Mormonism’s “different Jesus”

On Monday I blogged about my disagreement with Mormon bishop Nate Sharp’s implication that because there is “one and only one Jesus Christ” the idea that Mormons believe in a “different Jesus” is a myth. Today I want to look again at his blog article and very briefly examine a few of the attributes Dr. Sharp attributed to the Jesus he said Mormons believe in. In his recent article titled “Dispelling 5 More Myths About Mormons,” Dr. Sharp stated,

Christus Statue“Myth #1: Mormons believe in a ‘different Jesus.’

“One myth about Mormons is the notion that we believe in a ‘different Jesus.’ In reality, of course, there is one and only one Jesus Christ. Jesus of Nazareth, whose life, ministry, Atonement, death, and resurrection are recounted in the New Testament, is the center of our faith in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Mormons worship and accept Jesus Christ as King of kings, Lord of lords, Creator of the universe, the promised Messiah, the Son of God, and the Savior and Redeemer of all mankind. Jesus is the ‘author and finisher of our faith’ (Hebrews 12:2) and ‘the way, the truth, and the life’ (John 14:6). We believe His is the only name under heaven whereby mankind can be saved.”

Dr. Sharp’s description of Mormonism’s view of Jesus Christ is filled with biblical words and quotes, giving the impression that Mormonism’s “different Jesus” is the same Jesus that is revealed in the New Testament. But in fact, such a conclusion would be a myth. Consider the following.

Dr. Sharp wrote, “Mormons worship and accept Jesus Christ as King of kings, Lord of lords.” Yet an article in Ensign magazine said that, “what we can hope for regarding the consummation of the latter-day work that the Lord began through Joseph Smith…[is that] Jesus Christ will become the King of Kings…” (Gerald N. Lund, “A Prophet for the Fulness of Times,” January 1997, 54. Emphasis added). The biblical Jesus is not becoming the King of kings; He is the King of kings (1 Timothy 6:15).

Dr. Sharp wrote, “Mormons worship and accept Jesus Christ as…the Savior and Redeemer of all mankind.” I have to believe that this Jesus offers a limited or partial redemption, because in LDS General Conferences it has been taught that the redemption of all mankind also requires human redeemers: Mormons do temple work “for a purpose, which is to redeem our dead ancestors,” President James Faust said (Ensign, November 2003, 54); and, as quoted by President Thomas Monson, “It is by this [Mormon] priesthood that…[men’s] sins are forgiven, and that they are redeemed” (President Wilford Woodruff, Ensign, November 2000, 47). This is a “different Jesus” because the biblical Jesus Himself provides redemption and forgiveness through His blood (Ephesians 1:7) — not through proxy temple work or the Mormon priesthood.

LDS Christ Pass Along CardDr. Sharp wrote, “Jesus is…‘the way, the truth, and the life’ (John 14:6).” Yet a Mormon apostle taught in General Conference that “This Church…is the way, the truth, and the life” (Marion G. Romney, 1961, quoted in Book of Mormon Student Manual, 1989, 26. Emphasis added). LDS President Thomas Monson wrote, “Jesus Christ taught… ‘the way, the truth, and the life’” (Ensign, April 2006, 3). And a Mormon Seventy said Jesus “will forever light our way, our truth, and our life (see John 14:6)” (Donald Hallstrom, Ensign, May 2010, 80. Emphasis added). When the biblical apostle Thomas said, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” The biblical Jesus did not say, “The church is the way” or “I will teach you the way” or “I will illuminate your way.” The biblical Jesus said, “I am the way” – the only way — because “No one comes to the Father except through Me” (John 14:3-7). Unlike the “different Jesus” of Mormonism, the biblical Jesus is the only way, the only truth, and the only life.

In reality, nearly every word and phrase used by Dr. Sharp to describe the biblical-sounding attributes of Mormonism’s “different Jesus” represent an unbiblical Jesus Christ. His ministry, his atonement, his creatorship, his sonship (etc.) are all different from the ministry, Atonement, Creatorship and Sonship (etc.) of the biblical Jesus. And because this “different Jesus” of Mormonism is not the true Jesus Christ, Dr. Sharp’s assertion regarding the Mormon belief in his sufficiency rings hollow.

