The Mormon Church recognizes four books as scripture: The Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, and the Bible. And yet, as noted at the MRM website,
Joseph Smith said [of the Bible], “Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 327). The First Presidency confirmed this idea in 1992 when they wrote, “The Bible, as it has been transmitted over the centuries, has suffered the loss of many plain and precious parts” (Presidents Ezra Taft Benson, Gordon B. Hinckley, and Thomas Monson, “Letter Reaffirms Use of King James Version of Bible,” Church News, June 20, 1992, 3). [A] BYU Professor explained that “the Bible is not, and was never intended to be, our sole guide, our template, our standard against which we measure what we teach or believe” (Review of Books on the Book of Mormon, 6:1, 198-199).
And though Mormons periodically use the Bible as their course of study in Sunday School as the curriculum rotates through the different volumes of Mormon scripture, in practice many Mormons do not give the Bible its due.
When visiting the Mormon Payson Temple during its open house in May 2015, Eric Johnson and I spoke with an LDS missionary who was staffing the open house’s hospitality tent (where visitors were ushered after their tours). As we discussed Mormon temples and how they differ from the biblical temple, and as we discussed the concept of Mormon exaltation and how it differs from biblical teachings on salvation and Heaven, the LDS missionary told us several times that she wasn’t very familiar with the Bible or its teachings.
Later, as Eric and I delivered newspapers to the homes surrounding the temple grounds, we enjoyed a long conversation with a life-long LDS woman. She told us that she wanted to get to know Christ better — that she wanted to understand Him more. She believed she would learn many things about Jesus in the Bible — a book, she said, that she hadn’t read much in her 70+ years. After admitting that she had some trouble understanding the language of the King James Version (the Bible the Mormon Church authorizes its members to use), Eric offered to give her a gift of a Bible in a more modern translation. The Mormon woman was hesitant to accept the gift. When asked if she would agree to read it, she said, “I won’t promise to read it, but I will promise to pray about whether I should read it.”
Mormonism builds reluctance in Latter-day Saints toward trusting – and using – the Bible. Mormons don’t know how accurate the Bible is, and they don’t know how much evidence exists for its historicity.
To borrow from and repurpose Joseph Smith—History 1:19, Mormonism draws near to the Bible with its lips, but its heart is far from it.
For Mormons (and others) who don’t know that the Bible can be trusted, here’s a short video (under 4 minutes) that presents a few reasons why Christians confidently place their trust in the Bible and embrace it wholeheartedly as the Word of God.
Atheists: “The bible has so many contradictions!”
Muslims: “The bible’s been corrupted!”
Mormons: “Plain and precious things have been removed!”
JW’s: “The original wording has been lost!”
Satan: “Has God indeed said . . .?” (Gen 3)
*sigh*. It’s almost tiresome.
Recently, I was invited to hear Elder Daniel Rona speak on the connection between Jews and the “House of Ephraim.” I am a Christian apologist, not a Mormon, and love talking to LDS, so I went. In an interesting twist, Elder Rona inadvertently supported the authority of the Bible by using it to prove that “the Christians” (his words,) were wrong about the day Jesus was crucified, saying it was actually Thursday, not Friday. Normally, LDS use the Bible’s perceived defects to prove traditional Christianity wrong, not it’s veracity. This was a first.
Thank you, Sharon, for your article on this most important subject.
One of my favorite passages about God’s word is 1 Peter 1 23-25. It reads:
That is a beautiful promise. God wants us to trust him. He wants us to trust his promises. He wants us to trust his Word, which lives and endures forever. How is one to trust God, if one does not trust what he says?
I think that there are some Mormons who hold the Bible to be no different than we do , they just feel the other Mormon ” scripture” are more current revelation from God . Sadly , to many Mormons simply take what some of their leaders tell them about the Bible being to defective to give anyone enough truth about God / salvation etc .
The real reason why Mormon leaders had to convince LDS that the Bible was ” old news” or not reliable is simply that the “unique ” doctrines of Mormonism were not taught in it and it was to frustrating to keep trying to shoehorn them into the Bible . So it became necessary to introduce other “scripture” , books , that made it easier to prove their new doctrines .
