While reading the October 2014 General Conference addresses, I was interested to read that Mormon apostle D. Todd Christofferson said,
“So God does not save us ‘just as we are,’ first, because ‘just as we are’ we are unclean, and ‘no unclean thing can dwell…in his presence.’ [Moses 6:57]” (“Free Forever, to Act for Themselves,” Ensign 11/14, 17)
Mr. Christofferson made this comment in the context of our need to strive for personal righteousness – that it would be a mistake to think that “God loves and saves us ‘just as we are.’” He explained,
“God intends that His children should act according to the moral agency He has given them, ‘that every man may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment.’ [D&C 101:78]”
So God does not save us just as we are – we are unclean; we are sinners. We must strive for personal righteousness before God “loves and saves us.”
This is, of course, classic Mormon doctrine. The Book of Mormon explains that “if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you” (Moroni 10:32; emphasis added). Alma 11:37 says, “Ye cannot be saved in your sins.” Second Nephi 25:23 says, “we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”
This works-righteousness of Mormonism has been rightly dubbed, “The Impossible Gospel.” And it is absent from the Bible.
In his conference address Mr. Christofferson did not cite his source for his quoted words “just as we are,” but it’s likely that he was referring to the beloved Christian hymn, “Just As I Am,” (lyrics written by Charlotte Elliott in 1835), biblically based on Jesus’ words in the book of John:
“Jesus said to them, ‘I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst…All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.” (John 6:35, 37)
As the story goes,
“Miss Charlotte Elliott was visiting some friends in the West End of London, and there met the eminent minister, César Malan. While seated at supper, the minister said he hoped that she was a Christian. She took offense at this, and replied that she would rather not discuss that question. Dr. Malan said that he was sorry if had offended her, that he always liked to speak a word for his Master, and that he hoped that the young lady would someday become a worker for Christ.
“When they met again at the home of a mutual friend, three weeks later, Miss Elliott told the minister that ever since he had spoken to her she had been trying to find her Saviour, and that she now wished him to tell her how to come to Christ. ‘Just come to him as you are,’ Dr. Malan said. This she did, and went away rejoicing. Shortly afterward she wrote this hymn.” (My Life and the Story of the Gospel Hymns, Ira David Sankey, 186)
These are the lyrics Charlotte Elliott wrote:
Just as I am, without one plea, But that Thy blood was shed for me, And that Thou bidst me come to Thee, O Lamb of God, I come.
Just as I am, and waiting not, To rid my soul of one dark blot, To Thee whose blood can cleanse each spot, O Lamb of God, I come.
Just as I am, though tossed about, With many a conflict, many a doubt, Fightings and fears within, without, O Lamb of God, I come.
Just as I am, poor, wretched, blind; Sight, riches, healing of the mind, Yea, all I need in Thee to find, O Lamb of God, I come.
Just as I am, Thou wilt receive, Wilt welcome, pardon, cleanse, relieve; Because Thy promise I believe, O Lamb of God, I come.
This hymn reflects a great truth of the Gospel: Jesus came to save sinners (1 Timothy 1:15).
Christian Pastor John MacArthur notes, “That’s the heart of the gospel, beloved. It’s for sinners. It’s for sinners.”
“[Jesus] also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: ‘Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: “God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.” But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, “God, be merciful to me, a sinner!” I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.’” (Luke 18:9-14)
The tax collector came to Jesus just as he was: a sinner unclean. And, as Dr. MacArthur said, “Jesus forgave him on the spot.”
