Following the distribution of the Jesus Christ/Joseph Smith DVD last month, there have been many conversations and opinions published online regarding the Christian outreach effort. One exchange took place on the Salt Lake Tribune’s public forum.
A Catholic woman, who believes in “love and charity to all” wrote to express her dismay over the DVD distribution, ending her letter with a kind hope that Latter-day Saints had been able to enjoy their Church’s General Conference despite the “sport” engaged in by “anti-Mormons.” Perhaps this was not the most charitable and loving letter “to all” in consideration of the nature of her concerns.
At any rate, this letter brought a thankful response from a Latter-day Saint who wrote:
As an active Latter-day Saint and a returned missionary, I have gotten in more than my share of arguments with the so-called “Christians” who feel a compulsion to build their own insecure beliefs (and yes, often they were insecure) by tearing others’ beliefs down. So when I read S.J. Moormeister’s kind comments (“Anti-LDS DVDs,” Forum, April 3) I was reminded why I always liked Catholics so much during my mission.Two years and I never once had a Catholic tell me I was going to hell for my beliefs; rather, they were always kind and generous to us. Ms. Moormeister does a service to herself and to the parish that she attends. Thank you so much for not participating in the bigotry that is so common these days. I did enjoy conference very much. Thank you again.
Matthew Call
Ephraim
Mr. Call’s experience with Catholic folk was perhaps more magnanimous than he realizes, given the historic position towards Catholicism expressed by LDS leaders through the years. Consider these public declarations offered without apology (then or now):
LDS Apostle Orson Pratt:
Q. Is the Roman Catholic Church the Church of Christ?
A. No: for she has no inspired priesthood or officers…Q. How long since the Roman Catholic Church lost the authority and ceased to be the Church of Christ?
A. She never had authority and never was the Church of Christ…Q. Who founded the Roman Catholic Church?
A. The Devil, through the medium of Apostates… (The Seer, 1854, 205)
LDS Apostle Daniel H. Wells:
I would rather preach the Gospel to a people who have not got any religion than I would to a people who have got a great deal of religion. You take the Catholic world. What impression can the truths of the Gospel make upon them as a people? Scarcely any impression at all. Why? Because they are satisfied with what they have got, which we know is an error, and which is not calculated to stem the tide of wickedness and corruption which floods the world. It never will convert the world to God or His Kingdom, or convey a knowledge of God unto the children of men, and it is life eternal to know Him, the living and true God. (Journal of Discourses 24:320, 1883)
LDS Apostle Hyrum M. Smith:
Christianity, as it is known in the world today, has fallen far short of the accomplishment of what might have been expected of it. It has failed in establishing those principles which Christ taught among the children of men. The great Catholic division of the Christian world, the Catholic church, is a national liability to any country. It wields a great power over the minds and the hearts of the children of men, but it is a power for evil rather than for good. It brings countless thousands regularly to confession; it rarely brings a single man to repentance and the abandonment of his sins. (Conference Report, October 1916, 42)
LDS President David O. McKay:
At one time it grieved me to know that this Church was not numbered among Protestant churches. But now I realize that the Church of Christ is more than a protest against the errors and evils of Catholicism.” (Conference Report, April 1927, 105)
LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie:
It is also to the Book of Mormon to which we turn for the plainest description of the Catholic Church as the great and abominable church. Nephi saw this “church which is most abominable above all other churches” in vision. He “saw the devil that he was the foundation of it” and also the murders, wealth, harlotry, persecutions, and evil desires that historically have been a part of this satanic organization. (Mormon Doctrine, 1958 edition, 130)
Apparently, sometime around 1960 LDS leadership decided they ought not to say these sorts of things in public if they want to make friends in the world. If Orson Pratt and David O. McKay, et. al., publicly expressed their religious convictions today, would we find the Anti-Defamation League releasing a statement condemning their remarks as “nothing more than [Catholic]-bashing… hate directed at all of us”? And would Mr. Call agree with that? I wonder if he would rebuke his Church leaders for “build[ing] their own insecure beliefs” by “tearing others’ beliefs down.”
I would love to hear a well reasoned response from some LDS to these questions. According to the article posted it claims, LDS are tired of hearing, they are going to hell. First off, Any honest LDS person who knows the BoM, knows it speaks of eternal damnation and hell fire more than the Bible.
