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45 Responses to The Changing God of Mormonism
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The whole voting to approve the Lectures on Faith puts mormonism in yet another embarrassing position, specially if one is to take seriously their claim that they have a living prophet that receives personal revelation from God. I mean, is God running that church or what? If so, how can the first vision, if it really happened the way Joseph said it did leave so much room for confusion?
The whole thing is clearly made up, and developed over time. Mormons will try to say the same happened in ancient Israel, but all i see was God getting it right the first time with Moses, and then giving prophecies of the Messiah which would change the covenant – nothing besides that.
@ about 29 minutes, Sandra makes an awesome comment. They were talking about how the teachings of a living prophet are above that of a past prophet, then she asks "Why do they use any scriptures at all? When they do that they are appealing to past prophets"
Double-standard, right? So, if what Brigham Young taught shouldn´t be considered true because more recent prophets said so, then there´s no reason to ever appeal to the Book of Mormon or the Bible. Those prophets go to the back of the shelf.
It would be funny if they did a scripture version of sayings of modern "apostles and prophets" – "let´s open to 1 Hinckley chapter 6 verse 3. It says `I don´t know that we teach that´, now lets memorize that verse to help us answer those people that don´t stop asking about polygamy…"
hey fmelo, thanks for taking the time to listen already, and put some good points from the discussion out here for those of us who aren't getting to it yet. 🙂
It doesn't take long for the whole thing to fall a part but that's why Mormonism survives on the "burning in the bosom". The "God spoke to me" scenario covers a multitude of sins-so to speak. If God told me it's true and if I'm getting constant messages from God, this must be superior to the "old revelation".
I run into Pentecostal Christians who believe God is speaking to them also. The main difference between them and Mormons is that the PCs respect the Bible and hold to it as the main source of truth. The ones that stray from a Biblical foundation end-up going down paths that ultimately take them way outside mainstream Christian thought and practice.
The "burning in the bosom" comes out of evangelical Christian revivalism of Joseph Smith's day. Go and read about Charles Finney and his vision/experience in the woods. You will see how that great borrower Joseph Smith came-up with his "vision". Joe's motto should be "have magic rock, will travel".
@ about 44 min. a lds called and asked that same question we are tired of hearing: "What is your purpose" Then the guy answered that Joseph said specifically that the presbyterians were false(he is one), and that every religion denomination is false, and they were showing through the Bible that Joseph was wrong.
The lady then said "according to your interpretation of the Bible" He then replied, "no scripture is of private interpretation"(he nailed it – but that lady probably never heard of exegesis).
Then he goes on to complain why it is ok for mormon missionaries to go around telling their priests are only there for the money, and they are all corrupt, etc.
I also like when he says how he hates this political correctness that allows that "any insult can be hurled at Bible-believing Christians but in the moment we try to respond with respect somehow we are being mean"
That´s true – the victim mentality is so deep in a mormon´s brain they can´t see their hypocrisy when they get mad at others for telling the truth about their religion. Only they have the right to tell everyone they are of the church of the devil…
I give him props for saying that mormons will go to hell if they keep worshipping a god of their own making.
I´ll shut up now and let other people comment.
" Go and read about Charles Finney and his vision"
I already read that – i was flabbergasted. I asked myself: "Even his first vision was a work of plagiarism?" That guy wasn´t ashamed to "borrow" from anything…
@37 min Jason Wallace says something like "We have nothing to fear from the truth".
AMEN!
The prophet is the source of pure doctrine
The prophet will never teach you false doctrine
The prophet is a reliable guide in scriptural interpretation
All these are actual claims coming from men who, for the most part live moral lives. Yet are they more
morally worthy than those in the other churches that they have lumped together to call "corrupt and
abominable" ? For 180 years prophets of the Mormon Church have advertised their authoratative
claim as " the legally appointed channel " that God uses . This behavior is nothing new. Men who
sincerely believe that their inner convictions have to be that of God speaking to them , yet they only
have proven to be prophets who offer , "….a vision of their own heart and not out of the mouth of
the Lord." [Jer.23:16 ] The resulting track record of Mormon prophets/apostles constitutes a pattern.
A pattern of confusion on doctrine, a vascillating on teachings which to often are seen to be nothing
more than guessing, as it were, on what is said to be God's "counsel " .
cont.
