Mormon doctrines are “just the same”?

Posted on July 22, 2013 by Sharon Lindbloom

Previously Aaron wrote about the current trend in Mormonism wherein Mormons tell Christians that Mormon beliefs are just the same as theirs – Mormon doctrines are the same as [fill-in-the-Christian-denomination] doctrines. I want to expand on a bit of what Aaron wrote, and add to it.

Camp MeetingMormonism claims that in 1820 all Christian denominations were fighting against each other, not only for converts, but for their unique versions of spiritual truth. According to Joseph Smith,

“…so great were the confusion and strife among the different denominations, that it was impossible for a person young as I was, and so unacquainted with men and things, to come to any certain conclusion who was right and who was wrong. My mind at times was greatly excited, the cry and tumult were so great and incessant. The Presbyterians were most decided against the Baptists and Methodists, and used all the powers of both reason and sophistry to prove their errors, or, at least, to make the people think they were in error. On the other hand, the Baptists and Methodists in their turn were equally zealous in endeavoring to establish their own tenets and disprove all others. In the midst of this war of words and tumult of opinions, I often said to myself: What is to be done? Who of all these parties are right; or, are they all wrong together?” (Joseph Smith—History 1:8-10)

If every Christian denomination advocates for disparate doctrines, as Joseph Smith said, how can Mormon doctrines be the same as all of them?

When Joseph Smith inquired of God to know which church was right, he claims he was told that the creeds and doctrines of these churches were all wrong (Joseph Smith—History 1:19) – if Mormonism’s doctrines are just the same as these other churches, then reason dictates that Mormonism’s doctrines must also be all wrong – right?

At General Conference in April 2006 President James Faust quoted Apostle Dallin Oaks,

“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has many beliefs in common with other Christian churches. But we have differences, and those differences explain why we send missionaries to other Christians” (“The Restoration of All Things,” Ensign, May 2006, 61)

How can these beliefs be different but the same?

Larry Dahl, then Associate Dean of Religious Education at BYU explained,

“Truly the bright light of the Restoration, bursting forth from the time of the Prophet Joseph Smith, makes clear the fundamental, eternal principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ. That light, revealed through the Prophet, replaced doctrinal shadows and clouds of error the world had inherited as a result of the great Apostasy nearly 2,000 years ago.” (Ensign, “The Morning Breaks, the Shadows Flee,” Ensign, April 1997, 12)

Apostle Boyd K. Packer expressed a similar idea during the commemoration of the 175th anniversary of the priesthood restoration in 2004. As reported by Church News,

“The [Mormon] Church is not merely an adjustment or correction of what had become Christianity following the Apostasy, President Packer said. “It is a replacement, a restoration of organization and authority to what had been when Christ established it.” (Church News, 5/22/04, 4)

If the “bright light of the Restoration” replaced the “doctrinal shadows and clouds of error” that non-Mormons believe — if Mormonism is a replacement of traditional Christianity — how can Mormon beliefs be the same as those in apostate Christianity?

In fact, in 2007 President Faust told a gathering of mission presidents and their wives,

“Our message is distinctly different because it contains the gospel restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith.” (Church News, 6/30/07, 5)

President Gordon B. Hinckley also explained that there are “many things of a doctrinal nature that distinguish this Church from all others” (Church News, 8/6/05, 2). Indeed, while encouraging Mormons to maintain their self-identification as Christians, Mr. Hinckley clarified,

“Now we may not be Christian by the standards of the world. In fact, we are not Christians by the standard under which they are Christian. If we were, there would have been no need for a restoration of the gospel. The restoration of the gospel occurred to correct all the mistakes of the past.” (Church News, 5/23/98, 5)

Members of the Mormon Church may be more comfortable telling Christians that Mormon beliefs are the same as their beliefs, but to say that is to be disloyal to the consistent teachings of Mormon leaders from Joseph Smith to current Mormon apostles, and to disdain the whole reason for The Restoration. The teachings of Mormonism are necessarily different from those of the allegedly apostate Christian world. Mormons, Christians invite you to gird up your loins and respectfully engage in the debate. Why? Because as Aaron said, “Truth matters. Life matters. Jesus matters.”