We can debate what Mr. Christofferson meant when he said God does not save us “just as we are,” but one thing is certain: God says we need His mercy, and He freely offers it to all who recognize their own spiritual need, to all who understand we are wretched sinners. Jesus said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.” (Luke 5:31-32)
Jesus calls us to come to Him just as we are. He won’t leave us there, but Jesus came to call and to save sinners. Near the end of Dr. MacArthur’s excellent sermon by that name, he said,
“Beloved, I tell you this morning God offers you grace. He offers you mercy. He offers you forgiveness. He offers you compassion. He’ll forgive all your sins if you’ll come to Him. But He can’t do anything for people who think they’re okay. Can’t do anything for people who think they’re righteous, who think they’re good. He came to call sinners to repentance. So the church is not made up of the righteous, it’s made up of penitent sinners. It’s not made up of those who think they’re good, it’s made up of people who know they’re not. It’s not made up of people who have brought their righteousness up to God as a satisfaction, it’s made up of people for whom God’s righteousness has come down as a covering…
“How low can the Lord go to save sinners? Who is He willing to forgive? Well He can only forgive people who are in this group, the lawless, the rebellious, the ungodly, sinners, profane, parent murderers, murderers of all kinds, immoral men, homosexuals, kidnappers, liars, perjurers, and anything else you want to add to the list that’s contrary to sound teaching. Those are the people He saves who have been brought against His Law and realize they have fallen short and they are saved according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, the good news that God forgives the sins of those who repent and embrace His Son.”
Amen! Thank You, Yeshua! Hallelujah! Glory, Glory, Glory to God in the Highest!
(great piece, Sharon)
When you think about it, the message that you have to be clean to get Jesus’ attention, its really about status, about being able to say look at at me and where I am.
Christianity is about the exact opposite, and that’s a huge differentiator. I think it is one of the most beautiful parts of the Gospel.
It’s like I said on another topic.
I find it hard to imagine the Apostles ( the real ones in the Bible ) turning people away from Christ because they failed to answer if they had been masturbating or not.
Also, the strange fascination with the color white strikes me as pathological.
It is quite clear to me that Christ works from the top down. He comes down to us, not us up to him…if it were the latter then it’s really just the tower of Babel take 2.
I read this article and I imagine a man in an expensive suit swatting a homeless man away from the door step with a newspaper.
So is what this LDS apostle presented the first century gospel of the orthodox, Biblical Christian faith? One way to find out is to take a look at the NT Book of Acts through Revelation and see what the primitive Church preached. Let me save the seeker some time. What he’s saying isn’t there. So if it isn’t there then what he is saying doesn’t represent the Christian gospel. But then we know that the gospel as presented by the LDS sect of Mormonism is a false gospel.
This LDS gospel appears to have some wisdom in its emphasis on moral behavior. I’m all in favor of moral behavior and godly living but it comes as a result of our being saved. Someone can be very moral but they aren’t sinless and without faith in Christ, that person is lost.
I didn’t clean-up my act in order to come to Christ. I recognized that I was a sinner, spiritually lost, and that through faith in Christ, I would be eternally saved. Then my behavior began to comport with my faith.
These Mormon leaders put stumbling blocks before those who are trusting them to bring them the truth. I’ve no doubt that D. Todd C. is sincere and believes what he is saying. But he’s sincerely wrong and we can only hope and pray that he can find his way to the cross of Christ where he will be washed in the Blood of the Lamb and be spiritually regenerated.
Romans 4:5- However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
Mormon apostles have identified themselves as the type of individuals that Paul had to warn about would come — 2Cor 11:13 . By way of evaluating their teachings we can conclude that the men who head the Mormon church are simply self appointed apostles , not actual messengers sent by Jesus . Sharon cited some of what Mormon apostle Christofferson believes about LDS individual salvation . It’s a shame that people will follow him and think they are following a reliable gospel preacher .
In The Mormon church system men and women are only candidates who must qualify to receive God’s full forgiveness and eternal life by climbing up the ladder of rules , laws, regulations , to earn eternal life . However , Jesus’ true apostles created no such religious system . Their gospel of salvation was taught , and unlike the lie of Mormonism about it , it has been available ever since and was not altered/corrupted by a universal apostasy making salvation unavailable for 1700 years . That is the lie perpetrated by Mormonism about the gospel of salvation that Jesus’ apostles taught —
Rom 1:16 .
