In November 2004 Dr. Richard Mouw, president of Fuller Seminary, spoke in front of a packed house at the Mormon Tabernacle on Temple Square. Dr. Mouw apologized for the way evangelicals had borne “false witness” about the teachings of Mormonism. Later, when asked to clarify his statement, Dr. Mouw wrote,
“I have received emails in the past few days where evangelicals have said that Mormonism teaches that God was once a human being like us, and we can become gods just like God now is. Mormon leaders have specifically stated that such a teaching, while stated by past leaders, is something they don’t understand and has no functioning place in present day Mormon doctrine.”
A few years later (2007), in the thick of Mitt Romney’s presidential bid, FOXNews.com asked the LDS Church to comment on 21 questions regarding some controversial beliefs allegedly promoted by Mormonism. Two questions and answers of interest were:
Q: Does the Mormon Church believe its followers can become “gods and goddesses” after death?
A: We believe that the apostle Peter’s biblical reference to partaking of the divine nature and the apostle Paul’s reference to being ‘joint heirs with Christ’ reflect the intent that children of God should strive to emulate their Heavenly Father in every way. Throughout the eternities, Mormons believe, they will reverence and worship God the Father and Jesus Christ. The goal is not to equal them or to achieve parity with them but to imitate and someday acquire their perfect goodness, love and other divine attributes.
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Q: Does the Mormon Church believe in the existence of another physical planet or planets, where Mormons will “rule” after their death and ascension?
A: No.
The June 2009 issue of Ensign magazine sheds some light on LDS teachings related to the above statements. In “Our Refined Heavenly Home” by Seventy Douglas L. Callister we learn,
“I imagine that our heavenly parents are exquisitely refined. In this great gospel of emulation, one of the purposes of our earthly probation is to become like them in every conceivable way…” (page 55)
“Your Father in Heaven has sent you away from His presence to have experiences you would not have had in your heavenly home–all in preparation for the conferral of a kingdom. He doesn’t want you to lose your vision. You are children of an exalted being. You are foreordained to preside as kings and queens.” (page 58)
“…may we become worthy to enjoy the refined society of heavenly parentage, for we are of the race of the Gods, being ‘children of the most High’ (Psalm 82:6).” (page 58)
To summarize, the LDS gospel is one of “emulation” of God the Father and His heavenly partner. Human beings are of the “race of the Gods,” and as such, each person’s goal is to become like his or her heavenly parents “in every conceivable way.” Once a person is prepared for “the conferral of a kingdom,” he or she will fulfill the foreordained plan to “preside” therein as a king or queen and enjoy the “refined society of heavenly parentage.”
Mr. Callister’s comments are refreshingly straightforward. I hope readers benefit from his teaching and gain expanded insight into a few Mormon doctrines.
SETFREE
1. There is no contradiction. The Authority was taken out of the world (parden me if I said off the Earth, it was a slip). The world is the People, not the planet. The Authority was taken out from among the people that lived on the Earth. So, while the Three may have remained on the Earth, they were not in the world.
2. Personally, I don’t care what other translations say. I was simply using the Bible (the translation I believe in) to illustrate the doctrine of the LDS church. As it is the LDS doctrine we are talking about I have no trouble in directing you to D&C 7. This section is the JST of the John 21 quote.
3. I never said he got any of his revelations from the Freemasons. I don’t believe he did. I believe every revelation he received came directly from God. He was a Freemason, as were hundreds of the early members. This is not proof that he did not receive revelation from God. It is a coincedence, one that is handy for those who want anything they can get to fight against the church. It means nothing to me, or to any who truly have faith in Christ’s church.
Shem,
1. To bring together a couple of separate arguments…
God has always faithfully preserved for Himself a “remnant”. Even when He flooded the earth, He saved out Noah and his family to His Glory.
To jump to the conclusion that because men are basically evil, God cannot keep His Word around is to call Him a liar, a fool, a weakling. Understand?