Posted in Friendship, Interaction, and Evangelism, LDS Church, Misconceptions, Mormon Culture, Truth, Honesty, Prayer, and Inquiry | Tagged , , , , , , | 202 Comments

“We believe the same thing.”

Posted on July 18, 2013 by Aaron Shafovaloff

“We believe the same thing.”

They why the need for a restoration?

“We believe the same thing.”

Then why did you just tell me you believed the exact opposite thing?

“We believe the same thing.”

How you can be sure, if you haven’t even asked me about what I believe?

“We believe the same thing.”

Since I said we don’t, aren’t you in the least bit curious about why I think we don’t?

“We believe the same thing.”

Then why does Jeffrey Holland say we don’t in General Conference?

“We believe the same thing.”

Then why call my creeds an abomination?

“We believe the same thing.”

Then what is so significant about the First Vision?

“We believe the same thing.”

Then why send missionaries to me?

“We believe the same thing.”

Then what’s the big deal about the Great Apostasy?

“We believe the same thing.”

Then why don’t you attend a local evangelical Christian church?

“We believe the same thing.”

Then why are you so afraid to take a tract?

“We believe the same thing.”

No, I’m sorry, we don’t believe the same thing. We should have a neighborly conversation about the things we believe that aren’t the same. Why?

Truth matters. Life matters. Jesus matters.

Too much for lazily glossing over eternal differences.

Posted in Uncategorized | 65 Comments

Evangelism to Mormons

Posted on July 15, 2013 by Aaron Shafovaloff

Posted in Uncategorized | 113 Comments

Cracks in the Mormon Dam

Posted on July 11, 2013 by Aaron Shafovaloff

(Starts at about 8m45s)

Cracks in the Mormon Dam. Some water already beginning to gush.

Atheist LDS current mission presidents. Unbelieving return-MP’s. Doubting General Authorities. A General Authority that stops BYU’s NAMIR/FARMS from publishing a piece against the agnostic-in-longtime-LDS-sheeps-clothing John Dehlin. Daniel Peterson fired and FARMS abandoning unabashed apologetics. Mormonism’s greatest expert on the Book of Abraham, John Gee, says the LDS Church doesn’t stand or fall on the Book of Abraham, and has offered no credible apologetic for the fraud. Extremely few identifiable up-and-coming LDS apologists, and even most of those seem to have liberalized their Mormonism. LDS philosophers abandoning traditional LDS beliefs. LDS theologians and authors embarrassed by the teachings of their own apostles and prophets.

Palmer claims that approximately 45% of return-LDS-missionaries no longer have a temple recommend within five years of returning. Speaking of the unbelief going upstream, Palmer says, “I think it’s beginning to penetrate the upper echelons of the Church.” Lest we jump ahead of ourselves, he says, “And I emphasize ‘beginning.'”

He even says, “I know at least 10 LDS Seminary and Institute teachers who think like I do.”

“I had a daughter and her husband and their two boys leave the Church two months ago. And the answer that they got is, well, ‘Even if it’s false, stay anyway.'” This is what I call, “Practical Mormon atheism.”

Mormonism is atrophying. “It’s like a balloon in the corner that you walk by every three days, and it’s getting less vibrant…”

More and more falling out of the LDS nest. Will they land on Jesus? Or will they go from Mormon atheism (yes, I said Mormon atheism) to secular atheism or pagan atheism, etc.?

Some fellow evangelicals have argued that this state of affairs call for a retreat — that we ought to stop critically engaging Mormonism and treat Mormons in general as transitioners. That we ought to simply encourage Mormonism to gradually, not definitively, mainstream into evangelicalism, even without integrity, even enjoying the delusion that Mormonism has always been evangelical at its core.

I say: Welcome, encourage, teach the transitioners as transitioners, and be aware of the shifts taking place, but don’t prematurely put up the banner. Increase the pressure of critically engaging Mormonism. Increase the maturity and depth of our intellectual critique of Mormonism. Increase the spread of knowledge of “unauthorized” LDS history. Increase the clear delineation between traditional Mormonism and Christianity. And increase the demand that persons of influence in Mormonism take their non-traditional positions with open and honest integrity (not whitewashing them as mere changes of “emphasis”, or as mere re-articulations of traditional positions). All the while gently encouraging Mormons, at an individual level, to consider the Jesus and the gospel of the Bible, to visit a local Christian church, and to take what is good with them as migrants to a new religious territory, but to definitively “jump ship.”