The great liberating truth that Jesus’ apostles taught was that God does save us when we come to His Son for salvation , just as we are . Striving to jump through all the hoops of a religious organization’s system in hopes of being clean enough to receive eternal life is a ticket to despair and futility . God saves ( gives the gift of eternal life ) to sinners who admit they are not worthy and bow before Him . Then Holy Spirit begins to do what He does best — render ongoing aid to make them vessels to reach a lost world . Christians : sinners saved to serve Jesus .
May the Mormon people read and re-read the lyrics of Charlotte Elliot’s hymn that Sharon listed above . Jesus stands ready to hear the prayer of those Mormons who realize that they have no assurance of salvation ( eternal life ) and want to receive His forgiveness , peace , and enter into a personal relationship with Him .
Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?
So let me get this straight, the LDS missionaries will not baptize someone until their lives are squared away regarding sin. OH that’s not what is being said?
“So God does not save us ‘just as we are……..”
Is that how it works with the LDS Mormon sect? Well I don’t think so. The MM prey are encouraged to jump into the LDS baptismal font as soon as possible; you know “Are you feeling anything now?”. But in Mormonism there are two levels of salvation. The first level everyone who has ever lived gets. And also good Christians who are not LDS, get a higher level but not the Celestial Kingdom.
LDS members who do the system and are morally pure get into the highest level and get to be gods with forever families and their own planets to rule.
So as far as general salvation goes, the biggest reprobate who has ever lived gets “saved” in the LDS program. That’s the deal with LDS style Mormonism. A person has to keep digging deeper to find the reference point. The reference point in this leaders remarks is the god-maker aspect of the program.
There’s a reason why we have to go through what these LDS leaders say with a fine toothed comb. Remember this also. They don’t speak for the LDS church, right? That’s an excuse that’s used when ever they say something stupid. It becomes their “opinion”. This is part of the LDS membership cognitive dissonance. That is believing on-the-one-hand that when the leaders speak the thinking has been done and the “opinion” card.
So in order to get the LDS final reward, the practitioner has to “earn” it. The LDS god BTW is always evolving in wisdom and knowledge. So the “just as you are” coming to Christ in faith to receive the gift of eternal life the Father is offering, does not apply in the LDS religion. It is, however, what the Bible clearly teaches as the Good News.
Falcon, as our resident expert on Catholicism, do you think Catholics require a certain amount of cleaning up before asking forgiveness, partaking in the Sacraments?
Well first of all I grew-up in the “real” Catholic era. I don’t think the sect is near as strict in practice as when I was coming up. But I’ll give you the view from the 1950s Catholic school.
I could go to communion if I had committed venial sins and asked for forgiveness from God. If I would have committed a mortal sin, I would have to ask God forgiveness and then wouldn’t go to hell if I died before I went to confession. But in order to take communion I’d have to go to confession before taking communion.
You could also lose you salvation for various reasons mainly committing mortal sins and not asking for forgiveness. Technically I’m going to hell because I left the Catholic Church.
I really had a lot of anxiety as an adolescent kid because I took it all very seriously. I think a lot of Catholics experienced this. When I read about Martin Luther I can relate to his struggle. I’ve never totally gotten over my Catholic training. I have to consciously battle the “law”. I’ve had to learn to live under grace.
So, before asking for forgiveness, no, but before partaking, yes. Also difference in levels of sin.
Seems Mormon theology may have borrowed from this a bit. Seems also Mormons are not entirely in tune with this, as they still put the works before the forgiveness. Catholics must ask forgiveness, and if I am right, must also do a little penance, too, to make things right. But once those are done, all is well. Mormons seem to take a tally of everything. No slates are wiped clean.
Interesting to think about.
Yes penance. Three Hail Mary’s and Four Our Father’s or maybe five Hail Mary’s; I don’t think I ever got five Our Father’s. You could also do things to limited the time you were going to spend in purgatory. That’s where saying prayers or some other activity would earn you a plenary or some other type of indulgence.
There was some sort of promise associated for going to mass and communion five straight first Fridays of the month. You could also have a mass said for some dead person to shorten their stay in purgatory. A “low” mass was $5 and a “high mass” was $10. The difference was the amount of ritual between a high and low mass. The high mass had incense burning and the priest and the altar boys would walk down the aisle with the priest throwing holy water out of this instrument that was gold in color with a ball holding the holy water attached to a handle.
