Glenn Beck, an outspoken member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, caused quite a stir on his July 13, 2010 broadcast when he spent a good portion of his show explaining the difference between the Christian view of individual salvation, and the collective view of salvation proffered by proponents of Black liberation theology. He explained:
“You cannot earn your way into heaven. You can’t! There is no deed, no random act of kindness, no amount of money to spread around to others that earns you a trip to heaven. It can’t happen. It’s earned by God’s grace alone, by believing that Jesus died on the cross for you. This is what Christians believe.”
Like you mobaby, I too am a monergist. Both justification and sanctification are, through and through, God's doing.
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A common refrain of Mormons is "We're Christian's, we believe the same as you do." Now come on, do Mormons who say this really believe it, are they playing word games, or are they being deceptive in order to bolster their recruiting efforts? In Glenn Beck's case it's hard to know. I watched part of his Founders Friday program some weeks back and you'd have thought the guy was an evangelical. In many cases what Mormons do is simply redefine the terms and say it's the same (as Christianity).
Mormons have to do a lot of ignoring in order to say they believe the same as Christians. They have to ignore their history and all of the writings and pronouncements of their leaders past and present. When we point these things out we're told that we have it all wrong that what these "prophets" said really doesn't mean what they said or the "prophet" was just giving his opinion.
I remember Bill McKeever saying he liked the old time Mormon leaders like Bruce McConkie because they actually would say it straight. Mormons today are banking on a a process that takes about three years where by they can hide Mormonism from the recruits and kick the can down the road in terms of the real Mormonism. That's why we have those that leave Mormonism talk about being lied to and deceived. When a group has two-thirds of its "members" as "inactive" maybe it's time to be honest. However then they'd never get the recruits in the first place.
Wow! Thanks for sharing this article! VERY interesting!!
I realize that. I did not miss that point. You are missing the point that although God gives you the faith, only those that choose to accept that gift of faith are the ones who are saved! If were only initiated by god with no choosing of our own, then God would be unjust to choose some people to give faith to and others, not to. You're taking away personal accountability.
Okay fine, God chooses us first, but it still is the point you would not have been saved without you accepting his choosing of you. You accept by confessing his name and having faith. Mormons accept by confessing his name, having faith, and also repenting and getting baptized. The EVs obsession over Mormons and grace is a complete misunderstanding of our doctrine. WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE! But you must DO something to be saved, just like in your doctrine.
You believe in predestination? One is predestined to salvation or damnation on no account of their action? That's quite an awful falsehood you believe. Predestination is quite different than God KNOWING the future of whether one will be saved and damned. Then what's the point of judgement if our salvation is predetermined? Wow, I had no idea how far astray you guys really were.
Wow. I am speechless.
I'm 7, your idea of God's foreknowledge is commonly known as Arminianism after Jacobus Arminius. Arminius believed that men choose to accept God's grace. If this is true, then it gives me something to boast about when I get to heaven; either my superior intellect, spirituality, or sensitivity to morality which led me to see my need for a savior and repent. First things first: Christians are moved by the Holy Spirit to see their sin. They are moved by the Holy Spirit to repent (turn from their sin and turn to God), and moved by the Holy Spirit to be baptized in obedience to Christ's command. Your above ideas of faith being the work that is necessary for salvation, then work afterward is directly in line with the Roman Catholic theology that created the Protestant Reformation. Men died for the doctrine of God's grace apart from man's choice and work. Do you understand that? Men were burned alive for daring to translate the bible into the common language so people could hear the true gospel: That salvation is by grace, through faith , and this (that is faith, because grace cannot be of ourselves otherwise it would not be grace, but merit) not of yourself, it is a gift of God, so that no man can boast. That is the point of Ephesians 2:8-9. Salvation is pre-ordained so that it cannot fail. Romans 8:28-29 tells us that all things work for the good of those who are called according to God's purpose, because those he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. This conforming will occur!. Verse 30 continues, "And those he predestined, he also called; and those he called, he also justified (declared righteous; completed action), and those he justified, he also glorified." Because this is God's pre-determined will, it will occur. Remember Ephesians 2 from above? Paul previously said in Chapter 1:4-11 that we (the recipients of His salvation blessed with every spiritual blessing) were chosen before the foundation of the world (before we had done good or bad) that we may be holy (set apart) and unblemished (sinless) in His sight in love. He did this by predestining us to adoption as his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the pleasure of His will-to the praise of His grace that He freely bestowed on us in His dearly loved Son (notice that this predestining to holiness and sinlessness was done according to God's will to the praise of His glorious grace? How dare you boast in your righteousness.) Verse 11 again says that we were predestined according to the one purpose of Him who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of His will. Salvation is completely of God for His purposes and according to His will. If you don't believe in predestination, your argument is with the bible, not with Christians. Predestination does not mean that God predestined us because He knew we would choose Him, it means He predetermined our completed salvation. As far as judgment goes, all men are deserving of judgment and damnation for their sins. God chose, before the foundation of the world, according to His purposes and the counsel of His sovereign will, to save some that He would be praised for his glorious grace. The good news of the gospel is that if you understand who God is, understand who you are before Him, confess your sins and repent, and believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins, He will save you. Period. Your problem is that you have the wrong God, the wrong Jesus, and your gospel of works to deserve God's grace is not good news. Remember, God's grace is only sufficient after you have done all you can do. God's grace was sufficient for me the moment he called me to be His servant. Praise God!