Yet through all this the authoratative claims still come.Still those who innocently submit to
their leaders prophetic office are being spiritually short changed. The prophets and apostles
of the Mormon church have become roadblocks to God, thus preventing sincere Latter-Day
Saints from experiencing a fuller relationship with God. May the LDS people bring their moral
lifestyle , their families and faith , and experiance the liberating truth of trading a prophet for
THE Prophet and His promises. Jn.4:7-26 ; Heb.7:25
ww
WW,
I think you may just get the "post of the day" award for this line….."Men who sincerely believe that their inner convictions have to be that of God speaking to them……" Man is that the bottom line in Mormonism. Mormonism can be dismantled and dispatched with cool headed analysis and that is why it is so difficult to dislodge a devout Mormon from their emotional attachment to the religion. There's a concept in sales that "people buy things emotionally and then try to justify their purchase with logic". That's why Mormons come up with all sorts of fantastic explanations for the clear evidence against Mormonism being true. I can still remember as a little child finding out there wasn't a Santa Claus. As a child, Christmas just didn't seem the same at that time without the fantasy of the jolly old elf. I even tried to pretend that their really was such a man with a red suit who brought presents but, alas, the fantasy was dead and I had to grow up.
Just think of the pressure a Mormon is under who begins to see that the numbers just don't add up in Mormonism but they feel they need to keep believing because they think that God has spoken to them. Sandra Tanner has an interesting life story regarding her and her husband Gerald's exit from Mormonism. She said they finally got to the point where they decided all of it was a lie but they'd hold on to the BoM. After a time, they figured out that the BoM was false also and then they were truly free to pursue a relationship with the One, true, living God.
In my retirement I still to a lot of consulting in K-12 schools. One of the interesting things I often run into in under performing schools are teachers, who despite all evidence that what they are doing is failing, want to continue doing it because that's where their philosophy and comfort zone is. Convictions can be a very good and necessary thing but when evidence runs contrary to our convictions, something has to give. Either we deny the evidence and keep doing and believing the same thing or we make necessary changes. Having had to take teachers through the process of change has shown me that people fall into different categories. Some feel liberated by the information and move forward. Others just get stuck and can't move and continue to deny reality.
I can't imagine what it must be like for a true believing Mormon to have doubts begin to creep into their minds that what they have invested in so heavily, is not true. And then there's that whole matter of thinking that God has spoken to you and that's not true and the leaders you have believed in and were not going to lead you astray, are merely men who themselves are clinging to a false reality.
That's why I feel real empathy for Mormons who cannot bring themselves to trust in God because of their experience in Mormonism. There must be that feeling of never wanting to invest and trust again having once been burned. There is life after Mormonism. Reaching out to God through His Son Jesus Christ provides a solid ground upon which to build a life of faith.
falcon, I think there are a significant number of Mormons who do in fact see that there is a big problem with their leaders being able to deliver acurrate spiritual guidance. These sincere people are kept so busy in the church that many of them don't pursue their concerns. Also, because they've been taught that to reguard submission to the prophet is a way to curry God's favor for their lives, that they're somewhat scared to leave the Church as this would bring God's displeasure etc. Sad. Jesus took the time to issue a warning that false prophets would come. False prophets are not always devious perverted men ( like Brian David Mitchell , the prophet who kidnapped Elizabeth Smart ) they can be men who live moral lives. They are false because they teach doctrines that not in accord with God's Word, and depending on the doctrine, this can be ultimately lethal spiritually. Our prayer for the Mormon people is that they might be saved —Rom.10:1-2
Sandra is a good apologist for the Christian faith. Apologist is someone charged with the task "to give a defense" of the basic doctrine of the Christian faith. Sandra has been on both sides of the issue having been a Mormon. She knows Mormonism inside and out and draws clear distinctions between this religion and Biblical orthodox Christianity. Joseph Smith, like other false prophets, claimed to have a revelation of God. This revelation changed over time as did his story regarding how he received it. Joseph Smith's claimed revelation has been rejected by Christians because it is not only inconsistent with orthodox Christian doctrine, but it isn't even close enough to be called heresy. It is simply "another" gospel.