I could go on but I think you get the drift. What this sort of thing has going for it is structure. It gives people something to do.
Catholics were Armenian (did I spell that right) as opposed to Calvinists in theology.
The difference, simply put, is that in the former you think you can lose your salvation and in the latter it’s “perseverance” of the saints; the “P” in the TULIP formula.
Of course it really doesn’t matter what someone believes because it’s what God says that counts, right? Now Mormons would say that’s why a prophet is needed to get the straight scoop from God. Problem with the Mormon prophets, as we know, is that they are always having to restructure and back-track what’s been proclaimed previously.
My “doctrine” and practice is to come to Christ in faith and then live in accordance with that faith.
The LDS folks think they need a prophet to tell them what God is telling him. That’s really too bad they believe that. It’s really their un-doing. All they’d really have to do is read the NT because that’s where God reveals His plan of salvation.
Do I believe in modern day prophets? Sure I do. There is a Gift of Prophecy explained in the NT, which would make someone who has this gift a prophet. But here’s the deal. A NT prophet supports, amplifies and reinforces what’s been revealed. A prophet doesn’t come up with a new gospel message.
That’s how a person determines if what a “prophet” is saying is true. Just compare it to what the NT message is. If it doesn’t line-up; run, don’t walk away from a prophet who is announcing a new revelation.
The Good News is just not complicated enough for some Mormons. They just don’t understand how a person can be saved by faith apart from works. They don’t understand that our works confirm our faith. James said it best when he said to demonstrate faith through works. He was talking about a changed life as the result of coming to faith in Christ.
I don’t know any Christian who is focused on earning some sort of reward as the result of their faith in Christ. It doesn’t come up. If there is a reward, it’s to bring honor and glory to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Another interesting verse: “If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8, NASB)
I wonder what President Jo. Smith, Jr. said by his appointment to being a God, or the second anointing or the fulness of the priesthood, since he was ordained to be a God, perfectly cleansed from all sins?
Jesus was the only perfectly clean human (He is also God) on his very own merit, the one who overcame all temptations without ever sinning. (1 Pet. 2:22, NASB)
We can only be forgiven by God seeing us through the person and work of His Son. Otherwise, read Psalm 130:3
P.S. Have you had a chance to read my email?
……………….and the problem that the LDS either don’t know or want to confront is that the gospel that Joseph Smith started with wasn’t the one he ended up with. Please don’t talk to me about “progressive revelation”. Something so fundamental as the doctrine of salvation isn’t going to change especially if one claims that all manner of spirit personages appeared to him.
But then one only has to examine Smith’s “first vision” tale to know that this guy just made it up as he went along and created the concept of “progressive revelation” to cover his tracks and allow him to invent and create as he went along.
Read the NT and understand that there isn’t anything progressive about what is revealed in God’s Word. And since Mormonism is suppose to be the re-establishment of first century Christianity, you’d think it would be consistent with the Gospel preached by the apostles and the disciples who followed them.
One more thing, if you insist that the “restoration” is the real deal. How many Mormon sects are there who all make claim to the restored gospel? You’ll find that consistency is pretty hard to find among the various sects.
So for these poor LDS folks who are running as fast as their little legs will carry them on the religious hamster wheel, I have good news for you.
Well, first the bad news. You aren’t going to become a god.
Now the Good News. You can have eternal life through faith in Christ Jesus Our Lord. You can have your sins totally forgiven as a gift of God not by works that anyone should boast.
Now the bad news. You can’t sin with impunity if you come to Christ in faith. That shows……………well bad faith. Coming to Christ we recognize that we are sinners and can’t save ourselves no matter how hard we try or how righteous we may think we are. The Bible tells us when we violate one of God’s laws we are guilty of violating them all. That’s why God provided for us, the gift of eternal life, on His terms.
We can’t earn anything. Christ did the work. We sign on to His atoning sacrifice as the pathway to the Father.
