The Mormon Church’s Teachings of the Living Prophets Student Manual Religion 333 quotes Mormonism’s 13th prophet-president Ezra Taft Benson,
“Of all mortal men, we should keep our eyes most firmly fixed on the captain, the prophet, seer, and revelator, and president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This is the man who stands closest to the fountain of living waters. There are some heavenly instructions that we can only receive through the prophet. A good way to measure your standing with the Lord is to see how you feel about, and act upon, the inspired words of his earthly representative, the prophet-president. The inspired words of the president are not to be trifled with.” (17)
About a month ago Thomas Monson, the current LDS prophet-president, spoke to members of his church at the Church’s April General Conference. At least one Mormon blogger took President Monson’s words to heart and compiled a list of “30 things he directly instructs Latter-day Saints to do,” copied from the text of the prophet’s Conference addresses.
There’s nothing on the list that wouldn’t already be familiar to most Latter-day Saints, but it made me wonder how many Mormons are serious enough about following their prophet to have made their own lists.
After April’s General Conference Elaine Dalton, president of the Young Women organization of the Mormon Church, addressed the idea of “Following the Lord’s anointed.” She said Latter-day Saint women must be “riveted” on the words of the Church’s prophets, seers and revelators because “Prophets speak for God.” To illustrate an important principle Mrs. Dalton told the following story about two women walking and talking together:
“One was a member of the Church and the other was not. In an effort to share the gospel with her friend, the Church member said, ‘I am so excited because it is general conference time.’ To which the friend inquired, ‘What is that?’ The woman then said, ‘This is a time held every six months when members of the Church gather to hear the words of prophets, seers and revelators. These words are translated and broadcast all over the world.’ The neighbor became very animated and asked, ‘You mean, you believe in prophets who can see things that are not yet seen?’ To which she replied. ‘Yes, that is exactly right.’ The two walked along in silence as the woman’s friend absorbed this. At length her friend asked, ‘So tell me, what did they tell you to do last general conference?’ The Church member thought for a long while. And then admitted, ‘You know, I can’t remember.’ This prompted one additional observation from her friend. ‘Then what good does it do to belong to a Church who believes in living prophets if you don’t remember what they told you to do?’”
This is a good question, especially for people who are taught that the measure of their standing with God is how they “feel about, and act upon, the inspired words of his earthly representative, the prophet-president.”
The Bible says that our standing before God is not dependent upon what we do, but upon what He has done (Romans 5:1-11). This causes Christians to rejoice; not rejoicing for the words of a latter-day prophet quickly forgotten, but for the love and the sacrifice of our eternal Savior who died to give us life.
Mormonism makes “President Monson’s Marching Orders” imperative and something not to be trifled with. So for Mormons, and for others who are interested, I’ve broken down President Monson’s directives as they appeared on Huston’s blog. My list contains 38 items — President Monson’s April 2011 to-do list for faithful Latter-day Saints hoping to gain favor with God:
- Go to the temple for themselves and the dead
- Pay their tithing
- Contribute to the missionary fund
- Be worthy of the priesthood
- Be worthy to attend the temple
- Qualify for a temple recommend
- Use the priesthood to bless lives
- Safeguard and treasure the priesthood
- Avoid pornography, bad language and addictions
- Do not watch movies and TV that portray bad behavior
- Read the Book of Mormon
- Gain a testimony
- Obey the commandments
- Pray regularly
- Study scripture
- Attend church
- Attend seminary
- Get married
- Be careful in the choice of a spouse
- Be loyal to spouses
- Respect and love wives
- Make any needed repairs to marriages
- Do not allow marriages to be in jeopardy
- Stand above the ways of the world
- Be honorable and decent
- Be above reproach
- Go to the temple regularly
- Keep temple ordinances as a goal
- Put a picture of a temple in every bedroom
- Teach children about the importance of the temple
- Remember covenants made in the temple
- Sacrifice whatever necessary to attend the temple
- Follow in the footsteps of Christ
- Remember the messages from General Conference
- Read and study the Conference edition of Ensign magazine
- Be good citizens and neighbors
- Be examples of honesty and integrity
The article starts with
This only applies when they want it to, and when it is the most currant prophet is speaking since all other prophets got it wrong. Can you say, Adam God? Blood atonement? Black's holding the priesthood? I mean how many things did the former prophets teach that we no longer need to obey, or even believe was inspired? Where's LEE to tell me I am wrong and fill me in on the facts? How about any mormon for that fact? You guys all go into hiding and are pretending non of this stuff was ever taught?