The Bible has the information that any sinner desires salvation can read and know the truth about God , Jesus , and how to receive complete salvation . That information has survived down through the years to today and along the way those who heard the gospel preached from the scriptures , or who read the scriptures , could respond ( Rom 1:16 ) be forgiven and reconciled to God . The Bible is sufficient , no need for Mormonism’s prophets and their teachings / gospel preaching .
It amazes me that when we are talking about the time, money and effort a person must put into the LDS religious sect of Mormonism, that people don’t check out the basic premises upon which it is built.
But let’s face it. That’s about the last thing the traveling band of Mormon Missionaries wants people to do. They sell the program on a feeling and leave the facts hidden away in the back room. This is a true bait-and-switch outfit.
Our topic here is dealing with the veracity of the Biblical text. The LDS church wisely tells people that the Bible can’t be trusted. I say “wisely” because if a person examines this foundational premise/claim of Mormonism, they won’t join the LDS church.
In our day and age, all a person would have to do is google something like, “can the Bible be trusted”. That’s a very simple global broad search. All sorts of information, pro and con, will come popping up. Then the person can examine the information, check out the reliability of the source and guess what…………………..they won’t join the LDS church.
Because if the Bible contains God’s revelation to mankind, the LDS church can’t be true. The Good News as revealed in the Biblical text has no relation, none, zero to the “restored” gospel. One is true and one is false. Guess which one is false? BINGO the one that says the Biblical text is corrupted and can’t be trusted.
I noticed that the video clip referred to the inerrancy of the Bible, stating that it was absolutely authored by God through man. I personally believe that the concept of Biblical inerrancy is unnecessary for salvation and that it leads many to discount Christianity when they see inconsistencies or contradictions in the Bible.
Those who would argue for the absolute inerrancy of the Bible are entitled to their opinion, but I don’t think they should impose that opinion on the rest of us. Some of us, for example, wonder how God put two of every living creature on Noah’s Ark, or how God would wager with Satan over Job’s faithfulness, or how “the sun stood still, and the moon stopped” rotating around the Earth for a full day (Joshua 10:12-14) .
We read the teachings of Peter and Paul and notice contradictions. Many of us have concluded that Paul was right when he explained that some events in the Bible are ambiguous, and that “now we see in a mirror dimly…; now I know in part, but then I will know fully…” 1 Corinthians 13:12.
We can appreciate the Bible and adopt Christ’s teachings without knowing exactly why the Old Testament portrays God so harshly (Jeremiah 13:14; Deuteronomy 7:16; 1 Samuel 6:19), or exactly how the Trinity works. Or whether the infant Jesus was taken to Egypt (Matthew 2: 14-23) or not (Luke 2: 22, 39). Or whether both thieves on the cross reviled Jesus (Matthew 27:44; Mark 15:32), or just one of them did (Luke 23:39-40).
And the Bible is certainly less than clear about how many women visited Christ’s tomb, but we can appreciate Christ’s victory over death without knowing if He was visited by only one woman (John 20:1), or two women (Matthew 28:1), or more than two women (Matthew 27:56), or whether or not the accounts are speaking of different persons at different times. Nor does it adversely affect our faith in Christ if the Bible is ambiguous about whether He was to spend two days (Mark 15:42-46) or three days (Matthew 12:40) in the tomb.
I would recommend that we all recognize that today we see in a mirror dimly, knowing only in part, and that the authors of the books of the Bible were human and subject to error. God seems to have been tolerant enough to allow the scribes’ errors to remain in place; so should we.
Buff,
Here’s a couple of things to consider. Is God soverign? Does the Bible contain various literary devices in communicating God’s message? Did Jesus, as recorded in the Gospels, refer to any people, places or events from the OT?
In one of Paul’s letters he writes that while with these folks, he purposed to know only Christ and Him crucified.
historybuff, I too understand that some Christians have explained to non believers things about the Bible that are going to far . However , if we don’t articulate this issue clearly then it will cause people to distrust everything in the Bible from cover to cover . What the apostles penned was not in error , it was God breathed . Over time with copying that record errors have happened , but how significant are these errors ? Is any fundamental doctrine polluted ? Can we trust the Bible today to inform us who God is and how to be forgiven and receive salvation from Him ? I believe we can trust it . The mistakes made in translating are well documented and don’t damage confidence in the scriptures we have . God indeed has allowed the truth about Him , His Son , and how to be reconciled to Him to survive down to our very day . The same gospel that saved people in Paul’s day is still available today and can be found in the Bible .