Dr. Sharp wrote, “We believe His is the only name under heaven whereby mankind can be saved.” Yet in an article commemorating the death of Joseph Smith in the LDS Church News, the author wrote,

“In the final analysis – when this dispensation is completed – the salvation and happiness of men and women will be determined on how each of us has responded to the name and the prophetic calling of Joseph Smith.” (William O. Nelson, “Joseph’s prophetic mission,” Church News, July 16, 1994, 5)

Years later Church News quoted Mormon Seventy Theodore Tuttle who said during a 1971 General Conference,

“Every Man who has lived since the days of Joseph Smith is subject to accepting him as a prophet of God in order to enter into our Heavenly Father’s presence.” (“No greater prophet,” Church News, March 17, 2001, 14)

joseph-smithMormon President Brigham Young taught,

“From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are — I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent.” (Journal of Discourses 7:289)

And Mormon President Joseph F. Smith explained,

“The day will come—and it is not far distant, either—when the name of the Prophet Joseph Smith will be coupled with the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the Son of God, as his representative, as his agent whom he chose, ordained and set apart to lay anew the foundations of the Church of God in the world, which is indeed the Church of Jesus Christ, possessing all the powers of the gospel, all the rites and privileges, the authority of the Holy Priesthood, and every principle necessary to fit and qualify both the living and the dead to inherit eternal life, and to attain to exaltation in the kingdom of God.” (Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, 5th ed. [1939], 134; quoted in “Joseph Smith: Restorer of Truth,” Ensign, December 2003, 17)

The biblical Jesus does not couple His name with the name of Joseph Smith to bring salvation to His people. The name of the biblical Jesus is the only name whereby we can be saved. Christian theologian John Piper explains,

“The point of saying, ‘There is no other NAME,’ is that we are saved by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus. His name is our entrance into fellowship with God. The way of salvation by faith is a way that brings glory to the name of Jesus. Peter says in Acts 10:43, ‘Every one who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.’ The name of Jesus is the focus of faith and repentance. In order to believe on Jesus for the forgiveness of sins, you must believe on his name. That is, you must have heard of him and know who he is as a particular man who did a particular saving work and rose from the dead.

“Paul put it this way in Romans 10:13–15: ‘Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. …’ There is salvation in no one else—… Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, apart from him no one comes to the Father (John 14:6).”

Nineteenth century Christian pastor Charles Spurgeon said,

“You must understand that there is only one door to salvation, and that is Christ; there is one way, and that is Christ; one truth, and that is Christ; one life, and that is Christ. Salvation lies in Jesus only…” (read more).

enoughNot Jesus plus. Jesus plus Joseph. Jesus plus the temple. Jesus plus the priesthood. This “different Jesus” of Mormonism is only part of the way and part of the truth. Another way to say this is that this Jesus is insufficient. But the biblical Jesus, the true Jesus Christ, is all sufficient. As John MacArthur notes in his sermon on the sufficiency of Christ, Colossians 2:10 (NKJV) says, “You are complete in Him.”

Mormonism’s “different Jesus” is lacking in many ways. But the biblical Jesus — He is all anyone will ever need.

About Sharon Lindbloom

Sharon surrendered her life to the Lord Jesus Christ in 1979. Deeply passionate about Truth, Sharon loves serving as a full-time volunteer research associate with Mormonism Research Ministry. Sharon and her husband live in Minnesota.

This entry was posted in Bible, Christianity, Jesus Christ, LDS Church, Misconceptions, Mormon Leaders, Salvation and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

19 Responses to Mormonism’s “different Jesus”

  1. SR says:

    What struck me most about the quote from Dr. Sharp is the order of the words “atonement” and “death” — I know that Mormons believe that the atonement happened in Gethsemane and not on the cross, so it in particular jumped out at me.

    On Good Friday, my pastor preached about the importance of the cross and all I could think about the entire time was how I wish my Mormon friends could be listening to this. Because without the cross, without Jesus’s death, what have we got at all?

  2. historybuff says:

    Thank you, Sharon!