Man where to start? I think Rick has asked and answered the most obvious point and that has to do with that Mormons actually believe they have a living prophet that carries them messages directly from the Mormon god. The track record of these prophets, as Rick has pointed out is pretty dismal. The can't, don't and won't predict the future. They'll start looking like failed psychics because they'll be a record to examine. These guys won't even clarify Mormon teachings of past prophets. I'm thinking these prophets work off of a generational dispensation model where by stuff only counts if it's said today……..unless they want the old stuff to count. It gets very confusing for those of us who don't drink the Mormon Kool-Aide.
Here is a quotation I believe is relevant to this topic:
"Say with confidence: 'Christ, the Son of God, was given not for the righteous, but for sinners. If I had no sin I should not need Christ. No, Satan, you cannot delude me into thinking I am holy. The truth is, I am all sin. My sins are not imaginary transgressions, but sins against the first table, unbelief, doubt, despair, contempt, hatred, ignorance of God, ingratitude towards Him, misuse of His name, neglect of His Word, etc.; and sins against the second table, dishonor of parents, disobedience of government, coveting of another's possessions, etc. Granted that I have not committed murder, adultery, theft, and similar sins in deed, nevertheless I have committed them in the heart, and therefore I am a transgressor of all the commandments of God. Because my transgressions are multiplied and my own efforts at self-justification rather a hindrance than a furtherance, therefore Christ the Son of God gave Himself into death for my sins.' To believe this is to have eternal life." — Martin Luther
Again, nothing about Jesus! Since when are the words of the prophets more important than the words of Jesus?
the crazy thing is, this is their GOSPEL
(good news? hardly)
So then there's the "list". Ah, the wonderful world of legalism. To be fair, there are legalistic Christian sects also. It's not about people making themselves holy before God. At least that might have some merit as long as the person understood that their efforts have nothing to do with salvation. No this is about "control". Set a high mark for the poor plebe. Make him feel guilty, worthless and totally defective for not getting a check-mark by each item on the list.
Stop and think, how many of the items on the list do the Mormon leaders (do)? Do you think they feel one bit guilty? Of course not. The list is for the little people that kick in all the dough and work their fingers to the bone for the organization. And even after "all they can do", the rank and file can't do enough to satisfy the system.
The key to eternal life is faith in Jesus and establishing a relationship with Him. It's not serving some organization's expectations. This is where Mormonism is nothing like Christianity. Mormonism is about faith in the system whom they mistakenly think is God.
How many Mormons, who attend church on a regular basis, take this stuff seriously? Now we know that two-thirds of Mormons on the membership rolls have gone inactive. Can anyone see why? I went over the list and I think #34 is a good one but the problem is that to Mormons, Jesus is just a good example, he isn't God. And the priesthood? Give me a break. Those who are into it are probably experts at psychological manipulation. Joe Schmuck, who had no religious convictions but was sympathetic and had a way of connecting with people could do as much as these guys who think they've got some powerful tool in their spiritual tool box.
Is it any wonder folks get tired of the grind of the Mormon system and bail-out.
Yes, SetFreeByJC, that's unfortunately true:
"The plan of salvation, or code of laws, which is known as the gospel of Jesus Christ, was adopted in the heavens, before the foundation of the world was laid.” [Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:121]
The LDS gospel is the law. This is the key to understanding the LDS religion. While certain aspects of the LDS code of laws reveal their (and everyone's) guilt, the law provides no solution to their guilt. Only judgment, followed inevitably by condemnation.
Try looking over the following list, and ask yourself what they each have in common:
* Temple cards
* One's own promises
* Family tree research
What do these have in common? Not one can ever make you righteous.
Jesus Christ is the Christian's righteousness (Romans 4).
Not one mention of the name "Jesus" and even "Christ" is way near the bottom (#34). Could it be anymore obvious that Mormonism is an anti-Christ system?
Lord Jesus, open the eyes of all those blind people!
