Pomeroy Tucker was a contemporary of Joseph Smith. Living in Palmyra, New York, he knew the Smith family, counted Martin Harris among his friends, and was actively engaged in the 1830 printing process of the Book of Mormon.
In 1867 Pomeroy Tucker published a book about Mormonism titled, “Origin, rise, and progress of Mormonism: Biography of its founders and history of its church.” The book is highly critical of Joseph Smith and the religion he founded, and is itself criticized for Mr. Tucker’s lack of careful and new research. However, according to Mormon historian Richard L. Anderson, “Tucker does relate much valuable information concerning the period of the publication of the Book of Mormon…Most of Tucker’s unattributed particulars of the Smiths’ early Palmyra life are probably based on his observation” (quoted in Dan Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 3:87).
Pomeroy Tucker’s book relates an unusual story concerning the gold plates that purportedly contained the text for the Book of Mormon. What follows is from “Origin, rise, and progress of Mormonism,” pages 30-33.
“[Joseph] Smith told a frightful story of the display of celestial pyrotechnics on the exposure to his view of the sacred book—the angel who had led him to the discovery again appearing as his guide and protector, and confronting ten thousand devils gathered there, with their menacing sulphureous flame and smoke, to deter him from his purpose! This story was repeated and magnified by the believers, and no doubt aided the experiment upon superstitious minds which eventuated so successfully.
“Mr. Willard Chase, a carpenter and joiner, was called upon by Smith and requested to make a strong chest in which to keep the golden book under lock and key, in order to prevent the awful calamity that would follow against the person other than himself who should behold it with his natural eyes. He could not pay a shilling for the work, and therefore proposed to make Mr. Chase a sharer in the profits ultimately anticipated in some manner not definitely stated; but the proposition was rejected—the work was refused on the terms offered. It was understood, however, that the custodian of the precious treasure afterward in some way procured a chest for his purpose, which, with its sacred deposit, was kept in a dark garret of his father’s house, where the translations were subsequently made, as will be explained.
“An anecdote touching this subject used to be related by William T. Hussey and Azel Vandruver. They were notorious wags [jokers], and were intimately acquainted with Smith. They called as his friends at his residence, and strongly importuned him for an inspection of the ‘golden book,’ offering to take upon themselves the risk of the death-penalty denounced. Of course, the request could not be complied with; but they were permitted to go to the chest with its owner, and see where the thing was, and observe its shape and size, concealed under a piece of thick canvas. Smith, with his accustomed solemnity of demeanor, positively persisting in his refusal to uncover it, Hussey became impetuous, and (suiting his action to his word) ejaculated, ‘Egad! I’ll see the critter, live or die!’ And stripping off the cover, a large tile-brick was exhibited. But Smith’s fertile imagination was equal to the emergency. He claimed that his friends had been sold by a trick of his; and ‘treating’ with the customary whiskey hospitalities, the affair ended in good-nature.”
What else can one assume when pressed so many times to tell us how Evangelicals come to their faith other then they continue to claim that the proof and evidence is in the Word of God, (Bible). Now for at least one good Christian we have a confession that personal revelation was given to him to know that Joseph Smith was a false prophet and the Book of Mormon is not true. I want to congratulate this good christian for coming to this conclusion with out even reading the Book of Mormon, hence no research, no studying, no pondering and yet we would have to believe at least he prayed about it. Of course he did enough study to know that it came to being through one looking in a hat and other questionable means.
Of course this should be the red flag for all to stay away from ever reading and praying afterwards to know the truth of the BOM, for now we know that there are other ways, not quite spelled out, but other ways that God communicates this knowledge as He did with this sincere christian. My hat is off, for this is new knowledge to me that God will just answer any old prayer without any due diligence of the seeker. Kind of like asking if the Bible is true with out ever reading it. Wow, talk about saving a lot to time. 🙂
Helen , you mentioned your experiences with , ” the usual mocking of our testimony
by the burning in the heart , or still small voice…..” I think you make a valid point
by this statement. To often this takes place by those who disagree with your beliefs.