    Many non-Mormons wonder why Mormons seem so afraid to discuss Joseph Smith and his questionable accomplishments like polygamy, contradictory doctrines, and failed prophecies. Sharon has provided the answer: thinly veiled threats from Mormon leaders.

    “Every Man who has lived since the days of Joseph Smith is subject to accepting him as a prophet of God in order to enter into our Heavenly Father’s presence.” (“No greater prophet,” Church News, March 17, 2001, 14)

    “In the final analysis – when this dispensation is completed – the salvation and happiness of men and women will be determined on how each of us has responded to the name and the prophetic calling of Joseph Smith.” (William O. Nelson, “Joseph’s prophetic mission,” Church News, July 16, 1994, 5)

    Is it any wonder that most Mormons hurl their “testimony” at skeptical non-Mormons, then hurriedly flee the scene?

  3. Pingback: Is it wrong say Mormonism embraces a “different Jesus”? | Mormon Coffee

  4. falcon says:

    Most important question a Mormon can answer, “Who is Jesus?”. I am repeating myself now, aren’t I? So Mormon lurker, compare and contrast the “Mormon Jesus” and the Jesus revealed in the Bible. Which one do you want to depend on for eternal life? Your pathway to salvation is purported to be, a Jesus who was spirit procreated by one of the pantheon of gods in the Mormon universe and one of his plural wives. If you do the undefined “enough” than, supposedly, the Mormon god steps in and covers your short-fall in performance so you too can become a god. What a con, and a long con at that.
    That’s not what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches that Jesus is God incarnate, eternal and wholly God. As the perfect sacrifice for sin, he shed His blood for us on the cross so that through faith we might receive the gift of eternal life the Father is offering us.
    Do you really want to work as a slave in the LDS system your whole life and then find out none of the LDS gospel is true? Truly a wasted life and a wasted eternity!

  5. historybuff says:

    Any discussion of the Jesus professed by Mormons would be incomplete without considering the words of Orson Hyde, President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Speaking to a conference of the Saints in the Mormon Tabernacle in Salt Lake City on March 18, 1855, President Hyde reiterated the point made earlier – and often – by Mormon leaders that Jesus was a polygamist and sired children. And in so doing, he ridiculed the Jesus Christ of traditional Christianity as “too pure and holy.”

    Granted, some Mormons today do not consider it scripture, but President Hyde taught the doctrine often in conference addresses. And remember the counsel given recently in the Church’s own Ensign Magazine: conference talks by Mormon leaders “contain doctrine –eternal truths from God.”

    “Approved curriculum materials from the Church, such as scriptures, general conference talks, and manuals, contain doctrine—eternal truths from God.”
    https://www.lds.org/ensign/2014/07/we-teach-by-the-power-of-the-holy-ghost?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/06195_eng.pdf

    President Hyde minced no words in his numerous conference sermons:
    “I discover that some of the Eastern papers represent me as a great blasphemer, because I said, in my lecture on Marriage, at our last Conference, that Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee, that Mary, Martha, and others were his wives, and that he begat children. All that I have to say in reply to that charge is this—they worship a Savior that is too pure and holy to fulfil the commands of his Father. I worship one that is just pure and holy enough ‘to fulfil all righteousness;’ not only the righteous law of baptism, but the still more righteous and important law ‘to multiply and replenish the earth.’ Startle not at this for even the Father himself honored that law by coming down to Mary, without a natural body, and begetting a son; and if Jesus begat children, he only ‘did that which he had seen his Father do.’ ” Orson Hyde, “The Judgements of God on the United States–The Saints and the World,” Journal of Discourses 2:210.

    Ask Mormons about this and they will reply that President Hyde was misquoted (in the Church’s own Journal?…) or they will say he was just speculating wildly. The President of the Quorum of the Twelve speculating wildly? In a conference sermon? In several conference sermons? If so, what does that mean about conference sermons generally and the Church’s counsel that they “contain doctrine – eternal truths from God”?

    Which counsel from the Church is erroneous: President Hyde’s declarations that Jesus was a polygamous father; or the Church’s admonition that Church manuals and conference talks by Church leaders contain inspired doctrine? Mormon leaders can’t have it both ways. Just another in a list of fatal flaws of Mormonism.

