In a move that has surprised Mormons and critics alike, in mid-October the LDS Church’s Newsroom site posted a video that literally looks at Mormonism’s “Sacred Temple Clothing.” Both temple robes (the outer clothing worn by Mormons during a temple endowment ceremony, known as “the robes of the holy priesthood”), and temple garments (worn by endowed Mormons underneath regular clothing), are discussed and displayed.
The video builds a context of various world religions and their uses of religious vestments, gestures, and rituals in which to frame Mormonism’s temple clothing.
“The nun’s habit. The priest’s cassock. The Jewish prayer shawl. The Muslim’s skullcap. The saffron robes of the Buddhist monk. All are part of a rich tapestry of human devotion to God.”
The video suggests another superficial parallel, one between Mormon temple robes and the Bible:
“The simple vestments combine religious symbolism with echoes of antiquity reflected in ancient writings from the book of Exodus.”
The video explains that Mormon temple garments (that are sometimes referred to as “magic underwear”) have “deep religious significance” to Latter-day Saints and represent “the sacred and personal aspect of their relationship with God and their commitment to live good, honorable lives.”
While it is surprising that the Mormon Church posted video footage of temple garments, it is not surprising that it actually said very little about the unique aspects of these garments.
The video states that temple garments are “similar in design to ordinary modest underclothing” yet neglects to mention that Mormon garments are distinct in that they are made with Masonic-like markings sewn into the cloth. In the Church’s video these markings are indistinguishable, but in this photo of women’s temple garments (at right) the sewn-in white markings have been highlighted in red to make them visible for the photo.
The video does not explain this, but the four markings on the temple garment correspond to markings also found on the veil in the temple endowment ceremony. On the garment they are “the mark of the square” (over the right breast), “the mark of the compass” over the left breast, “the navel mark” over the navel, and “the knee mark” over the knee cap of the right leg (the compass, square and level are prominent symbols used in Freemasonry). According to the Church’s Handbook of instructions for bishops and stake presidents, it is these markings that make the temple garment sacred.
The video states, “there is nothing magical or mystical about temple garments,” but avoids any discussion of the “protective” nature of these garments – another attribute that sets temple garments apart from spiritually significant clothing worn in other religions. Mormon assertions of the garments’ supernatural protection have led to the common (but disrespectful) nickname of “magic underwear,” an offensive reference to the sacred clothing that the video hopes to squelch. The official Church Handbook explains that properly worn temple garments protect members from “temptation and evil,” but members themselves believe the garments also protect them from physical harm, freely testifying of times when the garments have saved them from injury and death.
Another aspect of Mormonism’s sacred temple clothing that is unique in the greater context of world religions and their religious vestments is the specificity of official mandates that come with owning and wearing temple garments. The Church Handbook provides these explicit instructions:
Wearing and Caring for the Garment
Church members who have been clothed with the garment in a temple have taken upon themselves a covenant obligation to wear it according to the instructions given in the endowment. When issuing temple recommends, priesthood leaders should teach the importance of wearing the garment properly. Leaders also emphasize the blessings that are related to this sacred privilege. These blessings are conditioned on worthiness and faithfulness in keeping temple covenants.
The garment provides a constant reminder of the covenants made in a temple. When properly worn, it provides protection against temptation and evil. Wearing the garment is also an outward expression of an inward commitment to follow the Savior.
Endowed members should wear the temple garment both day and night. They should not remove it, either entirely or partially, to work in the yard or for other activities that can reasonably be done with the garment worn properly beneath the clothing. Nor should they remove it to lounge around the home in swimwear or immodest clothing. When they must remove the garment, such as for swimming, they should put it back on as soon as possible.
Members should not adjust the garment or wear it contrary to instructions in order to accommodate different styles of clothing. Nor should they alter the garment from its authorized design. When two-piece garments are used, both pieces should always be worn.
The garment is sacred and should be treated with respect at all times. Garments should be kept off the floor. They should also be kept clean and mended. After garments are washed, they should not be hung in public areas to dry. Nor should they be displayed or exposed to the view of people who do not understand their significance.
Members who have made covenants in the temple should be guided by the Holy Spirit to answer for themselves personal questions about wearing the garment…
Disposing of Garments and Temple Ceremonial Clothing
To dispose of worn out temple garments, members should cut out and destroy the marks. Members then cut up the remaining fabric so it cannot be identified as a garment. Once the marks are removed, the fabric is not considered sacred.