I think we both see the value and importance of the Scriptures in evaluating what
we believe. Brigham Young felt so, and he asked everyone to take the Bible and
compare Mormon doctrines with it. It goes without saying that he also believed
that God would reveal additional revelation thru him or other subsequent prophets,
but the Bible is legitimately where to start. I take Jesus’ warning in Matt.7:15 as to
benefit me personally , I need to be aware . I hope you see this warning as well.
Oh yea, about the magic tricks that were used to event the Book of Mormon, we still have never been presented the how and why its physical makeup. True, some would mock the means of translation but fail to go beyond the deeper issue of how and why it got here.
I guess when one sensationalizes the means of translation you will be quite successful in fooling the gullible. Sincere seekers do their own research, actually read and ponder, and take James 1:5 at face value; compare that with those who take the word of another and skip the hard work that it takes to find any truth.
Helen, it’s unfortunate that you’ve met people who have mocked your
testimony etc. Since Jesus warned of future false prophets appearing
on the scene, it would be wise to see how His original apostles used
this counsel in their missionary travels. I think we both see the value
in starting with the Bible in evaluating anyone’s beliefs who claims to
follow Jesus. Brigham Young suggested the value of such a approach
when he said to take up the Bible and compare Mormon beliefs with it.
I realize as a Mormon you believe in a modern day living prophet . So I
have to take Jesus’ warning in Matt .7:15 seriously, and to take it
personally , it is for me to be aware of false prophets. I’m sure you
would agree this is a valid warning by Jesus. I believe that is why
we are here — trying to sound big “caution” to those who follow any
prophet. Hopefully we can it with respect .
CD said
Show me where those prophets/presidents said in order to correct them we must first know Mormonism, and Ex Mormons like Kate who were in it for 40 years seem to know it and never tell us what were saying is wrong. The only two people that are saying we are wrong are currant Mormons who dont want to hear it, and an atheist who hates God and really has nothing to say since he clearly denies God even exists. So why talk about someone you dont believe in? We dont believe in the Easter Bunny or Santa clause, so I dont spend my life talking to people who do believe and knowing lie to their children since we all know they dont exist.
Helen, You said your tired of people Poo-pooing the LDS testimony’s. Well the Mormons do this to us, and the Bible says,
It seems to me LDS dont know God because they have no love. I have asked many times and never get an answer, where is the love in Mormonism? I see LDS lying sometimes, thats not love. We ask a question and instead of getting an honest answer we get, Milk before meat. A 40 year Mormon who leaves would know something, yet they cannot get an answer. So I can point out more examples, but I know you LDS know what I am talking about.
You have no real love or care for us, You figure we are clueless and dont care about us. We feel you are wrong, but we love you enough to tell you, you guys refuse to do that for us. Where is Gods love from you? I dont see it and no matter how often I ask, I get ignored, that is not Gods love. That is Satan.
Now how reliable of a method of translation is it to put a magic rock in a hat, press your face into the hat and claim to have translated a language called “reformed Egyptian” from some gold plates a spirit guide supposedly told you to dig up from the ground?
I guess Joseph Smith forgot about this magical way of translating ancient documents when he attempted to translate some ancient papyri. Seems that those papyri didn’t get taken away and guess what? Joseph Smith’s “translation” was totally bogus. In fact one of his facsimiles supposedly showing the Mormon god is actually an Egyptian fertility god sitting on a throne exposing himself.
The lesson here of course is to get rid of the evidence because once folks familiar with the language translated it, Smith was found to be a total fraud…….again.
It doesn’t even take spiritual discernment to figure out the Smith fraud. Try common sense.
The retention rate in Mormonism is abysmal and it’s easy to see why. Those who don’t grow-up in the religion can’t have the truth hidden from them very long and once they figure out they’ve had a bait-and-switch pulled on them, bail out. Those who grow up in Mormonism don’t know any different and have been programmed like mindless robots to simply repeat the Mormon mantra over and over again. But even these folks for whom the conditioning didn’t take fly the coop in short order.