So how many "active" Mormons actually get into this do program? I would love to see some demographics that would shed light on, for example, the folks who are heading to the temple on a regular basis to do ritual work. My guess is that the people who get into it would be the same type and number who would be very active is some type of fraternal organization.
I asked Andy Watson, who knows these things better than I do, about it one time. He told me that what happens with a segment of the Mormon population is that they just settle for a lower level of Mormon heaven. Others say they will do the work after they die, in the next world so to speak. I think we must remember that the whole point of the doing is to get on track to possibly becoming a god. Beyond that, there's really not much point in it.
The temple recommend is important I guess so that a person doesn't have to sit outside during a family wedding. Nothing like holding an "I am worthy card." I don't know if that could get someone a discount at a Mormon place of business but at least it keeps people in good standing with grandma and grandpa.
Is there anything on the list about wearing the magic underwear? That's another one of these pointless Mormon nuisances.
And so what's the point of all this doing? It makes God happy, huh? Well maybe the Mormon god but not the God who reveals Himself in His Word the Bible.
These Mormons sound like class A Pharisees. That's what they were into. A whole bunch of rules, regulations, rituals and a whole lot of show. The Apostle Paul who was quite proficient at the Parasitical system said that what ever he gained from it was rubbish in comparison to the upward call of Jesus Christ and knowing Him personally.
But the list generated above is what false religious systems are built on. Remember what Paul also said about these things having the appearance of wisdom and/or righteousness?
So maybe the Mormon god is into making his Mormon subjects jump through hoops, many of which were designed by the Free Masons. What nonsense. God knows those who are His and they respond to His voice. The god voice Mormons respond to is as much an idol as the stone images worshiped by heathens.
That´s the "simple" Gospel?
And that´s for last General Conference, would someone who has a lot of time in his hands please compile a list of the things required not only by the prophet but also by the "apostles", because after all their word is supposed to be as authoritative as that of the prophet.
Also, why are there modern apostles again? I thought the original Apostles were called to preach the Gospel in its purity as they heard it from Jesus Himself, and to bear witness of who He was, His works and His bodily resurrection… but those so-called apostles haven´t lived with Jesus, they weren´t taught by Jesus in person, they learned what they know just like everyone else, they are not even witnesses of Jesus´ bodily resurrection, i mean, even the Gospel Principles manual now says they´re special witnesses of the name of Christ. Gone are the days when mormons believed their apostles and prophets actually saw and talked with Jesus in person.
That´s one of the aspects that upsets me the most – that idea that there are laws above God Himself which He has to obey, or else… That´s so blasphemous, and yet mormons speak of it as the most normal, natural doctrine, as if it was even logic in some disturbing sense. Whatever…
What drives me crazy the most is when i hear someone talking about how God has to do such and such because He´s obligated by eternal laws… what a powerless god. Can you imagine a mormon praying and their god answering: "Sorry, son, i couldn´t get to you sooner because of the bureaucracy required by these eternal laws, and you know, i have to obey them if i want to stay god, so, i´ll try to answer your prayers better the next time. Could you hold on after the amen to answer a quality control survey, that´s a council of god´s idea, they want to start evaluating our service, they are trying to determine why so many people are leaving mormonism…"
"Of all mortal men, we should keep our eyes most firmly fixed on the captain, the prophet, seer, and revelator, and president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
So, i guess Jesus isn´t enough. In some way the statement above is somewhat a confession of guilt, of their sinfulness. In other words they are saying since Jesus was perfect and you´ll never be like Him, the next best thing is supposedly the "prophet", so keep your eyes on him instead. That´s what you get when you have leaders who never studied theology in their lives and have no idea what the Biblical Gospel is. One of the many problems with that is that the "prophet" is just as much of a wretched sinner as you are. If the Apostle Paul called himself the chief of sinners who does Thomas Monson think he is and why should i look to him as a guide to my life, as if he sets some kind of standard supposed to replace Jesus´ perfect standard?
Jesus well said "And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased"
You hit the nail in the head.