The Gospel has always been the same thing, Jesus. In a nutshell, Jesus is God’s Justice, His Righteousness, His Mercy, His Love, His Word, His Faithfulness, His Grace, His Image. God wants a way to be able to dwell with man. In Jesus, He provided it. How could it be more simple than that? Corruption of the Gospel is to add more to it than is in Jesus.
2. You said that you believe in the KJV. I’m glad to see you really looking at the words. How about looking at these:
Col 1:15 Who (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God…
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man…
John 4:24 God is a Spirit
Deut 5:8 Thou shalt not make thee [any] graven image, [or] any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath…
or on the other extreme…
Deut 13: 1-3, 5 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, ‘Let us go after other (made-up, in an image we have seen or can conceive, something other than His self-description) gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth (is testing) you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul…And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God.
Sounds exactly like your founder prophet to me. You?
SETFREE
1. Quite obviously he did not do it this time. Why do you think we call it the Great Apostacy? It is because for the first time since God created the Earth there was no one who held the Authority of the Priesthood, therefore there was no one authorized to lead or organize the church of Christ.
This is prophecied by Isaiah in chapter 29 of his writings. Read it.
9 Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.
10 For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
All men are effected. They have no guidance, staggering about in spiritual confusion. No more does the Lord have prophets or seers, those men who were appointed to lead the church.
But Isaiah continues
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
The vision of All is as this. Not even the wise men, the scholars can understand it.
What do you think this is talking about but a world wide darkness of spirit, a global apostacy, where none have the truth, and none have the authority to act in the name of God.
(continued)
2. Nice Try, but just because I believe it to be the best translation to use does not mean I believe it to be a perfect translation.
Col 1: 15 In appearance Christ looks just like his Father, thus he is in the image of him (or the invisible God).
Romans 1: 23 Not sure what you are getting at since we haven’t reduced God to anything but the perfect being that has always been.
Deut 5: 8 When have we ever done this?
Now, John 4: 24 would be one of those mistranslated parts that I mentioned. I would direct you to the JST to see what it originally said.
Deut 13: 1-5 I know what you are saying, but I have to disagree. From all that I have witnessed and read Joseph Smith has done more to bring men to the one true God, the God who dilivered our ancestors from Egypt, than anyone else, except Christ himself. In all truth, I would say that this applies to the rest of Christianity, except that in general they are very lacking in the dreams and signs department, so it would not be completely accurate.
Shem,
You really think I’m just butting heads with you personally, don’t you.
I don’t give you info from the Bible to see what you know from Mormonism. I put it out here to refute Mormonism. I was a Mormon. I know what you believe. But Mormonism is a trap, a lie, a fraudulent work of the evil one, start to finish.
If you knew what it was like to really know Jesus, and have Him be personally in charge of your life, you’d give up “the church” to have Him!
SETFREE
I know why you post here, and I never said anything else. But my purpose for being here (aside from a good debate) is to show that your attempt at refuting really doesn’t refute anything.
While what you say may be enough for some to accept your belief, it is not enough to give a conclusive evidence of anything, and that is my point.
The only real traps are those systems of belief outside the true Gospel, which means everything that is not LDS. Of course, to say this means about as much as you saying what you did. The only proof of anything of this nature is the witness of the Holy Ghost, which is an individual thing, and thus cannot be used to as proof in persuading anyone else.
I have a couple questions that go along more with this thread than the most current one (Sorrowful Times in Nauvoo).
I wonder if any of the LDS can help me on these?
1. Is God the Father (Elohim) the first god? or does he have a father?
2. Is God the Father (Elohim) the prayer listener-to/answerer? or is God the Father (Jehovah)? How does he (which ever one it is) hear and answer prayers?
In June 1840, a latter-day saint prophet, Lorenzo Snow, made the following comment:"As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become. In the King James Version of the New Teastament Jesus Christ is attributed to have said: "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect".
If Snow's comment is correct, since men have fathers, then God, who once was as man, would also have a father.
& if Christ's comment is correct, since God (your Father which is in heaven) is perfect, then we should be perfect, and therefore perfected like Him.
together, these statements suggest: apples from apples, Gods from Gods
hop this helps