Mike R. you are very astute and wise. We, meaning Christians are to be wary of the word of man versus the word of God given through His chosen Prophets. Each one of us can find truth in this world, but truth does not come by way of man often. God has given us certain
keys to come to the knowledge of all truths and that would be the witness of the Holy Ghost or as Christians often refer Him to as the Holy Spirit. One thing we all can agree on, God cannot lie, that is why I abide by James1:5 in all my doings and all my questions.
So here we have a guy who chased about the country side with some like minded individuals trying to see into the ground with a magic rock in order to find buried treasure, which he never found. Then wouldn’t you know it, this guy who claimed he could look into the ground with his magic rock and see buried treasure, claims that he found some gold plates buried in the ground. Then he takes his magic rock, used previously to see into the ground to find buried treasure, and claims that he was able to translate the reformed Egyptian language on the golden plates, by looking at the rock when it was in his hat.
Now that’s not hard to believe is it? No! I mean that’s all very believable because we all know that’s how the Bible is translated. Biblical scholars take the copies of the documents and set them on a table next to them. Then they put a magic rock into a hat, stare at the rock, and the Greek or Hebrew become clear to them. Easy deal and quite a time saver I might add. No going to school for years to learn the languages, idioms and customs of the people.
Think of all the tuition a person can save by finding the right rock. Too bad the head honchos at LDS Inc. didn’t pull brother Smith’s rock out of the vault in Salt Lake City when Mark Hoffman brought them these documents that were all forgeries. As it where, the boys who sit in the big chairs in the tall building at LDS Inc. bought Hoffman’s yarn in the same way they’ve bought Smith’s. Besides the magic rock they would have needed the hat anyway.
Helen, Joseph Smith taught that the Book of Momon was the keystone of a
Mormon ‘s religion, and that a man could get closer to God by abiding by it’s
precepts than any other book . [ History of the Church v.4 p.461 ]. How do
you personally understand this ?
M.R.
Mike R. I feel it was correctly stated. Of course one needs to first read the Book of Mormon and not just sensationalize the way it came to be. You will always have those who mock and ridicule but dare say they ever pick it up to find out what the message is. These individuals will continue to stumble through life kicking at the P R I C K S until they end up on the other side of the veil and ask, “what happened, I was so good at mocking and ridiculing it never occurred to me that their was a message to be read and learned”.
Keystone of our religion has two parts in my opinion.
First part: if one was able to show the keystone is made up of nothing but mortar and cement and not a sold rock the whole foundation of Mormonism would come crumbling down.
Second part: Joseph Smith declared, that it is true (D&C 17:6), that it contains the truth and His words (D&C 19:26), that it was translated by power from on high (D&C 20:8), that it contains the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ (D&C 20:9, D&C 42:12), that it was given by inspiration and confirmed by the ministering of angels (D&C 20:10), that it gives evidence that the holy scriptures are true (D&C 20:11), and that those who receive it in faith shall receive eternal life (D&C 20:14).
Mike R. and what do I personally believe? Unlike some here who claim they have received revelation from God that Joseph Smith is a false prophet and the Book of Mormon is false I have received just the opposite revelation. I know that JS is a Prophet of God and the Book of Mormon a second witness that Jesus is the Christ. Three things come to mind, it proclaims Jesus is the Christ, it gives us saving ordinances and covenants once preached and now lost and last it is usually the most talked about when one bears their testimony of Christ and their witness the Book of Mormon is true because they actually read it, studied it, ponder it, and prayed about it.
Helen said
I am guessing that since you said this, you must be talking about someone on this Blog/board. Care to tell us who this is so we can ask them about this. I would like to talk to them, and I’m pretty sure so would others. But I also ask who it is, if it is someone on this board, so we can know if you really spoke with this person, or if it is someone off this board, because if they are not on this board, how can we know your not making this person up?