As Paul said " I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain" -Galatians 2:21
Rick, that was a great comment that exposes their hypocrisy. All of that is just propaganda – you repeat it all the time until people buy into the idea and stop thinking for themselves. They don´t even open the Bible to actually understand the Gospel, since all they need to know is what the current prophet is teaching for them at the present time, and it´s ok to dismiss past teachings that were for other generations, such as the teachings of BY concerning Adam-god, blood atonement, etc. See, God allows them to make mistakes, and to misunderstand revelation, etc. so, it´s no really their fault, they were never false prophets regardless…
For them Jesus did His part, now they´re up, it´s their turn to do theirs – to work their way into godhood.
Falcon, they don´t even have the guts to affirm what they believe openly in national TV! What better opportunity can someone have than one of the most watched talkshows of all time to openly speak about your beliefs and to exhort people to listen and join your church. Yet the "prophet" ran away from it like a coward, hiding behind lies and lame excuses. God sure doesn´t cause the same impression on the prophets today the same way He did with the prophets of the past who actually feared Him. But hey, GBH was a nice man anyways, right – it´s all about how magical his life with his wife was… that´s the gospel, isn´t it?
I mean, Mormons in general don´t care about forgiveness of sins unless it´s one of the big ones… so, the true Gospel takes a back seat to the gospel of the eternal families.
Also the reason why they don´t clarify old teachings is probably because they don´t even understand it themselves and if they start to speak about it they´ll let everybody know they don´t have a clue – so, they do like Apple does – use the reality distortion field to make people think they´re awesome, and of course, keep them distracted with all those cool doctrines that they must do, because, remember, how will you understand the deep doctrines if you don´t even keep the most basic commandments? Silly you…
"So how many "active" Mormons actually get into this do program?"
As far as i know, Mormons only use General Conference like the girl mentioned above, just to say how cool they are for having a living prophet… but i dare you to ask one of them, a week after General Conference, what were the words of the prophets, and they´ll stare at you blank.
They will use general conference themes in their regular sunday talks all year long, and yet, it´s just more of the same self-improvement stuff that people have tried and failed at so many times that they don´t even care anymore. When i asked some of my mormon friends about what they needed to do to be exalted all they said was that they needed baptism, priesthood, temple covenants and go to church and take the sacrament – that was it! So, honestly, while they think it´s great to listen to Thomas Monson because he´s the symbol of all the church stands for, and by association their lives, they, as i´ve known mormons throughout my life, don´t really care about that extra stuff – that´s like walking the second mile while they haven´t come close to walking the first yet.
OK, so do the people the Mormons are recruiting to join their organization get to see "the List" before they join. I'm guessing not, since word has it that the Mormons don't even break the news that they plan on becoming gods. In fact would someone tell me if it's standard operating procedure within the Mormon program to tell recruits the difference in the Mormon doctrine of the nature of God (with Christianity).
It seems a common theme within Mormonism to keep as much of this stuff quiet and then hope that the recruit can be slow cooked into accepting it. There's a reason why the drop out rate is so high in Mormonism. The return on investment to end up with one temple Mormon must really be unbelievable. I talked to a guy who had been a Mormon recruit and did in fact join. He had no idea that the Mormon "god" bore no resemblance to the God of the Bible. One trip through the temple was all he needed to dump the program and send in his resignation. His response was that it was all just too weird. I guess he just wasn't "spiritual" enough.
#34 " following in the footsteps of Christ " .Is there any connection between #34 and #32,33 ?
Are LDS following in Jesus' footsteps by going thru the Temple endowment ceremony ? Then
where is the scriptural reference for Jesus doing this ? Did'nt Brigham Young say to take up
the Bible and compare Mormon Church teachings with it to see if Mormonism passes that test ?
One of the things that I've come to realize/appreciate is that people, including Christians, have messy lives. If someone hopes to get themselves cleaned up enough to be acceptable to God let me warn them, it will take several life times and even at that one could never make themselves worthy. The Gospel of Jesus Christ makes us crooked people straight. The blood of Christ cleanses us in a way that a list with a million items on it could never do. All a list does is reflect how hopeless and pathetic we are in our efforts to please God. The items on the Mormon list aren't even things that God cares about. The items are merely some cult leaders attempt to lay guilt on the members and make them feel shame.
There are some things that we who are born again need to be mindful of. It's an attitude thing however, it's not something contained on a list. We who know God personally and have received His Son Jesus as our Lord and Savior don't carry to do lists around on a piece of paper. God's law is written on our hearts. That was the new covenant sealed in Jesus' blood. A to do list won't change someone's heart.