To dispose of worn-out temple ceremonial clothing, members should destroy the clothing by cutting it up so the original use cannot be recognized. (LDS Church Handbook of Instructions, Handbook 1, Stake President and Bishops 2010, page 15)
It has been noted on various online forums that the fact that Mormons wear religious clothing is not “weird.” Even the form that this clothing takes (i.e., underwear) is not really noteworthy. But “cultic weirdness” comes into the picture via the fact that if you are an endowed adult Mormon “someone else is telling you what sort of underwear you should be wearing, when you must wear it, how you must wear it, and when you are not worthy enough to wear it. And [then] checking up on whether or not you do as you are told. That’s the cultish part.”
Mormon temple garments (like Mormonism itself) fit comfortably into the very broad and superficial context of spiritual expression of religious devotion. But when we consider what makes Mormon temple garments unique we quickly come to the point where a comfortable fit ends. We discover once again that Mormonism is, in fact, a distinctly peculiar religion.
I notice in your response you mention nothing about the New Testament. Your response has little of real substance, if I can be honest. You also continue to seemingly differentiate the messiah and Jesus. Do you think Jesus was or was not the Messiah? This is the key question, no matter how in depth such a discussion may be. Everything comes out of that very question.
I’ll also say that it still seems your thinking is muddled by Mormon-think. Not only do you say scripture has been added to with man-made doctrine, you seem to have this idea that its all about feeling, or at least primarily about feeling. Be careful with that.
I’ll finish by agreeing with Rick that Christmas is irrelevant. The simple truth is that we do not know when Christ was born with any precision. The winter solstice is as good a time as any to celebrate his birth. We have to choose a day, and this day was chosen for a variety of reasons. What’s the problem with it?
Perhaps Mormons could ask their prophet when Jesus was born. What do you think? Anyway Jesus was born in March. Now you know! Any other difficult questions you’d like me to answer? Like, who were the three people in the Bible whose birth was foretold by an angel?
I admire your steadfastness in study and research. The key will be the conclusions you come to as a result of that study and research. I must admit, the quest you are on in your study has never really tripped my trigger. I know folks who are into what you seem to be articulating. I think it’s pretty harmless and it doesn’t get me too excited unless they cross the line and start contending that those with a different take on the matter are some how in err as to how they practice their Christianity. It’s just a little too dogmatic for me.
But this seems like a winner for you in terms of a structure within which you want to lead your (Christian) life. I enjoy a freedom in Christ which I really like. I know who Jesus is, what He did for me and I’ve accepted it all by faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God.
when I said, if you choose to follow the law, it’s all or nothing, meaning stoning people who dont keep the law. You felt I was wrong. Well I was reading in the gospel of John today.
The religious leaders brought a woman caught in adultery to Jesus and said to HIm, the law given by moses says, she must be stoned. Now I know this was a set up and all, but my point is,Jesus never disputed that and said your wrong. Only God can forgive sin, Jesus is God, He forgave her sin and set her free. But also the law does state, kill the people for failing to keep It.
Also the law was given to Jews, not gentiles. So if a gentiles wanted to follow the law he/she needed to convert to Judaism. In the New testament that is no longer the case, it states their is no longer Jew or gentile.
I decided to do a google search for “Do Christians have to keep the Jewish Law?” What I ended-up with was a whole range of good information regarding this topic. Here’s a sample:
“But the question regarding the Levitical Law’s relevance to Christians was perhaps the most hotly debated issue confronting the first century church. The issue was clearly settled at that time during the first church council in Jerusalem. And yet some Christians today are still unclear as to whether they are obligated to observe the full requirements of the Mosaic Law as delineated in the pages of the Pentateuch, the first five books of the Old Testament.”
“God has not, however, left us without answer regarding this but has in the pages of Scripture outlined for us the express function of His Law and its relationship to the Christian.”
So what the author of this article is basically telling us is this is a topic that was settled 2,000 years ago. It makes me wonder then, why in the world are we still discussing it. Perhaps it’s like the doctrine of the nature of God. It was settled and yet we still have groups that are attempting to redefine what the Church already (defined). I see where “Heart of the Matter” host Shawn McCraney in the past year went off on some nefarious journey regarding this doctrine (on the nature of God).
So people keep revisiting these things even though the Church settled it.