Let me briefly respond to some of your comments . I’ll do it paragraph by paragraph .
Second paragraph : you mentioned about wondering how God could do certain things we find mentioned in the O.T. Nothing wrong with that , there is much to wonder about , many things that perplex us etc . But that certainly does not mean we throw the Bible out the window or hold it at arms length not trusting it is from God .
Third paragraph : you mentioned contradictions in the teachings of Peter and Paul , that some events in the Bible are ” ambiguous ” . I think there be some apparent contradictions . But not wholesale contradictions . Perhaps in time reasonable answers to these questions will come . I know that research in the past has cleared up some of perceived contradictions , so I’ll wait for more .
Fourth paragraph : This was fine . We certainly don’t fully know why God did some of the things He did , or completely understand deep doctrine ( the Trinity ) . But that is no logical reason to jettison the Bible . Heck , I can’t wrap my brain around some of the things I see in the world around me but they are nonetheless real .
Fifth paragraph : you mentioned that the Bible appears ” certainly less than clear ” about some the events it records in the New Testament . Again, that is something that is not a bonafide contradiction if we could understand the background behind these things . We may never know enough of the pertinent facts about these .
Last paragraph : This is the one statement of yours that is troubling : ” …. that the authors of the books of the Bible were human and subject to error .”
The men that God chose to write down what the Holy Spirit gave them were indeed just ordinary men . However , what they penned was not in error . It was God’s word . Unfortunately other men who later translated these writing did make some ” human errors ” and so today the Bible is not totally free from some scribal mistakes . But these are not damaging to what God wants us all to
know about important spiritual truths .
The Bible can be trusted to reveal not only who our Creator is , but that there is a Savior . He has not left us groping around in the dark vainly trying to find Him and be accepted by Him . We can pick up a Bible and discover His wonderful love and forgiveness , and that He sent His Son to die for us personally to reconcile us to Himself . That’s the good news the Bible is famous for . The Mormon people can find out about God and how to be accepted by Him by reading His word in the Bible.
No need for Mormon leaders .
Thanks for sharing your thoughts about the Bible . Glad you see you reading and appreciating it .
I thank you all for your comments, and I agree with them. Any errors in the Bible are inconsequential and will someday be explained, and they shouldn’t prevent a reasonable person from accepting its basic truths and Christ’s grace.
I did have one slightly irreverent thought, though. Mike R., you said, “The men that God chose to write down what the Holy Spirit gave them were indeed just ordinary men. However , what they penned was not in error. It was God’s word. Unfortunately other men who later translated these writing did make some ” human errors ” and so today the Bible is not totally free from some scribal mistakes.” Sounds a lot like Mormon doctrine to me. Hmmmmmmm…
Reading through these comments, I’m reminded how important it is for Christians to have a proper understanding of what Inerrancy is, whether you agree with it or not. If someone is under the impression that Inerrancy means that their NIV is completely free from error and couldn’t possibly have so much as a typographical error in Luke’s genealogy and that, if it does, NONE of the bible can be trusted, then they’re setting themselves up for disappointment.
Inerrancy is not nearly so hard to swallow as some seem to think it is. It simply means this: What God affirms as true in his word as it was originally written, is true. This allows for translation issues. This allows for scribal errors and slips of the pen (side note: I’m handwriting a copy of the bible as a personal project and man, let me tell you, it is HARD to avoid those). It also allows for literary styling, metaphor, rounded numbers, paraphrasing, etc.
I admit that this can be harder to reconcile in some places, but often a little study and research into the original language or cultural context can clear up many of them. To be honest, I’ve yet to see one that is truly irreconcilable and I don’t know of any that require exorbitant amounts of linguistic gymnastics.
historybuff, What I said may sound on the surface like ” Mormon doctrine ” , but I assure you it is’nt in line with what I have read from Mormon authorities about the Bible .
– Mormon authorities : the Bible has been corrupted to the extent that many important truths necessary for salvation are no longer found in it , evil men excised them out . Mormon prophets needed to introduce these truths and others so that salvation can be attained .
Me : Today’s Bible is not free from some scribal errors . None of these errors have rendered the Bible as unfit to reveal the truth about God , Jesus , and the true gospel of salvation Jesus’ apostles
preached . Anyone can know these and thus receive total forgiveness and complete salvation .