The apostle Paul, in Galatians 1:12 talks about his conversion and says, "For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ." Paul then writes in Galatians 2:2, "And it was because of a revelation that I went up; and I submitted to them the gospel which I preach among the Gentiles but I did so in private to those who were of reputation, for fear that I might be running , or had run, in vain."
Again and again, in his letters, Paul says to maintain sound doctrine. The doctrine of the Church is clearly laid out in the Bible. Joseph Smith not only went against this doctrine but saw fit to change the Bible as he went about creating his own flawed translation.
Supported by their own feelings, supposing that these (feelings) are a message from God, Mormons follow after Smith's folly and do so to their own spiritual destruction.
Sandra and the host of this program are presenting facts about Mormonism. Although they draw some conclusions and provide some speculation based on the facts, the bottom line is that they unveil information that, when added up, points to Mormonism as being a figment of Joseph Smith's imagination. Mormonism has attempted to present itself in the best possible light by shading and hiding the facts. It can't stand up to close scrutiny. It is sold on the basis of revelation. Mormon revelation is the product of implanted suggestions and emotions. From the time that the Mormon missionaries encounter a prospect to the point where they close the deal, the power of suggestion is used to move the (prospect) towards an emotional experience that is suppose to "reveal" that Mormonism is true.
I don't know what the percentage of people who are recruits (not born into Mormonism) eventually become temple Mormons, but based on the overall statistics, only about one-third of those on the rolls of the Mormon church are active. For recruits, my guess is that eventually the feel goodism of the emotional experience wears off and the routine of the Mormon religious experience becomes a dreadful, devoid of the spirit, drag. There are some, to be sure, that enjoy Mormonism much like some enjoy fraternal organizations like Free Masonry with its secret ceremonies replete with temples, costumes, secret passwords and secret handshakes.
But at the end of the day, the fact of the matter is that Mormonism presents another Gospel that cannot deliver on its promises of men becoming gods.
falcon, you brought out some great points. When I ,think of the word " sound" [ sound doctrine-
1 Tim. 4:6 and elsewhere ] because I was raised on a ranch this was a term used to describe
if a horse was lame or not. If it was healthy then it was considered to be " sound". I think an
analogy can be drawn from this in relation to false gospels. A healthy/sound gospel is the one
that agrees with what Paul taught since he was a apostle called of God. A false or counterfeit
gospel is one which is not sound or healthy (spiritually) It would be like a horse with 3 good legs,
for the rider that would only take him/her a little ways down the trail, not far enough though !
A sound horse would take its rider all the way home. In like manner a counterfeit gospel can take a
sincere person only so far, not far enough to get all the way home(to heaven). Such is the
Mormon gospel.
ww
While the word "change" is very much applicable to Mormonism and its god, "change" is not a word that can be applied to the God of the Bible or the basic tenants of the faith established by His Son Jesus Christ. The Church, known as the Body of Christ, includes as members those who have been born again by the Spirit of God. While as Christians, our knowledge of God and our relationship with Him changes as we grow in grace, God does not change. We can never hope to know everything about God or know what He knows, either in this life or the next.
Any time men begin to speculate that they can be like God in substance, they have entered into the prideful sin that contributed to the downfall of Lucifer. Of the many errors of Mormonism, the one that supposes that their is a father God with numerous goddess wives who procreate spirit children who themselves will progress to being gods, is the most obnoxious. This isn't a matter of spiritual understanding and deep spiritual knowledge, it's just the pride and ignorance of man.
What a questioning Mormon needs to ask is, "By what spirit was Joseph Smith led as he developed his ideas about God?" There is a spirit in the world that is not the Spirit of God. To verify whether or not a prophetic word or revelation is of God, it must be tested. Getting a "feeling" is not a true test because a false spirit can produce positive feelings. The OT is replete with admonitions to God's people about following false spirits and false prophets. One only needs to look into Joseph Smith's life to see what spirit was leading him. He was up to his eyeballs in the practice of divination which is forbidden in the Bible. Some Mormons are so enamored with Smith that they alibi, make excuses for and justify what is clearly his involvement in folk magic. Smith never repented of this involvement but used divination to conjure-up the BoM. It's a well established fact that he used his magic seer stone to "translate" the BoM. His technique was to put the magic rock into his hat and then shove his face into the (hat) and speak out what he said he saw in the form of writing. This is a guy who was not only a liar and a cheat but a false prophet who led, and continues to lead, people into spiritual darkness and an eternity separated from God.