Now something like this (the nature of God) is crucial as is obvious. But Law keeping? It may be entertaining to debate it but does it have any real implications if someone wants to try and keep the Law? I don’t know? Are we frustrating the plan of God for our salvation?
So, “What purpose then does the Law serve?” (Galatians 3:19).
” . . . for if there had been a Law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the Law. But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the Law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the Law was our tutor to bring us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.” (Galatians 3:21–24).
“Therefore by the deeds of the Law no flesh shall be justified in His sight, for by the Law is the knowledge of sin.” And again in Romans 7:7, “I would not have known sin except through the Law.”
Well anyway, in any discussion on this matter we have to clearly define what the poster means by “the Law”. We all have a moral compass who is Christ Jesus Our Lord. Having come to Him in faith we are compelled to live a life that is pleasing to God. The Ten Commandments give a pretty good guideline as to God’s expectations for a believer. Thankfully we do have the Blood of Christ that continually cleanses us from all of our unrighteousness. So when we sin, as is inevitable, God forgives us not on the basis of anything we can do, but on the basis of our faith in Christ Jesus.
I posted a link for cattyjane to check out. It talks about Christians keeping the law or not. Dont know if she looked it over, but I suspect she wont agree. If you feel like the law is better than grace then have at it.
This discussion is pointless because I cannot explain everything in a blog session. The other reason its pointless is because every one of you are content with believing what you want to believe.
You gave those verses, but your not understanding fully what they are talking about.
Really? So the law was given only to the Jews (tribe of Judah)? So all the other 11 tribes of Israel were not at Mt Sinai? What about the Egyptians (foreigners) that were at Mt. Sinai? Where is this word “convert” in the Old Test? Did Ruth have to “convert”? Maybe its in the book of Ruth right?
You are looking at Israel through the eyes of the Pharisee law and not through what God has told us in scripture. You are also bias by what your doctrine teaches.
What does Isaiah 56:3-7 say?
3 Let not the foreigner (gentile) say, who has attached himself to the Lord, “The Lord will keep me apart from His people”
6 As for the fereigners who attach themselves to the Lord, to minister to Him, And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants-all who keep the sabbath and do not profane it, and who hold fast to my covenant- 7 I will bring them to My sacred mount and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices shall be welcome on My altar; for My House shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.
Let me make sure that you saw what was in those passages:
– God is speaking of the relationship to the foreigner (gentile)
– the requirements include, loving the Lord, being his servant, keeping the sabbath (one of the ten), holding fast to His covenant
– if they have attached themselves to the Lord in the manner stated above they can them bring burnt offerings and sacrifices to the altar
-God stated that the Temple (His House) is a House for all peoples
How can a foreigner hold to a covenant that was not made with them? They can if it was given for all people. It was given for all people Rick. There were on two kinds of people then, and only two kinds exist now. Either in covenant with the Lord or out of covenant with the Lord. I know which one I am. You would do well not to keep trying to convince me of things that you clearly do not understand. That post in which you stated the law was only for the Jews made it very clear that you have not studied these things in scripture.
Yea, the Law. I lived under the Catholic form of it years ago and while providing some good moral training, legalism of any kind is not my choice. God shows us through the Law, what our nature is like. The Law cannot change our nature. Our only hope is to be born again and be spiritually regenerated through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. What the Law couldn’t do in the flesh, Christ did by becoming sin for us. Through him the flesh was crucified. Unfortunately, we have to live on in the flesh even though we’ve been reborn spiritually.
So how are we suppose to live then? Paul ask a question that get’s to the heart of the matter. He asks if we should increase our sinning so grace will increase? He then also asks how can we who have died to sin continue to live in it?
People look for a way in which to carry out their lives once they become Christians. I think living in grace and walking by the Spirit, while appearing “easy”, is much more difficult than living under the Law. Why would I think that? I’m of the firm conviction that while people might say different, they really want to be told what to do. They want to know the standards and perimeters.
Take sex for example (now that I have everyone’s attention). What do young Christian kids want to know? Well it’s “How far can we go?” If I suddenly lost my wife and found myself single, I know how far I could go while dating and it wouldn’t be far! It’s because God has written His Law on my heart.
I was talking to a middle-aged divorced Christian woman the other day. She has several young people that she supervises in her work. These young folks were astounded by the fact that this woman and her boyfriend went on a weekend trip and stayed in separate hotel rooms.
She doesn’t have these moral values because someone made a law or rule about it. She chooses this way to live because of her faith in Christ.