God has preserved the vital truths for us today to know about Him and His Son and how to receive eternal life from them . No need for Mormon prophets what so ever .
In a fine example of the Mormon church P.R. Dept at work we find this statement by a Mormon apostle :
” Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints ( known informally by the nickname Mormons ) believe the Bible . Indeed, so literally and completely do their beliefs and practices conform to the teachings of the Bible that it is not uncommon to hear informed persons say : ‘ If all men believed the Bible , all would be Mormons ‘ . Bible doctrine is Mormon doctrine , and Mormon doctrine is Bible doctrine . They are one and the same .” ( Bruce McConkie , ” What the Mormons Think of Christ ” p. 2 cited in Mormon Claims Answered , by Marvin Cowan p 23 ] .
It’s statements like that one which has caused people to be fooled . Thankfully there are Christian ministries that can provide information to people so that they can know the full story about Mormonism and prevent them from being fooled into following it’s false prophets .
Christians claim that the original, as penned, is inerrant. I believe it’s called the original autographs. We don’t claim that any copies are inerrant. I lent my copy of “Essential Christianity” to someone so I don’t have the information at my fingertips, but there’s something like less than 1% “error” and it doesn’t effect basic doctrine of the faith.
There’s been a lot of work/research done on the accuracy of the Biblical text. This would include inter-text comparison (between) copies of the oldest known manuscripts as well as examination of the accuracy of the various translations of the Bible. Bottom line is that the Mormon claim regarding corruption of the text is weak.
But the other question is whether or not the Bible is true. We can be confident that the most accurate translations that we have are a fair representation of the original (autographs). Now as to “truth”, that’s probably more a function, in-the-end, of faith.
I guess what I ask myself is are the accounts, especially in the OT, real history or just stories used to make a point? The creation story, the Fall, the Tower of Babel, the Flood with Noah and the Ark, the call of Abraham and on and on. There’s the theme of God reconciling mankind to Himself after the Fall via a perfect sacrifice for sin.
Does any of it make any sense? That’s where faith comes in. I would say that my coming to Christ in faith was spiritual in nature and really didn’t have anything to do with my searching out evidence for the existence of God. I came under conviction regarding my sin and saw Christ as the solution to my separation from God. I would say that we have evidence that Jesus was a historical figure. The next step then is making a determination about who He is and if His death on the cross has any redeeming value.
I don’t worship the Bible. I trust it however as God’s revelation.
Hm, well I hope I’m not off topic by defending the inerrancy of the Bible.
1. Buff you claim “God put two of every living creature on Noah’s Ark” yet the Bible states that of every ‘kind’ God asked Noah to place in the ark (Gen. 6:20, NASB). Perhaps you are confusing the creation account on how God made every living creature (Gen. 2;19, NASB). Some would say that God placed progenitors or two ‘types’ of every creature, from which we have our modern species.
2. It’s not inconsistent for God to wager “over Job’s faithfulness” in terms of the inerrancy of Scripture. Perhaps you can make an argument over how fair or even how God just is, but that’s a different topic, because we are discussing the inerrancy of Scripture.
3. Or even “the sun stood still, and the moon stopped” rotating around the Earth for a full day (Joshua 10:12-14). Once again, if you read your daily newspaper or blog or news article, we receive information through metaphorical language. That the sun stood still is simply observing that the sun did not rise in the ‘east’ or set in the west. Does the sun rise or does the earth move around the sun? We are aware of the scientific basis of the earth’s rotation around the sun, but we still say that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. This is hardly an appeal to anything besides a lack of understanding of context. If we can use metaphorical language today to describe our daily events, so can the authors of the Bible.
4. Can you be specific as to which contradictions in Peter and Paul’s writings have contradictions, I have found none. Be more specific. Paul didn’t describe ambiguity, only that we do not know all things in full: “Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known” (1 Cor. 13:12, NASB)
5. “the Old Testament portrays God so harshly (Jeremiah 13:14 ; Deuteronomy 7:16; 1 Samuel 6:19)
A. (Jeremiah 13:14, NASB) – This is figurative language, if you look at verse 18 (Jeremiah 13:18), he discusses the King and Queen mother, who is this? Why does he refer to two who reign but only one crown? Surely you’ve missed the point of figurative language and the natural destruction that happens to a society (that God permits) when they choose corruption over justice and mercy. Once again you are discussing the justice and the mercy of God rather than the inerrancy of Scripture.