Posted in Uncategorized | 60 Comments

On Mockery and Mormonism

Posted on July 8, 2013 by Aaron Shafovaloff

To my son John Caleb and daughter Lydia, I “mock” the earth in showing just how small it is compared to the wider universe, which is itself small compared to the “bigness” and beauty and power and ultimacy of God himself. This isn’t to deny the inherent beauty and largeness of the earth, or the universe, or to deny that God himself did not give the earth its beauty, but it is to put things in context.

Listen to God himself mock idolatry in Isaiah 44:12-17:

“The ironsmith takes a cutting tool and works it over the coals. He fashions it with hammers and works it with his strong arm. He becomes hungry, and his strength fails; he drinks no water and is faint. The carpenter stretches a line; he marks it out with a pencil. He shapes it with planes and marks it with a compass. He shapes it into the figure of a man, with the beauty of a man, to dwell in a house. He cuts down cedars, or he chooses a cypress tree or an oak and lets it grow strong among the trees of the forest. He plants a cedar and the rain nourishes it. Then it becomes fuel for a man. He takes a part of it and warms himself; he kindles a fire and bakes bread. Also he makes a god and worships it; he makes it an idol and falls down before it. Half of it he burns in the fire. Over the half he eats meat; he roasts it and is satisfied. Also he warms himself and says, “Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire!” And the rest of it he makes into a god, his idol, and falls down to it and worships it. He prays to it and says, “Deliver me, for you are my god!”

This passage sits within a large context of serious courtroom drama. God has called all the witnesses of the nations to testify of their gods, and he triumphs over them in boasting of how great he is compared to them. He alone is the true God. He alone is the Most High. And in this flow, God, before the witnesses of these nations, even employs mockery. If we condemn such mockery, I think we are taking ourselves too seriously.

Humor seems necessary, even mandatory, for the Christian life, inasmuch as it means not taking ourselves too seriously: God is big, and we are little compared to God’s bigness. Complaining about the scuffs on our new iPhones deserves mockery. Life is short, heaven is forever. Losing this perspective, we become like Pharisees. We make the big things small, and the small things big. Christian humor helps us put these things back into perspective. A holy mockery, satire, ridicule of the absurdity of sin, seems fitting for people who love what is most lovely.

I “mock” Joseph Smith’s re-rendering of Romans 4:5 — after all, the whole context of Romans 3-4 is about God’s grace in light of the ungodliness of humanity. Smith didn’t merely botch it, he royally screwed it up, turning the meaning on its head. When we read the JST of Romans 4:5 — “But to him that seeketh not to be justified by the law of works, but believeth on him who justifieth not the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” — we should drop our jaws. We should be aghast. We should lose our breath in dismay. And then smile, and laugh! WHAT?! He did THAT?! What scorn we have for such an abuse of the text! What derision we have for a such an awful and tragic and horrific perversion of the text! Why have this attitude? Because we love the gospel! Because we love the truth! Because we love Romans!

It seems to me the main issue behind the ethics of “mockery” is whether it comes out of a deep love for what is good, true, and beautiful. If I love God and the gospel and the Mormon people, I ought to think belittling thoughts and, ultimately, have a condescending attitude toward the LDS temple. Why? Because we know just how supreme Jesus is in his fulfillment of the temple! Because we know just how silly it is to say that the LDS temple is an authentic restoration of what went on in Solomon’s temple! If my mockery of the LDS temple comes, however, out of a belittling of the dignity, value, and beauty of the LDS people, out of a lack of love for their well-being, out of a bitter contempt for the individuals, made in the image of God, then that is a whole different matter.

Posted in Truth, Honesty, Prayer, and Inquiry | Tagged , , | 31 Comments

The “Prime Cause” of 1838 Mormon Troubles in Missouri

Posted on July 4, 2013 by Sharon Lindbloom

rigdon38bListen to this edition of Viewpoint on Mormonism as Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson discuss a lesser-known event from Mormon history: Sidney Rigdon’s 1838 July 4th speech. Brigham Young claimed this speech “was the prime cause of [Mormon] troubles in Missouri” (Times and Seasons, 5:667).