It's no accident that Smith, led by the spirit of this world, declared that men could become gods. This is an affront to the living God and will not end well for those following Smith's destructive path.
and he says that without having a team of "scholars" to twist the truth for him, in case such truth contradicts his beliefs…
" Also, because they've been taught that to reguard submission to the prophet is a way to curry God's favor for their lives, that they're somewhat scared to leave the Church as this would bring God's displeasure etc."
and after they are faithful and strive as much as possible to serve in their callings, and do their visits, read their scriptures, funny enough, the blessings don´t necessarily come… when they realize that things are getting more difficult they never stop to think that maybe it is the church´s fault – maybe it´s because of false promises… when they seek their leaders to help them understand why, after all the years of struggle they are not getting any of the so promised blessings they are told that either they have to have more patience, or god is trying their faithfulness or it´s satan working to make them fall. It´s a no-win situation.
That´s what happens when you put your faith in men.
"They are false because they teach doctrines that not in accord with God's Word"
That´s why they are careful to explain that a modern prophet´s word is more important than that of a dead prophet…
" I feel real empathy for Mormons who cannot bring themselves to trust in God because of their experience in Mormonism. There must be that feeling of never wanting to invest and trust again having once been burned."
That´s been a trip for me… figuring out how to trust God… i thought i knew Him and we were very close… then i discovered that god was false, and the real God had been keeping me all along and had brought me where i am right now… in some vague way that could somewhat be how the Israelites must have felt leaving their lives behind in Egypt and learning about the true ways of the One True God… it´s scary at first, but it´s so freeing and everything makes so much more sense it adds a new value to life and faith. Now i can say i have a living faith.
Great analogy!
" Mormonism has attempted to present itself in the best possible light by shading and hiding the facts."
or as Boyd K. Packer puts it – some truths are not useful.
" only about one-third of those on the rolls of the Mormon church are active."
Sometimes not even that… i remember when i was a secretary, we had about 500 people on record, but only an average of 80-90 attended…
"For recruits, my guess is that eventually the feel goodism of the emotional experience wears off and the routine of the Mormon religious experience becomes a dreadful, devoid of the spirit, drag."
I grew up on the church and that happened to me too, when i got back from my mission… if it wasn´t for my family i would probably have fallen away from the church even though i still strongly believed all of it. I just wanted a vacation from the church(i was called to the elders quorum on the very day i returned home from my mission). The problem was that i was driven by those feelings and it came to a point on my mission that i stopped feeling anything, i was so tired and stressed by the awful routine, that it became a matter of keeping my word and doing the job as i had promised i would. That never lead me to question the church. I came home and i was so burned that i didn´t even want to touch a Book of Mormon anymore – even so i still accepted callings and taught sunday school, repeating the same things to other as i had throughout my entire life.
I still believed all of it but i was really struggling, the "magic" had worn off… the promised mission blessings hadn´t come, and i was absolutely miserable for a long while. Still i believed it all and thought i was the one with the problem and kept on trying to be faithful and doing things as i was supposed to because of my testimony. Until God finally decided to drop the Truth bomb – and then that weak foundation went to space, but not before much suffering, scarring and struggle with my own feelings, friends and family members.
"how BY began to teach that God was really Adam. This wasn't just some passing blue sky speculation. "
and the fact that church leaders tried so hard to twist the truth and call it all a theory is very telling – they are having to hide the proof that they don´t have any real connection with God. So much for slandering the Pope and the Catholic Church.
"Of the many errors of Mormonism, the one that supposes that their is a father God with numerous goddess wives who procreate spirit children who themselves will progress to being gods, is the most obnoxious."
the mormons would react to your statement just like that caller: "according to your interpretation"
hahahahhahaha
the host should have said – well, it´s far better than Joseph´s interpretation…
"Getting a "feeling" is not a true test because a false spirit can produce positive feelings."
Then a mormon would say something like "well, a feeling from peace has to come from God, the devil can´t produce good things…"
another way to turn that around would be with Moroni 10:6 "And whatsoever thing is good is just and true; wherefore, nothing that is good denieth the Christ, but acknowledgeth that he is."