6. There is really no evidence that Jesus was not taken to Egypt. Do you have any early documents from proper sources that argue otherwise? Prove your argument from reliable sources. Besides this, you’ll note that Jesus’ flight into Egypt happens when he was a young child well after the Luke 2:22 narrative. Please check your historical narrative, that will help enjoin the pieces of history so you will not be confused on the historicity of the Jesus’ early life.
7. If there are two thieves who revile Jesus, and one author records that one thief reviled Jesus, that simply is not an error but an account. If the author were to record that only one thief reviled Jesus, you have an error. But I challenge you to find the word or phrase that makes the thief’s statement exclusive. (Mark 15:32, Luke 23:39-40). Some commentators have explained that what was recorded was specific to time. That both reviled him at a certain point in the resurrection, whereas one of them reviled him earlier. This may explain why the repentant thief didn’t revile him later, but repented.
8. “And the Bible is certainly less than clear about how many women visited Christ’s tomb”
A lot of commentators actually state that the fact that the accounts differ on minor points clearly show a lack of conspiracy to change events. They were recorded just as the authors saw them.
You’ll find a reconciliation here .
9. “Nor does it adversely affect our faith in Christ if the Bible is ambiguous about whether He was to spend two days”. You’ll note there were 2 Sabbaths in the resurrection week. The usual Sabbath ending the week, and the Passover Sabbath. Depending on which Sabbath you calculate from, you’ll have a different number of days. (cf. John 19:31, NASB) You can also find a narrative of the three day chronology here:
With just a little time and effort, you will find that in context, the Bible does not have contradictions and is inerrant.
When I look far enough I seem to find examples of Mormons who are finding out what we are trying to convince the Mormon people to do , i.e. study the New Testament because it is from God !
Popular radio and t.v. media personality , Glen Beck , recently said on his Facebook page :
” It is so funny that I am teaching the New Testament . I never liked the New Testament …. until I really read it . I love it it . So rich . The four Gospels are good but my favorite is Paul . He is ‘ da man ‘ ! I can’t wait until we get to Acts . Everything we need to save ourselves , our families and country you can find in the writings of Paul . I don’t know why when people ask me who my favorite writer is I don’t answer Paul ! I will from now on . I ca’nt wait to teach about him because I am sure most of the class loves him as much as I do .”
[ he was announcing that he will be teaching the N.T. in a gospel doctrine class at his church ] .
Mr Beck has been hanging around a lot of Christian leaders , visiting their churches , and working with them on social causes etc . We need to be praying that soon he will dismiss his apostles and cling to the true ones in the New Testament .
“Indeed, so literally and completely do their beliefs and practices conform to the teachings of the Bible that it is not uncommon to hear informed persons say : ‘ If all men believed the Bible , all would be Mormons ”
Anyone else never hear this?
I stand corrected. Any ambiguities in the Bible are inconsequential, reasonable generalizations, oversights, metaphors or parables. Are we agreed, then, that the Book of Job is an extended parable and that God and Satan did not actually sit down and bet on Job’s faithfulness (Job 1:1-12)?
Buff…………
Just remember that the Bible contains a lot of different literary devices. Some of the most common literary devices used in the Bible are: simile, metaphor, allegory, parable, proverb. And More than 5,000 ancient Greek copies of all or portions of the NT have been found. Although there are minor variances in the copied manuscripts, none effect doctrinal issues.
Now if a Mormon would come to know and believe a couple of these facts, it would pretty much blow-up their belief in the premise for Mormonism.
Agreed.
I think it’s important to realize how to minister to the Mormon people about how they have been detoured by prophets , the kind of prophets which Jesus pre warned would come in the latter days — Matt 24:11. We all want to steer LDS back to anchoring their important beliefs to the foundation of Christian teachings — the Bible . Testing any latter days prophet/messenger by comparing their teachings with God’s prophets and apostles in the Bible is vital to avoid the kind of prophets Jesus warned about .