For any Mormon lurkers. Have you noticed that our discussion here keeps going back to what the Scriptures say? When there is a question about anything, we Christians go back to the Scriptures. We don’t think that there is a “past due date” stamp on what God has revealed to us in His Word. That’s why we don’t believe in continuous revelation regarding Scripture. What has been delivered once and for all………….as Jude writes. We get enlightened and inspired all the time. God “reveals” to us, through the Holy Spirit, what His Word is telling us.
Depending on modern day prophets without question, is very bad policy. Especially since the track record of Mormon prophets is so dismal.
Im so upset I forgot what else I was going to say.
What did Jesus (Messiah) say was loving the Lord? John 14:17-23 also Matthew 22:37-40
I realize most of you don’t know the ten commandments by heart so Im going to post them in order to show you that Matthew 22 is simply a summary of the ten commandments. Jesus is stating the first four as saying how we love God and the last six as how we are to love our neighbor. Then he states all the law and the prophets hang on these two commandments. The law is the first five books of Moses and the Prophets are Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi, Joshua, Judges, First Samuel, Second Samuel, First Kings, Second Kings, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel. (I also think Daniel should be included in the prophet writings but there is a debate on that one. Some say yes others say no. I say yes.)
The 10 Commandments List in Exodus 20:2-17
“I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
“You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
“Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you.
“You shall not murder.
“You shall not commit adultery.
“You shall not steal.
“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”
1 John 3:7-10 This is how we know who the children of God are (who is in covenant) and who the children of the devil are (who is out of covenant): Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
How do I know how to do what is right and love my brother? Oh ya. The ten commandments tell me.
How was Zechariah (Johns father) and Elizabeth regarded? Luke 1:5-6 Both of them were upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commandments and regulations blamelessly.
God cannot speak evil. His laws are good not evil. They are instruction for us on how we are to live our lives.
I have a lot more scripture but I can see that those of you on here don’t want to hear this. I know that God will reveal Himself you (through scripture, not feel goods or burning in the bosom) when its in His perfect timing. Everything is for a reason.
I think I understand your problem, You stated you dont trust the NT, and when others as I have asked, what are your thoughts on Jesus being the messiah you dodge that question. So the problem is clear, your reject Jesus and the NT. The NT clearly answers all your issues.
But now lets also add this. When the world was first created, it was simply the human race, Jews and gentiles did not exist. Then God took Abram and he was a pagan, yet God made this pagan into the father of the Jewish race. Now we have Jews and Gentiles.
Then when God gave moses the ten commandments, they were not given to the whole world and every single person, they were given to the Jews only. Now when you then say,
Your putting words in my mouth, go back and show me where I said that? When I said Jew’s I was talking about all Jews, not certain tribes. God created the Jewish nation to be a special and chosen people, blessed above all other nations. Along with the ten commandments can both blessing’s and curses for obeying and not obeying. Again, these did not apply to Gentiles.
Now gentiles could say, wow, you God is awesome,I want what you have. Well then they could convert to Judaism and follow God, but otherwise they were not part of Israel. Read in Romans where it talks about the wild olive branch (The Jews) and how we gentiles are grafted in. Read in the Gospels how the Jews did not believe we gentiles could be saved or were even part of Gods greater plan.
Even today in Israel, Many Jews believe the gentiles were only created to fuel the fires of Hell. What thats quite the plan God has for me according to the Jews. The NT also tells us the Law is weak and brings death. The other issue with following the law is, you cannot keep it, no one can, no one has. Jesus even addresses this issue. Then as I keep saying, you cannot pick and choose what you want in the law, either follow it in full, that means stoning those who break it, or dont follow it at all.
Now I also do as other Christians do, follow Gods law, but as I said before, Jesus summed it up in 2 things, Love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor. If I really love God and love my neighbor, I wont lie, cheat, steal, murder, Etc. I dont need a check list that I review daily and check off what I did and did not do, then for the area’s I failed, I would need to sacrifice animals. Sadly I cannot do that either since we dont have a temple to do it in.
I have a comment in moderation right now that will show that I do trust the NT. So after you read that and have the chance to respond than I will reply to your comment.
cattyjane, What are you offering us ? You’ve come a long way from your Mormon mindset, and
you are studying God’s Word to replace the false doctrines of Mormon prophets . That’s great .