  6. Mike R says:

    historybuff,
    Yes indeed , you have provided yet another example of the Jesus of Mormonism being a different Christ than the one we meet in the New Testament .
    The Christ of Mormonism is a latter days counterfeit of the former days One — Matt 24:24.

    The Mormon deserve to know the truth about following latter days false prophets — Matt 15:14 .
    We pray for these precious people to dismiss their leaders and come to Jesus — Him alone for salvation .No temple , no confessing Joseph Smith , Brigham Young , Thomas Monson .
    Jn 14:6 .

  7. falcon says:

    I can’t remember for sure, but I think that Fawn Brodie’s biography of Joseph Smith might have been the first book I read on Mormonism. I remember one thing clearly from her writing and that is when she noted that one of the main features that Smith used to sell Mormonism was that everyone could receive “revelation”. She went on to say that this caused Smith some problems because while it got him converts, it threatened his position as “the prophet”. If anyone could receive revelation, he wouldn’t be all that special and his power would be diminished.
    Even now Mormons will claim personal revelation but this is in deed personal. When they vote in general conference on something, they all fall in line with the leadership.
    So what happens when Jesus reveals Himself to a Mormon as He revealed Himself to me? That is, when they come to understand that He isn’t the spirit off-spring of one of the pantheon of Mormon gods and one of his plural wives? Can such a person remain in the LDS church? Jesus talked about the price that some would have to pay to follow Him. I would never minimalize the angst a faithful Mormon would feel making such a choice. But the apostle Paul said that anything he had gained in his former life was rubbish in comparison to knowing Jesus.

    Here’s an excerpt from an article about Fawn Brodie. I’ll link to the entire article.

    “In late 1945, after seven years labor, she published her shocking biography of Joseph Smith, the founder and prophet of the Mormon faith. The book rocked the church to its foundation, for it portrayed Smith as a charlatan and imposter who had made up the story of his purported discovery of the golden plates and who had written the holy books of the faith, the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham, out of his own fertile imagination. Her book, No Man Knows My History, questioned his “first vision” and pointed out that Smith had given three different versions of it.”

    http://www.washingtonindependentreviewofbooks.com/features/the-mormon-excommunication-of-fawn-brodie-why-banishing-the-famous-biograph

  8. Mike R says:

    ” Mormonism teaches a ” different ” Jesus ” . LDS seem to think that we are unloving , judgmental , for saying that . For most rank and file LDS they have really never looked into this issue , they’ve joined a religious organization that has a myriad of obligations for them , consequently they are very busy people doing their religious work in addition to raising their families and secular jobs. However , if Mormon leaders turn out to be latter days false prophets then their followers are in serious trouble also before God unless they reject these men and the false teachings they’ve introduced . Being nice or moral type people can’t make up for believing lies about God / Jesus or salvation .

    Mormon leaders make some very exclusive claims . One such claim is “…. that Joseph Smith and his successors are the revealers of the knowledge of Christ and of salvation for our day …” [ Elder Bruce McConkie , Ensign Nov 1974 , p35 ] .

    This type of claim is vital in the message of Mormonism because they believe that a complete apostasy occurred soon after the deaths of Jesus’ apostles thus the true doctrine of who God and Jesus are was alter , corrupted , hence people could not gain the true knowledge of God / Jesus –and such information was required for salvation . Mormon leaders claim this knowledge was restored by Joseph Smith , and his successors like Brigham Young . Young proclaimed :

    ” The Christian world , so-called , are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God .” [ JofD v 8p171] .
    Mormon apostle John Taylor taught that the Christian world in the 19th century were all ignorant of the things of God and fools as to a correct idea of who God was . [ Jof D v 13p 225 ] .

    Mormon apostle LeGrand Richards ( who I personally corresponded with )many years ago) taught that all other Christian churches were guilty of worshiping a false God because they believed He was a Spirit and not an exalted man . There [ A marvelous Work and a Wonder 1976 , p 12 ] ‘

    Bruce McConkie preaching in Gen. Conf added to apostle Richards claims by teaching that :
    True religion is found only where men worship the true and living God. False religion results from the worship of false gods .” [ Ensign Nov 1980 ] .