One of the ways to do this is to look for statements by Mormon leaders about the Bible that we can use as a springboard in focusing their attention on how vital it is to get back to basics , to a sure foundation on which to anchor our beliefs , and that foundation is the Bible . Mormon leaders have actually said some very true and useful statements which we also believe and thus can be thus used to minister to them . A couple of examples :
” Thus the Bible is much more than simply a collection of antiquated writings and revelations that have only scant relevance to the modern world . On the contrary , it stands at the center of the Latter Day Saints spiritual lives . ” [ commentary , LDS Newsroom statement — 1-25-2008 ] .
There is also the statement by Mormon apostle M Russel Ballard where he characterized the Bible as the ” bedrock of all Christianity .” [ General Conference 4-2007 , ” The Miracle of the Holy Bible “]
These are statements that are true , they are part of an effort to appeal to non LDS that Mormonism is worthy of joining . But statements like these can be used by those wishing to reach the Mormon people and ask them to check out and see if they have been detoured from the truth about Jesus by men who have swerved from the truth by building man made teachings onto the foundation, the bedrock , that is the Bible .
Paul’s counsel in Gal 1:8 and 2Tim 4:3,4 are appropriate for Mormons to use in taking inventory of their lives to double check whether or not they have been fooled by latter days prophets not sent by Jesus even though these prophets may be polite well dressed individuals .
Let’s encourage the Mormon people to take a month a read the New Testament alone several times . Not a copy published by their church and no other church literature . What’s in there ? Are those who learned from Jesus’ apostles , Mormons ? We pray for them to make this a priority in their busy lives .
Mike R. —
Excellent point. The New Testament in particular tends to touch the hearts of the LDS, and the King James Version that they favor is perfectly fine and something with which they’re familiar. It’s also important to remember that all LDS hold their leaders in high esteem and will resist any effort to persuade them that their leaders are evil or deceitful. They will, however, believe that their leaders have been mistaken and that the false history the LDS have been taught is the result of their leaders trying to protect their fragile testimonies.
You and I may view this “lack of candor” in a different, more sinister light, but that will not fly with active and inactive Mormons who revere their leaders. Mormons who will listen to your message are already hurting to some degree, and they will respond better to truth and kindness, and a patient sympathy for the mistakes of their leaders.
historybuff,
I was thinking of those two Mormon women that Sharon and Eric talked to which they mention above .
It’s sad that these two Mormons had such a view of the Bible that it occupied such a tiny place in their lives . On another note , it’s good to know that the Mormon church ‘s Sunday school course of study for this year is the New Testament . Hopefully many LDS will study it earnestly to see if those who were converted by the apostles ministry were Mormons or not , and if not that will spur them into looking further into the issue . So there’s hope many will dig into the New Testament with a desire to know if they are in the truth or not . Anyway, that’s my prayer for them .
Earlier you mentioned that the Book of Job was a parable . For what it’s worth , that seems odd to
me . The Old Testament has a lot of perplexing things mentioned in it , and some books are written in poetic style ( Proverbs etc ) But I take it as historical unless the context shows otherwise . I’ve always viewed Job as a real person .
Thanks again for sharing how the Mormon mind reasons . It’s valuable to us who’ve never been Mormon to understand these precious people .
Buff
While on his mission, Micah Wilder was challenged by a Baptist minister he had witnessed to, to read the NT like a child. He wasn’t referencing immaturity but the fresh eyes and innocents that children can look at things.
I’m concerned about the LDS studying the NT with their Mormon goggles on. The Word will be distorted and will be a corruption in regards to its meaning. However, the LDS can still have those moments when they see the inconsistency between what the Bible teaches and what they, as Mormons, have been taught to believe.
Lynn Wilder, Micah’s mother, had to start with a red letter Bible and read only the words of Jesus. After a while she was able to expand beyond that and yes, she ended up leaving the LDS church (as well as the whole family). Quite a sacrifice since she also had to leave her job as a BYU professor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D569x5TqtVk
The “restored” gospel of Mormonism stands in stark contrast to the Gospel as presented in God’s Word. Is it no wonder that the LDS church teaches that the Bible is corrupt? From their perspective, it is corrupt.
The message that the LDS preaches is not the same as that found in the Bible. In order to account for this, Mormonism has come up with the conspiracy theory that repetitive copying has caused many pure and precious truths to be lost. And that claim is the camels nose under the tent.