I know it takes a good amount of time for many former Mormons to come to realize the truth
about God , but especially about salvation through Jesus which the New Testament reveals .
So keep reading God’s Word , we’re praying for you .
We can’t help but direct you to Jesus , the Messiah . All discussions about the O.T. will sooner or
later come around to Him , that’s why we are Christians . We’ve found our Savior . Jn 4:26 ; 12:32.
You can fall into the trap of continually amassing information about God yet miss something grand
in the process — Jn 5: 39-40 . That “something “is actually “someone ” in this case , it’s the
person of Jesus Christ . Have you met Him ? He was speaking to the Jewish people and all
sinners when He asks ” Come unto Me ” Matt 11:28 . In Jesus theO.T. sin question was answered–
Heb 10:1-15 ; 1Jn 2:2 , in Jesus the “way” for sinners to approach God was settled — 1 Tim 2:5 ;
Heb 8:6 . For Christians down through the centuries their hope has been in Jesus — Titus 2:13 .
So what are you offering us ? A Jewish religious system ? We can talk about the O.T. all day but
sooner or later Jesus will show up . We offer you the complete package in the Bible : God’s
dealings with mankind since Adam , and His sending His Son to deliver sinful man from sin’s
awful penalty . It’s about Jesus for us , a personal encounter with Him on bended knees .
One day , if you will read the Bible , you’ll come to discover how beautiful and Majestic He really is , and how personal He can be .
Praying for you .
You know what folks?
After reading all of these posts and the back-and-forth what I think is needed is a modern day prophet who can set all of this straight. What do you all think of that?
But anyway……………………..do Christian men need to be circumcised? That’s what the controversy was when Paul and Barnabas went up to Jerusalem to inquire of the apostles. The apostles said the gentile converts to Christianity didn’t have to be circumcised so that’s at least one exception to the rule of the Law. That was the sign of the Old Covenant wasn’t it? So are Christians in the Old Covenant? Just a couple of thoughts.
Now about that modern day prophet who can straighten all of this out……………………………………
Falcon, the prophets of Mormonism have a track record whereby their ” gospel preaching” can be
examined . The verdict : these men who claim to be ” modern day ” apostles have exhibited a
pattern , a pattern of unstable teachings , they have not been consistently reliable as guides .
Concerning the Old Testament . Joseph Smith felt that he was called to restore all the truths that
were necessary to embrace for the last days . He proceeded to pick from the O.T. what he felt were
these truths and add them to what Jesus’ apostles preached etc .
His sudden death prevented him from revealing more of these “truths ” so those mentored by him ,
like Brigham Young , carried on the work . Thus we see polgamy ; Black skin / curse ; man made
temple rituals ; etc. appear in Mormon teachings . These are the resulting array of doctrines we
get from Mormonism’s leaders , but they are only identifying themselves as those of whom Jesus
warned would come in the latter days — Mark 13:22-23 . The apostle Paul also has alerted all those today who are concerned about being fooled by counterfeit prophets with their imitation
gospels — Gal 1:8 .
Our hearts hurt for the Mormon people .
Well , that post turned out rather scattered . At any rate , the sentence in my post above :
” Thus we see polygamy ; Black skin / curse ; man made temple rituals etc appear in Mormon
teachings ” should have had the words , ” more information on ” inserted just before the word
Catty, I’ll keep this short and sweet, but make two points:
1) As long as someone recognizes Jesus as their sole savior, apart from the law, all is well, no matter how strictly they follow the law. I have said this before, and I believe that true with all my heart.
2) Just because one person relies on a strict observance of law does not mean they must require others to adhere to the law in the same way that person adheres to it.
Remember, Jesus is source of all salvation, not the law, and as long as we rest in Jesus, all is well. We can have different opinions on various aspects of Christianity. We cannot differ on who Jesus was/is. This is why I, personally, push you on that topic. And I urge you to be careful about accusing us of only seeing what we want to see when the very same argument can be levied against you. We are not enemies in this discussion.
OK according to the NT, men do not have to be circumcised, right?
Acts 15:19-20 says that, “Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the gentiles, but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.”
That was pretty much it. The whole controversy was regarding if the gentile converts to Christ had to live like Jews. The answer was no. Now it’s obvious that Christians are to live moral upstanding lives. That’s reasonable since God is holy and would like us to pursue righteous living. But it seems pretty clear that we aren’t required to obey, what is it, something like 600+ laws. We aren’t Christian Jews. I would think that the NT would lay it out pretty precisely if we were to be Christian Jews. But it’s actually quite the opposite. There’s nothing in the NT or in the tradition of the Christian church to suggest that Christians are to observe the OT Jewish Law.