Mormons try to focus on behavior that they suppose will change them into gods.
What a curse they are under!
I guess that Constantine took out the temple ceremonies during the council of Nicea, or those pesky monks left it out when they were translating. Hmmm. If those rituals were so important to Salvation, don't you think that the early church fathers would have made sure they were continued and taught? Mormons just don't think. It's truly sad.
Matthew 24:23-25 (King James Version)
23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before.
If only they would listen to the True and Living Christ instead of men.
I guess that Constantine took out the temple ceremonies during the council of Nicea, or those pesky monks left it out when they were translating. Hmmm. If those rituals were so important to Salvation, don't they think that the early church fathers would have made sure they were continued and taught? Don't they think that God would have a way to make sure that information was not lost to us? This is what happens when we lose ourselves in the hero worship of men. Didn't Jesus warn us in advance that there would arise many false Christs and false prophets in Matthew? Mormons just don't think. It's truly sad. As far as keeping my eyes fixated on a man claiming to be a prophet, no thank you! I'll keep my eyes on Jesus.
The born-again Christian's "to do list":
#1. John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
#2. Refer to #1.
Sorry, my computer was on the blink yesterday! I didn't mean to put this twice!
Kate, great comment. As Mormons are constantly being told to " follow the prophet " they have
been persuaded that doing so is akin to following Jesus. While this might be true in some areas
by living morally, it runs aground when certain vital doctrines pertaining to a person's salvation
is concerned. Mormon leaders at one time gave counsel that their gospel encouraged LDS to
follow Jesus' footsteps by practicing polygamy. [ they actually used Jesus as an example ! ] . So
it's a good bet that any Conference now Mormon leadership might reveal more " new light" from God
on what it means for LDS to correctly follow in Jesus' footsteps. So Kate you are absolutely
correct, we need to fix our eyes on Jesus and follow Him and not some "modern day " prophet.
#4 " Be worthy of the priesthood". = men only. Until 1978 , white men only .
# 5 " Be worthy to attend the Temple" = Mormon leaders once issued their clear spiritual guidance on
requirements for this as : couples refrain from sex for a week or more before attending, and
also re-baptism required. Subsequent Mormon leaders changed their minds.
# 6 " Qualify for a Temple recommend". = in the mid 1960's there were 9 questions. Today? Perhaps
in 10 years or so there might be 30 questions . Purely the work of man.
# 14 " Pray regularly " = to Heavenly F.ather [HF] . Showing Him your gratitude for His help by telling Him
"thank you" etc. Attempting to give your Heavenly Mother [HM] the same courtesy, the same family
value is deemed as not apropriate christian behavior by Mormon leadership ! [ part 1]
#32 " Remember covenants made in the temple " = The symbolic sign of the penalty for divulging secret
Temple rituals to those abominable non-LDS believers in Jesus was changed in 1990 ? It must
must have been tiresome gesturing having your throat slit from ear to ear for revealing your
"sacred" name, tokens, signs etc. [ where's Jesus in all of this ? ]
#36 " Read and Study the Conf. edition of Ensign magazine" = lay that issue over the top of the
Book of Mormon, D&C, and PGP, and especially the Bible, as you study it. This is the latest
spiritual guidance from God's mouthpiece. In one Conf. sermon it is called " pure, unpolluted
guidance". We can look at past issues of Ensign as well as it's predecessors in Mormon
history to get the full picture of this so-called pure spiritual guidance, right?
It's pretty obvious that Mormonism is a man made religion conjured up by an occultist Free Mason. He, and those who followed him in this fraud, like to lay burdens on men that they themselves don't keep. How do I know they don't keep them? Simple! They can't.
Benjamin Franklin came up with something like thirteen character qualities that he wanted to posses. He kept a record and finally had to give it up. It was an impossible task.
That's why as Christians we recognize our hopeless condition and realize that it's through our faith in Jesus and what He did for us at the cross that we are saved. We trust in the Holy Spirit that as we yield to God through His indwelling, we will be transformed into the likeness of Christ, in our character.
Men always want to place a yoke on others to control them like a dumb ox.