HLS, you may call your self a Christian all you would like, but to quote a line from the great movie about a Christian heroine named Corrie Ten Boom, “Just because there is a mouse in the cookie jar, that doesn’t make it a cookie.” I bring this up because you refer to yourself as a Christian and yet you follow a man who denies the diety of Christ and who would lead you to believe that you, yourself can become a God. I don’t see that in the teachings of Chirst.
“He claimed that his friends had been sold by a trick of his; and ‘treating’ with the customary whiskey hospitalities, the affair ended in good-nature.”
Actually, it was probably hard cider. The Smith’s worked hard for their cider, and charged up barrels of it from one Lemuel Durfee:
Durfee allowed the Smiths to remain in the frame house and on the farm. According to Lucy, Durfee “gave us the privileage [sic] of the place one year with this provision that Samuel our 4th son was to labor for him 6 months.”
Almost one year after the family became renters, the Wayne Sentinel announced, “MARRIED – In Manchester . . . Mr. Hiram Smith, to Miss Jerusha Barden.” They were married on 2 November 1826. Jerusha was twenty-one years old, and Hyrum was twenty-six. Lucy heartily approved, noting in her history, “My oldest son [Hyrum] . . . Married him a wife that was one of the most excellent of Women.” Two months later Joseph Jr. married Emma Hale in Bainbridge on 18 January 1827, bringing her back to live in the family home in Manchester. That same year, Sophronia married Calvin Stoddard on 30 December.
Young Joseph was often hired by Martin Harris to work “on his farm, and that they had hoed corn together many a day, Brother Harris paying him fifty cents per day. Joseph, he [Harris] said, was good to work and jovial and they often wrestled together in sport, but the Prophet was devoted and attentive to his prayers.”
Samuel Harrison Smith worked for the elder Durfee in 1827, according to one of Durfee’s account books: “April the 16 day the year 1827 S. Harrison Smith Son of Joseph Smith began to Work for me by the month. (Marquardt & Walters, Inventing Mormonism, Ch.6, p.122)
Hyrum continued working as a cooper and with his father and brothers for local farmers including Lemuel Durfee. They apparently took their wages in credits toward their purchases. In Durfee’s account book for 1827 he noted:
Joseph [Sr.] and Hiram Smith Dr [debit] to three barrels of Cider at 9/ per barrel May the Last 1827 [9 shillings per barrel]
June the 26 day Joseph Smith Dr. to Veal hind Quarter 23 pound $0.69 also one fore Quarter Wt. 22 pounds $=55 55
august Credit by Joseph Smith by mo[w]ing three days & Joseph Smith Ju Jnr. two days mowing & Hiram Smith one day mowing even
Sept. first to two barrels of Cider racked of[f] to Joseph & Hiram Smiths at 9/ per barrel $2=2532*
*Lemuel Durfee Account Book, 41-42, location of original in the King’s Daughters Library, Palmyra, New York, in 1973. (Marquardt & Walters, Inventing Mormonism, Ch.6, p.123)_johnny
Rick B has a question,
This amazing Christian who received revelation that Joseph Smith is a false prophet and the Book of Mormon is also false is none other than Falcon. I’m sure he will fill in any blanks I might have missed.
Helen, thank you for replying . I understand that you have a conviction , an internal
confirmation that the Book of Mormon is true etc. I agree that it contains much which
is good and accurate concerning who Jesus is and of the moral lifestyle He asks us to
live. When it comes to feeling good about something I really think caution is in order,
especially when it happens to be spiritual truths proclaimed by a prophet. A statement
that best sums up my view is the following one from another Christian ministry :
” All of us have feelings, and many of us have had subjective, intuitive experiences that
we thought came from someplace outside ourselves—- maybe even Gd Himself. We tend
to remember the experiences that worked out, the ones that confirmed what we thought
or felt, and quite often we forget the ones that never happen. If feelings came only from
God , they’d be a reliable source for knowing what’s true and what’s false. But the don’t.
Feelings , impressions, and subjective experiences come from a number of sources….
Prov.14:12; 1 Jn. 4:1 ….” When I approached the Book of Mormon ( over 30 yrs ago)
I had at first took a detailed look at Mormonism. Specifically , the leaders of the Church.