    Mormon leaders for a long , long , time in one way or the other have ” seconded ” these teachings,
    believing as McConkie did that : A knowledge of the truth is essential to true worship …. There is no salvation in worshiping a false god . ” [ Ensign Dec 1971 ] . They have been quite clear that to believe God is a Spirit and not an exalted man is to engage in FALSE WORSHIP . Same holds true for Jesus , to worship a Jesus not endorsed by Mormon leaders is to also engage in false worship !
    So a person must choose which prophets/apostles to follow : either the ones in the Bible or the ones who came on the scene 1700 years later — Mormon prophets / apostles .

    We’ve already listed some of the teachings about Jesus which Mormon leaders have taught so I won’t repeat them now . Is Mormonism correct about Jesus ? have Mormon leaders really introduced the truth about Him since they appeared on the scene ? One things for sure a name means very little when it comes to testing the Jesus of Mormonism as a good counterfeit will also bear the name ” Jesus Christ ” .

    Mormons : test your prophets . This is so important that you will be without excuse for not making the time to do so because God has warned you in His word about false prophets and their imitation gospels appearing in the latter days . Appearances can be deceiving , so get past the well dressed polite manner of your leaders and examine what they have taught as the alleged ” …. revealers of the knowledge of Christ and of salvation for our day….” [ Ensign 1974 p 35 ] .

    Conclusion : for Mormons to think that we are un loving for saying that Mormonism teaches a different or another Jesus , just remember that Mormon leaders have said very similar things about what non Mormons believe about Jesus .

  9. falcon says:

    Mike,
    There are sects of Mormonism that see Joseph Smith as a fallen prophet.
    David Whitmer:
    “We do not indorse [sic] the teachings of any of the so-called Mormons or Latter Day Saints, which are in conflict with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, as taught in the New Testament and the Book of Mormon. They have departed a great measure from the faith of the CHURCH of CHRIST as it was first established, by heeding revelations given through Joseph Smith, who, after being called of God to translate his sacred word–the Book of Mormon–drifted into many errors and gave many revelations to introduce doctrines, ordinances and offices in the church, which are in conflict with Christ’s teachings. They also changed the name of the Church…On account of God giving to Joseph Smith the gift to translate the plates on which was engraven the Nephite scriptures, the people of the Church put too much trust in him–in the man–and believed his words as if they were from God’s own mouth. They have trusted in the arm of flesh…They looked to Joseph Smith as lawgiver, we look to Christ alone, and believe only in the religion of Jesus Christ and not in the religion of any man.”

    “It is also a stumbling-block to those who desire to investigate as to the truth of the Book of Mormon, to see the believers in that book divided; but the divisions have been brought about by the revelations of Joseph Smith. We, the Church of Christ, who accept on the Bible and the Book of Mormon as the rule and guide to our faith, agree on the doctrine and gospel of Christ.”

  10. Mike R says:

    falcon,

    Joseph Smith ( and Brigham Young , and John Taylor , and Wilford Woodruff ………) were all men who claimed to have been appointed by Jesus to run His church and preach the true Gospel , yet none of them were actually appointed by Him . It was not uncommon for someone to claim to have seen or heard from angels , or Jesus or God and be given a mission to introduce the real truth about fundamental doctrines of God’s Word . Mormon leaders are no different . It’s the kind of claim we would expect to hear in the latter days given some of the things that will happen in those
    days .

    You posted a good statement by one of Joseph’s right hand men . Interestingly , what Joseph Smith succumbed to ( as well as Brigham Young etc ) was similar to what Mormon leaders claimed commenced the alleged great apostasy they are so fond of believing happened soon after the deaths of Jesus’ apostles : men drifted into error , doctrines were altered and man made additions were mixed into the true gospel the apostles had preached thus rendering it anemic , unable to save .
    A case of Gal. 1:8-9 happened according to Mormonism. However, Mormon leaders were also guilty of similar behavior !

    If you look at what Mormon leaders in the 19th century ( especially B.Y. and such ) were saying about the teaching behavior of all the other churches around them , you’ll find a good case of the pot calling the kettle black .

