t do anyone a bit of good without sincerity, which you lack.

    But the real bottom line is it’s not your call. You can’t make the judgement. As well you have nothing but your opinion on Joseph Smith and BoM. We already established on other threads that you cannot prove it a fraud. Took a long time but I think it finally got through.

    Calling you insincere is my call. It’s proven by what you’ve written. And it’s a FACT my friend, that Jo Smith called an ithyphallic God with an erect penis the Father of Jesus Christ (sitting on his throne). (And that’s just ONE example). This makes Jo Smith a false prophet, and it’s a fact that the BOM is 19th century fiction because it is filled with anachronisms and plagiarism. You didn’t “establish” anything. You tucked your tail and left those threads because you had no rebuttal for the mountains of evidence that proved that all your “evidence” was nothing but low information speculation.

    I’ve known many many Christians and I know exactly how the salvation process works. The Roman’s Road to Salvation is nothing new – millions of Christians have used it to become ‘saved’. If they can do it I can do it. Simple as that.

    Keep deceiving yourself. You’re good at it.

  39. Mike R says:

    From claiming to be an authority in Mormon and Christian info , and now Jason testifies that
    it does’nt mean a thing to him if half of his Church members leave ? Wow , that’s cold .
    I’ve had friends leave our church from time to time and it has hurt me deeply . Maybe though
    if I was more of an authority intellectual wise I could have successfully exchanged those feelings
    with something else such as a cold heart and a yawn . On second thought I’ll stay a low info type
    with compassion rather than be a information authority with a case of the yawns towards my
    former church members .

  40. jasonrae says:

    Grindael,

    FOR THE THOUSANDTH TIME – YOU have NO way of KNOWING. Is this kind of like your so called ‘proof’ for the miracles in the Bible? It took a thousand posts to finally get across to Rick that NO ONE in the world has proof for the miracles. Good grief man. Give it a rest.

    You CANNOT make a judgement call on anyone’s salvation. Just nonsense. What’s done is done. You guys have done nothing but fight it from from the get-go but like I told Falcon – you’re fighting a battle you’ve already lost. So you have to assume the best and leave it with God.

    Mike R,

    People leave the church every day. I don’t sit around wringing my hands over it – it’s called free agency. If someone close to me leaves that’s different. You guys are good at drumming up things that don’t exist: phantom biblical ‘proof’, my ‘cold’ feelings, being able to determine if someone is saved and who knows what else.

  41. Rick B says:

    Jason said

    Grindael, first off you have NO way of knowing my sincerity. Zero. It’s impossible for you to make the claim. Same goes for Falcon, Rick, Old Man or anyone. And like I told Falcon, if you reject or deny my Roman’s Road to Salvation experience – you logically reject your own – or at least would have to have doubts about your own.

    I’ve known many many Christians and I know exactly how the salvation process works. The Roman’s Road to Salvation is nothing new – millions of Christians have used it to become ‘saved’. If they can do it I can do it. Simple as that.

    Jason, Here is the Problem that you simply cannot handle or answer, I say Cannot because I have pointed it out many, many times and you never even attempt to try and answer me.

    If you believe you can follow a false prophet and his false teachings and in the same breath claim your saved, then please explain what Paul said in Gal 1:8-9?

    Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

    Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

    Lets see here, Paul says If any one even an angel from Heaven preaches another gospel let them be accursed. Well the angel Moroni who at first was called the angel Nephi gave another gospel to JS. You guys are not bothered by the fact that JS cannot even remember which angel gave him another gospel, then as Falcon has asked a million times, Show me Mormonism in the Bible or early teachings of the Church. Cant be done.

    Then as I pointed out in the Gospel of John,

    2John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

    2John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:

    2John 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

    You have another Gospel, and many mormons on this blog have been honest enough to say they have a different gospel.

    Then The Bible says

    Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

    Now according to this verse, if these People will never enter heaven, then explain How JS did or will if he is a false prophet? Or how people will who believe his false teachings?

    Lastly the Bible says this

    Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

    Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

    Now I dont care if you view this verse as applying only to the Book of Revelation or the entire Bible, Either way, JS changed verses from almost every book of the Bible even the Book of Revelation. And JS claims GOD COMMANDED him to do so. First off this goes against what God said in the book of Revelation, and second, if JS did change the book(s), which he did, then he is cursed as this verse teaches, so how do you believe he or you are saved according to these verses? Simply put, you are NOT.

    Also even Jesus said, Not everyone who says LORD, LORD is saved, and he said these people even claim to have done good works like casting out demons, healing people or feeding the poor, etc. So despite doing these good works in His name and your not saved or he claims not to know you, then your not saved.

  42. grindael says:

    FOR THE THOUSANDTH TIME – YOU have NO way of KNOWING. Is this kind of like your so called ‘proof’ for the miracles in the Bible? It took a thousand posts to finally get across to Rick that NO ONE in the world has proof for the miracles. Good grief man. Give it a rest.

    You CANNOT make a judgement call on anyone’s salvation. Just nonsense. What’s done is done. You guys have done nothing but fight it from from the get-go but like I told Falcon – you’re fighting a battle you’ve already lost. So you have to assume the best and leave it with God.