"see – we do good things and good doesn´t deny Christ"
That turns the grace of God into generic good works… so, someone who denies Christ but helps poor children can be a witness for Christ through his good works. How twisted and unbiblical that is.
On utlm.org, under What's New, a new video of Sandra on someone's back porch describing her life story. Part of it was printing proof of what they were saying to their friends and mostly family from many different sources and no one believed what they were saying. They kept printing more documents from more sources to prove their point. They didn't know this would be their life's work. Her mother or grandmother had questions. Asked her to ask her teachers, and her teacher's told her she was 'causing trouble.' Of course, also under mormon research ministry videos, under Church Presentations.
f melo, Sometimes trying to figure out how Mormons reason can really be a challenge !
Several top Mormon leaders teach that we are to judge everyone's doctrine by the
"yardstick" of the Standard Works. Then another one says that the Living prophet's
counsel is more important than the past /dead prophets.Yet its the dead prophets
who penned the Standard Works. I think I'll stick with the Bible, I don't think it has
a expiration date stamped on it.
ww
f-melo, Thanks. I appreciate your sharing what life was like for you as a Mormon.
" I think I'll stick with the Bible, I don't think it has a expiration date stamped on it."
lol – just loved that phrase!
Knowing Jesus, as He is revealed in His holy Word the Bible, is the real bottom line here. Calling a being "Jesus" and then attributing a nature to Him that is anything but Biblical, is a sin God will not stand for. In order for "Jesus" to be effective in our lives in forgiving our sins, we need to engage the real Jesus. Simply applying the name "Jesus" to someone won't bring salvation. Such a person may as well be praying to a South American baseball player whose parents named Jesu.
The real Biblical Jesus is God. He is not "a god" as the Jehovah Witnesses claim nor is He the offspring of a father/mother god tandem that live near a fictitious planet land called Kolob. The Kolob Jesus doesn't exist.
Jesus is God incarnate. As such He is the only qualified Savior. Putting our faith in Him brings us eternal life, not through our personal works of righteousness, but through His sacrifice on the cross. The Mormon Jesus has no blood and without the shedding of blood the righteous anger of God cannot be satisfied. Because He loves us, God has extended His mercy to us that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. The righteousness that we can claim does not come on the basis of our efforts/works. It comes on the basis of what God did for us through His Son Jesus Christ.
Knowing who God is, is the starting point in securing our salvation.
falcon, you said, " Knowing Jesus, as He is revealed in His holy Word the Bible, is the real
bottom line here. Calling a being 'Jesus' and then attributing a nature to Him that is anything
but Biblical, is a sin God will not stand for."
You hit the nail on the head . I think the apostle Paul was trying to get that across to those in
the church at Corinth [2 Cor.11 :4 ].
ww
Thanks for hosting this blog.
The changing view of God is a fascinating issue. I suppose my first question to the posters here would be, who introduced the term Trinity? It is not in the Bible. When was this change introduced and by whom? Constantine? Augustine?
Now, let's explore the first claim your guest made, that the Book of Mormon teaches that God and Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one being.
TG, Jesus Christ, Divine Sonship: 1 Ne 11:21 Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father; TG, Jesus Christ, Only Begotten Son: 2 Nephi 25:12; Jacob 4:11; Alma 13:5, be reconciled to God through the atonement of Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father. Helaman 5:11, Christ has power given Him by the Father.
The first claim your guest made was patently false even with a cursory scan of the LDS Topical guide. Certainly a careful reading of the Book of Mormon fully justifies the current doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS. Frankly, the remainder of your guest's claims were equally flawed. Your program was, with all due respect, a mass of confusion.
We appreciate your "truth claim" and your absolute right to make it under the Constitution and before God. We Mormons agree wholeheartedly with you that "No one has anything to fear from the truth." (minute 47) We claim that, with great respect for you and all of our Trinitarian Christian friends personally, the "orthodox" doctrine of the Trinity is blasphemy, created in the minds of confused scholars and not a few corrupt politicians making money in religious garb.
Great blasphemy is to corrupt the relationship between God, Jesus and human beings.