Their claims of authority were clear, and to know the truth of the Bible , I must trust their
guidance. A statement that I found only a couple of years ago, but which was similar to the
ones that I had looked at 30 years ago , stated very clearly why I could trust Mormon
prophets and apostles: ” These apostles and prophets, the revelators of God, were to act
as protection for the people against false prophets and teachings….” [ cont]
cont.
This statement I just referenced further promised that these modern day prophets
and apostles , “….will keep you on the right track so that you will not need to worry.”
So Helen what I did was to compare what these “living” prophets and apostles taught
on key doctrines , with what Jesus’ original apostles taught. This approach seemed
reasonable ( I was later to find out that even the BM warned about false teachers, and
being misled by the “precepts of men ” ( 2 Nephi ) . Well , after spending a lot of money
to purchase books by Mormon leaders where they laid out Mormon doctrine, I came to
the conclusion that these men were inaccurate in their teachings. Though they appeared
sincere and I’m sure lived morally upright lives, they were still wrong in their teachings
on God especially. Thus they were false teachers. Their own convictions were proclaimed
as being God’s truth. A few years later I read of apostle Ezra T. Benson’s spiritual guidance
to BYU students where he said that the living prophet took precedence over dead prophets,
This would include BM prophets. So now I see a choice to be made . Since the living prophets
seem to have “introduced” [ KJV = “bring in ” 2Pt.2:1 ] , serious false doctrines over the
BM teachings on God especially, then I can see that the Mormon Church is not led by
trustworthy apostles as it claims to be. It is troubling to realize that I could live every
doctrine/ordinance/commandment in the BM and still not gain eternal life with God IF
I did not accept and submit to the ” introduced ” doctrines of the leaders of the Mormon
church today. So I have to politely reject Mormonism and the BM. For me its 1Jn5:20
Well what a wonderful opportunity I have now to provide an answer for Helen who seems to get most things wrong when she replies to the Christians who post here.
In John 3:3-5 Jesus informs Nicodemus that he can’t see nor enter the kingdom of God unless he is born again. Nicodemus struggled to understand this concept but Jesus was holding him responsible for knowing based on Jeremiah 31:33-34 which is the New Heart Covenant. Jesus used the term “born again” because that’s what happens when someone comes to that place in their spiritual life where they understand that they are separated from God because of their sin and that they need a Savior.
Thus they come to Jesus in faith, accepting His finished work on the cross as propitiation for their sins; they are regenerated (born again) spiritually and the Holy Spirit comes to indwell them. The Christian becomes the temple of the Holy Spirit precluding the need for any type of physical structure like a church, tabernacle or temple in which God might dwell.
There’s no need for any more sacrifices because Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, however Christians become living sacrifices as they conform their behavior to God’s character through the process of sanctification provided by the Holy Spirit. Now through this process the Christian walks by the Spirit, crucifying the deeds of the flesh
There’s more to the transformation process as a result of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit then Christian’s conduct.
In First Corinthians 12:4-11 the apostle Paul instructs the Church on the Gifts of the Holy Spirit and through-out the remainder of this chapter and in chapters 13 and 14 he provides detailed information regarding the use of the Gifts.
In verse 10 of chapter 12 Paul notes one of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit as “distinguishing of spirits”. This is a way of Christians being able to tell the difference between the types of spirits and also to recognize a spirit that might be masquerading in an attempt to seduce or mislead (them).
So when a Mormon challenges a Christian to read the BoM and receive a message from God that it’s true or false, one important fact needs to be established. Ask the Mormon, “Who is your God?”
An honest Mormon will tell you that his god is one of millions or perhaps billions of gods, that this god was once was a sinful man who transformed himself into a god by following a protocol of the Mormon religion, that he lives on or near the planet/star Kolob with his many wives, and that they procreate spirit children who obtain human bodies through the normal fashion and have an opportunity to become gods themselves.
We would also learn from the honest Mormon that Joseph Smith was into second sight vision and divination all condemned by the Bible. We also know that Smith was fond of wearing a Jupiter tailsman and that the Mormon undergarment contains occult symbols as do many of their temples.