When you let Mormon leaders speak enough times you will see a picture emerge . It’s a picture that clearly identifies them as latter days self appointed messengers of Jesus Christ . Scriptures such as 2 Tim 4:3, 4 ; 2Jn 7-9 ; Gal 1:8-9 are relevant scriptures to use in evaluating anyone today who comes claiming to be sent by Jesus to preach His gospel of salvation . Mormon leaders , with their claims of
authority from Jesus , are simply well meaning and well dressed imitation prophets of the latter days .
Concerning the gospel that Mormon leaders have created ( they have called their gospel a ” ladder” — that’s because the rungs on it are the works that must be done in order to climb up to earning exaltation , eternal life , and faith in Christ is just one of the rungs ) , it appears at first glance to look like it is not much different than what the New Testament teaches . But upon a closer look the differences start to emerge , and they are significant ones , like teaching that the the true gospel is a ladder of works by which a person can become worthy , clean enough to eventually qualify for Godhood . Mormon leaders remind their flock that establishing their own worthiness , righteousness , that they can thus earn the gift of eternal life mentioned the N.T. The Mormon temple recommend
procedure is a sample of this striving to establish one’s worthiness to climb up to earn Godhood .
The true gospel of salvation , the way a sinner gets to be forgiven and allowed to live with God in His very own home above , is by a righteousness , a being worthy to thus live there . But unlike the Mormon gospel , the New Testament teaches that becoming this worthy , this righteous is by being clothed with Jesus’ righteous alone . That is how sinners are clean enough to enter God’s home above
and live forever there . Phil 3:9 . Self deception and the futility that it produces is the result of sincere people thinking they must climb up a ladder of works to be clean and receive eternal life , that Jesus is their exemplar rather than understanding that He is their substitute who died for them to provide the “way” to be accepted by God — His righteousness in exchange for their trying to establish their righteousness to become worthy for receiving eternal life .
LDS please understand this truth :
The only way to become righteous enough in the eyes of God for Him to allow you into His home above is if the righteous of Jesus Christ becomes your own , Jesus has met the requirement for perfection on your behalf — 2 Cor 5:21 . Don’t get stuck into the trap that some of the Jews fell into concerning righteous and salvation — Rom 10:1-4 . It may help you to understand the truth of all this by pondering the following : Jesus can be your ” temple recommend” , it’s trusting in His righteousness/ worthiness alone that will enable you to enter God’s heavenly home above . Jesus alone is the way to receive eternal life — Jn 14:1-6 . Confess your feeble attempts to become worthy by filling your day with church duties, religious obligations , callings . Bow before Jesus and ask to be saved . Do it today .
Mormons seem to think that Christians who say that they don’t have to keep laws and commands in order to be saved , that this means Christians don’t want to do these and thus they must be living a blatant sinful lifestyle . That type of reasoning on the part of Mormons is simply inaccurate .
Works come only after the gift of eternal life is received from God and that takes place when sinners come to His Son and ask to be pardoned . Rom 3:23 ; 5:8-10; 6:23 ; 10:9-13 . Simple , yet powerful .
We get to serve Jesus , daily praising Him directly , and doing what pleases Him .
No more hamster wheel . What a relationship !!!
I’m not so sure what LDS Mormons mean by “eternal life” or even “salvation”. We know that their goal is to get to the Celestial Kingdom and become gods. So is that eternal life and/or salvation? It doesn’t seem to me that these terms are applicable to the main goal of LDS Mormonism. So the emphasis on getting all cleaned up prior to gaining salvation is related to becoming a god. Funny thing is that this is said to be a restoration of first century Christianity. As has been pointed out endlessly on this blog, there is no evidence of the restored gospel at in any era of Christianity. So it’s a false gospel invented and promulgated by false prophets.
If I were a Mormon, I’d open up the NT and read it over and over until I grasped the meaning of what is being presented there. That’s what Micah Wilder did after being challenged to do so by a Baptist minister while he/Micah was on his mission for the LDS church. The LDS leadership of his mission weren’t impressed with what Micah discovered and testified to.