WOW! This discussion has certainly gone far afield, or has it?
I’d say probably not because the article is about the Mormon requirement to wear a prescribed undergarment with particular (we’d say occult) symbols on them. This garment wearing is part of the larger universe of things that Mormons must do in order to achieve the brass ring of becoming a god. There is temple work and the Word of Wisdom also that Mormons must follow in order to reach that the end goal, godhood!
So are all of the temple rituals supposedly a rip-off of the Jewish temples? We know that these observances have nothing to do with first century Christianity since Christians didn’t have temples, temple rituals or prescribed undergarments that they had to wear. Well, we also know that the Jews didn’t perform any of these Mormon rituals in the temple either. What we’re dealing with is a make-believe religion that was created by a guy who claimed he was a prophet hearing from God. We also know that this religion has been a slow roll-out over the years zigging and zagging here and there with every wind of change the leadership imposed on the membership.
Anyway, our foray into Christianity and what Jewish Laws and customs (Christians) need to observe is also very instructive. The whole point of the coming of the Messiah was to announce a New Covenant. It wasn’t like the Old Covenant because that one didn’t have the essential elements of the new. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice. We don’t offer sacrifices any more nor do we have temples. We are the temples of the Holy Spirit. We have been justified through faith in Christ. As such, we do not observe the Old Covenant. We embrace Jesus as the fulfillment of the Old and the ushering in of the New.
keeping the law is a form of work with all that is involved and all that you must do. So here is what Jesus said to the religious leaders when they asked Him, what Work(S) we must do. Notice they asked Him about work(s), that being plural, more than one work.
Read all of Matthew chapter 23, Jesus Harshly rebukes the leaders for what they do, trying to put heavy burdens upon people and acting as if they are doing the works of God, yet it is more for looks.
When you mention John chapter 14, thats not saying keep all the OT laws as you are trying to say, then when you mention Matthew 22, I have stated that to you more than once. I said, all the laws are summed up in those two, so If I love God and love my neighbor, I wont want to lie, cheat steal commit murder, Etc. And as a result of keeping and doing those two, I dont need a check list marking off what I did or did not do everyday, and if I fail to do any of them, I dont need to go to the temple and pay money and sacrifice an offering. I simply need to confess my sin and ask for forgiveness as 1st John 1:9 teaches. 1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Now when you mention the prophets and list all their names, thats great, I read the Boks of the prophets as I read the OT, But here is what Hebrews has to say,
God spoke to us in the old days through the prophets, but now He speaks to us through His Son, Jesus.
Now when you said this
I agree to a point, I dont agree with the covenant part, we are no longer under the law, Here is what the Bible says,
THE LAW IS WEAK.
The strength of SIN is the LAW
The law is a curse
Lastly you said
Well what did everyone do before the Law was Given?
O-yea, It was written upon our hearts since God was among us and told us how to live before any law was ever given and it was His purpose to write it upon our hearts, not paper in the form of laws.
I can either Believe and confess and be saved, or I can try and keep the law, fail to do it and live under the curse of the law.
When Paul said this, he was not referring to the NT as it was not written yet.
Then I already told you this, that their is no longer Jew and Gentile.
Many Jews believe us Gentiles cannot be saved, But how is that possible if their is no longer Jew and Gentile and Paul says this,
Now Falcon mentioned this,
Jews trying to put us under the law saying we cannot be saved unless we get circumcised, yet go back and read what I posted by Paul.
OK……………………it’s probably because of my advancing years so if I repeat myself, please have patience.
We have the Old Covenant and we have the New Covenant. Jesus said that this is the New Covenant in my blood. Where did Jesus get the notion of a New Covenant?
Try Jeremiah 31:31-34.
“Behold, days are coming”, declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them, and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people”.
I think it’s sort of sad given everything Jesus went through in winning our salvation and putting us under the New Covenant that folks want to put themselves under the Old Covenant.
Salvation is faith plus nothing. We no longer walk by the letter of the Law, but by the Spirit of God. God’s Law is written on our hearts.
I’m going with what God has declared.
this video describing why Mormons wear underwear garments as being sacred is a typical production designed for the public , which means there is little chance that it will tell the whole truth . That is just the way Mormon P.R. Dept roles .