  11. falcon says:

    For religions like Mormonism, it’s all about control and that control is exercised by the leadership. If someone has invested everything they have in a belief system, if they are emotionally sold out to it, it’s a very difficult thing to give up.
    Quite frankly I don’t get it because I have neither a desire or need to be controlled by a religious system and those who are in a position of authority. Now I say this because I know those who lead the LDS church are false prophets and teachers. Giving up personal responsibility to question and maintain independence is a dangerous road to take. I’d be very careful as to who I would allow to be a religious authority in my life. I’ll admit that for folks who have a low tolerance for ambiguity, a highly structured religious sect that professes to have the answers is a very attractive thing.
    Being under authority can be a good thing but not when the authority figures are not what they claim to be. Assuming that these LDS leaders are hearing from God when their track record is so miserable, isn’t a good idea.

  12. historybuff says:

    Falcon —

    You are, of course, correct; however, if we attempt to evaluate the problems a questioning Mormon faces and walk a mile in a Mormon’s shoes, there’s more to consider than a person’s authoritarian proclivities and tolerance for ambiguities. We should remember also that these are for the most part persons who live and work in parochial Mormon communities. Their family and friends are Mormons, as are their work associates — and bosses.

    If they ask questions there’s a high likelihood there will be consequences. A lot of questioning Mormons keep their questions to themselves. They may surf the Web looking for answers, but the desire to keep their marriage together or to keep their job is a strong motivator for silence. And a lot of us would like to have our children still talk to us and let us visit our grandchildren.

    This, of course, does not change the fact that you’re right. But it can be extraordinarily tough to make the change. And sometimes when we think we’re walking a mile in another’s shoes we’re inadvertently slipping on our own comfortable slippers. On the other hand, the New Testament never said it would be easy.

  13. falcon says:

    buff
    In some ways what you describe is what we see with the Amish who live in our area. Once you leave, you are shunned and are thought to be going to hell. But they leave the apostate alone.
    With the LDS church, once you leave, you’re shunned and are thought to be heading for the Mormon version of hell, but they won’t leave you alone. They think it’s their duty and obligation to bring you back. That’s the job of the missionaries.
    In our area, where Mormonism is barely a blip on the radar screen, if that, the cultural price that someone leaving pays is not like where Mormons dominate the scene. The leavers will, of course, lose all of their Mormon friends, but they can get new friends. After going through the stages of guilt, depression and mourning, they come out the other side more resolute and emotionally healthy.
    I think for someone who leaves the LDS church and comes to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, they probably have a better time of it. This would be especially so if they find a community of believers they feel comfortable with.
    But there are Mormons who fade out of the LDS church and have no real blow-back. They are the inactives. There are so many of these that there’s not enough members of the LDS church or missionaries to track them down and harass them, in either a subtle or not so subtle way.

  14. falcon says:

    Would it be possible for a Mormon to put aside their Mormon “over-lay” and read the Bible with fresh eyes? I suppose it would depend how deeply a Mormon is in the conditioning provided by the LDS church. Once someone gives-up their independence and then out-sources their responsibility for finding truth to a “prophet”, they are fair game for religious con men.
    Con man, the term might denote someone taking advantage of someone else for personal gain. Was that who Joseph Smith was; a con man? He certainly was gifted at convincing people and manipulating them to the point where they’d believe all of his stories. There’s another element in this however. The 19th century, in America, had all sorts of religious vagabonds, some more successful than others. Their one common characteristic was that they were religious entrepreneurs. They were in a free-flow stream of consciousness mode coming up with all sorts of creative ideas regarding religion. Smith was one of many and he was better at it than most.
    So would a Mormon dare to venture into God’s Word, trusting that it’s accurate and reveals God’s plan of salvation for mankind? First, I think, that Mormon would have to have some amount of confidence in letting go of fear, trusting that God’s Word contains His revelation.

  15. falcon says:

    Mike,
    This three minute video is right in your wheel house. This is Robert Millet in a presentation to Mormon missionaries. Notice how he sets this up by saying something like a “person from out of the blue ask a hostile question”. It’s a good way for a Mormon to justify lying. Any question can be labeled “hostile” as could any person asking a legitimate question. Labeling questions as “hostile” then gives the Mormon missionary license to not be direct and forthright.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zA-rZQB-xQ

  16. falcon says:

    What would a Mormon, who could set aside their LDS over lay, think of these passages in the NT.