While we find it encouraging when Mormon leaders use scriptures in the New Testament in their sermons , still it needs repeating that they may not be teaching the full truth about what the New Testament reveals about certain doctrines . Mormon apostle Christofferson has not understood what the Bible , especially the New Testament , teaches about being saved , and this is because the Mormon gospel is not the same one as Jesus’ apostles preached 2000 years ago .
Sharon thinks that Mr Christofferson had Jn 6: 35,37 , in mind when he made his statements in the Ensign magazine above . Perhaps he did , but what does he believe about Jesus’ statement in Jn 6 :35,37 where He asks men and women to ” come unto me ” ? Jesus repeats His invitation in Matt 11:28 and Jn 12:32 , as well as Jn 5: 40 . What do Mormon leaders mean when they say it’s part of their ministry to tell people to ” come unto Christ ?” Well , Mr Christofferson answered that question in his sermon titled ” Why We Share The Gospel ” ( Ensign , Aug 2014 ) .
He said that , ” Coming unto Christ is an abbreviation , a way of describing in three words the plan of salvation .”
What is the Mormon ” plan of salvation ?” Mormon leader Bruce McConkie claims it is the gospel of Jesus Christ , ” It comprises all of the laws , ordinances , and performances by conformity to which mortal man is empowered to gain eternal life in the kingdom of God .” [ Mormon Doctrine , p. 576 ]
Many years ago former Mormon Carolyn Sexauer , ( a Mormon for 30 years ) shared in her testimony that she was taught : ” The gospel of Jesus Christ is called the plan of salvation . It is a system of rules by complying with which , salvation may be obtained .” [ quoting Mormon Elder E.F. Parry , in the ” Scrap Book ” ].
So in Mormonism to ” come unto Christ ” is to do all the works of the Mormon gospel , it is the effort to qualify for receiving eternal life by meriting it through performance . But is this what Jesus meant when said ” Come to Me ” in Jn 6:35,37 and the other verses I listed above ? If Mormons would take time to ponder the lyrics of Charlotte Elliot’s hymn which Sharon has posted they will see the great truth about Jesus’ invitation recorded in the N.T. means more than to follow Jesus as our moral exemplar , and while that could be true of Jesus’ invitation is a broad sense , the truth about this issue reveals something far deeper than that :
When Jesus asks all to ” Come unto Me ” ( Matt 11:28 ; Jn 5:39-40 ; 6:35,37 etc ) , He means just that — come directly to Him , like one person meeting another . It’s personal and today it takes place when a sinner petitions Him in prayer asking Him for forgiveness and to be their personal Savior . He hears that prayer and saves all those who so ask Him . This starts the christian life and also begins a life long intimate relationship and fellowship with Him where prayer to Him is a
mainstay of a daily walk with the risen Savior . This is the Father’s arrangement in the new covenant .
It brings Him glory to have it so because He will accept all those who worship His Son like they do Him — Jn 5: 19 ; 1 Cor 1:9 . Jesus is the way to a complete relationship with the Father –Jn 14:6.
Considering this truth about Jesus , what have Mormon leaders taught about gaining a personal relationship with Jesus through prayer ? They claim :
” Your Heavenly Father loves you and knows your deeds , and He wants you to communicate with Him through prayer . PRAY TO HIM AND NO ONE ELSE .” [ True To the Faith , p 118 ] .
” We always pray to our Father in heaven , AND TO HIM ALONE …. WE DO NOT PRAY TO THE SAVIOR OR TO ANYONE ELSE .” [ Church Manual , ” Missionary Preparation Student Manual ,
Chapter 5 ] .
So those who love and worship the Lord Jesus Christ , having responded to His timeless invitation to
“Come to Me ” , must reject anyone who teaches that it is not appropriate to communicate with Him directly and daily in prayer . A personal relationship with Jesus is just that — personal , a one on one interaction with our living Savior through prayer . It’s simple to understand this , and it’s no different than a relationship we experience with the Father .
The Mormon people who believe what their leaders have taught as in the above two quotes , are being led by well meaning and well dressed latter days imitation prophets — Matt 24: 11 .