According to the video , that Mormons wear temple garments is not odd because it’s part of a “rich tapestry of human devotion to God .” That statement seems rather strange given the fact that all those other religions engage in misguided , false , devotion to God , they are all part of what constitutes the church of the Devil in these last days according to Mormonism ( 1 Nephi 14 ) .
the good news is that being reconciled to God , receiving the gift of eternal life from Him , entering into a personal type relationship with Him , all comes together when sinners come to His Son , the Lord Jesus Christ . Secret temple rituals are not Jesus endorsed , neither are the undergarments connected to them required to gain God’s approval for one’s life here and a place in God’s home above when we die . The Mormon people experience a feeling of being closer to God because they wear these under garments ? If that is the case then they’ve been drawn into a situation that can be spiritually manipulative . May they read the New Testament and see what Jesus apostles taught, as the Bible is the bedrock of Christianity . Safety from being spiritually detoured through emotions fostered by the teachings of prophets these days can be greatly averted by a study of the New Testament .
apologies for the typo in the first sentence of my last post . I do not believe Mormons are morons .
[I fixed it for you, Mike. -Sharon]
MJP and MikeR,
I do believe that Jesus was the promised Messiah. I didn’t for a very long time. I figured that it was just some made up stuff just like the book of mormon. I have told you that I thought Joseph Smiths visions and Pauls visions were similar. I don’t have much more to say than that. Its a process.
cattyjane, thanks for the reply .
My prayer for you is that you will soon go from knowing who Jesus was , to knowing Him
personally , and that can start by calling upon Him ( Matt 11:28 ; Rom 10:13 ) . He is alive
and wants to hear from you and be a part of your life .
Take care .
Thank you Sharon .
Catty, I am glad to hear that. Jesus is the Messiah, and I have no doubt you are going in the right direction here. I just find that point the crux of Christianity: the identity of Jesus. I do believe there is room for disagreement within Christianity such that not all disagreements disqualify certain styles of belief, or different beliefs at all. However, who one defines Christ affects the identity of God, the Holy Spirit, and even us. The identity of Christ affects how we approach him and what we do to warrant his Good grace. And that identity cannot be compromised. If one incorrectly identifies Jesus, by definition one cannot be saved.
Mormons identify a different Christ, a different Messiah, which leads them down a path to destruction. I know your path outside of Mormonism has been in some ways difficult and not linear. Going from a legalistic framework based on myths to a system of full grace will not be easy. A system that, among many, requires the wearing of special underwear that provides some level of spiritual protection is wholly different from one where Christ is our protection fully.
I happen to be one who believes that if someone fully, 100% follows the Judaic law, sacrifices and all, that person may be saved and clean in the eyes of God. However, that task is impossible, hence our need for a savior, who upon our belief in Him, fulfills the cleaning power of the law. When we are in Him, we do the things the law was intended for us to do. The 10 Commandments come naturally, for instance, when we are in Christ, who gave the greatest commandment as loving our neighbor. We won’t get jealous. We won’t lust. We will respect our parents. We will tell the truth, and on we go through the remaining 6 commandments.
I also have no problem with people who need structure to keep focus, as long as belief is in Christ and not in the structure itself. Knowing Jesus is there for us no matter what should trump the legal structure, which should exist only to help one’s peace of mind. This part of the discussion gets into what is commonly described as weak vs. strong Christians, which describes tolerance for living apart from the structure. Example: drinking wine with dinner.
I asked this question on Nov. 7 and i don’t think i got a response: Chiam says:
November 7, 2014 at 12:23 pm
Does the Mormon church teach that a person must go through the temple ceremony and wear the undergarments in order to be in the very presence of God or in their view the highest level of heaven?
I found my answer: D & C 131
2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];
3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.
So, in order to be in the very presence of God in the highest degree you have to be married in Mormon temple and wear the sacred garments… No single person is getting in. No one who doesn’t wear the garments… I think the Mormon church should have commercials telling everyone about those sacred garments!
Chiam, sorry we missed your question . According to current Mormon doctrine a person does have to be married in the temple , and after doing that they must then live a life after being married there where they prove themselves worthy by keeping the other requirements of the Mormon gospel the rest of their lives . That is how they earn eternal life in the highest heaven and live as Almighty Gods there with their Goddess wife(s) producing children . That’s it in a nutshell .
definitely a case of Gal 1:8