    John 1:1-14 and Colossians 1:13-21

    Would it be possible for an LDS member who believes that there are millions if not billions of gods in the universe, that they themselves are going to become gods and that Jesus is the spirit offspring of one of these gods and one of his plural wives, to understand what these verses are saying?
    What would they say if they found out that Joseph Smith started out with a fairly conventional view of God and morphed his “god” into a being that once was a man.
    It takes asking some hard questions and I don’t know if many Mormons are willing to go there.

  17. falcon says:

    Now what would “first born of all creation” mean to a Mormon with the (Mormon) over-lay fully operational?
    It is a term used to convey pre-eminence. Being “the first-born of all creation” means that Jesus is above all creation, not that He was created first, just as His being “first-born from the dead” does not mean He was raised first chronologically.
    This is why it’s important to have a proper understanding of Scripture. Both the Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons believe that Jesus is a created being. The JWs go so far as actually changing the first verse in the Gospel according to John in their New World translation to make Jesus “a god”.

  18. Mike R says:

    falcon,

    Mr. Millet teaching Mormon Missionaries how to be sneaky salesmen ? That’s not surprising .
    Hopefully those young people will think for themselves and be more transparent in answering questions from non Mormons than Mr Millet is .

    Sharon mentioned how Bishop Sharp’s comment about what Mormons believe about Jesus is filled with biblical words and quotes . That’s an important reminder how people are so easily convinced that Mormonism is the same faith as those believers in the New Testament .
    Mormonism strength in proselytizing is in using the biblical titles , names , of Jesus to prove that the Mormon Jesus is the authentic and true Jesus Christ . However , what Mormon leaders have taught about Jesus Christ is a good counterfeit and as such it can be difficult for many investigators
    to identify the Mormon Jesus as only a imitation — 2Cor 11:4 .

    One good way to show how Bishop Sharps comment is faulty is to look at what Mormons say about God . They pull the titles and names of God from the Bible and declare that they worship the same God , not a ” different God ” . However , what Mormon leaders have taught about God is clearly foreign to what the Bible teaches about Him concerning several vital truths .

    The fact that using the same names / titles the Bible uses about Jesus ( or God ) is not enough proof that Mormonism teaches the same Jesus . This is a fact that Mormon authorities acknowledge :

    ” However , the mere worship of a god who has the proper scriptural names does not assure one that he is worshiping the true and living God . The true names of Deity , for instance , are applied to the false concepts of God found in the apostate creeds of the day .” [ Mormon Doctrine p 270 ] .

    People will not be fooled into accepting Mormon leaders as true apostles if they would take time to get beneath the statements about Jesus that these men usually give in public interviews etc .
    A wise shopper does’nt fall for the carefully chosen words and graphics on food packages these days
    instead they read the small print on the back — the list of ingredients . Most times some unhealthy ingredient is found there and thus the product is rejected . The claims and teachings of many of the prophets around today can likewise look appealing on the surface . Safety from being fooled by latter days false prophets is gained by looking more closely at what they teach , and nothing is more serious than what they teach about Jesus . Salvation is at stake .

    A good counterfeit is still a counterfeit .

  19. Mike R says:

    you mentioned the Jw’s and rightly pointed out their error relative to Col 1: 15 and Jn 1:1 . Watchtower leaders have taught that Jesus was the first creation by Jehovah God . Speaking of Jesus and Lucifer they said , ” These two mighty creatures were brothers , both sons of God . Lucifer proved to be the disloyal son of God , while the Logos is the ‘ Faithful and true’ ” . [ Watchtower mag 3-1- 1932 p 13 ] .

    A Mormon authority taught : ” The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God . He was called Lucifer …. this spirit brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind .” [ Milton R. Hunter , Gospel Through the Ages , p. 15 ] .

    There is a difference between these two Jesus’ . According to Watchtower Jesus was the first creation by Jehovah God . The Mormon Jesus was the first son born in heaven the result of a male God having sex with His Goddess wife . He later came to earth and was called Jesus .
    That’s all I will say about Jw’s — gotta keep on topic .

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