Who are we to say God is unjust? It's God's mercy that He saves anyone. No one chooses God. Our hearts are corrupt and prone only to sin. God in His mercy saves His people. Jesus said "my sheep know my voice." Justice dictates that we are punished for our wickedness and sin – so it would not be unjust to punish us all. Mercy is given that salvation comes through Christ. Just like the 3 year old, I have heard the message of Christ crucified for my sins, I have seen what God did coming to earth to save me, and I trust in His mercy. Not because I am any better than anyone else, or have made the more righteous choice – only because of Jesus' mercy. We call out to God – have mercy on me a sinner.
If you die on the operating table can you will yourself back to life? Or are you totally dependant on the doctors at hand to give you life? When you are dead in your trespasses you can't will yourself to life. You don't even know your dead…Outside of the grace of God being poured out on you the idea of there being life that you need would be lost on you. So faith is not a 'work' it's a response to grace. If I die on the operating table my heart beating again isn't a work I did that resulted in my living again, it's a response of my heart to the work the doctors have done on me. I didn't do any work to have a saving faith, God did the work, my faith is a natural response to His calling me.
Glenn Beck….does he really represent Mormonism? Even as an ex-LDS member, I find that scary. I would find him embarrassing, kind of like Sarah Palin for fundamentalist christians. Glenn Beck may do a lot of work for Mormon Coffee without meaning to!
Hey Enki, nice to hear from you. 🙂 Hope things are going well…
Semantics.
Thank you setfree. I peek in on occation. I have been to Glenn Becks hometown in Washington. Many business owners have put up a sign saying "how embarrassing" with his photo.
I was sitting in my sons home visiting with them when my daughter-in-law turned on this particular program. I listened very carefully. Because what he said concerning how a person becomes a Christian was accurate according to what the Bible teaches. I have heard that message and even shared that truth many times. There was nothing I could do to save myself. God had to draw me. I had to say yes you are right God. I am sinner and Christ paid for my sin on the cross. Me acknowledging this and asking him to save me is all a work of grace. Now because I am saved then comes the result of faith, good works which is evidence of what happened within my heart.
Jesus Christ is my Savior. And I am praying in the name of Jesus, that the Holy Spirit will reveal the truth to Glenn Beck.
all of this is a misrepresentation of LDS doctrine…you have to start with the plan of salvation to understande the church doctrine….which is not only correct but very logical…anything else is an interpretation inspired of the devil…there is so much bogus info on this website it’s such a waste of time…evil! Have you ever read the Ensign magazine or listened at conference? You can’t take words out of context and make any sense…the LDS church doctrines and programs are about love of all mankind and returning back to our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ.
Suzy, blanket accusations don't get very far here. Provide evidence for your accusations and refrain from insults.
Let me see if I understand LDS teaching on exaltation. Exaltation will depend upon the individuals works in obedience to the LDS teachings.
Well if that is true, What would the LDS undestanding of Ephesians 2:1-10 be? Please explain thoroughly everything covered in these passages as it applies to Man, God, Salvation, Sin, Grace, Faith, Works and glorification. If I have left anything out you may add to the words listed.
One last thing I would like you to answer. Is this understanding based on a careful exegesis or eisegesis of the passage?
Explain your answer please.
Thanks
Bill,
What I find interesting about Beck's comments is that he checked with Dr.Richard Land(Southern Baptist) to make sure he had it right."
Now why in the world would he say he checked with someone for their understanding in comparison to his if that was not what he meant. Or was he just trying to be deceptive?
Dear Bill,
This is quite an interesting article about Glenn Beck.
I first heard about Glenn last year. My observations? I have watched Glenn's television program three or four times, and bits and pieces of several others. As I've viewed it, I've noticed something which distinguishes his program from similar programs. He typically brings a fairly strong historical perspective to his topic. As current-event programs often focus on … well, just the current, I have enjoyed Glenn's emphasis on looking at history to inform one's view of the present. I once saw a special he produced: a forum of doctors discussing the health care industry, and their prescription for changes which could improve it. Also, quite informative. Sometimes, Glenn's shows are a little obscure for me, or perhaps a little "out there," or make me feel down. (These do seem like bad times for our country.) I have a lot of respect for Glenn. He seems to have genuine love, and concern, for our country.
Thanks for your description of his latest program about the Christian view of salvation and the view of black liberation theology. I read your description with great interest. I agree with your assessment about him. I think his account of the Christian way of salvation was informed by a careful study of what Christians believe. I don't think he was engaged in doublespeak. It seems like he was describing it as best he could. He also suggested he has adopted a Biblically sound understanding of the work of Jesus Christ; the sufficiency of the Cross for taking away sin and that Heaven is free. Did he understand that this is in conflict with what the prophets of the LDS religion have taught? Perhaps he did. I tend to think he was being quite genuine about what he believes.
Any time one lays down their weapons (gives up on themselves) and looks to God's all-sufficient provision of salvation in Christ, that is a miracle. Perhaps a miracle has happened (or will) to Glenn.