So based on this information and utilizing the Gift of the Holy Spirit to distinguish between spirits, there’s really no need to read the BoM and especially pray about it in the manner that Mormons insist that you (pray about it). Why in the world would someone want to open themselves up to seduction by a familiar spirit that haunts Mormonism.
Now I understand why some folks study the BoM for Christian apologetic reasons. That’s a whole different purpose with a different agenda.
So someone who is born again by the Spirit of God has been spiritually regenerated and has a personal relationship with Jesus.
Now my approach to prayer is basically conversing with God. My expectation is that because I’m indwelt by God’s Spirit, He will hear me and speak to me. Sometimes His “speaking” comes through the pages of Scripture, sometimes through the words of a friend and sometimes perhaps through a Word of Knowledge from the Lord. Most Christians I know expect to hear from God.
So when I asked God if reading the BoM would serve any purpose in my apologetic work He told me, “Why read something you know is false?”
Now I’ve had that confirmed by my friend Andy Watson who told me that he’s probably read the entire BoM more times than he’s read the entire Bible. His conclusion was that he wished he’d devoted that time to studying the Bible because that’s more effective in countering the claims of Mormonism than wowing some Mormon with his vast knowledge of the (BoM).
I thought that was excellent advice.
Just as a footnote to our Mormon readers. If you’ve put yourself under the spirit of Mormonism, that’s the spirit you’re going to hear from. The goal of that spirit is to take you away from God and darken your understanding. My advice to you is to rebuke that spirit and seek after the Spirit of God.
Falcon articulates, “So when I asked God if reading the BoM would serve any purpose in my apologetic work He told me, “Why read something you know is false?”
Much of his above findings deal little with actual revelation except for the above sentence. He talks of rebirth and faith. If I gather from what he states the rebirth comes before the working of the spirit and discernment. What he does conveniently leave out is the coming to Faith part, the how, what and why.
Faith first then knowledge? Knowledge only after the rebirth? confusing my friends for someone too state that Jesus is the Christ and yet not mention revelation. Awe yes, the gifts of the spirit after one is born again, very good and LDS also believe in that scripture and accept it at face value.
What did Peter say to Christ, “And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Matthew 16:16
How did Peter come to know that Christ was the Son of God?
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 16:17
How does one come to know that the Bible is the Word of God. By gifts? by discernment? by others?
I can see our Christian Friend now, “dear God I hold this Book in my hands and ask you if it is true?”
As God looks down upon this poor soul in amazement, He must being shaking His Head in frustration.
“Dear poor soul, my son you must first read it, study it, ponder it, and then ask.”
Well Helen,
I gave it my best shot.
I’ll try once more and then leave you in your current darkened but blissful state.
If there is confusion it is definitely on your part. I understand this since you are dealing with a spirit of confusion in Mormonism. People functioning in the “natural” cannot appraise “spiritual” things. Add into it the fact that Mormons are under a spirit of delusion that darkens their understanding and it’s pretty clear how they misunderstand, mis-state, and basically miss the entire point of spiritual rebirth.
Faith is a gift of God. It’s not something we work-up on our own initiative. In my past posts I made it clear that I came to know that I was a sinner and that there was no other option for me other than through Jesus Christ. The Spirit draws people, convicts them of their sinful condition, and leads them to the cross of Christ where they surrender and in faith receive the gift of eternal life that God is offering them. They are then born again by the Spirit of God and He comes and indwells them and they are a new person in Christ.
The Holy Spirit leads the Christian believer and teaches him/her. The Holy Spirit provides the means by which a Christian is transformed. The Gifts of the Holy Spirit are also the means by which individual Christians participate in the corporate life of the Body of Christ.
Let me leave it at this. I depend on the Spirit of God to guide me when it comes to discerning spiritual matters. I don’t call on some other spirit as represented by Mormonism, to give me an answer regarding whether or not the book this familiar spirit has inspired is true or not.
I don’t play Mormon games!