I agree with you until you refer to the list or any list.. How is the question? How do you turn yourself around? How do you break habits that are bad? Who do I talk to for support? Some people may need a to do list, or a not to do list. When you say it is an attitude thing look at numbers 26,27 34,37 and 38. I believe those are reflections of a persons attitude. Some people need others and reminders of things to do. I remember a story of a professor who asked his students to pray at least 5 minutes a day. Initially the students thought it was to long but later asked if they could pray longer. Some people can change quickly others are more timid.
Speaking as someone who "took the journey to Mormonism" I can say with authority that when the missionaries (who are wonderful young men, who leave home for 2 years to convert people to mormonism) start the "conversion process" with an "investigator" they teach a very convincing story. The next thing is to get you to the LDS Church; someone will give you a lift if you don't have a car. Once there, everyone welcomes you as though you are really special – they "love" you and "feel the spirit" in you and this makes the investigator feel SPECIAL. So he/she is hooked on this feel good factor and keeps going to Church – the next step is baptism (because any other baptism the investigator may have had just doesn't get you to heaven". The lovely people (and I say that with sincerity) bring food and really try to make this a special day. Then after attending a Sunday School (because you are not yet "qualified" to go to the "big Church") for months and months and months as an investigator. You are then led to believe that the most wonderful experience is going to the temple; which you cannot do unless you meet certain criteria (but you weren't told this at the first meeting and you weren't told about their baptism and you weren't told about Sunday School initially either and by that I mean that you would be "taught" their gospel separately from regular worshipers ) – then when the Bishop and Stake President deems you to be fit for the temple. YOu then have lessons on attending the Temple (but you are not told everything because some things are "sacred" The Bishop and Stake President interview you and ask personal questions and then decide you can go to the temple or not. No-one actually tells you what happens (but you are told you will have to wear special garments but you have no idea what they look like or what they are but they are ridiculous to say the least)but believe me – first time I almost had a panic attack and felt like fleeing but didn't want to embarrass myself I stayed – also – I was surrounded by LDS people who went along in support and they were going through the mandatory process with a look of total gratitude upon their faces – these are intelligent, lovely, ordinary people and what goes on in their Temple cannot be imagined. Having got that over (and they don't tell you about that till you are in it way to deep to turn and run) – you then have to undergo other "rites" which I won't set out because I have every respect for the friends and lovely people who I met in the LDS Church. Yes I left and I feel free – BUT – LDS members who come from a long line of LDS predecessors; and LDS mums and dads who are bringing up their children in LDS ways with commendable strong family values which are meant to protect their children have a lot to lose if they leave the Church. Life "out there" is scary and if they leave they are leaving a whole lifetimes worth of investment behind and there must be fear that their children will turn out bad or relatives will believe they will not go to the Celestial KIngdom with them. All this is big stuff. It was very difficult for us to leave the LDS Church as we met some of the loveliest people I have ever encountered but then we had to go through a healing period to get us back into mainstream Christianity
We are "recovering" from Mormonism. We joined the LDS Church because we found the teachings at the time to be credible. Now that we have left we have difficulty in understanding how we ever got as far as attending their temple and continuing to attend the LDS Church. We met some of the loveliest people I have ever met; many of whom come from long lines of Mormons and even more with their sons, daughters, and children in the LDS Church. Perhaps some of them know the real truth it must be very difficult to leave because they would be then denigrating the beliefs of their fathers and mother who they "honour" and their ancestors. Also the world can be a scary place without a belief system or discipline and the Mormon Church commendably works at strengthening family values;(eg don't drink, smoke,eat too much, have sex before marriage or get involved in pornography); and these values can protect people from harm and hurt. They also teach parenting skills and home-making for the females. This is all very good stuff and some of the activities are fun. However the early LDS Church doctrine has major flaws; Joseph Smith's illegal activities are never divulged: the book of Mormon is flawed and the blatant untruths outweigh any good Mormons try to do. Furthermore – how dare they say the LDS Church is headed by a profit appointed by God and that theirs is the only "true" Church – children as young as 4 and 5 repeat this mantra as a testimony – how can they possibly know what is true what isn't at that age and how dare they think every other decent, honest, hardworking and spiritual Christian is apostate – but THEY DO and now we are to be pitied by them because we will be seen to have lost our way and never gain access to their celestial kingdom.