For example, we "Mormons" believe that "God unrevealed remains unknown" and the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Would to God, as Moses exclaimed, that all God's people were prophets! If a preacher of the Holy Bible is not a prophet, s/he ought to get out of the business.
The person who, like Peter, has had the fact that Jesus is the Christ revealed to him is now one of what Paul referred to as "stewards of the mysteries," (Matt 16:17; 1 Cor 4:1) or at least a steward of that particular mystery. Now he understands the mystery. It is still a mystery, because a mystery is simply information that God must (and will) reveal to you or you will never understand it. The natural (voluntarily locked inside his 5 senses) man cannot receive such information. It is foolishness to him. (1 Cor 2:14) We urge all to pray humbly to your Father in heaven for answers. (Jms 1:5; Alma 34; D&C 112:10) He has all the answers, and I know He is delighted to commune with one of His children who pleads for knowledge and wisdom with a determination to do what He tells one to do.
Man’s relationship to Jesus Christ and to God the Father, however, is hardly a mystery to any independent-thinking, Bible reading Christian. Jn 20:17; Rom 8:16-18; Rev 3:21; 1 Cor 13:12; 2 Tim 2:12; Matt 5:48; 3 Nephi 12:48; 2 Nephi 33:9-12, etc. etc. The Prophet Joseph didn’t originate this doctrine or even need to have it revealed. The Holy Bible clearly teaches that we are God’s children and joint-heirs with Christ, not their eternally inferior pets as the Trinitarian Christian churches teach.
Another couple of serious errors in your and Ms. Tanner's presentation:
Section 101 was not a revelation. It was voted on and inserted into the Doctrine and Covenants by conference in the absence of Joseph Smith and Frederick G. Williams. (I believe it was called the Book of Commandments at that time, but will have to check that.) When Section 132 was published, a revelation through a prophet, section 101 was properly removed.
Bible is a primary standard for Mormons around the world. As He has since the beginning of time, He continues to communicate to His children today. The canon of scripture is not closed with the Bible. Of course there will be more inspired scripture to prophets, pastors, teachers, fathers, mothers, old men, sons and daughters in the Last Days. Heaven knows we need direct guidance and protection today, and every intelligent child of God knows it, too.
Matthew 7:7
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
We foolish Mormons promise that the promises of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are still in effect today.
Fourth generation Mormon (ex) Thelma Geer testifies: " Thus Mormon leaders heap insult upon
insult on God the Father as they seek to turn Him into just one of many self-exalted men. He
supposedly has not only passed through all the experiences of mortal life…..but has had to pass
through the Mormon temple endowment and marriage services just as all Mormon men do. "
Sandra interview, Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=I6UoxVoxF_A&f…
" even the Son of the Eternal Father"
Why don´t you address why this verse was changed from the original 1830 edition? That´s why you can even make that comment, otherwise you would have to believe the father and the son are the exact same being as Abinadi stated they were.
"e claim that, with great respect for you and all of our Trinitarian Christian friends personally, the "orthodox" doctrine of the Trinity is blasphemy, created in the minds of confused scholars and not a few corrupt politicians making money in religious garb."
There comes the same brainwashed argumentation again… Prove what you just said. Your leaders are more confused than any of the church fathers, or any of the ancient councils. Have you ever read your own Lectures on Faith that was suddenly removed from D&C without notification? Have you read how that part of D&C said God was a personage of spirit? How come your leaders keep changing their minds? First God is a spirit, then god is Adam, then god is Elohim, i mean, your so-called prophets have as much revelation from god as a kid in kindergarten.
So, to return the insult, i will paraphrase you – with great respect for all of our non-Christian mormon friends personally, the doctrine of "Eternal Progression" is blasphemy, created in the minds of confused "false prophets" and not a few corrupt "so-called apostles" making money in religious garb.
Your church is the 80 Billion dollar corporation…. and you´re only allowed to go through the temple if you buy your ticket with 10% of your income every year… Want to go to heaven to live forever with your families? Your have to buy your ticket.
"Great blasphemy is to corrupt the relationship between God, Jesus and human beings."
Amen.
Repent of that sin, otherwise, you know, you´ll go to hell, just like the guy said in the video.