Mormons can be free from these men and find the true gospel . That’s our prayer .
It’s not about Jesus. It’s about the LDS system. The Mormon Jesus is just one of many gods and another clog in the LDS machine god-making program. This is more than a distortion of the Gospel of Jesus Christ; the Good News.
The Mormon heavenly father is just one of many gods out there in the universe who went through the LDS system on another planetary system. So what did Joseph Smith restore? It certainly wasn’t first century Christianity. Smith’s program didn’t show-up in history until he came on the scene.
I did thank you, I’ve sent you a reply.
Would just like to add that I am preparing to send away my exit papers.
That’s good news! I think you got out before you got too deeply in. I hope this blog has been of some help to you in your journey.
Where are you as far as your spiritual status at this point; if you don’t mind sharing.
I don’t think there was any real danger of me getting too deep Falcon I ask too many questions and don’t let go til I get an answer. All I was getting was ” Joseph was a prophet and the church is the restored church of Christ on earth ” no matter what the question is that is always the answer.
Plus there is just too many conflicting accounts regarding everyone and everything connected to the church. There is no central belief other than ” do as we say or else ” as every apostle/prophet spends most their time cleaning up the mess from the one before.
I know that becoming apostate means my temple believing friend would need to shun me or else they can kiss their temple recommend goodbye. I am past caring at this point.
As for my own spiritual journey, I have been looking into the Eastern Orthodox but I am sick to death of men swanning around in robes and taking themselves seriously. From here on out, it’s just me and Christ + whoever he sends my way.
I am going to undertake a slow and methodical study of the new testament to which I am going to open myself up to Gods word. I thought I was witnessing the beginnings of a beautiful friendship with those I met in the LDS, but my standing with Christ is more important.
The only thing I need to decide on is what translation to use when it comes to Bibles.
From there, I’ll let God do the talking.
That sounds like a good plan. I use the New American Standard version but I have several others. The advice I’d give is to have confidence and not let any one theological perspective burden you down. I like what the late Dr. Walter Martin you to say; “Question everything including what I tell you.”
The best thing that I’ve learned is to look things up from a variety of sources but to check the sources for accuracy. The bottom line is what the apostle Paul said that he determined to know nothing but Christ and Him crucified. That was his message to a group he had visited on one of his missionary journeys.
I don’t know a lot about the Eastern Orthodox tradition. I was raised Roman Catholic. My friend Andy Watson, who use to contribute here, liked some things about the Greek Orthodox. He just couldn’t get past their emphasis on saints and various icons.
So here’s the bottom line. “Eat the meat and spit out the bones!”
falcon said , ” It’s not about Jesus . It’s about the system “.
You are right . Sadly , Mormon leaders have introduced ” another Jesus” ( 2Cor 11:4 ) and ” another gospel ” ( Gal. 1:8 ) . This is what latter days false prophets are known for . The Mormon people can be free from these men and find the truth about a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ if they would read the New Testament intently , the truth is in there .
Glad to hear that you will read the New Testament , that’s where we find Jesus and His love for all .
May God bless your study .
The Mormon gospel which is a system of rules , regulations , Mormons must do in order to earn eventual Godhood . Faith in their Jesus ( the spirit brother of Lucifer ) is only one of the rungs on the restored gospel of Mormonism which Mormon leaders have termed a ” ladder” . This Jesus helps LDS to earn Godhood , He’s a way shower , He worked out His own salvation long ago and now supposedly shows LDS how to that also , which is to climb up the ladder of works to merit entrance into God’s home above . This type of “gospel ” can produce a hamster wheel kind of life .
The Mormon people need to know that Mormonism is not the answer .
Good to hear that you’re on your way out! As you can see you’re in good company for those who will advise you. As previously mentioned by others, the gospel of Christ is focused on Christ’s work and God’s grace without your work or effort. This doesn’t mean that we are not to work, but our works are evidence that we are saved, not required for salvation.
You’ll find many Christian denominations agree on the meat and potatoes, as good ‘ole falcon said, ‘spit out the bones’.