If you believe the BoM is the word of God, then you should be also willing to hear the truth of what it teaches. But then, as far as the Bible goes, it speaks more of Hell and eternal judgment then it does heaven.
Now my questions, If I believe hell is real and I want you to avoid going there, why is it wrong for me to tell you what the Bible teaches, when you claim you believe the Bible and claim to follow it? Then you stick to your convictions and tell me my Church is wrong and you have a restored Gospel, I am not supposed to be upset by you telling me this, but you get upset for me doing the same thing.
Here are some verses where Paul claims if you teach another Gospel you will go to hell and be damned. Paul goes on to say, if you dont love Jesus you will be damned, and God speaks about the lake of fire and eternal hell and who will end up in it.
So now my next question, Who do the LDS believe Paul is speaking to? Who is God telling during the White Throne Judgment will go to hell, and lastly, Why is it ok for God, Jesus, Paul and the apostles to speak this stuff and no one gets up set, But When I simply repeat what Jesus said, I get blasted as being Hateful, a bigot, unloving, or not Christ like?
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1Cr 16:22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rick b
I think it’s incredibly demonic!! The Jews and the Romans were utmost enemies. But despite their differences, they were willing to lay down the struggle between each other to accomplish one thing. Crucify Christ!!
“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.” -John 15:18
Am not sure if some of these Catholics are aware of these past statements made by LDS leaders. But I am also not sure they would care in a situation like this.
God Bless…
-Eric Hoffman
Matthew 4:4
As a Catholic, I am familiar with the beliefs of Mormons regarding my Church. It is not surprising either, because it is necessary for a church claiming apostolic authority to tear down the Roman Catholic church that claims to carry that authority intact even to this day.
As a lawyer, I am also familiar with the many religious freedom Supreme Court cases that came about because of Mormons teaching these hateful things about the Catholic Church in Catholic communities. Mormons used to be much more honest and up front about the severity of their beliefs.
Look, it doesn’t really bother me that they believe such horrible things about the Catholic Church. What bothers me is that they don’t have any evidence to support the apostacy. Whenever they look back to historical evidence, they do so with the conclusion already in mind and the proposition, “Can I not disprove that the apostacy occured?” It is not a sincere investigation of historical fact.
The early Church not only was filled with righteous and holy men and women, many of whom were martyred for holding true to their Christianity, but the priesthood was passed on intact.
An added irony to the ADL’s involvement in all of this is a statement made by Brigham Young regarding those “whose fathers killed the Savior”:
“Can you make a Christian of a Jew? I tell you, nay. If a Jew comes into this Church, and honestly professes to be a Saint, a follower of Christ, and if the blood of Judah is in his veins, he will apostatize. He may have been born and bred a Jew, have the face of a Jew, speak the language of the Jews, and have attended to all the ceremonies of the Jewish religion, and have openly professed to be a Jew all his days; but I will tell you a secret-there is not a particle of the blood of Judaism in him, if he has become a true Christian, a Saint of God; for if there is, he will most assuredly leave the Church of Christ, or that blood will be purged out of his veins… I would rather undertake to convert five thousand Lamanites, than to convert one of those poor miserable creatures whose fathers killed the Savior, and who say, ‘Amen to the deed,’ to this day. Yea, I would rather undertake to convert the devil himself, if it were possible. Then I say to the Elders in those regions, be not astonished if you have to see hard times. And if I had a voice that would reach the ears of all those Elders, I would say, LEAVE THEM, AND COME HOME, THE LORD DOES NOT REQUIRE YOU TO STAY THERE, FOR THEY MUST SUFFER AND BE DAMNED. Now, sisters, write to your husbands who are in regions where the Gospel has been preached anciently, to come home; and I say to all the Elders who are in lands where the Gospel has been preached previous to our day, come away from that people, and leave them to live and die in their sins and ignorance. For the sins of their fathers are a sweet morsel to them, and they take pleasure in their wickedness; therefore, let them alone, and come home, and preach to the Lamanites” (Brigham Young, December 3, 1854, Journal of Discourses 2:142,143. Emphasis his).
Granted, a Mormon could easily point to comments made by professing Christians who have attacked people groups rather than issues and behaviors. I think the big difference lies in the fact that Christians, for the most, have been condemning of such comments. I don’t recall the LDS leadership denouncing Brigham Young, John Taylor, Bruce McConkie, etc., for the statements Sharon has listed.