" is hardly a mystery to any independent-thinking, Bible reading Christian"
You MUST be joking me here… independent? Your entire idea of God is shaped by Mr. Joseph Smith jr. You just made me laugh so hard, i can barely keep typing… but i´ll try to finish…
" The Holy Bible clearly teaches that we are God’s children and joint-heirs with Christ, not their eternally inferior pets as the Trinitarian Christian churches teach. "
Hey, man, i think you skipped a few verses, but i´ll show you one. Joh 1:12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"
How come God gave them power to BECOME sons? I thought they were already all sons and daughters of God… curious…
" The Prophet Joseph didn’t originate this doctrine or even need to have it revealed"
Really? I wonder why Christianity in general doesn´t show that… i guess everyone was reading the Bible wrong until Joseph came along and illuminated us all.
"Section 101 was not a revelation" I guess you missed your own General Conference this past month. Was Kimball or Benson that they mentioned twice saying that a prophet doesn´t have to say "thus saith the Lord" for his words to be considered revelation. Also, did Joseph immediately had that revelation removed when he found out?
"The canon of scripture is not closed with the Bible"
Why not? Jesus finished the work God gave Him! He finished the preparations for the children of men, and He told us all we need to do already! You do like to despise the words of Jesus when they don´t fit with you agenda, don´t you?
"The canon of scripture is not closed with the Bible. Of course there will be more inspired scripture to prophets, pastors, teachers, fathers, mothers, old men, sons and daughters in the Last Days"
Really, pastors? Even without the mormon priesthood?
"Heaven knows we need direct guidance and protection today, and every intelligent child of God knows it, too"
Yeah, i´m glad God revealed everything already and the Apostles wrote it down so we can read it in those difficult times. You know, the Bible doesn´t talk about the dangers of pornography – and it doesn´t have to, because the sin behind it is already covered!
And if you think we should embrace "new revelation", at least provide a revelation that doesn´t contradict God´s words…
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you"
I did that and God showed me mormonism is completely and thoroughly false.
"We foolish Mormons promise that the promises of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are still in effect today"
Yes, they are through and ONLY through Jesus Christ for those who believe in Him and are saved by His Grace.
actually God does talk about the dangers of pornography in a sense – in David´s sin with Bathsheba.
Strangely enough though, the son of that sin, Solomon, was the one chosen by the Lord to build the temple… imagine that in a mormon church!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jackcv, thanks for taking the time to particapate. I could not view the video as my computer wouldn't play it fast enough. There is a few things that I would like to comment on that you said. You mentioned about the Book of Mormon," fully justifies the current doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS ". It is true the BM teaches
about God, that is not a whole different from the Bible, yet the interpretation that Mormon leaders extract from
the Bible and the BM concerning God, tend to run way past these scriptures. As far as the term "Trinity" not
being in the Bible thats not a problem as LDS also have terms that although are not in the scriptures, the
concepts these terms describe are. As far as polygamy and Section 101 is concerned, you missed that one
by a mile. Why would the whole church vote on it if it wasn't suppose to be received as a revelation? So
much for personal revelation. The Church law on marriage , which section 101 points out, was also published
several times after the conference with Joseph Smith's full knowledge( see 10-1-1842 Times and Seasons)
cont, You also said concerning man's relationship to Jesus Christ and to God the Father is hardly a mystery to any independent thinking Bible believing Christian. Thats true. God through His Word has revealed the truth about who He is and our nature and how we have been reconciled to God throughJesus. You mentioned that we are joint heirs with Christ and not " their eternally inferior pets as the Trinitarian Christian churches teach." I think that this is just your way of trying to say how as a Mormon your hope is to become an Almighty God and thus be worshipped one day. Most Mormons can't come right out and say that ,so they veil it through terms like "joint heirs" etc.Obviously this concept has to be read into the Bible. Sad. See Romans 1:23. ww
BOTTOM LINE: It was the church 1700 yrs ago that created through oral tradition, and some manuscripts what is known as the bible. The great "Apostacy" Joseph Smith claimed happened 1800 yrs ago. If satan was hold of the church 1800 yrs ago, then the bible and anyone believing in it must follow satan, since it was satans followers who put the bible together. That means God, the Holy Ghost, and Jesus were devils. Then Any Mormon Who reads the bible, or anything relating to it, and believes in it, is a Satanist…BOTTOM LINE