Viewpoint on Mormonism: Sidney Rigdon’s July 4th Oration
(Audio, 14 minutes)

Posted in Early Mormonism, Mormon History | Tagged , , , , , | 9 Comments

The Robust Growth of Mormonism

Posted on July 1, 2013 by Sharon Lindbloom

Mormon TempleAfter the Mormon Church released its membership statistics in April (2013), Mike at RoundelMike.com, a self-proclaimed “stats geek,” analyzed the church’s self-reported membership data from 1970 to the present. Replete with charts and graphs, it is a fascinating look at Mormon Church growth over these 40-plus years. Please take the time to read Mike’s report if you can. For those who choose not to, here is a brief summary of what his report includes.

Mike first graphed total membership, noting that there has been strong growth over the years. “The LDS Church grew from about 3 million members in 1970 to about 15 million in 2012, which means it grew five times larger in a little more than 40 years,” Mike wrote.

Next Mike graphed the year-over-year change in membership. This is the number of members added each year. The graph shows that Mormon Church is adding an increasing number of new members every year (i.e., each year the number of new members is higher than the number of new members recorded the previous year). Mike wrote, “There’s still an upward trend in year-over-year change in membership since 1970, but there’s also a notable downward trend since the peak in the early 1990s.”

Next Mike graphed “the percentage of year-over-year change in membership compared to the total number of members, which is effectively the church rate of growth.” While the growth rate has been slowing, Mike noted, “at the current growth rate, each year a (slightly) larger percentage of the world’s population belongs to the LDS Church.”

The next graph is total yearly convert baptisms (without considering retention information). “Since 1990 the trend has generally tapered downward with an obvious low spot in the mid-2000s.  It has somewhat recovered in the past few years, but the current number of annual baptisms still falls short of the rates seen during the 1990s,” Mike explained.

A graph showing the annual convert baptisms as a percentage of the total demonstrates a “definite downward trend.” This means that each year a smaller percentage of Mormons are recent converts. Mike wrote, “Over time, new converts are becoming rarer in the Mormon church.  In 1980 nearly 1/5 of all members had been baptized within the previous five years.  By 1990 the number had fallen to about 1/6, and in 2012 fewer than 1/10 of members had been baptized within the past five years.  The opposite is true too; more than 90% of all current LDS church members have been Mormon for over five years (92.3%).”

Mike included a couple of graphs dealing with children of record and 8-year-old baptisms, but the church’s reporting of those statistics has been inconsistent so it’s hard to understand what the numbers mean.

Finally, Mike graphed “Statistical Anomalies” he found in the data. He found that many years had significant discrepancies between the reported sub-totals as compared to the reported totals in church growth.  “To break down this yearly 100% [i.e., total church membership growth], we’ll take the percentage of the growth that’s due to convert baptisms, 8-year-olds baptized, and the total of the two.  Together each year, the two statistics should add up to about 100%, allowing some wiggle room for members who have died or left.  However, these totals shouldn’t be too far from 100% because, well, you can’t convert more than 100% of the members added and you can’t add members that you don’t baptize.” Some years tens of thousands of members were unaccounted for as in 1973 when the church reported an increase of 87,750 members while also reporting 80,128 new converts and 52,789 children baptized. Some years the discrepancy went the other way, as in 1989, “when the total number of baptisms falls short of the Mormon church membership increase for that year.  The LDS church shows a membership increase of 587,234 in 1989, but there were only 318,940 convert baptisms and 75,000 8-year-old baptisms, meaning that 193,294 members were added to the membership total that weren’t baptized.”