If people can be convinced that the Bible is not reliable, then all sorts of aberrant and heretical doctrines can be promoted. To boil it down, the message of the Bible is that we are separated from God because of our sin. God in His benevolence and mercy provided a remedy for our dilemma of being separated from Him. That remedy is found in the Biblical instruction that it is by grace we have been saved through faith and not the result of any works that we might do.
Not only does Mormonism teach a different God and a different Savior but it teaches a different plan of salvation. Either the Bible is wrong or Mormonism is wrong. There’s no such thing as a little bit of light. We are either in the light or in darkness. Twilight won’t do. Spiritually speaking, there is no such thing as twilight. Our sin puts us in darkness no matter the frequency or intensity of that sin.
Jesus is the only answer and coming to Him in faith puts us in the light.
About the Job passage, it’s important to recognize that it was an honor challenge. Honor and shame were big deals to the Israelites. In that sense, Job is not much different than the passage where Jesus spends 40 days in the desert – another challenge to God’s glory from the one most opposed to God’s glory.
People leave Mormonism for a variety of reasons. We see with Micah Wilder and then his mother Lynn Wilder, prominent among the reasons they left the LDS church was related directly to their reading of the Bible. Funny how that works. As I’ve mentioned in other posts, there’s a reason why Mormonism attacks the Word of God, specifically the veracity, accuracy and final revelation presented there. If I can get someone to down-grade the Bible in their minds, to sow seeds of doubt that it is the Word of God and the final revelation regarding salvation (for example) I can take people where ever I want them to go. They will follow willingly because I now become the chief revelator of God.
John Dehlin, when he was still LDS, did a presentation on why people leave the LDS church. I’m going to link to a video with Grant Palmer done within the last month where he discusses William Law and why he left Joseph Smith during the Nauvoo era. For those not familiar with William Law, he was the man who got his printing press wrecked by agents of Smith because he (Law) exposed what was being hidden in Smith’s life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjfbCKG6Jus
falcon, you’re right about why Mormon leaders came up with the lie that the Bible is to corrupted/ altered to deliver the true gospel of salvation . It was apparent that trying to successfully squeeze their new doctrinal revealments into it was futile so it also became necessary to say that it was only the product of ” dead prophets ” which was superceeded by the modern day revelations of the “living prophets ” of Mormonism . Very clever . Very convenient .
The Bible is God’s Word . It reveals all the information that sinners need to know who God is , His Son , and how to be reconciled to Him . The true gospel of salvation is available in the New Testament and has been preserved there for a long long time . The latter days prophets of Mormonism don’t like that fact , it stymies their attempt to sell their new doctrines to the public .
It’s easier to say the Bible is damaged goods and can’t deliver the authentic good news of Jesus — the gospel of salvation He sent His apostles out to preach and which God has preserved ever since .
According to Mormonism , because of a complete universal apostasy , salvation was not available to mankind for 1700 years, then Joseph Smith showed up and it ” was again ” available . That’s the kind of lie that Mormon leaders created to begin their replacement of the Bible as efficient to deliver the saving message of Jesus – Rom 1:16 .
Mike
For marketing purposes, Smith had to have something new and improved. His selling points early on was the BoM and that individuals could also receive direct revelation from God. This went along, at least to a degree, with the revivals of the moment. I think it was in contrast to Calvinism and the hierarchy of the clergy.
People like new stuff and the more spectacular the better. There’s also a certain segment of the population who will get all wound-up by someone asserting that everything in the established religion is wrong, I’ve got the answer. It’s a fine line to walk.
Actually what Smith had to offer, including the BoM, was already “in the air”. He had an ability to synthesize and shape knowledge/information into something new sounding and then had the personal magnetism to sell it.
Hello everyone. I’ve been a reader of this blog for some time, but I finally decided to throw my hat into the ring! I am a Christian missionary in South America, and although my work here is not focused on Mormons, I have had several opportunities to give workshops on Mormonism to Christian groups here that are interested in learning about the church. I have never been a Mormon, but God has given me a special burden for the Mormon people and an insatiable appetite to learn as much as I can in order to be an effective witness. This blog has been an invaluable tool in feeding that appetite! For this particular thread, one question immediately comes to mind. While it is not difficult to understand that Mormons, after endlessly being hit over the head by their leaders with the refrain that “the Bible has been corrupted”, buy the idea that certain parts of the Bible are not reliable. But has it never occurred to the average rank and file member to inquire exactly which verses/sections/chapters/books have not been translated correctly? It is my understanding that even the JST does not fully address this issue. It would seem that God has decided to remain silent, keeping His people in confusion, even though for the past 180 years He has had a living prophet ready, willing and able to relay that information.