    I didn’t say there was “proof” for the miracles in the Bible. Again, you are not comprehending what I’m writing. (no surprise there). You made that up like you made up being a Christian. I said you are not sincere. You are not. I’ve deduced that from your writing. I don’t have to assume the best. I’m going by the facts, and the fact is, you are insincere, and therefore not a Christian. And again, you exaggerate and show that you can’t stick to the facts – “for the THOUSANDTH TIME” really? What was it, four or five times you’ve been harping on this to me? Get a grip man, and write what’s real. You have a real problem with writing the truth, more evidence that you can’t be trusted. Now, a THOUSAND posts to Rick would be something that is book length.

  43. grindael says:

    Rick,

    Are you surprised? More evidence he is not a Christian and never was. I can see it now, If Jason had been there when Jesus told the parable of the lost sheep he would have yawned and said, so what, I didn’t know them, why are you so worked up about it, they have their free agency, big deal – stop wasting my valuable time with these useless parables. I don’t think he’s even a real Mormon. I think he just believes the parts that are convenient for him. He would be a lousy home teacher. He’ll never make it to the CK. Can ‘t do the work.

  44. Rick B says:

    Grindael said
    Rick,
    Are you surprised?

    Not one Bit, Here is the problem for Jason, JS said, a man cannot be saved in ignorance, and the Bible says ALL liars will have their place in the lake of fire. So either way it is lose/lose for Jason. Either he is ignorant since he cannot answer the questions asked of Him, and according to his false prophet, he cannot be saved. Or he understands and is lying to us, but then as the Bible says he will end up in the lake of fire.

  45. jasonrae says:

    Rick and Grindael, first we have Holocaust Deniers and now we have YOU two Salvation Deniers. Watching you twist yourselves into knots over this is excellent entertainment. Please, keep it coming! More stuff to add to my ever growing Ev Quote Book. However, the best quote ever from this board was from fellow Ev Michael P:

    “I don’t know what God looks like, and won’t pretend to guess. If he’s a hideuous 8 headed creature with 70 eyes and spider like legs, does that make him less of a God? I don’t think so, and nor should you.” – Michael P.

    The Ev God in all it’s glory right there. Super hard for you guys to top that – but you’re getting close – so keep it coming.

  46. grindael says:

    Jason,

    I’m just very happy to have you here to show all the lurkers what true Mormonism is really like and the lengths that some will go to in their desperate attempts to avoid the truth. And no one is denying that people can gain salvation, only that you are an insincere liar that can’t even get his lies straight.

  47. grindael says:

    discovering how God came to be God is the chief purpose of being here.

    No it isn’t. That is Jo Smith drivel. It is something that you have no concept of:

    25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

    26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

    27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.”

    28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.” (Luke 10)

  48. grindael says:

    “What makes you think I want all your sacrifices?” says the Lord. “I am sick of your burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fattened cattle. I get no pleasure from the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.

    When you come to worship me, who asked you to parade through my courts with all your ceremony? Stop bringing me your meaningless gifts;the incense of your offerings disgusts me! As for your celebrations of the new moon and the Sabbath and your special days for fasting—they are all sinful and false. I want no more of your pious meetings. I hate your new moon celebrations and your annual festivals. They are a burden to me. I cannot stand them!

    When you lift up your hands in prayer, I will not look. Though you offer many prayers, I will not listen, for your hands are covered with the blood of innocent victims. Wash yourselves and be clean!Get your sins out of my sight.

    Give up your evil ways. Learn to do good. Seek justice. Help the oppressed.Defend the cause of orphans. Fight for the rights of widows. Isaiah 1:11-17.

    This is all the things that Jason doesn’t have time for and can’t be bothered with. This is our purpose here. A Christian understands this.

  49. jasonrae says:

    Grindael,

    And no one is denying that people can gain salvation, only that you are an insincere liar that can’t even get his lies straight.

    Ah I get it now. Because I’m “insincere” it’s too much for the atonement to handle? I don’t know… sounds very alien to me. Kinda like the alien God that Micheal P. described in such rich detail with true Ev inspiration.

    Please Grindael, continue expounding on your salvation doctrine and how I’m not saved after walking the Roman’s Road. Words can’t express how educational this all is. The more you type the better it gets.

  50. Rick B says:

    Jason, You can keep saying all you want about how we deny salvation, But since you act as if everyone who comes to this board, and this includes lurkers who never post, you just assume they are ignorant and cant read, because you are the one that cannot answer questions and we keep pointing that out, and you dont even try, this shows you know nothing and you try and claim even lurkers are not smart enough to figure this out. This is why I keep pointing this out, for the benefit of lurkers to see you cant answer questions.

    This goes back to what you said before, If I have any questions all I need to do is ask you. So since you cannot answer questions from the Bible or about the Mormon religion, should I ask you simple questions like, Can you spell your name? How old are you? Do you know your phone number? What are the three numbers you need to dial the police if you need them? I think even these questions might be to hard for you.

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