Mike wrote, “It’s anyone’s guess as to what’s going on.” But one thing is clear: though the trend is slowing, the Mormon Church continues to experience “robust” growth according to its self-reported statistics (which do not differentiate between active and inactive members). This doesn’t mean, as many Mormons like to think, that the Mormon Church is “the only true and living church upon the face to the whole earth” with which God is “well-pleased” (D&C 1:30). Rather, it is a call for those who belong to Jesus to continue to “fight the good fight of faith,” “guard the deposit entrusted to you,” and patiently correct those in opposition to God’s truth (1 Timothy 6:12, 20; 2 Timothy 2: 24-25). It is a call for us to stay on our knees, pleading with God for His mercy toward the Mormon people, that 2 Timothy 2:25-26 may become their story.

May it be so, Lord Jesus.

Posted in Friendship, Interaction, and Evangelism, LDS Church | Tagged , , , | 59 Comments

The Untold Story of the Death of Joseph Smith

Posted on June 27, 2013 by Sharon Lindbloom

Bill McKeever explains the issues and events, the rumors and facts, that led to the death of Joseph Smith on June 27, 1844.

Posted in Joseph Smith | Tagged , , | 52 Comments

Sects, and Religions, and Cults! Oh My!

Posted on June 24, 2013 by Sharon Lindbloom

Over at Real Clear Religion author Douglas Wilson wrote about distinguishing between sects, cults and religions. He began,

“Classification is always a dicey business, and especially if it is classification that brings with it some sort of implicit praise or blame. And if that praise and blame is connected in any significant way to eternity and the afterlife, then the task of classification is like that red wire/green wire moment in the movies. One false move, and it is farewell to your eyebrows.”

Dorothy_Oh_MyConsidering the importance of careful discernment in these classifications, Mr. Wilson made these broad distinctions:

“Within Christendom, a sect would be a group that is basically orthodox, but they usually keep to themselves, fearing the spread of ecumenical cooties. They tend toward rigorism, like the early Donatists, but other than having their sandals strapped on too tight, they are generally orthodox at the center. A cult is a group that is isolated and small, keeping to themselves just like a sect does, but with radically heretical notions at the center.”

Time, he said, can result in the change of one thing into another. That is, something that starts out as a sect might morph into a cult (e.g., People’s Temple). Something that starts out as a cult might grow into a religion (e.g., Mormonism). Mr. Wilson wrote,

“I would want to regard Mormonism as a particular religion, not a cult, simply on the basis of age and size. It is a religion that hived off from orthodox Christianity, but of course, that is also what Islam did — Christian heresies can veer off into cul de sac cults, or they can grow big and become regular religions, like Islam, Marxism, and American Idol.”

Becoming recognized as a religion rather than a cult “does call forth more respect,” Mr. Wilson wrote, but it also has a down side. He noted,

“Now a religion can be every bit as wrong about the world as a cult is, and being widely accepted just puts it in a position to do a lot more damage, and doing a lot more damage is not an upgrade.”

This reminds me of an exchange I once heard about between a mom and her rebellious teen-aged daughter. The daughter, having found herself in some trouble in the past, wanted to do several other things that her mother deemed unwise (and perhaps dangerous). When the mom would not grant permission, the daughter yelled, “Just wait until I’m 18! I can do anything I want once I turn 18!” The mom replied, “All 18 gets you is the right to be tried as an adult.”

It’s same idea with Mormonism. Being “upgraded” to a religion just gets Mormonism the “right” to be scrutinized (and criticized) by a wider audience. That is, it has a greater accountability before men — and God. Being in a position to do “a lot more damage” should be sobering to Mormon leaders as they call people to follow a “different Jesus Christ.”

Defining the differences between sects, cults and religions may seem to some like nothing more than the billowing smoke and frantic hand-waving Dorothy encountered in Oz. Nevertheless, the labels we use do prove helpful as we try to sort through the truth claims promoted in the world in which we live.  Yet in the end, the classification that really matters is whether we are numbered among the sheep or the goats (Matthew 25:32). “Who do you say that I am?” Jesus asks (Matthew 16:15). The answer to His question makes all the difference in the world to come.