MishMom, welcome .
My thought about the question you posed is that if the Bible is in as bad of shape as some Mormon leaders have claimed it is then why have’nt they fixed it ? Supposedly , God is constantly directing the affairs of the Mormon church , and given the claim that the prophet is a ” Seer and Revelator” , you would think he would ask God for the wisdom to fix the Bible . Yet LDS still carry the officially endorsed KJV Bible to their local Wards each Sunday . The answer of course is that the Bible is not in as bad of shape as Mormonism has claimed , they have to say it is in order to get attention over to their other ” scriptures ” as quickly as possible .
@HistoryBuff
I said, “Some commentators have explained that what was recorded was specific to time. That both reviled him at a certain point in the resurrection, whereas one of them reviled him earlier. This may explain why the repentant thief didn’t revile him later, but repented.”
this should have read,
“Some commentators have explained that what was recorded was specific to time. That both reviled him at a certain point in the resurrection, whereas one of them reviled him later. This may explain why the repentant thief didn’t revile him later, but repented.”
I’m sure we can discuss the fairness or perhaps even the justice of God, but it may fall outside of the bounds of the current discussion. Feel free to contact me by email for more information. [email protected] – there’s an “a” before the ampersand not an e.
@Falcon
Well said.
MishMom
I think what we see with aberrant and heretical group leaders is a repeat of time tested tactics to undermine the Christian faith and promote another gospel. Eventually, as with Smith, what these leaders are all about is power, sex and money.
Smith, like all of these false prophets, have some exceptional gifts, primarily the ability to persuade. They speak with confidence and enthusiasm. They are unusually good liars. They are either sociopaths or someone so taken with their own ideas that they actually believe their own lies.
Towards the end of his life, Smith believed that anything he did or said was sanctioned by God. He was totally out of control.
Sharon,
Nice to see that there was discussion about the difference in the actual temple and the Mormon temple. I remember taking a lot of heat from Christians discussing that on this blog. I think it has a lot of importance in being able to see that LDS is a false religion. Just like many other religions.
When I have more time I will respond to some of these other comments that are making me shake my head. It will be a crash course in some Hebrew culture and history tho. There is so much to understand about that and I think knowing some of those things helps to explain what are thought to be discrepancies in the text of the NT. As far as the story of Job remember what the word HaSatan actually means. It means adversary. There is even a story in the OT where a man says to someone “why are you being a HaSatan unto me?” Why are you being an adversary to me? Anything that causes us to stumble or not be able to fulfill the purpose that God has given us can be a HaSatan unto us.
I decided not to respond to all the questions. I figured it would be best to stay out of it.
What struck me about the Book of Mormon is that there is phrases in the text that are very obviously “lifted” from the New Testament.
Give me the Bible any day. The Book of Mormon is an interesting (and confusing) read, but it cannot take the place of the Bible. I’m always astounded at the number of Mormons who have never actually read either book.
“are phrases in the text”… sorry.
@CattyJane
Good to see you posting on MRM. If it’s not too much trouble, could you list the verse that discusses that? I believe the definite article plus adversary word usage in the Hebrew is limited to Job and Zechariah. There is a verse that asks “Why have you become my adversary today?” (2 Sam. 19:22, NASB) but this isn’t ‘HaSatan’ but “לְשָׂטָ֑ן.” (‘lesatan’)
Thanks.
@CattyJane
I should have concluded the last comment with ‘HaSatan’ is limited to only ‘the adversary’ or ‘the accuser’ as you have correctly labelled, a unique title only used in the Old Testament or Hebrew Bible in connection with the devil, Satan, or the chief opponent of God. The other uses of the word ‘satan’ do not have the definite article associated with the word. Therefore, the other passages (outside of Zechariah and Job) can be taken to mean adversary in a general sense, however, in Job and Zechariah, the usage of ‘the adversary’ appears quite easily understood as it’s written.