This is the Christ of Mormonism:
1. He lives as a humanoid god on a star near Kolob along with his father god, bound by the physical world; he does not transcend the material.
2. He is the brother of satan.
3. He had to earn his own salvation while he was on earth.
4. He offers his “grace” only to those who work hard enough.
5. He is not from everlasting to everlasting, but was created a finite time ago by his father god, who in turn was also created by his own father god, who in turn was created by his own father god, so on and so forth
6. He is not the greatest being possible.
7. He is finite.
8. His blood is not powerful enough to wipe away any sin.
9. He aided his father in creating earth by organizing already existing matter; he is not capable of creating things out of nothing.
10. He must submit to a moral law that existed before he did.
11. You can one day become just like him.
This is the Christ of the Bible:
1. He is a spirit being that transcends space and time.
2. He is the brother of no creature; He is God, from everlasting to everlasting. No one can claim kinship with Him except those He purchased for Himself on the cross. And He is not the same type of creature they are. He is not a creature, He is God.
3. Jesus is the Author of Salvation; to say that He needed to earn His salvation is absurdity.
4. He offers His sovereign grace to whomever He sovereignly chooses; we are all tainted by sin and vile in His holy eyes. Therefore, no one is more worthy than any other human being. Thus, His grace that He offers is given unconditionally. His grace is true grace, a beautiful gift.
5. He is from everlasting to everlasting. He was never created, and Has been in relationship with the Father and the Holy Spirit forever.
6. He is the greatest being possible, the Most High God. There is no one like Him and there is no one who will ever be anything like Him.
7. He is infinite, both in essence and in His divine perfections.
8. His blood is powerful enough to wipe away any sin, regardless of heinousness and duration. The only sin that cannot be forgive is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; and this is not because the blood of Christ is not powerful enough to wash it away, but because God has so sovereignly decreed that all persons who blaspheme the Holy Ghost should not receive forgiveness.
9. He created everything that exists out of nothing by the mere word of His mouth.
10. There is no external law that He submits to; He is the Author and the Source of the Law.
11. No one can ever come near to obtaining the glory and excellency of Christ.
Falcon,
What do evangelicals do with Bible verses which describe interactions with god, as if he were a physical person? One particularly interesting passage is in Exodus 33. Moses wants to see his face, but he isn't allowed to, but he was granted a view of his hind parts.
"Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.” …“you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.” …, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.” "This translation just says back, but the KJV says …thou shalt asee my back parts: but my face shall not be seen."
What is the theological significance of seeing the 'back parts'?
Ralph,
You keep missing the point, where is your evidence from scripture? I don't care if the Mormon god caused you to take flight and soar all over Australia, you demonstrate for me from God's Word the Bible that what you have invested your soul in is true. That's the problem with the Mormon approach, it's all based on hocus pocus revelation and magic rock gazing and subjective feelings that have no basis in reality. The BoA, for example, has been shown to be a total farce. The "god" that Smith recognizes as the Mormon god is an Egyptian god sitting on his throne exposing himself. Wake-up man! I don't care what kind of spiritual experiences you've had, if they come from an entity other than the God revealed in the Bible, you're just messing with demonic forces. These forces can provide you with spiritual entertainment all day long. When I read the Mormon accounts of their spirit(ism), it's not real difficult to see what the cult is/was into. Eastern mystical religions and New Age Cults can provide you with the same spiritual phenomenon, warm fuzzy feelings and all sorts of "enlightenment".
Jesus demonstrated from the Law and the prophets who He is after His resurrection when He was standing right in front of the disciples, which one would think would have been enough proof. But He goes to the Scriptures. We read time and again in the Book of Acts how Paul demonstrated from the Scriptures as to who Jesus is. Mormons just groove on the idea of "revelation" and that's why they are so easily deceived.
Now don't give me that jive about, "it's your opinion or your interpretation". That's just cult talk Ralph. Given your standard and method of Biblical interpretation, everything is truth. There is objective truth to who Jesus is. It's contained in God's Word and also the traditions of the Church.
You've been sold a bill of goods Ralph with nothing but blue sky to back it up.
If you want to entertain yourself with visions of becoming a god, that's one thing. But you have a family Ralph that's following you down this black hole of deception. If you don't care about the destiny of your own soul that's fine, but give your family a chance at the eternal life that God is offering through His Son Jesus Christ.
Well here's some more for you. Jesus describes himself as "living water", "bread", "a door" and God is also described as a "shield" and I believe also as an "eagle".
There are a variety of linguistic devices used in the Bible to make a point. So it's important to look at the full council of the Word of God. What did Jesus say about the Father? Off the top of my head wasn't something about no one having seen God at any time and that God is a Spirit?
The problem with Mormons is that they don't use any type of spiritual discernment or systematic approach to understanding the Word of God. They much prefer "revelation" because it sounds super spiritual. It's also an approach that leads to erroneous renderings of the Biblical text and results in misunderstanding, confusion and the formation of false doctrine.
Well I've kind of lost track of where I am out here now with my back and forth with Ralph over the last few days but let me make a point.
Ralph believes in Mormonism because he thinks he's had some spiritual experiences that confirm to him the truthfulness (of Mormonism). I've been encouraging him to search the Scriptures, in some acceptable systematic fashion, in order to prove to him that the Jesus of Mormonism is not the Jesus that is revealed in God's Word, the Bible. Mormons don't like to do this for a couple of reasons. First of all they like the subjective practice of spiritual revelation and spiritual experience. It's much more exciting than searching the Scriptures and it makes them feel like they are in the spiritual gifted and talented group. Actually I run into this with Christians also, but as I have pointed out previously, at least the Christians have their doctrine of the nature of God right.
What our buddy Ralph doesn't realize is that supernatural and spiritual experiences can easily come out of the soul of the person wanting the experiences. Also, when someone recognizes a "god" other than "God" they are opening themselves up to all sorts of demonic spirits. Reading of the happenings of the early Mormons, it's pretty easy to see what these folks were tapping into. This is especially so since they were following a guy, Joseph Smith, who was a practicing occultist. But the desire to believe and experience supernatural phenomenon is very strong in some people and they simply throw caution to the wind.
The Bible tells us that Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. He can dangle a shiny new object in the fashion of a supernatural experience or confirming feeling and the easily duped go for it just like prey chasing some bait. It's a trap but the prey doesn't see the trap because their eyes and appetites are on the bait.
There's a price to pay for chasing after false spiritual bait. Once the trap door of death is slammed, there is no escape. There is no second chance. There is no do-over. God's Word, the Bible has made it very clear who Jesus is and what He did for us on the cross. The Bible also makes God's plan of salvation clear and understandable.
I think I've pretty much exhausted what I've had to say regarding this particular thread at this particular time. My only hope is that having been exposed to the truth, the Mormons who visit here will take the opportunity to turn their lives over to the author of our faith, the Jesus who reveals Himself in the Bible.
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