Posted in Afterlife, Jesus Christ | Tagged , , , , | 62 Comments

Don’t patronize us, please

Posted on June 20, 2013 by Eric Johnson

In a 2007 General Conference talk, Seventy Gary J. Coleman referred to a story of fourteen-year-old Cortnee, the daughter of an LDS mission president, who was confused when her high school classmates questioned her Christianity. She went home and asked her mother, “Mom, are we Christians?” Coleman answered,

“As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, you are a Christian, and I am too. I am a devout Christian who is exceedingly fortunate to have greater knowledge of the true ‘doctrine of Christ’ since my conversion to the restored Church. These truths define this Church as having the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ, I now understand the true nature of the Godhead, I have access to additional scripture and revelation, and I can partake of the blessings of priesthood authority. Yes, Cortnee, we are Christians.”

The very foundation of Mormonism is based on the effects of the “Great Apostasy” and the belief for a need in a “restoration” of Christianity. In an April 2013 General Conference address, Apostle Dallin H. Oaks gave a talk titled “Followers of Christ.” He explained,

“Like all other Christians, members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints study the life of our Savior as reported in the New Testament books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. I will review examples and teachings contained in these four books of the Holy Bible and invite each of us and all other Christians to consider how this restored Church and each of us qualify as followers of Christ” (Ensign, May 2013, p. 96).

He says that “like other followers of Christ, we sometimes find it difficult to separate ourselves from the world and its traditions.” On the next page, he writes, “Like other Christians, we pray in all our worship services.”

warning-mass-confusion-aheadPerhaps he didn’t mean it, but I believe his blurring the lines patronize “other Christians.” After all, he makes it appear that the Mormons and other Christians are somehow similar in their claims to truth.  Yet the context of the article shows what it means to be a true “follower of Christ.” Consider several of the traits that he provides:

  • “Jesus taught that baptism was necessary to enter the kingdom of God”—However, the idea of baptismal regeneration (water baptism necessary for salvation) is rejected by Evangelical Christians. In addition, Oaks makes no mention how Mormonism teaches that this rite must be performed with the proper authority (via the Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods); any baptisms performed by “other Christians” are not efficacious in the eyes of Latter-day Saints.
  •  “Jesus gave commandments”—Obeying these commandments are necessary for eternal life (exaltation). Oaks explains, “They range all the way from worldly practices like political correctness and extremes in dress and grooming to deviations from basic values like the eternal nature and function of the family.” Regarding that last point, those outside the church do not have access to everything a Mormon has, including the 1995 talk given by then-President Gordon B. Hinckley called “The Family: A Proclamation to the World.” In addition, “other Christians” also do not have the Word of Wisdom or have an understanding of or access to the temple and the ordinances performed there. In other words, only those inside the church can truly know what must be done to be fully obedient.
  • “Jesus taught that ‘men ought always to pray.’” If prayer is to “our Father in Heaven”—different in image than the God worshipped by other Christians—then how can the prayers of these “other Christians” be given with authority?
  • “The Savior called Twelve Apostles to assist in His Church and gave them the keys and authority to carry on after His death.” Oaks explains how the Mormon Church “follows this example in its organization and in its conferral of keys and authority on Apostles.” In other words, every “other Christian” organization does not have this structure, which means they do not have the “keys and authority to carry on after His death.”
  • “Jesus taught, ‘Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.’” Oaks explains, “From modern revelation, unique to the restored gospel, we know that the commandment to seek perfection is part of God the Father’s plan for the salvation of His children.” Yet while good works are crucial in the sanctification process, Evangelical Christians do not interpret this verse as Latter-day Saints do. After all, justification comes by God’s grace through faith. Period.

Here is my request to Mr. Oaks and other Latter-day Saints. If you insist on clinging to the name “Christian,” then please quit referring to those outside your church as “Christians.” It must be understood that the average layperson is unable to grasp the implications of this speech because it is difficult to read between the lines. Since Mormonism teaches that a person must be baptized with apostolic authority, must follow the commandments given by God, and must belong to a church with proper organization, it is clear that “other Christians” are not “just like” you. If nothing else, differentiate yourselves by using “Restored” or “Authoritative” in front of “Christian” to describe yourselves. Or, even better, why not just claim to be “Latter-day Saints” or “Mormons”? But please, quit patronizing Christians. Just call a spade a spade. Confusing the issue is just not fair. Or honest.

Posted in Baptism, Christianity, Priesthood, Truth, Honesty, Prayer, and Inquiry, Worthiness | Tagged , , , | 110 Comments